Get rid of starter whoops.

AussieParaMX
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Edited Date/Time 2/8/2024 5:36pm

Thats it.

I don't feel its whoop number that is the safety problem its whoop speed. Get ride of starter whoops and and you lower the entry speed, raising the difficulty level but also lowering the danger level. 

15 whoops out of a 180 corner with no starter whoop to me seems less dangerous than a 10 with a starter whoop so they can build mass speed to get on top of the whoops and crash at speed in whoop 7. 


Make whoops great again. 
 

Poll

What makes whoops dangerous.

Choices
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MXMattii
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2/8/2024 5:36pm Edited Date/Time 2/8/2024 5:38pm

You are on to something. But I dunno why but I personally like the French SX-like whoops also more then USA ones. 

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JazzyJJ
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2/8/2024 5:48pm

Have you ever ridden a proper set of whoops? Sounds like the answer is no

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blockhead17
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2/8/2024 5:54pm

I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them?

There will be crashes in the whoops no matter how many there are, look what happened to J-Mart last weekend.

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Flatliner
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2/8/2024 6:05pm

Not sure what the answer is.... but the past few years they've been smaller.

 

I don't think there's a "safe" whoop section even though I've always loved hitting them.

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The Shop

Mit12
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2/8/2024 6:38pm

I think that FELD is making the tracks easier/“safer” n an attempt to make the racing closer. Same thing was done when Mc started dominating. 

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yak651
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I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them? There will be...

I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them?

There will be crashes in the whoops no matter how many there are, look what happened to J-Mart last weekend.

Yeah only one I can think of is Forkner. 

2/8/2024 7:03pm
I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them? There will be...

I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them?

There will be crashes in the whoops no matter how many there are, look what happened to J-Mart last weekend.

They keep track of every crash that happens and what sections they happen in. 
 

Mike Muye talks about it in a post race interview with Pulp..

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-steve-matthes-show-on-racerx/…

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-MAVERICK-
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2/8/2024 7:06pm
I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them? There will be...

I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them?

There will be crashes in the whoops no matter how many there are, look what happened to J-Mart last weekend.

yak651 wrote:

Yeah only one I can think of is Forkner. 

Webb.

 

 

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Sully
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I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them? There will be...

I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them?

There will be crashes in the whoops no matter how many there are, look what happened to J-Mart last weekend.

yak651 wrote:

Yeah only one I can think of is Forkner. 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
Webb.    

Webb.

 

 

Didn't Webb get bit a couple of times? I remember the broken back, but for some reason I keep thinking there was another time as well.

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pops
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2/8/2024 7:28pm
I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them? There will be...

I’m still trying to figure out why they got rid of dragons backs I can’t remember that many people getting hurt on them?

There will be crashes in the whoops no matter how many there are, look what happened to J-Mart last weekend.

yak651 wrote:

Yeah only one I can think of is Forkner. 

Webb and AC got hurt on the same one a couple years back in Dallas.

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joshd
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2/8/2024 8:40pm

Barica in Nashville. 

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-MAVERICK-
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2/8/2024 9:15pm
Sully wrote:

Didn't Webb get bit a couple of times? I remember the broken back, but for some reason I keep thinking there was another time as well.

Could be, but that's the only one that came to mind. 

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peelout
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2/8/2024 10:04pm

who cares how they start up, if you call them hoops instead of whoops then fuck you 

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T-Fish
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2/8/2024 10:32pm

I think if the starter whoop is gone, they’ll be jumpers right from the start because there’s no way to really get on top of them. That’s the reason for the starter whoop, no? 

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blockhead17
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2/9/2024 2:24am
Mit12 wrote:

I think that FELD is making the tracks easier/“safer” n an attempt to make the racing closer. Same thing was done when Mc started dominating. 

Seperation is what makes the races interesting.. that’s what was so cool about someone like Stew ripping by people..

Less seperation = Startcross

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Gordon Liddy
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2/9/2024 3:58am

I seem to remember  JS wadding it up big time over a dragons  back many years ago.  

2/9/2024 6:53am

Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone won't try to jump 5 in and wad up?

Whoops were invented to hit every one of them, or blitz the tops. They've totally ruined whoops over the last 10+ years. They should only be blitz-able whoops, and NOT jumpers. We have rhythm sections for jumping. Whoops are to separate the men from the boys. If you get rid of separation you make the race only about the holeshot, which isn't racing. All these guys do the same jumps, but not all of them can blitz whoops the same speed. Same with the rhythm sections, some guys can hit them just a half a bike length faster than the next guy, but that's not enough separation.

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Mit12
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2/9/2024 9:43am
Mit12 wrote:

I think that FELD is making the tracks easier/“safer” n an attempt to make the racing closer. Same thing was done when Mc started dominating. 

Seperation is what makes the races interesting.. that’s what was so cool about someone like Stew ripping by people..

Less seperation = Startcross

You and I are a select few. McGrath’s dominance is what put SX on the map. The majority want races that look like the top 10 could win or want to see crashes.

2/9/2024 10:02am
Rosso391 wrote:
Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone...

Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone won't try to jump 5 in and wad up?

Whoops were invented to hit every one of them, or blitz the tops. They've totally ruined whoops over the last 10+ years. They should only be blitz-able whoops, and NOT jumpers. We have rhythm sections for jumping. Whoops are to separate the men from the boys. If you get rid of separation you make the race only about the holeshot, which isn't racing. All these guys do the same jumps, but not all of them can blitz whoops the same speed. Same with the rhythm sections, some guys can hit them just a half a bike length faster than the next guy, but that's not enough separation.

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not sure how a mound of dirt has a sexual orientation but if thats what your brain does then go off. 

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AussieParaMX
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2/9/2024 11:27pm
Rosso391 wrote:
Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone...

Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone won't try to jump 5 in and wad up?

Whoops were invented to hit every one of them, or blitz the tops. They've totally ruined whoops over the last 10+ years. They should only be blitz-able whoops, and NOT jumpers. We have rhythm sections for jumping. Whoops are to separate the men from the boys. If you get rid of separation you make the race only about the holeshot, which isn't racing. All these guys do the same jumps, but not all of them can blitz whoops the same speed. Same with the rhythm sections, some guys can hit them just a half a bike length faster than the next guy, but that's not enough separation.

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not...

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not sure how a mound of dirt has a sexual orientation but if thats what your brain does then go off. 

Exactly, whoops were taller steeper and closer together with no starter whoop.  
 

The close steepness makes jumping so so so much slower than skimming.  
 

and 

 

in order to skim your entry speed has to slow and speed is built through the whoops which means usually the crashes are at slow speed (if messed up early) or by the end of the whoops at speed (if the mistake is later)

 

with wider, more separated loader whoops and starter whoops, you enter with massive speed AND jumping is made easier - hence it becomes a reasonable choice for the riders while also being more dangerous and higher speed for those that sack up.  More dangerous AND more jumping.  
 

make whoops great again. 
 

big, steep, slow the entry speed, get rid of starter whoops and they be safer and more impressive with a bigger separation factor. 

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2/10/2024 1:21am Edited Date/Time 2/10/2024 1:24am
Thats it. I don't feel its whoop number that is the safety problem its whoop speed. Get ride of starter whoops and and you lower the...

Thats it.

I don't feel its whoop number that is the safety problem its whoop speed. Get ride of starter whoops and and you lower the entry speed, raising the difficulty level but also lowering the danger level. 

15 whoops out of a 180 corner with no starter whoop to me seems less dangerous than a 10 with a starter whoop so they can build mass speed to get on top of the whoops and crash at speed in whoop 7. 


Make whoops great again. 
 

You forgot Gary (telephone pole) Bailey!

CPR
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2/10/2024 2:06am
Rosso391 wrote:
Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone...

Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone won't try to jump 5 in and wad up?

Whoops were invented to hit every one of them, or blitz the tops. They've totally ruined whoops over the last 10+ years. They should only be blitz-able whoops, and NOT jumpers. We have rhythm sections for jumping. Whoops are to separate the men from the boys. If you get rid of separation you make the race only about the holeshot, which isn't racing. All these guys do the same jumps, but not all of them can blitz whoops the same speed. Same with the rhythm sections, some guys can hit them just a half a bike length faster than the next guy, but that's not enough separation.

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not...

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not sure how a mound of dirt has a sexual orientation but if thats what your brain does then go off. 

Exactly, whoops were taller steeper and closer together with no starter whoop.     The close steepness makes jumping so so so much slower than skimming...

Exactly, whoops were taller steeper and closer together with no starter whoop.  
 

The close steepness makes jumping so so so much slower than skimming.  
 

and 

 

in order to skim your entry speed has to slow and speed is built through the whoops which means usually the crashes are at slow speed (if messed up early) or by the end of the whoops at speed (if the mistake is later)

 

with wider, more separated loader whoops and starter whoops, you enter with massive speed AND jumping is made easier - hence it becomes a reasonable choice for the riders while also being more dangerous and higher speed for those that sack up.  More dangerous AND more jumping.  
 

make whoops great again. 
 

big, steep, slow the entry speed, get rid of starter whoops and they be safer and more impressive with a bigger separation factor. 

Thanks, I was reading the comments and starting to question myself, because I was thinking that starter whoops weren’t always a thing and that before starter whoops they still weren’t jumpers very often.

Starter whoops have made it easier for guys who aren’t deadly in the whoops, to be able to skim. In other words, yet another thing that decreases the separation. It’s also the way they’re built now, that they turn into jumpers more readily.

AussieParaMX
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2/10/2024 3:40pm
Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not...

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not sure how a mound of dirt has a sexual orientation but if thats what your brain does then go off. 

Exactly, whoops were taller steeper and closer together with no starter whoop.     The close steepness makes jumping so so so much slower than skimming...

Exactly, whoops were taller steeper and closer together with no starter whoop.  
 

