Suzuki needs a button

Zycki11
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1/21/2024 9:41am
Zycki11 wrote:
They can do all of that, but it is still a matter of placing resources into that area. Right now, Suzuki is saying they do not...

They can do all of that, but it is still a matter of placing resources into that area. Right now, Suzuki is saying they do not want to. It may be a wise decision who knows. 

AVL28 wrote:
Surprised Suzuki is still neglecting moto even with the influx of other OEMs. Clearly the segment is doing better than it has in recent years or...

Surprised Suzuki is still neglecting moto even with the influx of other OEMs. Clearly the segment is doing better than it has in recent years or else Triumph, Beta, and Ducati wouldn’t be throwing their hat into the ring right?

kiwifan wrote:

Which is why the rumor of HEP moving to another manufacturer is doing the rounds

That rumor has been floating for a while. Sure, they are shopping, just like ClubMx. But just because you have factory support it doesn’t mean guaranteed results. One would think with HEP they went Roczen to sign off on it first

2
1/21/2024 10:59am

I saw Eli doing the same shit 😆 

dv12.com wrote:

That was weird too. Seems like he was trying to start his bike in gear but his clutch was acting out?

BobPA wrote:

The bike was running when he was looking for neutral, he was trying to fix the clutch lever. Watch the chain when he is shifting it.

My ktm is challenging to find neutral if it's running. Bike not running, there it is, like butter. I consider that a good thing.

9
1/21/2024 11:04am
Spoonguy wrote:

Suzuki really doesn't give a shit now, they sell small cars in Asia now.

Every 2nd vehicle is a small Suzuki in South Africa. Their sales are booming this side.

8
BobPA
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1/21/2024 11:15am
ToolMaker wrote:

My ktm is challenging to find neutral if it's running. Bike not running, there it is, like butter. I consider that a good thing.

Same with my Kawi. 

The Shop

1/21/2024 12:08pm

I remember having a conversation with a guy on this forum in 2021, he was saying that bike development since Roczen won outdoors 2016 had been huge and so in 2021, the 2016 bike was no longer competitive. 
 

here we are in 2024 and it’s looking pretty good don’t you think?? 
rider crash aside, that bike was plenty good enough last night. 

6
1
1/21/2024 12:12pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2024 12:13pm

Kroc has over achieved on the Suzuki. It would be nice to see them invest in a new RMZ450 because the current ones now are great bikes, just dated.

3
Austin_Rankin
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1/21/2024 12:17pm

they already have had e-start on that model. their 450x is e-start..... there LTR450 is e start....   they can do it, but wont. and will not do it for one specific rider no matter how special.....

 

they arent going to sell any more bike with the e-start cause there platform is extremely outdated.....

 

it sucks suzuki was a good brand for a long time still is, but the days are numbered that everyone gets to do this as a profession and or passion/hobby and they know this.

 

it doesnt help them that the ceo of the powersports division was draining money into their personal account or getting kickbacks or something a while back, i cant remember it all. But suzuki's platform of a motocross/supercross bike is outdated and they know that the people will still always try them, buy them, and ride them, regardless of what they do or dont do to the bike!.

 

Their RM80 has been the exact same for a long time. but to sell so little of them that they dont include graphics anymore just means to them a motorcycle is just a inventory part number sitting in a wharehouse somewhere waiting to be shipped to which ever country has a decent enough economy to where it will sell...

 

Its a sad time, for all brands and not just this one.

 

7
dsoll703
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1/21/2024 12:21pm
Gravel wrote:

How much did the kickstart cost KR last night? The last I saw him, he was struggling to find neutral and rowing away on the kickstart. 

dv12.com wrote:
What cost him was to go for that double without being aligned in the rut, the exact same mistake a 250 did. (Was it Thrasher? Im...

