HEP and Roczen Factory Ducati 25??

Brad460
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1/20/2024 8:31am Edited Date/Time 1/20/2024 8:52am
cbunt44 wrote:

I also heard a rumour (don't quote me on this) That Ducati have done a deal with Honda to use there chassis with a Ducati motor?

mxnick wrote:

No

Richy wrote:
It seems unlikely to me too, that would be a wild collab with how pitted against each other the two companies, and parent companies, are... But...

It seems unlikely to me too, that would be a wild collab with how pitted against each other the two companies, and parent companies, are... But it would explain all the Honda looking frame / plastics pics.

Again I don't think it will be the case, it just doesn't make sense looking in from the outside, but right now the people who actually know are very limited.

Japanese companies seem most open to working with other companies if financially beneficial- regardless if they are competitors or not. Yamaha has done this and is currently doing this…Suz/Kawi past..

While Honda Ducati working together likely not the case, if they are it wouldn’t be at all shocking/surprising ..

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DonM
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1/20/2024 8:32am
nskerb wrote:
Seems possible. Likely? No clue.    I think on the moto60 Matthes show they said Ducati has approached a few teams asking if they could take...

Seems possible. Likely? No clue. 
 

I think on the moto60 Matthes show they said Ducati has approached a few teams asking if they could take them over. HEP seems like they’ve done a really good job with relatively limited resources and a relatively old bike. The people on that team are making good things happen. If they had a better bike and a lot more money I could see it being a sweet deal for both HEP and Ducati. I wonder though if Ducati would take over and kind of try to yank around the staff at HEP the wrong way. Idk lots of potential upside but also downside. Who knows.

 

Also it seems like there are rumors of HEP and club shopping around thinking about switching bikes like every year or so.

Club also just signed a new two year deal with Yamaha.....

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OwenJakes
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1/20/2024 8:34am
Silas444 wrote:
If the video is accurate in stating that the bike has Nissin brakes, then something hinky is definitely going on. There's no way the new Ducati...

If the video is accurate in stating that the bike has Nissin brakes, then something hinky is definitely going on. There's no way the new Ducati motocross bike should be running anything but Brembo brakes. It would be like Michael Jordan wearing Adidas.

It's either clever subterfuge, or we're all about to find out we got brand new socks for Christmas. In other words - a major disappointment.

I like nissin feel over brembo. Where does this idea come from that Nissin is just absolutely inferior?

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Tumic
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1/20/2024 8:41am
Gravel wrote:
Beta is a good example of how hard it is to develop a bike for pro SX/MX. Pretty plastic and great colors don’t finish/win races. Every...

Beta is a good example of how hard it is to develop a bike for pro SX/MX. Pretty plastic and great colors don’t finish/win races. Every time one of the big5 come out with a new design bike it takes an about a half season to get it right, and that’s with established teams working it. I love watching the process play out, it’d be really cool if there was more transparency in the progression though. 
 

Triumph, Beta, Ducati all showing up in moto is awesome! 

And Beta is a brand that has built Enduro bikes for years, got a WEC team, mxgp  team, etc. They are not new to offroad racing but yet they struggle now in US.

Triumph and Ducati has nothing to stand on before this. They are building the bikes as we speak, mean while Beta has had bikes for years.

I think that Cairoli can get them on a good path with that bike.

remember when BMW tried to build a enduro bike? Or when aprilia had their V-twin?.

I can see a potential problem when a street brand from Italy are gonna build a Mx bike that they over complicate it like aprilia did, but as i said. Tony should be able to get them to focus on the right things. Like when Everts joined ktm and told them to get a linkage on the bikes.

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The Shop

dcg141
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1/20/2024 9:15am

Pretty sure both brands will do some reverse engineering from established brands. If they are smart they will. Not get to far out of proven formula's. Make it the same but yours sort of thing.

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Flattrack88
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1/20/2024 10:42am
Gravel wrote:
Does HEP have the resources to develop a completely new bike? The best thing about the Suzuki is everything has been figured out by a bunch...

Does HEP have the resources to develop a completely new bike? The best thing about the Suzuki is everything has been figured out by a bunch of teams, there’s no R&D surprises.

Exactly.  I don't think they're clamoring to be the next Beta.  

personally I love that beta has made this pivot to bull blown MX/SX. I'm not sure what the next Beta infers. We haven't even seen a...

personally I love that beta has made this pivot to bull blown MX/SX. I'm not sure what the next Beta infers. We haven't even seen a test review yet and the bikes look amazing. 

