Ktm moving some production to China

avidchimp
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12/27/2023 10:13am
endurox wrote:
KTM should focus their efforts on QC and not try to block Stark from racing Superenduro. I had been riding KTM's since 1983. Next bike will...

KTM should focus their efforts on QC and not try to block Stark from racing Superenduro. I had been riding KTM's since 1983. Next bike will be a Beta.

studworx wrote:

Beta’s have major crank bearing issues lol

But Beta will warranty work just about any failure within reason. Dude I know absolutely thrashed his 2022 390 RE with little maintenance and they still warrantied it.

My 500 RRS has a two year warranty no questions asked.

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Richy
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12/27/2023 10:52am Edited Date/Time 12/27/2023 10:54am

Aftermarket, performance con rods are one case in point.

One Chinese company, with a suitably shitty name, MaxPeeding Rods (yes, not speeding, peeding) are made of quality (often British) steel, use genuine American ARP bolts (granted they're the cheaper ARP 2000 series), have the big ends finished with a Dutch Sonnen honing machine (same brand as both my local engine builders in the UK use), etc... they used to be printed (still in China, from the factory) with other brands logos and sold by those brands for good money, often all they did was repackage them and weight match then a little closer.

I've personally seen these cheapo rods take 170 ft/lb per cylinder for multiple seasons and loads of people use them and have pushed them harder and further.

Another Chinese company, sold under various names, used shit steel, sketchy tolerances, fake ARP/generic unbranded bolts, and I only know two engines which used them and both had rod failures at significantly lower torque/power levels.

With KTMs recent and numerous quality/development failings, this move seems counter productive though. It's easy to throw away a reputation that took a long time to build. We all thought KTM's were quirky oddball contraptions even long after they'd turned a corner and were making great bikes, some still think that now... Imagine how long this bad taste will last if these fuck ups continue.

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soggy
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12/27/2023 11:02am

Moving production to China is nothing to do with benefitting the consumer, it’s all about making more profit. 

They are running a business not a non profit. 

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wrc777
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12/27/2023 6:25pm

Are they still going to cost 25% more than their competitors? 

They don’t now. Not msrp to msrp and you can generally get a better discount than on a Yamaha or Honda. You get a way better clutch and brakes too. I guess they should throw those in for free?

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The Shop

burn1986
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2/19/2024 7:15am
Man, First of all thank you all for making me laugh so much this morning, i needed it.  Never have i seen a comment section that...

Man, First of all thank you all for making me laugh so much this morning, i needed it. 

Never have i seen a comment section that has been filled with such people who have brains equally as small as the others, fascinating.

It has already been put out there in written statement by the KTM Group that ALL street bike production will be manufactured over in China. The offroad chain however, will all remain to be built in-house in Austria. There isn’t a single part that will be made in china that will find it’s way on to any of the offroad models any time soon, that includes Husqvarna & GAS GAS As well.

So ya been stewing on this a couple o months?

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soggy
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2/19/2024 7:23am

Patiently waiting for someone to post a ktm off-road part made in China…

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fourfourone
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2/19/2024 7:25am

Are they still going to cost 25% more than their competitors? 

wrc777 wrote:
They don’t now. Not msrp to msrp and you can generally get a better discount than on a Yamaha or Honda. You get a way better...

They don’t now. Not msrp to msrp and you can generally get a better discount than on a Yamaha or Honda. You get a way better clutch and brakes too. I guess they should throw those in for free?

KTM  250SXF $10199

Honda CRF250R $8299

20% more. 

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wrc777
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2/19/2024 7:59am

Are they still going to cost 25% more than their competitors? 

wrc777 wrote:
They don’t now. Not msrp to msrp and you can generally get a better discount than on a Yamaha or Honda. You get a way better...

They don’t now. Not msrp to msrp and you can generally get a better discount than on a Yamaha or Honda. You get a way better clutch and brakes too. I guess they should throw those in for free?

KTM  250SXF $10199

Honda CRF250R $8299

20% more. 

Ktm has rebates. Honda does not. The difference if you buy one today is probably less than 20%. The ktm makes a lot more power and the stock suspension setting is a lot better than the Honda. I guess that isn’t worth anything.  

