My Hot take on getting better start seperation…

BuckeyeJoe
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Edited Date/Time 2/17/2024 9:52am

On page 8 of the "New RMZ450!? oh boy" thread, mx_563 posted several links and while watching the youtube vid that he linked to on "how Suzuki stole the expansion chamber" I found the solution to better separation during the starts at SX races: Mandatory bump starts when the flag drops! I being very facetious here but wouldn't that be a hoot? Everyone keeps their holeshot devices and all the secret starting maps but physical strength and power plays a new role. I'll be eating my popcorn and awaiting all the downvotes haha!

https://youtu.be/1qccejmqbPg?si=7NO7YVlK7lqXmPoI&t=586

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2/17/2024 11:33am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2024 11:35am

we are not laughing with you,we are laughing at you . lmao-crying-laughing 0.gif?VersionId=v3FUpHeq

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BuckeyeJoe
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2/17/2024 11:37am
lostboy819 wrote:
we are not laughing with you,we are laughing at you . 

we are not laughing with you,we are laughing at you . lmao-crying-laughing 0.gif?VersionId=v3FUpHeq

It was a tongue in cheek post, laugh away, with me, at me but laugh! Lord knows we all need to laugh more!

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Shakybonez15
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2/17/2024 11:41am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2024 11:43am

Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead of just timing and throttle.. i mean theres still skill involved.. but bring back the technique 

and since they love explaining everything so much on the broadcast, this would be like 4 individual things they could explain in the night show lol

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2/17/2024 12:07pm
lostboy819 wrote:
we are not laughing with you,we are laughing at you . 

we are not laughing with you,we are laughing at you . lmao-crying-laughing 0.gif?VersionId=v3FUpHeq

BuckeyeJoe wrote:

It was a tongue in cheek post, laugh away, with me, at me but laugh! Lord knows we all need to laugh more!

Thx for the creative & funny post.  The yt vid was interesting. At 11.00 talking about the discovery of the boost port they callled it- case Reed induction and the exhaust pipe & how important it is.  Now double the intake pressure aka Double boost Port- DbP. And you hv 100,000 high voltage transformer hit and Rocket like propulsion. Consistently hit a dime in a corner 20 times. And the DBP will hit differently every time.  2 out of 20 it has a 50 rpm tight needle hit. That is easily the sharpest hardest hit of any bike ever modded. And I rode a hill climb mod cr500 insane pulling power but a round hit I call it then a massive surge of torque. I think the rarity has to do with the crank case pressure & the pressure sound wave in the custom pipe. A little setup on the hit . On the pipe,  off .1 sec then a blip .1 sec , then off , while setup in rut. Then clutch & snap it quick & hard. It will literally jump out of a corner air born . Like a Bradshaw,s yz250 but a lot quicker. 

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The Shop

Peddy
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2/17/2024 1:02pm
Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead...

Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead of just timing and throttle.. i mean theres still skill involved.. but bring back the technique 

and since they love explaining everything so much on the broadcast, this would be like 4 individual things they could explain in the night show lol

If someone more often than not gets the holeshot, doesn't that denote skill? Jett holeshotted in the outdoors more than he didn't. From what Matthes has found out was Jett was overrevving his bike so far in supercross (and there were two mud races). At 2 out of 3 dry ones Jett was in first. If everyone has the same equipment, meaning grate, holeshot device, etc., and 1 person is constantly the best starter, wouldn't that mean there is a very high level of skill involved?

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ILoveMoto
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2/17/2024 1:37pm

He who "preparates" better will still get the holeshot with or without technology and separate themselves 

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Zycki11
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2/17/2024 4:50pm
Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead...

Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead of just timing and throttle.. i mean theres still skill involved.. but bring back the technique 

and since they love explaining everything so much on the broadcast, this would be like 4 individual things they could explain in the night show lol

Peddy wrote:
If someone more often than not gets the holeshot, doesn't that denote skill? Jett holeshotted in the outdoors more than he didn't. From what Matthes has...

If someone more often than not gets the holeshot, doesn't that denote skill? Jett holeshotted in the outdoors more than he didn't. From what Matthes has found out was Jett was overrevving his bike so far in supercross (and there were two mud races). At 2 out of 3 dry ones Jett was in first. If everyone has the same equipment, meaning grate, holeshot device, etc., and 1 person is constantly the best starter, wouldn't that mean there is a very high level of skill involved?

Getting rid of the grates, holeshot devices, and starting blocks means further separation to hopefully prevent the Detroit 250 main start. 

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yak651
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2/17/2024 5:52pm
Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead...

Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead of just timing and throttle.. i mean theres still skill involved.. but bring back the technique 

and since they love explaining everything so much on the broadcast, this would be like 4 individual things they could explain in the night show lol

Peddy wrote:
If someone more often than not gets the holeshot, doesn't that denote skill? Jett holeshotted in the outdoors more than he didn't. From what Matthes has...

If someone more often than not gets the holeshot, doesn't that denote skill? Jett holeshotted in the outdoors more than he didn't. From what Matthes has found out was Jett was overrevving his bike so far in supercross (and there were two mud races). At 2 out of 3 dry ones Jett was in first. If everyone has the same equipment, meaning grate, holeshot device, etc., and 1 person is constantly the best starter, wouldn't that mean there is a very high level of skill involved?

Orrr his team has the best tech

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2/17/2024 6:10pm

Screw that, La Mans start, lets see who is the fastest runner...

 

 

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ILoveMoto
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2/17/2024 6:12pm
yak651 wrote:

Orrr his team has the best tech

I like how you did the "orrr" like Steve 🙂

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PFitzG38
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2/17/2024 6:43pm
ILoveMoto wrote:

He who "preparates" better will still get the holeshot with or without technology and separate themselves 

That’s outstandable logic

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Gravel
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2/17/2024 9:31pm

Concrete starting pads would do the trick. Nobody gets a good jump from concrete, it’d get a separation in the first 12 feet 

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dsmith
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2/17/2024 9:40pm

The BMX approach they did awhile ago worked good....they all started on a hill...

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2/17/2024 10:03pm

Feel the rhythm! Feel the rhyme! Get on up, it’s supercross time! 

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jemcee
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2/19/2024 3:36am Edited Date/Time 2/19/2024 3:39am
Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead...

Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead of just timing and throttle.. i mean theres still skill involved.. but bring back the technique 

and since they love explaining everything so much on the broadcast, this would be like 4 individual things they could explain in the night show lol

Peddy wrote:
If someone more often than not gets the holeshot, doesn't that denote skill? Jett holeshotted in the outdoors more than he didn't. From what Matthes has...

If someone more often than not gets the holeshot, doesn't that denote skill? Jett holeshotted in the outdoors more than he didn't. From what Matthes has found out was Jett was overrevving his bike so far in supercross (and there were two mud races). At 2 out of 3 dry ones Jett was in first. If everyone has the same equipment, meaning grate, holeshot device, etc., and 1 person is constantly the best starter, wouldn't that mean there is a very high level of skill involved?

Zycki11 wrote:

Getting rid of the grates, holeshot devices, and starting blocks means further separation to hopefully prevent the Detroit 250 main start. 

We've been having first turn pileups for years.. Before grates, holeshot devices and starting blocks

I found these two before I lost interest but figured my point is made.. From 2009 and 2010 (There may have been holeshot devices I can't remember when they came in)

Edit: for some reason the photos got jumbled top one is 2010 bottom '09

 

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2/19/2024 5:01am

Dock the holeshot winner 20 points that would make it interesting.

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2/19/2024 5:09am

Individually activated gates, a gate drops every 0.1 seconds, in reverse qualifying order.

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SteveUrchin
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2/19/2024 6:05am

Starting blocks are a joke! Those are for kids! 

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cmotodad
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2/19/2024 6:53am

When you have 22 alpha males, racing dirt bikes into a first turn, you will have crashes. When most have tools to take less amount of skill to get maximum traction off extremely grippy start gates and ecu's that monitor wheelspin, there will be more bikes closer together at the first turn. More bikes next to each other equates to more room for rider error with no space to adjust. My opinion only. 

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2/19/2024 7:16am

At the pro level, we should get rid of holeshot devices, starting grates and rpm light indicators. Starting blocks are okay because they just eliminate the disadvantage to shorter riders. I'd get rid of start mapping, too, if that can be policed.  

This would spread the field and definitely lower speeds into the first corner. 

Baseball players use aluminum bats growing up from little league to high school to college. They switch to wooden bats when they make pro. 

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FGR01
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2/19/2024 7:28am

Not sure why some of you think starting blocks are some kind of advantage.  They are for people who physically cannot reach the ground on modern super tall bikes.  OK, compromise,   no starting blocks allowed but anyone with an inseam over 30" is required to sit on a 10" thick foam block on their seat... then it will be even.

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ILoveMoto
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2/19/2024 7:39am
At the pro level, we should get rid of holeshot devices, starting grates and rpm light indicators. Starting blocks are okay because they just eliminate the...

At the pro level, we should get rid of holeshot devices, starting grates and rpm light indicators. Starting blocks are okay because they just eliminate the disadvantage to shorter riders. I'd get rid of start mapping, too, if that can be policed.  

