NEW RMZ450!? oh boy.

MXer391
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Altoona, PA US
2/14/2024 6:21am

i dont think you have to use the rmx head.

MXer391 wrote:
According to Elliot Cook you do. He was building one this time last year. You can find it on Instagram under Sharpmoto Works. I think he...

According to Elliot Cook you do. He was building one this time last year. You can find it on Instagram under Sharpmoto Works. I think he even started a thread in here somewhere but I don’t know what ever became of the build. 

I don’t think the whole e-start RMX drop into the RMZ is as plug and play as everyone says it is. That’s probably the whole reason Suzuki never did it for a production bike in 2018 and why HEP isn’t using the e-start cases. There’s too many limitations. There’s lots of rumors from some people in the know that Suzuki had built an e-start engine with finger followers and everything around 2017 when the newest bike came out but ultimately it never made production. The RMX engine was designed prior to 2010 so they weren’t bothering trying to adapt it to the 2018 frame. At least that’s my guess. 

I messaged him recently for an update on this project and he said it had to be abandoned... Once the engine was set up to have...

I messaged him recently for an update on this project and he said it had to be abandoned... Once the engine was set up to have capable compression and power to compete in MX & SX the electric start system from the RMX couldn't roll the engine over. Its a much more complicated swap then people make it out to be. 

Ahh. Thanks for the update. I had a feeling he ran into trouble. 
Suzuki could build a new RMZ anytime they want. They just don’t see the ROI on it and focus their efforts and development elsewhere. It’s that plain and simple. People need to get a grip and just accept it. It’s no different than Yamaha not building an all new YZ 250 in the grand scheme of things. 

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GrapeApe
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2/14/2024 6:40am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I'd liked to know how many bikes they are importing. Are they cutting it close to the homologation rule?  If they drop under 400, HEP and...

I'd liked to know how many bikes they are importing. Are they cutting it close to the homologation rule? 

If they drop under 400, HEP and BarX will be forced to find new manufacturers. 

HEP has a deal with Suzuki through 2025. After that who knows. 

web mx wrote:
You don't think that at least 40 states out of the 50 in the U.S. aren't selling 10 Rmz's each to hit that 400 number...

You don't think that at least 40 states out of the 50 in the U.S. aren't selling 10 Rmz's each to hit that 400 number ? Lol

Suzuki may not be selling alot of rmz's but I would be shocked if they weren't selling at least 3 times the homologation rule at the very low end. Think about it,that would be less than 30 bikes per state! 

There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump in '23 possibly due to Kenny but the numbers are still very low.

Johnny Ringo
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Tombstone, AZ US
2/14/2024 7:04am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I'd liked to know how many bikes they are importing. Are they cutting it close to the homologation rule?  If they drop under 400, HEP and...

I'd liked to know how many bikes they are importing. Are they cutting it close to the homologation rule? 

If they drop under 400, HEP and BarX will be forced to find new manufacturers. 

HEP has a deal with Suzuki through 2025. After that who knows. 

web mx wrote:
You don't think that at least 40 states out of the 50 in the U.S. aren't selling 10 Rmz's each to hit that 400 number...

You don't think that at least 40 states out of the 50 in the U.S. aren't selling 10 Rmz's each to hit that 400 number ? Lol

Suzuki may not be selling alot of rmz's but I would be shocked if they weren't selling at least 3 times the homologation rule at the very low end. Think about it,that would be less than 30 bikes per state! 

GrapeApe wrote:
There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump...

There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump in '23 possibly due to Kenny but the numbers are still very low.

Do you have to sell 400 units to meet homologation or just have them available?

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2/14/2024 7:06am
GrapeApe wrote:
There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump...

There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump in '23 possibly due to Kenny but the numbers are still very low.

Homologation has nothing to do with bike sales. The manufacturer just has to "produce" 400 units per model.

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The Shop

GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX US
2/14/2024 7:09am
web mx wrote:
You don't think that at least 40 states out of the 50 in the U.S. aren't selling 10 Rmz's each to hit that 400 number...

You don't think that at least 40 states out of the 50 in the U.S. aren't selling 10 Rmz's each to hit that 400 number ? Lol

Suzuki may not be selling alot of rmz's but I would be shocked if they weren't selling at least 3 times the homologation rule at the very low end. Think about it,that would be less than 30 bikes per state! 

