Posts
392
Joined
8/4/2023
Location
HTown, TX, USA
Edited Date/Time
11/5/2023 8:12pm
Just wanted to see opinions and what my actual results will be. I find the 300 fork a little dead feeling with its Ohlins hybrid set up, but it works well. It's just that I got to thinking about my 200SX KYB set up with a FC re-valve. It just might be what the 300 needs and the spring rate is right. Same goes for the WP set up for the 200. It might feel better planted.
Swapping clamps came to mind also, as cast may benefit the '24 chassis and billet benefit the '06 chassis of my 200.
Anywho, it's vital and if you're bored, bring on your input.
I've done this on a 2013.
Shimming or boring your stock trees isn't the problem. If you want to use your KYB fork and retain your brembo brake, that is where the challenge is. Keep in mind I have no clue if there are any solutions for the brake hanger today, but I had to modify the brembo brake hanger to fit the stock yamaha lug and make custom spacers to fit the KTM wheel to the yamaha axle.
Was it worth it, absolutely.
Clayton at Trick Engineering bored my clamps, highly recommend. Hell, he might have a brake hanger solution as well by now.
Hit the tracks. The swap was beneficial to both bikes, it seems.
The 300/KYB with cast 20mm off-set triples. No more dead feel and it flies level now. Stable and the front still sticks. Nissin brake is less sensitive and power was fine.
The 200/WP hybrid with billet 22mm off-set triples. I only had to place a 2-3mm spacer under the upper triple. So, no more dead feel, but the spring rate is now correct on the lighter bike. At the recommended air pressure, it's fantastic.
You can put the wp uppers on the kyb forks so you don’t have to do anything to the clamps. That’s what I do. I’m using a ktm front wheel with spacers shaved down (like mentioned above) and using the brembo brake. To use the brembo I used an oversized rotor hanger for a ktm (luxon was supposed to make hangers for the conversion but totally bailed on it). Had to re drill bottom bolt hole. I’ll post photo of it after work today.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Free shipping: VITALMX
If you look up Vital member cwtoyota, he makes a relatively inexpensive conversion for the KYB internals to drop into the WP outers.
So did the KYB lowers (sliders) slide right into the WP uppers? If so that's a great solution and easy to do. Just make sure the over all length is the same.
Luxon should make that brake handger to mount the Brembo unit on the KYB lowers.
That's a brilliant tip for sure.
In my unique scenario with what was on hand, I was curious about specific things and did get the improvements I wanted. Can't say that I am even able to detect the different in triple stiffness. BTW, the less aggressive Nissin brake feel works for me.
The only snag was that the '23 upper triple uses a thicker seal cover under it. My spacer solution is simple and close enough to factory for me.
In the end, it appears a corrected spring rate resolved the dead feel, as the Coppersmith hybrid solution on the lighter 200 performs equal to the KYB's. I'm sure I'll reverse the swap upon the first fork servicing.
I am very, very close to putting my kits up for sale.
My kits will drop into the 2021+ XACT forks without removing the lugs and without modifying anything on your bike. You'll supply your own cartridges and springs from the donor bike of your choice. Since nothing requires modification, you can revert your bike to stock WP when you sell it.
Technically, you can install the KYB stuff with the forks and front wheel still installed on the motorcycle by removing the handlebar. The best way will be to remove both fork legs, then do a traditional fork service, but replace the WP internals with the drop in conversion parts and your choice of almost any available KYB AOSS or SSS internals.
I want to be 100% ready on my end before I accept orders...
The business (LLC) is up and running and I have a website / online-storefront in the works.
An initial production run is complete, boxes and packing materials are here. The physical parts are ready to go.
I bought a '23 GasGas MC350F and used it to film the installation instruction video.
The 350 is great. I'll keep it and race it in 40+ next year.
That's awesome, nice work man 👍
Will keep an eye out for when the time comes.
https://ride-engineering.com/new-wp-aer-lug-conversion-kit-for-kyb-fork-internals.html
Ride Engineering makes a conversion kit also.
Hmm that's a similar concept but his kit is easier than that ride one. That ride one looks like you still have to drill something why it has that drill bit included.
Cwtoyota's kit you don't have to do that. Your not modifying anything in that way. Plus his kit works with a wider range of kyb internals.
The ride kit says '16 - 20 kyb internals probably can include up to 23 now. With cwtoyota's kit you can go back to 09 to 23.
I'm using '15 yz250f internals in my forks. His kit is more versatile than the ride one.
