Grenaded GasGas 2 Stroke

YZed250
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Costa Mesa, CA US
11/29/2023 8:43am
edot504_ wrote:

Yeah we’re just going to find a way to buy a crate engine, if we can find somewhere to buy it from haha

These are brand new bikes, taken apart and sold as parts, I’ll try and find a link to his eBay page, but he posts on here...

These are brand new bikes, taken apart and sold as parts, I’ll try and find a link to his eBay page, but he posts on here as well. 
 

Mav ~ help me out here… he’s posted on the for sale section several times. 

wrc777
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11/29/2023 8:46am
crmx105 wrote:
Doesn't happen immediately. Typically happens when the bike is pushed hard. Its due to the inner intake skirt of the piston being to thick. Google it...

Doesn't happen immediately. Typically happens when the bike is pushed hard. Its due to the inner intake skirt of the piston being to thick. Google it or search the 300 SX thread, its on there. I am not that skilled on the computer to find it and attach it to my post. Lol

My point is it either hits or doesn’t. The piston and crank can’t move that much unless the rod or rod bushing is coming apart and then yeah they could hit. 

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wrc777
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11/29/2023 8:50am
NLMB150 wrote:
I’ve seen this happen to 4 bikes I know off.   2 of them were under 20 hours… and was told by a shop owner the...

I’ve seen this happen to 4 bikes I know off.   2 of them were under 20 hours…

and was told by a shop owner the new efi bikes do the same thing.       It’s not you.  Just a reoccurring issue.       

Pinit racing on you tube claimed their bike was low on power and the x dimension was way too tight from the factory. That could damage the rod and/or crank over time. I think the early calibrations were too lean on top which is risky. TPS setting is important too and they are not getting set consistently. 

MxAddic
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11/29/2023 8:52am
wrc777 wrote:
My point is it either hits or doesn’t. The piston and crank can’t move that much unless the rod or rod bushing is coming apart and...

My point is it either hits or doesn’t. The piston and crank can’t move that much unless the rod or rod bushing is coming apart and then yeah they could hit. 

They can and do hit from day 1...

Some live to tell others not so much.

4

The Shop

crmx105
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Dunnellon, FL US
11/29/2023 9:11am
crmx105 wrote:
Doesn't happen immediately. Typically happens when the bike is pushed hard. Its due to the inner intake skirt of the piston being to thick. Google it...

Doesn't happen immediately. Typically happens when the bike is pushed hard. Its due to the inner intake skirt of the piston being to thick. Google it or search the 300 SX thread, its on there. I am not that skilled on the computer to find it and attach it to my post. Lol

wrc777 wrote:
My point is it either hits or doesn’t. The piston and crank can’t move that much unless the rod or rod bushing is coming apart and...

My point is it either hits or doesn’t. The piston and crank can’t move that much unless the rod or rod bushing is coming apart and then yeah they could hit. 

All i can say is it's a known issue. Someone posted actual measurements of the difference in skirt thickness and most don't fail immediately. 

1
Hammer 663s
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Forest Grove, OR US
11/29/2023 9:43am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2023 10:27am

100 hours on a 2 stroke crank is a lot if ridden hard. And you have to be precise with the X and Z settings on top end rebuilds. Just putting in one base gasket (what size????) isn't the way to go. You have to check X once jug is on and torqued even if you used the same thickness as what came off.

I'll guess 3 things - X was off, crank was worn, and you were detonating on 92 octane. I run a blend of VP110 and 92 to hit about 103 octane at 40:1. 20-25 hours per piston ridden pretty hard. Ours are all 125s but there's little real difference in material or maintenance.

3
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RABnasty
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Temecula, CA US
11/29/2023 10:12am
RABnasty wrote:

What year, CC, hours and fuel type? Just curious. Sorry to see! 

edot504_ wrote:
2022, 250, 100 hours on frame maybe 20 on top end, and we run 91 pump gas with Motorex 32:1. Everything in the bike is fully...

2022, 250, 100 hours on frame maybe 20 on top end, and we run 91 pump gas with Motorex 32:1. Everything in the bike is fully stock

ah man that's a bummer sorry to hear that! Sounds like you did everything right just some bad luck. Glad you didn't get hurt let us know what you find!

2
Ake27
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Dublin, CA US
11/29/2023 10:21am

I’m guessing you measured the original base gasket thickness and installed the same one?

3
edot504_
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Ridgecrest , CA US
11/29/2023 10:37am

image 72.jpg?VersionId=3XRofYQnpLf97c

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edot504_
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11/29/2023 10:41am
Ake27 wrote:

I’m guessing you measured the original base gasket thickness and installed the same one?