I agree, it's great that Beta is stepping in to this arena.  Some of the other posters summed up what I meant.  It would be tough for the team and sponsors to walk away from a race winning bike for the hope that being the next 'factory" team will be significantly better.  I don't think any of the 3 new teams will step in and be instantly great.   All will have potential however.  

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1/20/2024 12:41pm
Silas444 wrote:
If the video is accurate in stating that the bike has Nissin brakes, then something hinky is definitely going on. There's no way the new Ducati...

If the video is accurate in stating that the bike has Nissin brakes, then something hinky is definitely going on. There's no way the new Ducati motocross bike should be running anything but Brembo brakes. It would be like Michael Jordan wearing Adidas.

It's either clever subterfuge, or we're all about to find out we got brand new socks for Christmas. In other words - a major disappointment.

OwenJakes wrote:

I like nissin feel over brembo. Where does this idea come from that Nissin is just absolutely inferior?

Because people have seen Brembo on Moto GP & WSB for donkeys years, and then see them on the Factory KTM bikes & think that when they buy an Austrian bike they're getting the same brake.They're not. 

OEM Nissin is not inferior to OEM Brembo. I too prefer the feel of the Nissin.

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Silas444
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1/20/2024 12:49pm
OwenJakes wrote:

I like nissin feel over brembo. Where does this idea come from that Nissin is just absolutely inferior?

Who said anything about them being inferior? I was only stating that using Japanese parts would go against their usual tendency in a major way. Some companies are just very Italian. Like Ferrari and Alfa Romeo, for example. Ducati could have hired a lot of guys to test and become the spokesman for their bike, but they hired Cairoli. Why? He's a moto-god, yes, but he's also very proudly Italian.

Brembo's an Italian company, so if the bike in the video had Brembos on it, well - it figures. And if it doesn't? 

Just seems hinky. Is all.

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Richy
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1/20/2024 12:57pm Edited Date/Time 1/20/2024 1:00pm
Motofinne wrote:
I would be shocked if that would be the case. I just can't see that being the case. It would make absolutely zero sense in any...

I would be shocked if that would be the case. I just can't see that being the case. It would make absolutely zero sense in any way and it would be completely against everything Ducati stands for.

 

soggy wrote:
Triumph clearly bought/leased tooling from ktm. It’s not such a crazy idea. Honda will be moving to a new chassis next year. Selling the old one...

Triumph clearly bought/leased tooling from ktm. It’s not such a crazy idea. Honda will be moving to a new chassis next year. Selling the old one is a new revenue stream. 

Motofinne wrote:
Ducati is completely different. When it comes to racing engineering they do everything themselves to the very highest spec possible. It would be a total deviation...

Ducati is completely different. When it comes to racing engineering they do everything themselves to the very highest spec possible.

It would be a total deviation from their core philosophy if they release their bike based on a generation old Honda, a company that they are competing against.

I just can't see Ducati doing something like that. If they prove me wrong, i'll be incredibly surprised.

We are in agreement, it would seem insane on the face of it and it feels fundamentally incompatible with Ducati's core ideals... But... Who can say? Money may be king, as Soggy says, especially for a first gen bike.

I wonder if they've simply initially tested with Honda plastics on their bike or even with their swanky new Desmo engine in a full Honda chassis to get more hours on it, in lieu of their finished product. Someone (from a test track, provisional team, supplier/related company, whatever) may have seen it, gotten the wrong idea and this rumour has gotten going? Nothing spreads faster than misinformation.

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web mx
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1/20/2024 1:20pm

Ducati isn't racing US until 2026.

2024 - Italian mx nationals.

2025 - MXGP.

2026 - US ama SX/MX.

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Magoofan
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1/20/2024 1:28pm
brimx153 wrote:

Really hope Ken stays hep suzuki one more year . He is riding to well ATM.   Let he go ducati as a retirement,  

Yep.   Crazy to switch from a bike that is clearly working (much to the chagrin of all the Suzuki haters), to a brand new untested bike/manufacturer.   

 

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Spoonguy
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1/20/2024 1:30pm

Hope so

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Motofinne
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1/22/2024 3:30am
You guys are all crazy if you’re seriously considering the possibility of a Honda/Ducati chassis collab.  Honda’s handling ranks them in the bottom half of every...

You guys are all crazy if you’re seriously considering the possibility of a Honda/Ducati chassis collab.  Honda’s handling ranks them in the bottom half of every 450 shootout for the past several years.  At the pinnacle of 2 wheel racing (MotoGP), Ducati has absolutely dominated and reduced the once all-powerful Repsol Honda team to a cring worthy running joke so pathetic that Marc Marquez reportedly bought his way out of his massive Honda contract to ride a year old Ducati for free.  For a couple years now, Ducati has dominated every form of racing they participate in.  I’m quite confident that Ducati is plenty capable of developing their own dirt bike chassis.