GrapeApe wrote:
There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump...

There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump in '23 possibly due to Kenny but the numbers are still very low.

Do you have to sell 400 units to meet homologation or just have them available?

I think they just have to be available to sell to the public. The numbers I saw might have been units imported not units sold. Either way, the point is the same they don't sell many RMZs.

 

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GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX US
2/14/2024 7:11am
GrapeApe wrote:
There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump...

There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump in '23 possibly due to Kenny but the numbers are still very low.

HonDawg17 wrote:

Homologation has nothing to do with bike sales. The manufacturer just has to "produce" 400 units per model.

I was responding to web mx's post, not commenting on homologation in general

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Johnny Ringo
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Tombstone, AZ US
2/14/2024 7:22am
GrapeApe wrote:
There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump...

There is a guy here that has the numbers and he said in '22 they barely sold enough to meet homologation. There was a little bump in '23 possibly due to Kenny but the numbers are still very low.

Do you have to sell 400 units to meet homologation or just have them available?

GrapeApe wrote:
I think they just have to be available to sell to the public. The numbers I saw might have been units imported not units sold. Either...

I think they just have to be available to sell to the public. The numbers I saw might have been units imported not units sold. Either way, the point is the same they don't sell many RMZs.

 

I wonder how many RM85s they sell a year. 6?

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2/14/2024 7:52am
Spoonguy wrote:
With Beta, Ducati, Triumph, Stark, Kove and Lord knows who else entering the market, how long before Suzuki is just squeezed out? I would assume they...

With Beta, Ducati, Triumph, Stark, Kove and Lord knows who else entering the market, how long before Suzuki is just squeezed out? I would assume they are gone in 3 - 4 years easy.

Not necessarily. All of the newcomers except for Gas Gas are going for the top end of the market. The race to the top has created a nice little vacuum for a bike like the RMZ for people looking for a decent bike who don't want to buy a clapped out used bike but also don't want to spend $10K+ on a dirtbike. 

With how little Suzuki spends on R&D by comparison, and the low capital costs from stretching out the life of current molds and stampings, they could still be making money at near half the price and just sit there while the other brands compete for the high-end market. 

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2/14/2024 7:54am

How freaking lazy is this. I was just looking through Suzuki's website and check out the latest RM-85. 

They can't even bother to do BNG anymore. You don't even get graphics, period. I take back what I said, this isn't a strategy, they've just given up. 

 

2023 RM85 Yel Studio Hero 2500x1227.jpg?VersionId=snbs4DorJY6G8ixt

 

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Johnny Ringo
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2/14/2024 8:18am
TriRacer27 wrote:
How freaking lazy is this. I was just looking through Suzuki's website and check out the latest RM-85.  They can't even bother to do BNG anymore...

How freaking lazy is this. I was just looking through Suzuki's website and check out the latest RM-85. 

They can't even bother to do BNG anymore. You don't even get graphics, period. I take back what I said, this isn't a strategy, they've just given up. 

 

2023 RM85 Yel Studio Hero 2500x1227.jpg?VersionId=snbs4DorJY6G8ixt

 

In all fairness, at least they sell an 85 (looking at you, Honda)

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2/14/2024 9:07am
TriRacer27 wrote:
How freaking lazy is this. I was just looking through Suzuki's website and check out the latest RM-85.  They can't even bother to do BNG anymore...

How freaking lazy is this. I was just looking through Suzuki's website and check out the latest RM-85. 

They can't even bother to do BNG anymore. You don't even get graphics, period. I take back what I said, this isn't a strategy, they've just given up. 

 

2023 RM85 Yel Studio Hero 2500x1227.jpg?VersionId=snbs4DorJY6G8ixt

 

In all fairness, at least they sell an 85 (looking at you, Honda)

This right here.

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2/14/2024 9:19am

It’s a shame they couldn’t have done that with the 125 and 250 as well 

10
2/14/2024 3:04pm

not true on the rmx head, you can use rmz head

 

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Flatliner
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2/14/2024 3:22pm

Worst part is, that 85 pictured isn't far off from the 1995 version I had brand new.

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burn1986
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bossier city, LA US
2/14/2024 8:31pm
Bar X team have 8 riders this year ! Do you think a team wants 8 riders for ending their relationship with suzuki in 2025? Just...