Yes

1
MxAddic
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11/29/2023 11:07am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2023 11:14am
edot504_ wrote:

image 72.jpg?VersionId=3XRofYQnpLf97c

Small end failure. It got tight and popped. Notice the color of the bearing surface. That is not an something that is an instantaneous failure but rather it got hot and then popped. These type of things often fail at later times than when the damage was done. Saying it didn't have to be damaged on the day it failed, only that it was previously damaged and finally failed.

9
SteveUrchin
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Laguna Niguel , CA US
11/29/2023 11:21am

Probably the crank or wrong head base gasket my 17 husky had 4 options for base gasket thickness, if it’s hitting head that hard for 20 hours I can see this happening. 

3
1
burn1986
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bossier city, LA US
11/29/2023 11:24am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2023 11:28am
edot504_ wrote:

image 72.jpg?VersionId=3XRofYQnpLf97c

Holy crap! That thing disintegrated. Tbh, I’ve never seen that before. It would be nice if the dealer rebuilt it for free or free labor. The problem is that the stock parts are obviously suspect at this point. I’m not sure I would feel comfortable putting OEM piston, head, or crank in it. 

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edot504_
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11/29/2023 11:29am
edot504_ wrote:

image 72.jpg?VersionId=3XRofYQnpLf97c

burn1986 wrote:
Holy crap! That thing disintegrated. Tbh, I’ve never seen that before. It would be nice if the dealer rebuilt it for free or free labor. The...

Holy crap! That thing disintegrated. Tbh, I’ve never seen that before. It would be nice if the dealer rebuilt it for free or free labor. The problem is that the stock parts are obviously suspect at this point. I’m not sure I would feel comfortable putting OEM piston, head, or crank in it. 

We asked GasGas what they could do for us, and we got nothing. 

1
burn1986
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11/29/2023 11:44am
edot504_ wrote:

We asked GasGas what they could do for us, and we got nothing. 

Wow, that sucks. Looking at that failure, even if it had an air leak, stuck a piston, or wrist pin failure, there is no way that the head should have failed like that. At most it’s gonna just seize up and maybe blow the head or base gasket. It’s a clear manufacturer failure. I guess it doesn’t do any good now unfortunately. Just crazy 🤔

2
4
11/29/2023 11:54am

Would it be cheaper just to get a new crate engine? lol

2
edot504_
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11/29/2023 12:09pm

Would it be cheaper just to get a new crate engine? lol

Yes if we could find one

2
byke
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Auburn, CA US
11/29/2023 12:15pm

That's a cheap looking base gasket. 

And everything looks hot in there. Crank looks hot, cases look hot, everything has a "fast guy in sand" look to it.

2
edot504_
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11/29/2023 12:24pm
byke wrote:
That's a cheap looking base gasket.  And everything looks hot in there. Crank looks hot, cases look hot, everything has a "fast guy in sand" look...

That's a cheap looking base gasket. 

And everything looks hot in there. Crank looks hot, cases look hot, everything has a "fast guy in sand" look to it.

Everything is OEM 🤷‍♂️, and it happened at Glen Helen

2
SoCalMX70
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Thousand Oaks, CA US
11/29/2023 12:50pm
100 hours on a 2 stroke crank is a lot if ridden hard. And you have to be precise with the X and Z settings on...

100 hours on a 2 stroke crank is a lot if ridden hard. And you have to be precise with the X and Z settings on top end rebuilds. Just putting in one base gasket (what size????) isn't the way to go. You have to check X once jug is on and torqued even if you used the same thickness as what came off.

I'll guess 3 things - X was off, crank was worn, and you were detonating on 92 octane. I run a blend of VP110 and 92 to hit about 103 octane at 40:1. 20-25 hours per piston ridden pretty hard. Ours are all 125s but there's little real difference in material or maintenance.

100 hours is nothing as long as you don't buy into the 60:1 and leaner BS for the 250s and 300s

Jet for 30-40:1 and your crank will be happy for a couple hundred hours...

14
MxAddic
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11/29/2023 2:18pm Edited Date/Time 11/29/2023 2:31pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:
100 hours is nothing as long as you don't buy into the 60:1 and leaner BS for the 250s and 300s Jet for 30-40:1 and your...

100 hours is nothing as long as you don't buy into the 60:1 and leaner BS for the 250s and 300s

Jet for 30-40:1 and your crank will be happy for a couple hundred hours...

At some point it got hot or dried out. The chance of a good bearing failure are slim at best.

3
11/29/2023 2:39pm

I hate to agree with @MxAddic but the small end looks burnt, overheated, from the blackening of the base gasket, I'd guess an air leak through the base gasket, causing it to run lean.

image-20231130093628-1

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SoCalMX70
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11/29/2023 2:56pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:
100 hours is nothing as long as you don't buy into the 60:1 and leaner BS for the 250s and 300s Jet for 30-40:1 and your...