What cost him was to go for that double without being aligned in the rut, the exact same mistake a 250 did. (Was it Thrasher? Im drawing a blank... (edit: it was Kitchen)) and stop in the mechanic's area to straighten his front end. If he doesn't make that mistake, he might've won it. If he made that same mistake with an electric start, he wouldn't have won it either.

JazzyJJ wrote:

Kitchen did the same thing and also threw any a great chance at a win in the 250s

100% I had a feeling the Chef was going to check out. He was riding really well at that point.

1/21/2024 12:24pm
lostboy819 wrote:
Kroc has over achieved on the Suzuki. It would be nice to see them invest in a new RMZ450 because the current ones now are great...

Kroc has over achieved on the Suzuki. It would be nice to see them invest in a new RMZ450 because the current ones now are great bikes, just dated.

Has he really overachieved or does it just stack up as still perfectly competitive for the most part with its more updated competition?

Lots of other dudes have jumped on or off a Zook, to or from other platforms (McElrath, Antsie, Bogle). All seem to finish in the general range of where they always tend to.

12
dv12.com
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1/21/2024 12:50pm
JazzyJJ wrote:

Kitchen did the same thing and also threw any a great chance at a win in the 250s

I’m rewatching the race and you’re right, it was Kitchen. Same exact mistake as Kenny

5
1/21/2024 12:57pm

Like dv said the crash and pulling in cost him. Yamahas may as well be kick start as long as it takes them to get going 

Shimoda just took his shirt off.

1
web mx
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1/21/2024 1:15pm
kiwifan wrote:

Which is why the rumor of HEP moving to another manufacturer is doing the rounds

That was last summer, HEP signed for 2 more years with Suzuki recently.

3
Chance1216
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1/21/2024 1:22pm

But, then we couldn’t call him Kickstart Kenny.

2
1/21/2024 2:06pm
they already have had e-start on that model. their 450x is e-start..... there LTR450 is e start....   they can do it, but wont. and will not...

they already have had e-start on that model. their 450x is e-start..... there LTR450 is e start....   they can do it, but wont. and will not do it for one specific rider no matter how special.....

 

they arent going to sell any more bike with the e-start cause there platform is extremely outdated.....

 

it sucks suzuki was a good brand for a long time still is, but the days are numbered that everyone gets to do this as a profession and or passion/hobby and they know this.

 

it doesnt help them that the ceo of the powersports division was draining money into their personal account or getting kickbacks or something a while back, i cant remember it all. But suzuki's platform of a motocross/supercross bike is outdated and they know that the people will still always try them, buy them, and ride them, regardless of what they do or dont do to the bike!.

 

Their RM80 has been the exact same for a long time. but to sell so little of them that they dont include graphics anymore just means to them a motorcycle is just a inventory part number sitting in a wharehouse somewhere waiting to be shipped to which ever country has a decent enough economy to where it will sell...

 

Its a sad time, for all brands and not just this one.

 

Can you clarify exactly what you mean by “extremely outdated”? 
 

I mean, Kenny’s motor is fast- good start. 
looks like it handles well. 
the aesthetics are the bomb & in general Kenny looks like he isn’t at any disadvantage at all. 
 

We all know the bike off the showroom floor is more than good enough for us mere mortals too. 
 

So what actually IS “extremely outdated” and does it even matter??

15
1
snowy816
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1/21/2024 3:23pm
JazzyJJ wrote:

Kitchen did the same thing and also threw any a great chance at a win in the 250s

dv12.com wrote:

I’m rewatching the race and you’re right, it was Kitchen. Same exact mistake as Kenny

DV, I want to ask. Cant they put an after market electric start on it? Or is there some rule they can't?

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1
resetjet
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1/21/2024 4:42pm

Funny how times have changed. I remember arguing for the button,  only ktm had it,  and everyone was like,  not needed,  thats stupid and your not a man…..lol now.

