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I’m just waiting on someone to release a 125/200 sized electric enduro bike that I can commute on and then hit our local neighborhood trail network where sound is a real issue for us.
I have an XT350 for this now, and my riding friends have WR450 and EXCs, Honda 250L, etc. we all prefer to ride to the trails as trailering isn’t a good option.
The lack of noise on a dual sport of this nature, and the gas savings over my pickup for a quick commute trip to work ( 10 miles ) will make an electric dual sport the perfect bike.
I’m checking reviews daily but haven’t seen anything that seems to fit this bill yet - full sized enduro that can handle gnarly single track ( rocks, roots, deep mud, sand, rollers ) and still get me to work and run on the highway for a short bit. 125/200 2stroke level epower.
This type of bike seems the sweet spot and that it would open up an amazing level of local riding all across the country. Ride to trails, work or do moto in a friend’s field.
The surron ultra bee is close to what you are describing. Supposedly those have a VIN number and can be plated in some states with some effort.
Think I remember that too. It's not an awesome angle. I can see why the people excited about building a bike would feel that way, but in the context of seeking investment funds, it's kind of like saying, "ehhhh, we don't want to spend a bunch of time building up a sustainable business making boring stuff that would then provide us with the resources to develop this cool new thing on our own, because that takes too long and we just want to build this cool new thing right now and want you to pay for it while we maintain a controlling interest in what you've paid for and then maybe we'll figure out that whole profit thing later on". There's this modern trend of reverse building a business trying to start off as something really big, just add water(or investors). The problem is that reverse building a business usually ends up the same way that a successful business normally starts, with a bunch of shit in someone's garage.
Agree that it will be fun(interesting) to watch what happens, specially with what comes next. Fun assuming success of course, not so so fun things don't go well. Like I said, I love electric. I have a bunch of 18650's harvested from a wrecked Tesla and some big 230ah LifePo4 cells in my office here for various projects, homemade battery generators for power outages, etc. Anyway, I imagine 2024 will be nothing but sales and support for the Varg, presumably with a small crew working on some things in the background. I expect we'll have some idea of what's next by the end of 2025, at least something conceptual.
Someone mentioned the Surron earlier and the Light Bee/X is great because it's halfway'ish between a mountain bike and a dirt bike, so they appeal to a much wider audience. I'd like to see a higher quality Light Bee competitor for under $6k. As a heavier rider, the Chinesium is what keeps me away from the $4k Light Bee, otherwise a crossover is very interesting. I don't think this market is very appealing to Stark though.
Agree with L2S that they'd have no interest in high-volume/low-margin anything, at least not on the manufacturing side. Perhaps they're able to generate some revenue on the engineering side through Eicher.
I think the closest thing you’re thinking of is the ktm freeride
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I had a KTM Freeride many years ago, I sold it with 0% loss after 6months and 2years later the Freeride was more than 20% up from what I paid for it...
Will be interesting to see how the value of Vargs hold.
At last, a Varg thread has turned into a productive and fascinating conversation about what the future might look like. I must admit, I'm not smart like you guys are, I know very little about batteries and how they work, but I can sometimes look beyond my limitations and "see the forest for the tress" - so there's that.
Here's what I see:
In the past, the idea of there being a legitimate bike that bridged the gap between a mountain bike and a motocross bike was a ludicrous notion. Totally nonsensical. Motocross bike powerplants (ICE) were incompatible with anything but full-on motocross bikes. Suddenly, that's not true anymore. As such, that gap actually can and almost certainly will be bridged now because of the endless plasticity of electric battery sizes and outputs, and with that fact could come a revolution within the sport that is long overdue. New tracks could sprout up, tracks that center on racecraft and corner speed and technical abilities rather than centering on 100-foot quads with kickers on their lips. Perhaps these new tracks will be created where existing tracks already are, perhaps they'll be in entirely new venues; perhaps both. Time will tell, of course, but the number of tracks, as well as the number of manufacturers and the variety of products available - could be unprecedented. It is my belief that, were all this to happen, respect for the guys who can ride a real-deal motocross bike on a real-deal motocross track would increase dramatically - but those guys would also become much more rare - because we'd stop forcing everyone who loves the sport to try to become a pro at it. And that is what we truly need for the sport to have a future that allows it to grow instead of wither and die.
There was a track up here near me I used to frequent. It's closed now for the usual reason. I rode it in my mind the other day, and I realized it had almost three times as many jumps as corners. That's just kooky. I think the future will now have the ability to "fix" that problem, and with that 'fix,' the older guys on here won't be constantly creating new threads about why they felt they had to quit riding and/or how they're doing their best to deal with the lingering effects of a multitude of old racing injuries.
What a great future it could be. Bring it on.
Cool, looks like significant batches are finally arriving in the US
Obviously, even media guys lost patience...
https://www.swapmotolive.com/unboxing-and-assembling-our-stark-future-v…
VIN on a US Varg will give insight about what production numbers were a couple of months back (provided it has freshly arrived on US soil). Probably between 1000 and 1800 if it was made in November.