The close steepness makes jumping so so so much slower than skimming.  
 

and 

 

in order to skim your entry speed has to slow and speed is built through the whoops which means usually the crashes are at slow speed (if messed up early) or by the end of the whoops at speed (if the mistake is later)

 

with wider, more separated loader whoops and starter whoops, you enter with massive speed AND jumping is made easier - hence it becomes a reasonable choice for the riders while also being more dangerous and higher speed for those that sack up.  More dangerous AND more jumping.  
 

make whoops great again. 
 

big, steep, slow the entry speed, get rid of starter whoops and they be safer and more impressive with a bigger separation factor. 

CPR wrote:
Thanks, I was reading the comments and starting to question myself, because I was thinking that starter whoops weren’t always a thing and that before starter...

Thanks, I was reading the comments and starting to question myself, because I was thinking that starter whoops weren’t always a thing and that before starter whoops they still weren’t jumpers very often.

Starter whoops have made it easier for guys who aren’t deadly in the whoops, to be able to skim. In other words, yet another thing that decreases the separation. It’s also the way they’re built now, that they turn into jumpers more readily.

Watching qualifying today the whoops are embarrassing. Maybe it’s the high angle but they looks like whoops at a fair ground race in size and spacing but with a starter whoop and perfectly formed. They way they come off the speed check and power into the whoops and warp speed and basically use the second half of the whoops as braking bumps.  
 

Makes whoops great (and safe) again.

 

2
bigk218
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2/10/2024 5:55pm

I find it offensive if they make tracks that make the elite look more elite 

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AussieParaMX
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2/10/2024 6:06pm
bigk218 wrote:

I find it offensive if they make tracks that make the elite look more elite 

Haha it doesn’t though.

When the merely elite do exactly what the elit of the elite do the then it drags the eye test of the elite of the elite down to the level of the merely elite.  
 

In short it only benefits someone like Vince Friese - he’s elite and does everything the elite of the elite do including skimming whoops with trainer wheels (starter whoops).   

AussieParaMX
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2/10/2024 7:20pm
Watching qualifying today the whoops are embarrassing. Maybe it’s the high angle but they looks like whoops at a fair ground race in size and spacing...

Watching qualifying today the whoops are embarrassing. Maybe it’s the high angle but they looks like whoops at a fair ground race in size and spacing but with a starter whoop and perfectly formed. They way they come off the speed check and power into the whoops and warp speed and basically use the second half of the whoops as braking bumps.  
 

Makes whoops great (and safe) again.

 

Exhibit A - John Short in the LCQ. 
 

there’s no reason for him to have that much speed except for the starter whoop.

AussieParaMX
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2/11/2024 2:17pm

RJ HAMPSHIRE ‘I wish the whoops were bigger and not just pin it and pray’

 

MXMattii
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2/12/2024 11:00am

Is this what we need?

 

 

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2/12/2024 12:00pm
Rosso391 wrote:
Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone...

Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone won't try to jump 5 in and wad up?

Whoops were invented to hit every one of them, or blitz the tops. They've totally ruined whoops over the last 10+ years. They should only be blitz-able whoops, and NOT jumpers. We have rhythm sections for jumping. Whoops are to separate the men from the boys. If you get rid of separation you make the race only about the holeshot, which isn't racing. All these guys do the same jumps, but not all of them can blitz whoops the same speed. Same with the rhythm sections, some guys can hit them just a half a bike length faster than the next guy, but that's not enough separation.

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not...

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not sure how a mound of dirt has a sexual orientation but if thats what your brain does then go off. 

Show me a set of whoops in AMA Supercross in the last 27 almost 30 years that DOESN'T have a starter whoop. I'll wait. Maybe back in 1996. Maybe. Since 1998 for sure the tracks had a more typical layout and whoops.

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Sandusky26
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2/12/2024 12:11pm
Rosso391 wrote:
Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone...

Getting rid of the starter whoop must be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then you make them jumpers ONLY, very gay. You don't think someone won't try to jump 5 in and wad up?

Whoops were invented to hit every one of them, or blitz the tops. They've totally ruined whoops over the last 10+ years. They should only be blitz-able whoops, and NOT jumpers. We have rhythm sections for jumping. Whoops are to separate the men from the boys. If you get rid of separation you make the race only about the holeshot, which isn't racing. All these guys do the same jumps, but not all of them can blitz whoops the same speed. Same with the rhythm sections, some guys can hit them just a half a bike length faster than the next guy, but that's not enough separation.

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not...

Starter whoop was not always a thing. Whoops existed many years without it and some off-season races don't have starter whoop either. Still skimable. Also not sure how a mound of dirt has a sexual orientation but if thats what your brain does then go off. 

Rosso391 wrote:
Show me a set of whoops in AMA Supercross in the last 27 almost 30 years that DOESN'T have a starter whoop. I'll wait. Maybe back...

Show me a set of whoops in AMA Supercross in the last 27 almost 30 years that DOESN'T have a starter whoop. I'll wait. Maybe back in 1996. Maybe. Since 1998 for sure the tracks had a more typical layout and whoops.

Lots a tracks in the 05,06, and 07 had no starter whoops, remember guys like Reed and DV12 would wheelie, or unload the suspension before hitting the whoops.

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