5
1/21/2024 4:45pm
JazzyJJ wrote:

Kitchen did the same thing and also threw any a great chance at a win in the 250s

dv12.com wrote:

I’m rewatching the race and you’re right, it was Kitchen. Same exact mistake as Kenny

snowy816 wrote:

DV, I want to ask. Cant they put an after market electric start on it? Or is there some rule they can't?

Yes, they have already tested one and it had some quirks so they didn't feel comfortable using it without more testing.  It's not completely off the table though.  Like I mentioned earlier in this thread it could happen this year.  Looks like people don't believe me though, so I'm sure ML can confirm this.

1
MX690
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1/21/2024 4:57pm
kiwifan wrote:

Which is why the rumor of HEP moving to another manufacturer is doing the rounds

web mx wrote:

That was last summer, HEP signed for 2 more years with Suzuki recently.

Thanks I thought I was going nuts, I was certain I read that HEP just signed a multi year deal with Suzuki.

Gravel
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1/21/2024 6:52pm
resetjet wrote:
Funny how times have changed. I remember arguing for the button,  only ktm had it,  and everyone was like,  not needed,  thats stupid and your not...

Funny how times have changed. I remember arguing for the button,  only ktm had it,  and everyone was like,  not needed,  thats stupid and your not a man…..lol now.

I used to say that stuff.. in 2005 I bought a KTM with a button.. I stopped saying that stuff after a couple of potentially awkward situations (hillside stalls, stalls in the rocks, etc.) where a quick button push had me moving again! 
 

With EFI and E-start, I just can’t understand why a factory level bike would have difficulty starting, even in gear. If it does, the mapping and the clutch needs work. I understand that conventional clutch design has a challenge with this situation, but I don’t think it’s an impossible problem to solve. Stalls/crashes happen regularly, restarting time is time lost during a race, a bike that starts quickly is better than one that won’t.
 

Does anyone know how many spots KR lost before he got restarted? 

1
Austin_Rankin
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1/21/2024 7:33pm
Can you clarify exactly what you mean by “extremely outdated”?    I mean, Kenny’s motor is fast- good start.  looks like it handles well.  the aesthetics...

Can you clarify exactly what you mean by “extremely outdated”? 
 

I mean, Kenny’s motor is fast- good start. 
looks like it handles well. 
the aesthetics are the bomb & in general Kenny looks like he isn’t at any disadvantage at all. 
 

We all know the bike off the showroom floor is more than good enough for us mere mortals too. 
 

So what actually IS “extremely outdated” and does it even matter??

flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near identical to 2008.... bike is 242 lbs or something, 99 kawasaki kx125 swingarm paint used on the 2024 swingarm.... foot peg design are same as a ims pro series peg from 99.... now all this is the production bike im speaking of, 

 

kennys bike is different. it is special. and im glad they make it that way for him....

 

but if you have ridden a suzuki rmz450 2018-current then ridden a ktm 450 2018- current you would not be asking questions like this. 

12
Austin_Rankin
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1/21/2024 7:34pm
Gravel wrote:
I used to say that stuff.. in 2005 I bought a KTM with a button.. I stopped saying that stuff after a couple of potentially awkward...

I used to say that stuff.. in 2005 I bought a KTM with a button.. I stopped saying that stuff after a couple of potentially awkward situations (hillside stalls, stalls in the rocks, etc.) where a quick button push had me moving again! 
 

With EFI and E-start, I just can’t understand why a factory level bike would have difficulty starting, even in gear. If it does, the mapping and the clutch needs work. I understand that conventional clutch design has a challenge with this situation, but I don’t think it’s an impossible problem to solve. Stalls/crashes happen regularly, restarting time is time lost during a race, a bike that starts quickly is better than one that won’t.
 

Does anyone know how many spots KR lost before he got restarted? 

i thnk it was 3-5

 

1
rmgsxr
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1/21/2024 9:32pm
flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near...

flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near identical to 2008.... bike is 242 lbs or something, 99 kawasaki kx125 swingarm paint used on the 2024 swingarm.... foot peg design are same as a ims pro series peg from 99.... now all this is the production bike im speaking of, 

 

kennys bike is different. it is special. and im glad they make it that way for him....