100 hours is nothing as long as you don't buy into the 60:1 and leaner BS for the 250s and 300s

Jet for 30-40:1 and your crank will be happy for a couple hundred hours...

MxAddic wrote:

At some point it got hot or dried out. The chance of a good bearing failure are slim at best.

I definitely don't dispute that.

Running 32:1 vs "recommended" 60:1 means it was running at a leaner air to fuel ratio than intended. OP said "all stock", so no jetting changes made to compensate? Not sure how good the stock jetting is on these bikes though... For all I know it was dialed with the premix ratio change.

Either way, feels like an air leak would be the most likely culprit as mentioned above. Or, the OEM cranks are occasionally garbage.

2
Rejser
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SE
11/29/2023 3:16pm

Holy crap thats grenaded alright.

Looks very dry for being the bottom end

1
FGR01
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11/29/2023 3:21pm
Ake27 wrote:

I’m guessing you measured the original base gasket thickness and installed the same one?

edot504_ wrote:

Yes

For these bikes, the OEM base gaskets come in 5 thicknesses - .20, .25, .40, .50, and .75mm.  The one in your bike looks like a .25mm.  I have all of them here and the .25mm is the only one that is white like that.  All the others are green.  Most of these bikes come from the factory with a pretty thick setup to get the X dimension with the piston flush with the top of the cylinder.  Most bikes will have 1 or 2 stacked to get around .75 - .90mm  total of gaskets.     Maybe you measured wrong and picked the wrong one?  I have never seen a stock KTM 2-stroke with one single 0.25mm gasket.  Compared to 0.80mm, 0.25mm is really thin and will tighten the squish a ton.  Anyway, you can pull that gasket off there carefully and measure it with a caliper and let us know what thickness it is.  They really don't compress a whole lot and you can usually distinguish what thickness it was.

4
CPR
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AU
11/29/2023 10:07pm
I hate to agree with @MxAddic but the small end looks burnt, overheated, from the blackening of the base gasket, I'd guess an air leak through...

I hate to agree with @MxAddic but the small end looks burnt, overheated, from the blackening of the base gasket, I'd guess an air leak through the base gasket, causing it to run lean.

image-20231130093628-1

That sounds logical, but if you go back to page 1 and look at the other photos; the piston crown and combustion chamber don’t support your lean theory.

1
11/29/2023 10:35pm
I hate to agree with @MxAddic but the small end looks burnt, overheated, from the blackening of the base gasket, I'd guess an air leak through...

I hate to agree with @MxAddic but the small end looks burnt, overheated, from the blackening of the base gasket, I'd guess an air leak through the base gasket, causing it to run lean.

image-20231130093628-1

CPR wrote:
That sounds logical, but if you go back to page 1 and look at the other photos; the piston crown and combustion chamber don’t support your...

That sounds logical, but if you go back to page 1 and look at the other photos; the piston crown and combustion chamber don’t support your lean theory.

Good point, plug, top of piston would be white, maybe no premix in the fuel.

2
MxAddic
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11/29/2023 11:03pm Edited Date/Time 11/29/2023 11:09pm

Good point, plug, top of piston would be white, maybe no premix in the fuel.

At some point in is life, option 1. I would not call the OP a liar if he said no. Option 2 would be run low/out of coolant previously. There are couple more with decreasing odds.

Don’t really matter, poor guys engine is toast.

2
edot504_
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Ridgecrest , CA US
11/30/2023 1:22am
I hate to agree with @MxAddic but the small end looks burnt, overheated, from the blackening of the base gasket, I'd guess an air leak through...

I hate to agree with @MxAddic but the small end looks burnt, overheated, from the blackening of the base gasket, I'd guess an air leak through the base gasket, causing it to run lean.

image-20231130093628-1

CPR wrote:
That sounds logical, but if you go back to page 1 and look at the other photos; the piston crown and combustion chamber don’t support your...

That sounds logical, but if you go back to page 1 and look at the other photos; the piston crown and combustion chamber don’t support your lean theory.

Good point, plug, top of piston would be white, maybe no premix in the fuel.

Definitely had premix, I only know this is for sure because we used the rest of it when we mixed gas for DITD when it happened 😂

3
edot504_
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Ridgecrest , CA US
11/30/2023 1:24am

Good point, plug, top of piston would be white, maybe no premix in the fuel.

MxAddic wrote:
At some point in is life, option 1. I would not call the OP a liar if he said no. Option 2 would be run low/out...

At some point in is life, option 1. I would not call the OP a liar if he said no. Option 2 would be run low/out of coolant previously. There are couple more with decreasing odds.

Don’t really matter, poor guys engine is toast.

Engine is 100% toast, running total for parts so far is at 4k and we haven’t even checked past the rod

2

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