Is the goal to develop skills or just go faster?

250 cross
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Belding, MI, USA

Should they make bikes so easy to ride that it requires little basic skills? Should tracks be groomed smooth? Starting to really wonder what the most common goal is for todays riders.

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Village Idiot
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10/21/2023 8:33am
250 cross wrote:
Should they make bikes so easy to ride that it requires little basic skills? Should tracks be groomed smooth? Starting to really wonder what the most...

Should they make bikes so easy to ride that it requires little basic skills? Should tracks be groomed smooth? Starting to really wonder what the most common goal is for todays riders.

Apparently, there is a significant percentage of the market that wants the experience to be as close to that of an amusement park ride or monorail as possible. Less skill, more speed and just along for the ride. Just a shortcut to the end goal: faster.

Some say it's safer to not need to shift, clutch and such, but I'd point to quads and sit-down jet-skis and say, "really? How'd that work out for them?".

That's part of the beauty of the 125 class - if you messed up anything, it was immediately apparent. It made the racing more exciting because it rewarded the skills honed from lots of practice and separated those riders from the lesser skilled. Who didn't love watching Bubba shred on that KX?

When something requires less skill, then by design it provides less opportunities for mistakes and less variability in the racing.

So no, I'm in favor of more skill being required to "go fast", but that probably isn't the opinion held by much (most?) of the market.

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ElliotB16
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10/21/2023 8:42am

Go faster than the guy next to you 

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RACING
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10/21/2023 8:47am
250 cross wrote:
Should they make bikes so easy to ride that it requires little basic skills? Should tracks be groomed smooth? Starting to really wonder what the most...

Should they make bikes so easy to ride that it requires little basic skills? Should tracks be groomed smooth? Starting to really wonder what the most common goal is for todays riders.

Apparently, there is a significant percentage of the market that wants the experience to be as close to that of an amusement park ride or monorail...

Apparently, there is a significant percentage of the market that wants the experience to be as close to that of an amusement park ride or monorail as possible. Less skill, more speed and just along for the ride. Just a shortcut to the end goal: faster.

Some say it's safer to not need to shift, clutch and such, but I'd point to quads and sit-down jet-skis and say, "really? How'd that work out for them?".

That's part of the beauty of the 125 class - if you messed up anything, it was immediately apparent. It made the racing more exciting because it rewarded the skills honed from lots of practice and separated those riders from the lesser skilled. Who didn't love watching Bubba shred on that KX?

When something requires less skill, then by design it provides less opportunities for mistakes and less variability in the racing.

So no, I'm in favor of more skill being required to "go fast", but that probably isn't the opinion held by much (most?) of the market.

More power, less skills, what could go wrong?

Laughing

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Village Idiot
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10/21/2023 8:53am
RACING wrote:
More power, less skills, what could go wrong?

More power, less skills, what could go wrong?

Laughing

Absolutely nothing... right? Cool

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The Shop

10/21/2023 9:16am

I think that most racers want  to be the best rider skill wise that they can be, and have the fastest , easiest to ride bike on Raceday so that they can perform to the highest levels.   

Long travel , single shocks,   there goes another skill of being the bikes suspension.

Similar things can be said about Disc brakes, watercooling, EFI, hydraulic clutches, 4 strokes and  everybody has a nervous breakdown if they have to kick start a bike.   

 

Do any of You guys really think that a Varg is going to be magic and only require  You to sit on it and twist the throttle to go fast? No bike ,no matter how good is going to turn a Vet C class rider into Jett Lawrence.   It might help You beat a guy that has a little more skill, or similar skill. And allow You to focus more on the other aspects of riding.    

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kxking
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Fantasy
10/21/2023 9:25am

Isn't the most important part about going fast in Moto the suspension? 

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lumpy790
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10/21/2023 10:45am

All = lower lap times ….. however some riders lap times will always be lower than others.

 

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yz133rider
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10/21/2023 10:57am

For me I think it’s to feel that feeling of getting it right. Or just feel like you’re railing. That shot in the arm high of a dopamine hit of shredding on the bike.

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Richy
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10/21/2023 10:59am

As far as tracks go, it's not tracks being left naturally 'rough' or groomed smooth, I'm fine with either, for me it's a depth issue. I don't want it tilled half way to China so that by lunch time there are peg deep ruts that have baked hard... That sucks in my unskilled opinion.

