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Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
Anyone have information on these demo days? Trying to swing a leg over this thing.
If believing everything they say regardless of accuracy leads to a happier life for you then by all means continue on, if I told you all day every day how right I am about everything and how superior I am to all others you'd probably believe me eventually as well. When you're truly legitimate in everything that you say you generally don't have to keep reminding people of how legitimate you are, history will speak for itself.
"but they cannot complete 30 min+2 laps in AMA"
Manufacturers control the AMA, they won't let Stark race to protect their market, it will be funny watching the AMA's spin to defend this position!
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My boss put a deposit on one a few weeks ago. They told him Feb 2024 delivery for what that's worth. If and when he gets it I will let you guys know, can't wait to ride that sucker.
Seen one in person today at my local shop… pretty dam impressive looking… they have all ridden it, and say it’s awesome…when they become readily available and the parts network is established , I will buy one for sure….
I just logged on to my Stark account to see if there were any changes, the other day it had my delivery in November. It is now stating February... I'm glad I don't care when I get it but I'd be pissed if I really wanted one.
Just locate a dealer close to you on Starkfuture.com and ask them about it.
From what I've seen on social networks at some dealers you need to call or contact them to book a ride, some organise specific demo days (often along most 2024 MX models), some don't want anyone to ride it and it just stupidly stays idle for display.
Gotta say at the moment the Stark dealer's network seems to vary greatly depending on the country, for instance in France we have 18, about the same as in Australia, there's a dozen dealers in Sweden whereas in Spain (where they build the bike) they only have 2, 6 in the UK and over 120 in the US.
If it is actually true that these won't do 30mins + 2 , then the AMA don't need to do anything to protect anyone.
Why would anyone race a bike that probably would not finish a race ?
If it's true , I am sure Stark wouldn't want to embarrass themselves with a flat battery, overheating etc.
And the other manufacturers would say - as you can see , electric is not ready yet.
If it truly isn't capable of 30m + 2 ( no one seems to know for certain, but it looks that way) then you won't see one in this type of race, but they will start appearing in races they are capable of finishing, in different places around the would ( where allowed by local rules)
Another problem for the rule makers is how do you work out an equivalent to capacity of engines in classes.
For an Open class this isn't needed, but for 450, 250 classes, is this electric motor equivalent to a much larger engine, say a 650cc ?
This was the problem years ago with rotary engines , different people had different ideas on how the capacity should be measured.
We will never know if the Stark would finish an AMA Pro Motocross race 30 min + 2 laps, it will never be allowed to race an AMA Pro Motocross, the AMA Board of Directors control the rules, the board of directors is made up of representatives from the OEM business members...
Rode the piss out of one last week. They're phenomenal, and whatever your wait has been let me tell you it's worth it.
I think what Sandman said is a common sense approach, kinda what I thought. I want to make sure parts and service are in place. I’ll use outboard motors as an example. Few years back mercury came out with a really cool high performance 4 stroke outboard. Lots of guy ditched their two strokes. Mercury ran into parts issues and many of them set for months waiting simple parts, shift switches etc. I don’t want to be one of the guys having a really cool e-bike and can’t ride it because a sensor that failed and no parts network in place. Companies put manufacturing over spare parts in most cases.
That is an amazingly logical approach to this new bike and being smart about when to pull the trigger. I hope the guys jumping up and down for this new bike have not sold their ICE engine bikes (even if just as a backup), nobody honestly knows at this point what part and service availability is going to be now, or long-term.
I will likely wait until KTM, Honda, etc. have their own versions before I cross this bridge. As much hype as there is for Stark, there was also hype for Alta and these bikes are too expensive nowadays to gamble.
"I will likely wait until KTM, Honda, etc. have their own versions before I cross this bridge. As much hype as there is for Stark, there was also hype for Alta and these bikes are too expensive nowadays to gamble."
This is exactly where I'm at. I'll wait for an established company to produce one before taking the plunge. The Japanese and Austrian manufacturers won't be going anywhere. Stark is still very much an unknown (not pooping on them, just being cautious).
These reasons are likely why Stark is putting more focus into their dealer network. That way they have parts and people who can work on the bikes in place in a wide area. They know where pre orders came from, does anybody know if the dealers that are getting bikes first are in areas that had a higher number of pre orders made? It would make sense on many levels.
I hope that Stark is able to get their bikes into some AMA pro racing. even if its just on a trial basis like the French Arenacross races. Then they could experiment with different levels of power, etc. and give the AMA some data to help them figure out how to write the rules. And maybe have a more level set of rules than the 2 stroke to 4 stroke rules. We know that Honda has an electric MX bike in the works, Kawasaki has committed to being all electric by a certain date, so they must also be working on bikes. This would be the time to figure out the rules . As the bikes are still being developed, and not just let the manufacturers decide like they did with 4 strokes.