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2/19/2024 8:23am
soggy wrote:

Patiently waiting for someone to post a ktm off-road part made in China…

All of the radiators on the ‘23/‘24 OffRoad bikes are made in China. I’m sure that’s not the only parts, but the radiators are. 

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bvm111
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2/19/2024 8:31am

Typing on my made in china by 5yo slave labor iphone that i paid 1000 dollars for to complain about things being made in china… wake up america almost everything is made in china. 

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wrc777
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2/19/2024 10:15am
soggy wrote:

Patiently waiting for someone to post a ktm off-road part made in China…

Langhammx wrote:

All of the radiators on the ‘23/‘24 OffRoad bikes are made in China. I’m sure that’s not the only parts, but the radiators are. 

Being in the radiator industry radiators from China range from best available to quite bad. I would be surprised if the Japanese bikes have not been using Chinese radiators for years.

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2/19/2024 10:19am
wrc777 wrote:
Being in the radiator industry radiators from China range from best available to quite bad. I would be surprised if the Japanese bikes have not been...

Being in the radiator industry radiators from China range from best available to quite bad. I would be surprised if the Japanese bikes have not been using Chinese radiators for years.

They look and perform every bit as good as the previous years, no issue with quality. Weird part to me is that Pankl makes them, so I’m guessing they have opened up a plant there as well. Pankl has been making a lot of the engine parts in KTM dirt bikes for many years. They have an exceptional quality history. 

fourfourone
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2/19/2024 11:48am
wrc777 wrote:
They don’t now. Not msrp to msrp and you can generally get a better discount than on a Yamaha or Honda. You get a way better...

They don’t now. Not msrp to msrp and you can generally get a better discount than on a Yamaha or Honda. You get a way better clutch and brakes too. I guess they should throw those in for free?

KTM  250SXF $10199

Honda CRF250R $8299

20% more. 

wrc777 wrote:
Ktm has rebates. Honda does not. The difference if you buy one today is probably less than 20%. The ktm makes a lot more power and...

Ktm has rebates. Honda does not. The difference if you buy one today is probably less than 20%. The ktm makes a lot more power and the stock suspension setting is a lot better than the Honda. I guess that isn’t worth anything.  

I haven't see any KTM rebates up here in the northeast. Plus you will pay more tax on a 10k bike than you will on an 8k bike. 

The suspension is a matter of opinion really. Many don't like air forks and the conversion for them is expensive. A revalve on the honda is like 1/3 the price on a spring conversion for the KTM. 

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endurox
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2/19/2024 1:10pm

KTM  250SXF $10199

Honda CRF250R $8299

20% more. 

wrc777 wrote:
Ktm has rebates. Honda does not. The difference if you buy one today is probably less than 20%. The ktm makes a lot more power and...

Ktm has rebates. Honda does not. The difference if you buy one today is probably less than 20%. The ktm makes a lot more power and the stock suspension setting is a lot better than the Honda. I guess that isn’t worth anything.  

I haven't see any KTM rebates up here in the northeast. Plus you will pay more tax on a 10k bike than you will on an...

I haven't see any KTM rebates up here in the northeast. Plus you will pay more tax on a 10k bike than you will on an 8k bike. 

The suspension is a matter of opinion really. Many don't like air forks and the conversion for them is expensive. A revalve on the honda is like 1/3 the price on a spring conversion for the KTM. 

Local dealer here in Boise is already discounting 1500$ off KTM's I have been told. Except the 300's.

2/19/2024 4:06pm
soggy wrote:

Patiently waiting for someone to post a ktm off-road part made in China…

Langhammx wrote:

All of the radiators on the ‘23/‘24 OffRoad bikes are made in China. I’m sure that’s not the only parts, but the radiators are. 

wrc777 wrote:
Being in the radiator industry radiators from China range from best available to quite bad. I would be surprised if the Japanese bikes have not been...

Being in the radiator industry radiators from China range from best available to quite bad. I would be surprised if the Japanese bikes have not been using Chinese radiators for years.