This would spread the field and definitely lower speeds into the first corner. 

Baseball players use aluminum bats growing up from little league to high school to college. They switch to wooden bats when they make pro. 

Little league and college use metal bats because it keeps the cost down as they don't break not for a competitive advantage 

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2/19/2024 8:07am

Dirt only starting gates is a good place to start. It adds another element to if a rider can pack their own gate good enough or not. And the start gate rut choice is much more important.

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Zycki11
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2/19/2024 8:23am
Peddy wrote:
If someone more often than not gets the holeshot, doesn't that denote skill? Jett holeshotted in the outdoors more than he didn't. From what Matthes has...

If someone more often than not gets the holeshot, doesn't that denote skill? Jett holeshotted in the outdoors more than he didn't. From what Matthes has found out was Jett was overrevving his bike so far in supercross (and there were two mud races). At 2 out of 3 dry ones Jett was in first. If everyone has the same equipment, meaning grate, holeshot device, etc., and 1 person is constantly the best starter, wouldn't that mean there is a very high level of skill involved?

Zycki11 wrote:

Getting rid of the grates, holeshot devices, and starting blocks means further separation to hopefully prevent the Detroit 250 main start. 

jemcee wrote:
We've been having first turn pileups for years.. Before grates, holeshot devices and starting blocks I found these two before I lost interest but figured my...

We've been having first turn pileups for years.. Before grates, holeshot devices and starting blocks

I found these two before I lost interest but figured my point is made.. From 2009 and 2010 (There may have been holeshot devices I can't remember when they came in)

Edit: for some reason the photos got jumbled top one is 2010 bottom '09

 

11 (12)9 (5)

Naturally, it is a part of the sport. For me, I just want to see real technique back and eliminating the grates, holeshot devices, and the ECU systems that are showing RPMs will bring back authenticity a bit. I think ECUs are great and even having map switches so they can alter on the fly is great. But showing the RPM window on the front fender to me is lame sauce. 

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DonM
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2/19/2024 10:40am
FGR01 wrote:
Not sure why some of you think starting blocks are some kind of advantage.  They are for people who physically cannot reach the ground on modern...

Not sure why some of you think starting blocks are some kind of advantage.  They are for people who physically cannot reach the ground on modern super tall bikes.  OK, compromise,   no starting blocks allowed but anyone with an inseam over 30" is required to sit on a 10" thick foam block on their seat... then it will be even.

Tell that to Jasikonis....One of the tallest riders ever to race uses the tallest start blocks......

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2/19/2024 10:44am
Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead...

Personally the ama needs to step up and get rid of starting blocks and holeshot devices and the grates… bring back actual skill to starts instead of just timing and throttle.. i mean theres still skill involved.. but bring back the technique 

and since they love explaining everything so much on the broadcast, this would be like 4 individual things they could explain in the night show lol

I couldn't agree with you more. Gate pick would become even more important regarding the ruts up ahead of your gate and the gate prep itself is a lost art. 

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SteveUrchin
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2/19/2024 10:51am

Did Ricky Carmichael or bubba use starting blocks? 
 

the riders do it these days to get the foot closer to the peg and shift immediately. It’s not necessarily size when it comes to blocks anymore.  

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cmotodad
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2/20/2024 8:54am

In regard to aluminum bats, it is stated that the ball comes off an aluminum bat at a faster rate of speed. At the pro level, that has a ball coming back at players even faster and pros already optimize power with technique. Pro don't need more ways to be consistent. with grids, start maps or traction control. JMO

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FGR01
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2/20/2024 9:12am
Did Ricky Carmichael or bubba use starting blocks?    the riders do it these days to get the foot closer to the peg and shift immediately...

Did Ricky Carmichael or bubba use starting blocks? 
 

the riders do it these days to get the foot closer to the peg and shift immediately. It’s not necessarily size when it comes to blocks anymore.  

It's not an either-or.   It's both.   Yes, some people use them to try to create an advantage.  But some people literally have zero hope of touching the ground without them, especially with the steel grates.   In RC and Bubba's day the bikes were a little lower and dirt ruts also helped get short legs closer to the ground.    And rules allowed building up dirt mounds or using large rocks or whatever was "naturally available" or something along those lines.   Basically, if you created a "no starting blocks" rule nowadays with steel grates, some riders would be leaned over 20 degrees and balanced on one leg.

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2/20/2024 9:26am
dsmith wrote:

The BMX approach they did awhile ago worked good....they all started on a hill...

Have it be an uphill and you'll probably get some separation.

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