Well we got our very expected answer. The bike looks very nice!

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WTaylor7
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1/22/2024 10:53am

HEP upped their deal with Suzuki again recently so this is a no go.

-MAVERICK-
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1/22/2024 10:57am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2024 9:06am
WTaylor7 wrote:

HEP upped their deal with Suzuki again recently so this is a no go.

HEP is with Suzuki through 2025 and Ducati is entering the US in 2026. 

Edit:

I'm not saying they're switching manufacturers. I'm just saying the timeline adds up. I do believe they had talks as well. 

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CEMX182
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1/22/2024 11:12am
Tumic wrote:
And Beta is a brand that has built Enduro bikes for years, got a WEC team, mxgp  team, etc. They are not new to offroad racing...

And Beta is a brand that has built Enduro bikes for years, got a WEC team, mxgp  team, etc. They are not new to offroad racing but yet they struggle now in US.

Triumph and Ducati has nothing to stand on before this. They are building the bikes as we speak, mean while Beta has had bikes for years.

I think that Cairoli can get them on a good path with that bike.

remember when BMW tried to build a enduro bike? Or when aprilia had their V-twin?.

I can see a potential problem when a street brand from Italy are gonna build a Mx bike that they over complicate it like aprilia did, but as i said. Tony should be able to get them to focus on the right things. Like when Everts joined ktm and told them to get a linkage on the bikes.

... what WEC team did / does Beta own? lmao 

I've never seen them in the Paddock?

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mxnick
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1/22/2024 11:30am
RG437 wrote:
There’s a rumour that Ducati won’t be racing in the US until 2026 anyway, but I think the HEP/Roczen thing makes a ton of sense. They...

There’s a rumour that Ducati won’t be racing in the US until 2026 anyway, but I think the HEP/Roczen thing makes a ton of sense. They will want to find an existing team to run their racing program in the US and HEP really are the next in line to become a full factory team. They’ve proven themselves to be a race winning effort and capable of having elite riders which Ducati will also want. It works on many levels 

It’s not a rumor, they have stated no usa sx/mx team until 2026. Maybe GNCC for 2025. Maybe.  Italian nationals this year, launch the production bike in November, then mxgp next year (25) then USA sx / mx in ‘26. 

AussieParaMX
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1/22/2024 11:36am
Gravel wrote:
Does HEP have the resources to develop a completely new bike? The best thing about the Suzuki is everything has been figured out by a bunch...

Does HEP have the resources to develop a completely new bike? The best thing about the Suzuki is everything has been figured out by a bunch of teams, there’s no R&D surprises.

I would have thought that as well but everyone that rode on the team seemed to hate the bike untill Kenny, Chiz and the team manager went their. Now everyone seems to love the bike…  maybe they got very very very little in the way of guidance from other teams that developed it and needed to start from scratch… which could bode well for a Ducati takeover… 

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1/22/2024 11:41am
dylon291 wrote:

Maybe Roczen retires and gets the same job title as caroli but state side for them

If Ducati won’t be in the states until 2027 then I can see Roczen becoming a brand ambassador and a testing to set up the bike for supercross. Seems like Roczen will be retired from full time racing in 3 years. 

1/22/2024 11:53am

I'd say "no chance" because of Monster Energy as a sponsor, unless they'll let him run Red Bull on his bike.

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Sully
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1/22/2024 3:42pm
Rosso391 wrote:

I'd say "no chance" because of Monster Energy as a sponsor, unless they'll let him run Red Bull on his bike.

If there is a Monster connection to the US team, I wouldn't say "no chance" for Kenny because stranger things have happened (RV to Yamaha, anyone?), but I'd definitely say highly unlikely given he's been with RB since he was 13.

brimx153
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1/22/2024 4:17pm

Can't understand why people are wishing this to happen.  Roczen is on a bike he is happy with and can win any race any time ATM.  The chances of ducati coming in with a bike being able to win straight away is so slim . As long as Roczen can still win I want him on a bike that can . 

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LP31
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1/22/2024 4:18pm
You guys are all crazy if you’re seriously considering the possibility of a Honda/Ducati chassis collab.  Honda’s handling ranks them in the bottom half of every...