We didn't bail on it, it's still on the to-do list. But that list is long and we need to focus on the core business portions first (clamps, bar mounts, etc.).
Club MX was interested as well, but they moved to Motomaster calipers and no longer had a need, so that removed some of the motivation. It's still something we want to do, we just can't hold up everything else to do so.
I have never held Ride Engineering's parts in my hand, nor have I ever worked on them...
In my understanding, the step-bit is included in Ride's kit to drill out the fork lugs so that the OEM KYB rebound adjusters will fit. I believe you are also required to remove and reinstall both fork lugs to install their bottoming cups.
My kit will cost a little more, but it will require less labor, no special tools and the stock parts can be re-installed since nothing has to be cut, drilled or modified.
I will include some cartridge compatibility information on my website when it's ready. There are two different fork cartridge lengths available from Yamaha and Kawasaki and three different fork spring lengths. I have a few different configurations to make these various combos work without messing up your chassis geometry.
A note for the guys in this thread using KYB lower tubes, the Yamaha KYB stuff uses a 32mm fork lug offset. From memory the KTM / WP forks on our later model bikes all use a 35mm fork lug offset. So switching to the Yamaha KYB lower tube is effectively the same as going from a 22mm triple clamp to a 20mm triple clamp. Some guys like the feel of less offset, others hate it and some can't feel the difference.
exciting! i have extra kyb forks so i will be buying one of your kits. what will the website be?
THanks
As CW mentioned about the lug off-set. My old cast triples are @20mm and the billet @22mm. Cast and KYB legs keep the '24 as stock and the same goes for the '06 with billet and WP legs. Feel right into my plan.
I'll write up a post with all the details when I get the site finished.
CW, a buddy wants to know if he will be able to convert a KYB leg over to aer? He wants to make two bikes have the hybrid set up. He has a KYB fork and just acquired a KTM. Thanks
Pit Row
My parts are specific to installing KYB cartridges and springs in the WP XACT 48mm forks on 2021 and later KTM, GasGas and Husqvarna full size motocross models. They would also work for off-road models that use the same XACT 48mm air fork.
Since these parts are specifically designed for the 2021 and later WP/KTM fork lug, they won't fit the KYB fork tube or fork lug.
Going the other direction (installing the pneumatic spring from the WP/KTM inside the KYB fork lug) would require a good amount of work on the KYB lower fork leg. The KYB uses a smaller diameter bottoming cup and a larger diameter rebound adjuster. The WP pneumatic spring cartridge would interfere with the KYB bottoming cup, so that needs to be replaced which requires removing the fork lug. It's not something I currently have time to do, but perhaps in the future.
One way to potentially get a hybrid KYB fork would be to buy a set of PSF-1 from a 2013 Kawasaki KX450F and use those components in a YZ SSS or KX AOSS fork, or if it's a kawasaki, simply run one PSF-1 fork leg and one SSS/AOSS fork leg on the bike. Kawi uses a 33mm lug offset, Yamaha uses 32mm... Also, the upper tube diameters vary and fork lengths vary...
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/easier-kyb-spring-conversio…
https://dialedmfg.com/
What did you have to do to the spacers? I'd hate to loose the ability to use my backup wheels
The distance between the fork tubes (left to right) is different on the KTM vs the YZ with SSS.
With the YZ fork lugs on the KTM triple clamp center distance, your YZ spacers (seal collars) are too long to center up the wheel between the lugs.
The axle nut on a YZ pulls the left wheel spacer and bearings tight up against that left (brake side) fork lug. At a minimum you need that side to be corrected. It's only a millimeter difference. There's enough float in the front brake caliper to take up that difference.
The two fork center distances are 190mm vs 192mm.
KTM & YZ (2002 - 2005) 190mm
YZ SSS (2006 - current) 192mm
It’s been 17 months since you said you would do it, and it’s been 14 months since you said you’d have a yz in your shop stating it would be 3 weeks till you had some done.
Them Luxon trips would be noice, but for Htown soft tracks, I caynt notice the swapping of '06 cast onto my '24 300SX and '24 billet awn muh old 200SX!
Thanks for keeping track! Sorry you're disappointed, but we have to do what we have to do and the lower priority items have to get shuffled around some. This is one of those.
I'd recommend you look into this instead:
https://www.moto-master.com/mxc-caliper-factory-edition/
Post a reply to: '24 300SX with '17 YZ250F front end? Thoughts