 

but if you have ridden a suzuki rmz450 2018-current then ridden a ktm 450 2018- current you would not be asking questions like this. 

What’s crazy is how “not special” Kens bike is. 

7
1/21/2024 10:55pm
Can you clarify exactly what you mean by “extremely outdated”?    I mean, Kenny’s motor is fast- good start.  looks like it handles well.  the aesthetics...

Can you clarify exactly what you mean by “extremely outdated”? 
 

I mean, Kenny’s motor is fast- good start. 
looks like it handles well. 
the aesthetics are the bomb & in general Kenny looks like he isn’t at any disadvantage at all. 
 

We all know the bike off the showroom floor is more than good enough for us mere mortals too. 
 

So what actually IS “extremely outdated” and does it even matter??

flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near...

flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near identical to 2008.... bike is 242 lbs or something, 99 kawasaki kx125 swingarm paint used on the 2024 swingarm.... foot peg design are same as a ims pro series peg from 99.... now all this is the production bike im speaking of, 

 

kennys bike is different. it is special. and im glad they make it that way for him....

 

but if you have ridden a suzuki rmz450 2018-current then ridden a ktm 450 2018- current you would not be asking questions like this. 

And so why do any of those things you mention above matter??

The bike is competitive at the highest level- Kenny is proving it. 
 

The bike is plenty capable for any of us normal guys- we all acknowledge that.
 

I don’t understand why anything that you mention is causing a problem for or disappointing anyone? 

“The flywheel is heavy” - looks like it works fine to me..

”The footpegs are old fitment” - have they failed??

”crankcase breather design” - does it breath ok?? Seems to, so what??

”crankshaft fits 2008” - obviously a solid design then to not needing to be changed. And it looked to be working well on Saturday. 
 

Not one of those things you mentioned is a problem. 

8
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Austin_Rankin
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1/21/2024 11:32pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2024 11:32pm

I didn’t say it was bad? You asked me “how it was outdated” so I answered your question, trust me I’m a fan of the suzuki, and I agree it does have its place In all of this, I liked mine a lot. All 3 actually!

1
2
1/21/2024 11:40pm
I didn’t say it was bad? You asked me “how it was outdated” so I answered your question, trust me I’m a fan of the suzuki...

I didn’t say it was bad? You asked me “how it was outdated” so I answered your question, trust me I’m a fan of the suzuki, and I agree it does have its place In all of this, I liked mine a lot. All 3 actually!

No you said it was outdated. 
I asked what ‘outdated’ actually means and does it really matter? 
 

you replied with a list of bits that really don’t matter. 
“flywheel is heavy” - seriously does this make it outdated? 
 

if Honda fit a heavier flywheel to their 2026 model are you going to say they’ve gone back in time? 
a lighter flywheel doesn’t mean ‘modern’. 
 

Footpeg fitment?? 
swing arm paint?? C’mon dude, seriously??

”outdated” is what you said and yet the only thing outdated about it is it doesn’t have electric start. 

6
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js256
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1/22/2024 2:23am
Can you clarify exactly what you mean by “extremely outdated”?    I mean, Kenny’s motor is fast- good start.  looks like it handles well.  the aesthetics...

Can you clarify exactly what you mean by “extremely outdated”? 
 

I mean, Kenny’s motor is fast- good start. 
looks like it handles well. 
the aesthetics are the bomb & in general Kenny looks like he isn’t at any disadvantage at all. 
 

We all know the bike off the showroom floor is more than good enough for us mere mortals too. 
 

So what actually IS “extremely outdated” and does it even matter??

flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near...

flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near identical to 2008.... bike is 242 lbs or something, 99 kawasaki kx125 swingarm paint used on the 2024 swingarm.... foot peg design are same as a ims pro series peg from 99.... now all this is the production bike im speaking of, 

 

kennys bike is different. it is special. and im glad they make it that way for him....