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MxAddic
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10/21/2023 11:07am Edited Date/Time 10/21/2023 11:19am
I think that most racers want  to be the best rider skill wise that they can be, and have the fastest , easiest to ride bike...

I think that most racers want  to be the best rider skill wise that they can be, and have the fastest , easiest to ride bike on Raceday so that they can perform to the highest levels.   

Long travel , single shocks,   there goes another skill of being the bikes suspension.

Similar things can be said about Disc brakes, watercooling, EFI, hydraulic clutches, 4 strokes and  everybody has a nervous breakdown if they have to kick start a bike.   

 

Do any of You guys really think that a Varg is going to be magic and only require  You to sit on it and twist the throttle to go fast? No bike ,no matter how good is going to turn a Vet C class rider into Jett Lawrence.   It might help You beat a guy that has a little more skill, or similar skill. And allow You to focus more on the other aspects of riding.    

This is the exact mentality the OP is talking about. Bike skills have nothing to do with suspension.

zehn
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Anchorage, AK, USA
10/21/2023 11:26am

The goal is to have fun. Live and let live, life is a lot easier that way

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10/21/2023 11:30am

The simple answer is FUN!  99% of dirtbike owners don’t race. Dirtbikes should be reliable and easy to ride. Those two things make riding fun!  When I get to ride twice a month I want my experience to be fun and enjoyable. I’m not too concerned with shaving seconds off of my lap time.
 

With that said I like a smooth morning track and I also like the challenge of a beat up track in the afternoon. 

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Old Mate
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10/21/2023 11:37am

You can’t win a freestyle race doing dog paddle no matter how hard you try.

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Beagle
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Toulouse, FR
10/21/2023 12:17pm

Well, to me it's neither one nor the other. Unless you're a pro (or still dreaming about turning pro), the goal is to have fun.

Easier bikes means more people having more fun riding dirtbikes. Seems pretty good for the sport.

Some like minibikes, some like 2 strokes, 4 strokes, electrics, whatever, also most riders are not tribal and just enjoy riding bikes, one thing we all have in common is that riding a bike is how we choose to spend our leisure time.

Sure honing your skills, at your own level, is part of the fun, but it does not mean you need the highest skills to get the more fun out of it.

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Motoxdoc
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10/21/2023 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 10/21/2023 1:11pm
250 cross wrote:
Should they make bikes so easy to ride that it requires little basic skills? Should tracks be groomed smooth? Starting to really wonder what the most...

Should they make bikes so easy to ride that it requires little basic skills? Should tracks be groomed smooth? Starting to really wonder what the most common goal is for todays riders.

it sounds like you are posing a bike builder and track builder question, to riders. 
Bike builders and track groomers want to make the easiest product for the most amount of people to ride.

riders just want to have as much fun as possible. For some that’s going fast, for others that’s greasing a double and yet for others, it’s just going through the gears and moving along with wind blowing in your hair.

There are many goals, not just one. 

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AJ565
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San Antonio, TX, USA
10/21/2023 4:58pm

I think the common goal is to go faster which comes with developing skills. You can’t teach speed, but learning the proper skills speed comes as a byproduct. 

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geeZ177
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Western NY area, NY, USA
10/22/2023 4:42am
Richy wrote:
As far as tracks go, it's not tracks being left naturally 'rough' or groomed smooth, I'm fine with either, for me it's a depth issue. I...

As far as tracks go, it's not tracks being left naturally 'rough' or groomed smooth, I'm fine with either, for me it's a depth issue. I don't want it tilled half way to China so that by lunch time there are peg deep ruts that have baked hard... That sucks in my unskilled opinion.

It's also unsafe for most people's skill set, when the ruts are that deep and dry. Deep and kept wet is one thing, but once it drys out, game over. And yes....that's what she said, lol.

10/22/2023 5:04am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2023 5:04am

the primary goal is is anodized triples. secondary is the perfectly bled front brake and tertiary has always been that perfect parking spot for the pickup that is close to registration but also allows for an easy dip to the restrooms. 

 

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rf928
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CA
10/22/2023 6:13am

I want smooth tracks. Racing is better when it’s easier for everyone. I’m not here to watch the best of the best beat the field by 30+. I want a bar to bar battle down to the wire, and making it easier for everyone works awesome. Just ask the socialists. 

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