Bar X team have 8 riders this year ! Do you think a team wants 8 riders for ending their relationship with suzuki in 2025?

Just listen to HEP LR podcast, the bike with electric start might comes this year.

So it's not 100% sure, but there is a good chance that something new is coming shortly!

There is not a chance something is coming. 

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2/15/2024 12:12am

I would say Suzuki sells at least 1,000 450 in America for 2024.  At least.  Ill tell you why.  Whats keeping Suzuki alive is their extensive dealer network that has been in place for years.  They have to carry the rmz’s, suzuki makes them take the bikes every year. So the dealers have to figure out a way to move these bikes, usually by discounting

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2/15/2024 2:26am

Again, someone tell me what's wrong with the current bike again?   It's the cheapest new 450 race bike you can buy, and it clearly can win.  What's wrong?  Complain about anything... trying to work it out.

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Spoonguy
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2/15/2024 4:35am
Joshracing wrote:
Again, someone tell me what's wrong with the current bike again?   It's the cheapest new 450 race bike you can buy, and it clearly can win. ...

Again, someone tell me what's wrong with the current bike again?   It's the cheapest new 450 race bike you can buy, and it clearly can win.  What's wrong?  Complain about anything... trying to work it out.

So then why is everyone wondering when a new one is coming? If Suzuki has a bike to sell and customers who will still buy it, who cares if it is a 20 - 30 year old design? I would never buy a Suzuki because other brand support the sport better and give back, without HEP or BarX Suzuki would be involved in nothing. No MotoGP, WSBK, Flat track, AMA SBK, GNCC, nothing, if every brand was like Suzuki there would be no pro racing of motorcycles of any type in the world. But if other people are willing to buy an old design from a company that does nothing to support the sport in return because they can save 2K, good for Suzuki's bottom line and investors. They dropped out of MotoGP, probably saved themselves 30million dollars right there a year that Honda, Yamaha, KTM, Ducati, even Aprillia spend. Maybe Yamaha is dumb to quit building YZ490s and supporting all these racing efforts. People reward Suzuki and send that message buying new RMZs.

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PB729
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Oak Creek, WI US
2/15/2024 4:50am

I bought a left over 23 RMZ450 for $6440.00 out the door. Had the suspension revalved for my weight and couldn't be happier. The bike is far more capable than 99% of riders out there. All the reviews of the "terrible shock" are (in my opinion) way off the mark, other than how you adjust them, it doesn't feel any different than anything else out there. The forks (after the revalve) are better than the KYB's I came off of. I had a 17 RMZ, then a 19 and 22 YZF...went back to the RMZ because I like them better. There is a bike for everyone. I had the same thoughts about RMZ's as everyone else...until a I rode one. 

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JAFO92
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2/15/2024 5:16am
PB729 wrote:
I bought a left over 23 RMZ450 for $6440.00 out the door. Had the suspension revalved for my weight and couldn't be happier. The bike is...

I bought a left over 23 RMZ450 for $6440.00 out the door. Had the suspension revalved for my weight and couldn't be happier. The bike is far more capable than 99% of riders out there. All the reviews of the "terrible shock" are (in my opinion) way off the mark, other than how you adjust them, it doesn't feel any different than anything else out there. The forks (after the revalve) are better than the KYB's I came off of. I had a 17 RMZ, then a 19 and 22 YZF...went back to the RMZ because I like them better. There is a bike for everyone. I had the same thoughts about RMZ's as everyone else...until a I rode one. 

Go away with that real-world Zook experience.  This is a hater thread for people who dont own a Suzuki.

Tongue

 

11
Falcon
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2/15/2024 8:36am

I think it's funny how many people on here think that because the Suzuki is basically a 2018 that it is completely unrideable. You weren't able to ride your KTM, Yamaha or Honda in 2018? Come on, guys, it's a 450cc 4-stroke platform with high-quality parts. There are very few people on here who could likely tell the difference blindfolded, much less exploit all that power. 

I guarantee you that I could make a 450SX, YZ450F or CRF450 perform worse than an RM-Z with just a few poor choices in setup. The other brands aren't magic, nor is each model year change automatically better.  

 

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englishman
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2/15/2024 9:03am

Old boy just won an SX on one . They don’t need to change anything. 

evomx244
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Morrow, OH US
2/15/2024 10:06am
PB729 wrote:
I bought a left over 23 RMZ450 for $6440.00 out the door. Had the suspension revalved for my weight and couldn't be happier. The bike is...