 

but if you have ridden a suzuki rmz450 2018-current then ridden a ktm 450 2018- current you would not be asking questions like this. 

And so why do any of those things you mention above matter?? The bike is competitive at the highest level- Kenny is proving it.    The...

And so why do any of those things you mention above matter??

The bike is competitive at the highest level- Kenny is proving it. 
 

The bike is plenty capable for any of us normal guys- we all acknowledge that.
 

I don’t understand why anything that you mention is causing a problem for or disappointing anyone? 

“The flywheel is heavy” - looks like it works fine to me..

”The footpegs are old fitment” - have they failed??

”crankcase breather design” - does it breath ok?? Seems to, so what??

”crankshaft fits 2008” - obviously a solid design then to not needing to be changed. And it looked to be working well on Saturday. 
 

Not one of those things you mentioned is a problem. 

Have you ridden a stock Suzuki? they are slow and heavy. You are def at a disadvantage vs say a ktm especially if your a rider that likes to lug the bike there's not enough torque to match the other bikes

3
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CLT809
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1/22/2024 5:15am
flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near...

flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near identical to 2008.... bike is 242 lbs or something, 99 kawasaki kx125 swingarm paint used on the 2024 swingarm.... foot peg design are same as a ims pro series peg from 99.... now all this is the production bike im speaking of, 

 

kennys bike is different. it is special. and im glad they make it that way for him....

 

but if you have ridden a suzuki rmz450 2018-current then ridden a ktm 450 2018- current you would not be asking questions like this. 

LOL, who hurt you at Suzuki? 
-Flywheel is actually the same as the older 250, if you want a heavier one, get a 2016+ rmz250 flywheel. The crank is heavy, which is what gives that unique “chug” and torquey feeling that rmz fans like. Frankly, I’d rather it have that character than be yet another 450 with a real linear power curve. 

-Ignition is outdated? How so? You’ve got the GET app to remap right from your phone, and three couplers to access the different maps you choose. Even runs some diagnostics and has an hour meter, and has a launch control. The only thing I can think of is they don’t put the maps on the bars. 

-What about the breather is sketchy? How is their rubber hose setup more dangerous than any other oem rubber breather hose?

-the crank goes back to 2015. 08-12 had their own, then 13&14 had another generation.  They might drop in, but they are different. By that same logic, the KTM group crank goes back to 2012 factory edition, or even older off road model. 

-Throttle body has a bottom mount injector since 2018. Other than injector location and perhaps bore size, what other change is an OEM making to the throttle body? Every brand other than Yamaha is using a keihin body. 

-it’s heavy. Ok, I didn’t particularly notice other than lifting it on the stand at the end of the moto. 

-What rmz’s are you buying? Pretty sure they’ve been clear anodized on the swingarm since inception, just like their old two stroke predecessors. I guess the 04-06 rmz250 had a Kawasaki painted swingarm 😆 

-I don’t know how old the peg design is, but I can tell you I greatly prefer it to the super dull and impossible to sharpen ones that came on my 2016 husky I had before, and my 2021 gasgasses I had after my Suzukis. Those felt downright dangerous the first few rides. 
 

-Which brings me to your final point. I have ridden the KTM group bikes. My first thought when I picked up my 2021 gasgas 450 when I no longer worked at Suzuki? “Crap this was a mistake”. I liked the torque. My mapping was dialed. I was happy with the chassis. I pulled way more holeshots on that dinosaur than I ever did on the gasgas (and since I’m sure you’ll go there, in 450A and +25). But most importantly for me, and frankly I’m sure the reason people still buy the RMZ’s, is the smile and laps per dollar ratio is significantly better. So much so, I bought new Suzukis this fall.