Any radiators made in the USA ?  My alum oem Honda clutch plates r made in some Asian country not Japan. They looked different & there a tiny bit thicker I think.  Put the bike in 1st & it takes off, rev it in gear with clutch in & your moving.  I had to do a few wo clutch drops holding the front brake to break them in on black top.   B4 that snap the throttle & grab the brakes. You couldn’t do a start.  It ruined a rd trip to a deep sand track. 

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wrc777
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2/19/2024 4:26pm
Langhammx wrote:

All of the radiators on the ‘23/‘24 OffRoad bikes are made in China. I’m sure that’s not the only parts, but the radiators are. 

wrc777 wrote:
Being in the radiator industry radiators from China range from best available to quite bad. I would be surprised if the Japanese bikes have not been...

Being in the radiator industry radiators from China range from best available to quite bad. I would be surprised if the Japanese bikes have not been using Chinese radiators for years.

Any radiators made in the USA ?  My alum oem Honda clutch plates r made in some Asian country not Japan. They looked different & there...

Any radiators made in the USA ?  My alum oem Honda clutch plates r made in some Asian country not Japan. They looked different & there a tiny bit thicker I think.  Put the bike in 1st & it takes off, rev it in gear with clutch in & your moving.  I had to do a few wo clutch drops holding the front brake to break them in on black top.   B4 that snap the throttle & grab the brakes. You couldn’t do a start.  It ruined a rd trip to a deep sand track. 

Most cars assembled in the US have Mexican or US made radiators. Most of the aluminum used is Chinese. Chinese made stuff in plants managed by the Japanese, US, or Europeans is generally decent and probably better than anything made in Mexico. China is capable of high quality if someone is there to keep them honest. 

2/19/2024 4:45pm
MX558 wrote:
After looking at the wiring job on my 22 350 I assumed they were already made in China . I wonder if the  the 25s will...

After looking at the wiring job on my 22 350 I assumed they were already made in China .

I wonder if the  the 25s will be China made ? If so I'm out for sure 

 

G-man wrote:
Yes I wish they would let us know which models will be made in China.  My 2016 350XCFW has 282 hours on it and even though...

Yes I wish they would let us know which models will be made in China.

 My 2016 350XCFW has 282 hours on it and even though I love the bike was thinking maybe I should get a new one next year.

But if they're made in China no thanks.😬🤮

 

Look at the VIN, if the first 2 characters are VB it was made, or at least assembled in Austria, If the first character is L is was made in China.

RACING
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2/19/2024 4:45pm
soggy wrote:

Patiently waiting for someone to post a ktm off-road part made in China…

Checked the new "Penton"?

Wink

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TeamGreen
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2/20/2024 10:02am

Word around the water cooler is that more and more KTM/Perier Mobility vendors are being advised to set up shop in China for future production needs. When I say “advised”…it seems like it’s more like they either need to do it or they’re out as a vendor. 

The current KTM 790 Adventure built by CF Moto appears to be a “pre-run” for future KTM production expansion and I’m hearing that’s likely going to include some of the stuff we ride. 

Several small KTM models are made in India by Bajaj. Models that most of us know as 200/390 street/ADV/SM models. 

Several of the vendors/brands that KTM has used over the years are, now-a-days, owned by KTM. From cranks to pistons to brakes/hydraulics and suspension companies. 

Everything that KTM/Perier is doing is smart. In fact…it’s the way to do things in the modern world ESPECIALLY when you’re selling in…growing in…expanding in…A Global Market. 

Now, are we gonna be stoked about a Chinese SX-F…? Will we pay…will we be asked to pay the same premium price if and when those models become Chinese built…? We’ll see. 

I know some of us, including myself, have a bit of heart-burn when we hear of our Austrian scooters going Chinese; but, it looks like it’s inevitable and…in-fact…the growing Chinese content is already a fact of life on the current bikes we ride. 

3
2/20/2024 10:33am

If they own the factories, and use the same machines and materials, its just the people that will be different. And the cost of labor. It might not be the worst thing they could do.  If it allows them to have a higher margin and give dealers a higher margin that should eventually spread to the consumers in some way. 