I'm curious of VIN numbers for European Vargs, should be more recent info.
How do you tell from the VIN what the production number is?
From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number
"The 10th to 17th positions are used as the vehicle identifier section or VIS. This is used by the manufacturer to identify the individual vehicle in question. This may include information on options installed or engine and transmission choices, but often is a simple sequential number."
"In the United States and China, the 12th to 17th digits are the vehicle's serial or production number. This is unique to each vehicle, and every manufacturer uses its own sequence."
Do not post the entire VIN, first couple digits (outside of 0s) of the sequence starting at 10th (or possibly 12th) digit should be enough.
Yup, he said he got tired of waiting and wanted a bike so bad that he and a buddy hunted one down. And that this is the first bike that he has liked enough to buy one of his own since he worked at Cycle News. He said that he has been looking forward to having one since the intro. It is only an unboxing video. The wheel bearings even had enough grease in it from the factory. Unlike every other bike on the planet.
It's better that he went and got one this way. Now he has just another Varg. Not one prepared specially for a media guy. So it should be a much more real world like test .
Looks like mine is almost number 3000. That’s cool.
Cool, thanks 👍
That would probably make it part of December production batch, not too bad to get it in the US in early February. Indeed that's in line with the couple of months timeframe announced on Stark's website for new US orders.
Roughly 3,000 bikes delivered out of 18,000 pre-orders, and their current lead time is only 2 months.
Either they've ramped up to Henry Ford like production, or A LOT of people have bailed on their orders.
They have hit Australia with stocks...........$20K
STARK FUTURE VARG 80 HP 18" 2023 - Peter Stevens Motorcycles
Rode my brothers Suron that he uses for hunting which can be road registered, very interesting prospect as well.
Pit Row
He got the bike in 3 days after he ordered it.
It's a bit of both really.
In 6 months they did ramp up to 10 000 bikes annual capacity (not sure if they are still increasing ?) which is quite a feat.
I believe with about 3 000 orders delivered globally in 2023, most pre-orders in Europe have been delivered, though the US is obviously their larger market. Then your guess is as good as mine, there may be a couple thousands more outstanding pre orders, mainly in the US. That would be anywhere between 15-25% conversion rate from $100 pre orders to $14 000 full orders.
Now that they fork out 800-1000 bikes a month, large shipments are finally reaching US and Australian shores, situation will gradually become like in Europe where you can just grab one that's in stock, like vdrsnk04 just did (was it at a dealer in IL?), or order one to your specs and wait a couple of months (compared to one month in Europe).
Some US dealers have dozens of bikes in stock so you can get one directly from them, or even have them ship it to you if your local dealer does not have any stock. Or if there are still regulatory issues in your state, as there were 10 states affected by this in early January, don't know what the current situation is in CA, CO, IN, LA, MD, NV, NM, NC, OH and PA?
You still have a math problem when it comes to production numbers. I will agree 20% conversion sucks ass even if the E-tards would have sodomized me for suggesting less than 80%. They did not deliver 3000 pre-orders. It seems they produced 3000 in 6 months and how many of those are sitting in dealerships we don’t know. Certainly not 3000 retail customers. Quite a stretch to get to 10K annually.
I bought mine from Lithium Powersports. They have about every combination of options available to pick from and they handled shipping it to me from FL to IL.
It also seems odd to me that people with pre-orders are still waiting for their order. Can’t they just go to a dealer and buy one like I chose to do and then cancel their pre order or is that not how it’ll work?
That's probably what is happening, the people who can't wait have gone to a dealer that has stock, and forgot about the $100 deposit.
I think that's exactly the Varg situation in the US, some dealers are well supplied with bikes available for walk-in purchase while unfortunately others are still sitting on existing orders. That's like waiting for the latest game console, right now demand is still greater than supply, but more batches are coming.
Swapmotolive did the same, sourcing a Varg from out of state instead of waiting for their order.
+$1000 and dealer fees.
Go looking for pictures of Royal Enfield / Eicher Prototype ADV bike .
I've only got them in formats that I can't put up here. Well, I'll try a dodgy on them ( I can near guarantee I stuff it up) :
Well, it looks like my effort didn't work - the pics show on my working post, but Not when put up.
I'm a Analogue Bear in a Digital World, to modify / bowdlerize a certain Writers song title......
They had it at the last EICMA show, and at the 452 Himalayan Sherpa release / magazine intro 'junkets'.
Eicher Don't f**k around.
No idea of it's having any Stark input to it, but Eicher investing quite a few million in Stark, should give a few 'knockers' a bit of a clue as to how seriously Eicher view the potential of E Bikes - as I wrote, Eicher Do Not F**k Around.
Well, I very much hope they won't do a 'Harley to Alta' bit of bastardry.........
New Himalayan is a huge step up from anything RE has produced in the past with a fuel injected liquid cooled 450.
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-reviews/royal-enfield-himalayan-f…
They could be looking at developing battery and motor assembly processes thru Stark to later be implemented in India over the next decade.
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