Outdated or not, I think it’s simply being proven these minuscule changes being made by other OEM’s aren’t making for radically faster motorcycles, but they are working for the marketing department as evident by your crusade. 

10
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mikelawlor
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1/22/2024 5:42am

I think the other problem with throwing a 450x motor in there is it’s not homoligated and the head is different and makes way less power. It’s not as simple as everyone thinks. Suzuki gives zero fucks and the team has their hands tied. The X was last made in 2019 and it was never homologated. 

1
1/22/2024 5:58am Edited Date/Time 1/22/2024 5:58am

There was talks that all Zuki resources were pointed at moving the production plant in Japan and people expected a retooling and reinvestment to occur soon

1/22/2024 6:38am
flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near...

flywheel is heavy, ignition is outdated, crankcase breather design is sketch, you can install a 2008 crankshaft into the 2024 model bike, throttle body is near identical to 2008.... bike is 242 lbs or something, 99 kawasaki kx125 swingarm paint used on the 2024 swingarm.... foot peg design are same as a ims pro series peg from 99.... now all this is the production bike im speaking of, 

 

kennys bike is different. it is special. and im glad they make it that way for him....

 

but if you have ridden a suzuki rmz450 2018-current then ridden a ktm 450 2018- current you would not be asking questions like this. 

CLT809 wrote:
LOL, who hurt you at Suzuki?  -Flywheel is actually the same as the older 250, if you want a heavier one, get a 2016+ rmz250 flywheel...

LOL, who hurt you at Suzuki? 
-Flywheel is actually the same as the older 250, if you want a heavier one, get a 2016+ rmz250 flywheel. The crank is heavy, which is what gives that unique “chug” and torquey feeling that rmz fans like. Frankly, I’d rather it have that character than be yet another 450 with a real linear power curve. 

-Ignition is outdated? How so? You’ve got the GET app to remap right from your phone, and three couplers to access the different maps you choose. Even runs some diagnostics and has an hour meter, and has a launch control. The only thing I can think of is they don’t put the maps on the bars. 

-What about the breather is sketchy? How is their rubber hose setup more dangerous than any other oem rubber breather hose?

-the crank goes back to 2015. 08-12 had their own, then 13&14 had another generation.  They might drop in, but they are different. By that same logic, the KTM group crank goes back to 2012 factory edition, or even older off road model. 

-Throttle body has a bottom mount injector since 2018. Other than injector location and perhaps bore size, what other change is an OEM making to the throttle body? Every brand other than Yamaha is using a keihin body. 

-it’s heavy. Ok, I didn’t particularly notice other than lifting it on the stand at the end of the moto. 

-What rmz’s are you buying? Pretty sure they’ve been clear anodized on the swingarm since inception, just like their old two stroke predecessors. I guess the 04-06 rmz250 had a Kawasaki painted swingarm 😆 

-I don’t know how old the peg design is, but I can tell you I greatly prefer it to the super dull and impossible to sharpen ones that came on my 2016 husky I had before, and my 2021 gasgasses I had after my Suzukis. Those felt downright dangerous the first few rides. 
 

-Which brings me to your final point. I have ridden the KTM group bikes. My first thought when I picked up my 2021 gasgas 450 when I no longer worked at Suzuki? “Crap this was a mistake”. I liked the torque. My mapping was dialed. I was happy with the chassis. I pulled way more holeshots on that dinosaur than I ever did on the gasgas (and since I’m sure you’ll go there, in 450A and +25). But most importantly for me, and frankly I’m sure the reason people still buy the RMZ’s, is the smile and laps per dollar ratio is significantly better. So much so, I bought new Suzukis this fall.

Outdated or not, I think it’s simply being proven these minuscule changes being made by other OEM’s aren’t making for radically faster motorcycles, but they are working for the marketing department as evident by your crusade. 

Sounds like you're a little bias towards the ole dinosaur. What did you do at Suzuki? 

2

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