If sales slow , prices should also go lower.  I'm glad I did not buy into selling EMTBs a couple years ago. With many places selling them at prices lower than my dealer price would have been.  If KTM's margins are bigger it will allow them a bigger cushion to float the slower times that always seem to happen in this sport and the world wide economy. And could help them avoid going away all together if things got too slow. KTM is much more dependant on a smaller market than almost every other dirtbike maker is. With most other brands that support racing like KTM, having a wide range of product lines with more stable areas of sales.  I hope it ends up being a good thing. They have insight of knowing more of the inside info than most on here would. So lets hope that they are acting in the best interest of the brands overall health. And not just some quick money. 

 

 Years ago there were people saying that the Austrian government was investing into KTM and pumped a bunch of money into them to help them grow into a global brand.  I wonder if that was true? If maybe it stopped , and perhaps China has replaced them as their government funding source. Seems like the chinese government has their hands in everything.  This is speculation based on old rumors and not much more.  

burn1986
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2/20/2024 10:42am

Eh, does it really matter? Most of the riders buying these bikes in the future can buy two or three and rotate them as needed. 

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wrc777
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2/20/2024 11:40am

KTM was able to source a lot of parts from eastern Europe at competitive prices. The Russia sanctions and CO2 reduction have and will continue to drive up energy costs in Europe. Inflation is a bigger problem in Europe than China. I expect they will buys parts from China and assemble competition mx/xc bikes in Austria. Higher volume road models will probably get assembled in China just like the Japanese manufacturers do. Honda has been making the CRF air cooled bikes there for a long time. I suspect one reason Japanese bikes have been cheaper than KTM is that a lot of the parts are made in China and assembled in Japan.

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ILoveMoto
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2/20/2024 11:53am
TeamGreen wrote:
Word around the water cooler is that more and more KTM/Perier Mobility vendors are being advised to set up shop in China for future production needs...

Word around the water cooler is that more and more KTM/Perier Mobility vendors are being advised to set up shop in China for future production needs. When I say “advised”…it seems like it’s more like they either need to do it or they’re out as a vendor. 

The current KTM 790 Adventure built by CF Moto appears to be a “pre-run” for future KTM production expansion and I’m hearing that’s likely going to include some of the stuff we ride. 

Several small KTM models are made in India by Bajaj. Models that most of us know as 200/390 street/ADV/SM models. 

Several of the vendors/brands that KTM has used over the years are, now-a-days, owned by KTM. From cranks to pistons to brakes/hydraulics and suspension companies. 

Everything that KTM/Perier is doing is smart. In fact…it’s the way to do things in the modern world ESPECIALLY when you’re selling in…growing in…expanding in…A Global Market. 

Now, are we gonna be stoked about a Chinese SX-F…? Will we pay…will we be asked to pay the same premium price if and when those models become Chinese built…? We’ll see. 

I know some of us, including myself, have a bit of heart-burn when we hear of our Austrian scooters going Chinese; but, it looks like it’s inevitable and…in-fact…the growing Chinese content is already a fact of life on the current bikes we ride. 

"The U.S. imported a total of $427.2 billion from China last year, a roughly 20% decrease from the year before, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, a U.S. government agency. Meanwhile, Mexico exported $475.6 billion to the U.S., up 5% from 2022."

This surprised me too...

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NSP139
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2/20/2024 12:25pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2024 3:47pm
wrc777 wrote:
Being in the radiator industry radiators from China range from best available to quite bad. I would be surprised if the Japanese bikes have not been...

Being in the radiator industry radiators from China range from best available to quite bad. I would be surprised if the Japanese bikes have not been using Chinese radiators for years.

Langhammx wrote:
They look and perform every bit as good as the previous years, no issue with quality. Weird part to me is that Pankl makes them, so...

They look and perform every bit as good as the previous years, no issue with quality. Weird part to me is that Pankl makes them, so I’m guessing they have opened up a plant there as well. Pankl has been making a lot of the engine parts in KTM dirt bikes for many years. They have an exceptional quality history. 

I believe KTM owns 98% of Pankl . So I wonder if the transmissions are being made in China?

Edit; Pankl in China is Pankl cooling systems so I guess we're safe on the transmission side for now! Still not a good look for a high-end brand like KTM and the premium they expect people to pay!

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