I bought a left over 23 RMZ450 for $6440.00 out the door. Had the suspension revalved for my weight and couldn't be happier. The bike is far more capable than 99% of riders out there. All the reviews of the "terrible shock" are (in my opinion) way off the mark, other than how you adjust them, it doesn't feel any different than anything else out there. The forks (after the revalve) are better than the KYB's I came off of. I had a 17 RMZ, then a 19 and 22 YZF...went back to the RMZ because I like them better. There is a bike for everyone. I had the same thoughts about RMZ's as everyone else...until a I rode one. 

I just bought a leftover 2022 for the same price as yours, good to know you have no issues with the rear shock. 6500 bucks OTD for a new 450 I just couldn't pass it up. 

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2/15/2024 10:12am
Flatliner wrote:

Worst part is, that 85 pictured isn't far off from the 1995 version I had brand new.

I used to love the way they sounded back then, just sounded so deep

AMetts
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2/15/2024 10:19am

Id love to get a 250 for the prices they are going for but really need a electric start for racing harescrambles and sprint enduros just way to easy to stall in the woods. 

 

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JAFO92
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2/15/2024 11:14am
AMetts wrote:
Id love to get a 250 for the prices they are going for but really need a electric start for racing harescrambles and sprint enduros just...

Id love to get a 250 for the prices they are going for but really need a electric start for racing harescrambles and sprint enduros just way to easy to stall in the woods. 

 

Stalling?   Wassat?

images 10.jpg?VersionId=Vu1UpqrW2uQ

 

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1
Richy
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UK GB
2/15/2024 11:21am

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Suzuki, they look gangster and they obviously work.

However... Electric start and some weight loss simply moves it inline with ALL the other manufacturers, people aren't asking for anything wild or over the top.

And comparing Kenny's probably $80k RMZ to a showroom bike isn't apples to apples either.

I like Suzuki's, I always say in these threads I do not dislike them at all, I am just disappointed they don't care about their loyal RM/RMZ guys.

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Spoonguy
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2/15/2024 11:44am

Nobody says Suzuki's can't win or are unridable. Nobody. Suzuki nut huggers are genuinely pissed people prefer other newer more recent designs from makers who support racing and don't mind paying for it. Some people don't mind a dated bike from a company that gives no shit about the future of the sport because they save some money, good for them, enjoy your Suzuki. They will probably quit making them in a couple years anyway. You can always ride a Kove, Ssr, or GPX then.

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2/15/2024 11:51am
AMetts wrote:
Id love to get a 250 for the prices they are going for but really need a electric start for racing harescrambles and sprint enduros just...

Id love to get a 250 for the prices they are going for but really need a electric start for racing harescrambles and sprint enduros just way to easy to stall in the woods. 

 

JAFO92 wrote:
Stalling?   Wassat?  

Stalling?   Wassat?

images 10.jpg?VersionId=Vu1UpqrW2uQ

 

Its the dead engine start races that has stopped me from grabbing one... Otherwise id have an RMZ 250 set up for the woods already. 

MXer391
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2/15/2024 12:31pm
Spoonguy wrote:
Nobody says Suzuki's can't win or are unridable. Nobody. Suzuki nut huggers are genuinely pissed people prefer other newer more recent designs from makers who support...

Nobody says Suzuki's can't win or are unridable. Nobody. Suzuki nut huggers are genuinely pissed people prefer other newer more recent designs from makers who support racing and don't mind paying for it. Some people don't mind a dated bike from a company that gives no shit about the future of the sport because they save some money, good for them, enjoy your Suzuki. They will probably quit making them in a couple years anyway. You can always ride a Kove, Ssr, or GPX then.

Saying Suzuki doesn't support the sport is a false narrative. I just checked and they are offering over $6 MILLION in contingency. Maybe some people like buying a $2000 cheaper bike and making money when they race. (Feel free to contact Barry Carsten or Gaylon Dickson). When I turn on SX on Saturday nights, I see the Suzuki logo pop up. I'm sure that isn't free. How bout the RMarmy boot camps? Boy that sure looks a manufacturer supporting the sport to me. 

 

I'm not trying to be the martyr for Suzuki here. But people sure spout off a lot of nonsense about Suzuki on this forum just because they do things differently than other manufacturers...

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