You guys are all crazy if you’re seriously considering the possibility of a Honda/Ducati chassis collab.  Honda’s handling ranks them in the bottom half of every 450 shootout for the past several years.  At the pinnacle of 2 wheel racing (MotoGP), Ducati has absolutely dominated and reduced the once all-powerful Repsol Honda team to a cring worthy running joke so pathetic that Marc Marquez reportedly bought his way out of his massive Honda contract to ride a year old Ducati for free.  For a couple years now, Ducati has dominated every form of racing they participate in.  I’m quite confident that Ducati is plenty capable of developing their own dirt bike chassis.

Great post, After years of motogp Ducati now dominate.

Can wait to see the desmo motor in action its going to be next level.

After having endless Honda MX bikes then buying a 1098S Superbike there is a huge difference between the two companies. Ducati build from passion and the roadbikes are like art work.

Yes the front guard looks weird but Im assuming its ramming air into the intake.

 

mxxxeR1
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1/22/2024 6:05pm

Ducati have money....... roczen in 2025 wk supercross and mxgp 

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AussieParaMX
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1/23/2024 12:44am
brimx153 wrote:
Can't understand why people are wishing this to happen.  Roczen is on a bike he is happy with and can win any race any time ATM. ...

Can't understand why people are wishing this to happen.  Roczen is on a bike he is happy with and can win any race any time ATM.  The chances of ducati coming in with a bike being able to win straight away is so slim . As long as Roczen can still win I want him on a bike that can . 

mostly because the electric start is a liability... 

Would he have won San Fran with an electric start? very possibly. Could he have been top 10 this week if he didnt have to kick it, also very possibly.  Would he be 18 points own with an electric start? I would say no.probably 10 possibly less if he won San Fran   

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125dad
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1/23/2024 2:31am
cbunt44 wrote:

I also heard a rumour (don't quote me on this) That Ducati have done a deal with Honda to use there chassis with a Ducati motor?

This aged well

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brimx153
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1/23/2024 5:24am
brimx153 wrote:
Can't understand why people are wishing this to happen.  Roczen is on a bike he is happy with and can win any race any time ATM. ...

Can't understand why people are wishing this to happen.  Roczen is on a bike he is happy with and can win any race any time ATM.  The chances of ducati coming in with a bike being able to win straight away is so slim . As long as Roczen can still win I want him on a bike that can . 

mostly because the electric start is a liability...  Would he have won San Fran with an electric start? very possibly. Could he have been top 10...

mostly because the electric start is a liability... 

Would he have won San Fran with an electric start? very possibly. Could he have been top 10 this week if he didnt have to kick it, also very possibly.  Would he be 18 points own with an electric start? I would say no.probably 10 possibly less if he won San Fran   

But the chances he is going to be able to be in a position to win on a brand new bike ,like ducati are very slim. He could be back in 7 th at the very best who knows . At least now he could win any time any race.  Mud races will always be the worst situation for no e start.  

Gravel
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1/23/2024 5:40am
Gravel wrote:
Does HEP have the resources to develop a completely new bike? The best thing about the Suzuki is everything has been figured out by a bunch...

Does HEP have the resources to develop a completely new bike? The best thing about the Suzuki is everything has been figured out by a bunch of teams, there’s no R&D surprises.

I would have thought that as well but everyone that rode on the team seemed to hate the bike untill Kenny, Chiz and the team manager...

I would have thought that as well but everyone that rode on the team seemed to hate the bike untill Kenny, Chiz and the team manager went their. Now everyone seems to love the bike…  maybe they got very very very little in the way of guidance from other teams that developed it and needed to start from scratch… which could bode well for a Ducati takeover… 

You’re right about the attitude towards Suzuki before KR, but I gotta wonder how much of that was just “attitude”? It seems like once a bike is dialed in it’s capable of winning races until a new chassis is introduced, then it takes a half season to get the new one up to race speed. Suzuki just skipped the new chassis part, lol!

-MAVERICK-
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1/23/2024 9:17am
Rosso391 wrote:

I'd say "no chance" because of Monster Energy as a sponsor, unless they'll let him run Red Bull on his bike.

Ken is currently on a one year deal. He might opt for another one year deal for 2025. 

Also, HEP has two rigs. Ken pits out of one with Fox and Red Bull on his helmet. The other rig the guys wear Fly with Twisted Tea on their bikes and helmets. 

Come 2026, who knows what Suzuki, HEP or Ken will do. Suzuki could decide they're pulling out of the sport forcing HEP to switch manufacturers. Ken could decide to retire. HEP could sign a 250 guy that is moving up to the 450 class. 

It's still two years away. 

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