How do manufacturers join the AMA board? Is it based on a level of production? Do they just pay a fee? I can see reasons that they would not want a Varg to be allowed to race, but also reasons why they would want to let one in. At some point there has to be an electric MX bike allowed to race , if that is the way the manufacturers intend on going. They could use info from a Varg racing in developing their own bikes.
Dumgeon
The Varg is already getting great results in France SX, Arenacross UK, Austrian Super Enduro...
Next season there will be much more of them in national competitions, at one point, maybe a couple of years from now, AMA will need to work it out or they'll be the only championship excluding them which will not make for great publicity.
Next month there will already be more Vargs than Altas out there in the world, we know Stark at the moment has an international distribution network about 200 dealers, genuine question: how many Alta dealers were there and were there just in America or around the world ?
I would like to see an E class as popularity grows. I think we all get way too consumed defending the us vs. them with the assumption they will be racing in the same class with our current production ICE bikes when that probably won't be a reality on a pro level (IMO). Just like what F1 has done with the Formula-E class, it will be its own class of racing. That, I know creates a conflict for AMA and promoters for broadcasts adding a class like that, but I am sure that can be ironed out as popularity for E-bike racing grows.
Pit Row
They should be excluded and run their own class. Exactly like Motogp has his own electric class and also the FIA in car racing with Formula E so the fans have the oppertunity to go get food and drinks because they couldn’t care less for the electric class to begin with. It’s fine it exists, there is market for it but stop ramming it trough people’s troat with the main goal to replace what we have now.
I've said this before many times. Back in Ada, Oklahoma, I had a six grade country as hen sh......t school teacher Mr. Lynch. He said, Bill don't believe anything ya hear and half of what you see. I've never forgot it and may be the best advice I've been given.
The main goal of Stark is to develop the fastest bike around a track, which is exactly the point of racing.
MotoE and FormulaE don't race with MotoGP and Formula1, respectively, because they would be ridiculous at their current performance level. That's why separate class makes perfect sense, to develop technology in a competitive and controlled environment. Ducati MotoE is a piece of art but absolutely no match for the Desmosedici, that's the way it is right now, and it will stay that way for quite some time.
Separate class for the Varg makes absolutely no sense whatsoever: they are already on par with ICE bikes, it's too late for that. Let's say they keep running similar laptimes than ICE, with podiums, fastest lap and whatnot, as is already the case, and never get better than that, what's the point of splitting the field into two evenly matched classes?
Even "worse", imagine if in a couple of years they get marginally better and start smoking the competition, what would happen? The fastest class would become the electric series, where do you think all the top pro riders would go? Pro riders are addicted to speed and winning, not to fossil fuels, there is no way they would contemplate racing in second class.
I just don't see a scenario where separate classes make sense. Then if the races are too long for ebikes they just don't compete in this particular series and that's it.
The big difference I see is that the Varg was designed to be a head on competitor for a gas 450. And in those examples of E racing people give, the vehicles are not as fast or able to compete with the premiere versions. It would be like if the Formula E cars were turning faster lap times than the F1 cars.
What if they never let 4 strokes compete against 2 strokes? Would the AMA series be what it is today? Assuming that manufacturers want to make a bike like the Varg, they will want to race it at the highest levels. If Kawasaki is going to stop making gas bikes by a certain year, how do they convince people that the bikes are any good? How do they convince people to trade in their KX450 for a KXE45 or whatever they call it. Race them head to head. Show people the electric will outperform the gas bikes.
When Yamaha came out with the YZ400 , how many 4 stroke Nationals did they race?
I'm not looking at it as anybody VS somebody, I'm looking at it as the next evolution of racing. Perhaps they will have a seperate ICE bike nationals that springs up. But why make a new class for single shock MX bikes? Or fuel injected? If Electric is the next evolution , let them compete. And if they do not outperform the gas bikes, then maybe a support class or some form of an Electric class could form. But I really see electric as the next disc brake, single shock , long travel, fuel injection, 4 stroke evolution.
A close friend of mine here in Europe got a call with a demand of immediate payment of the full sum of the Varg with a payment due in only a couple of days from the phone call this week.
Before he had been told that he only needed to pay 20% up front and then the rest of the bike when it was delivered. Safe to say the call came as a bit of a chock.
He pre ordered the bike immediately when Stark made it possible a few years back but from an independent dealer so I'm not sure if it's just the dealer being unable to plan ahead.
Delivery date estimated "around November 2023"...
I am not going to get into a debate with you because your have made your love of the Stark bike highly obvious. I will stand by my sentiments that as this evolves, it will have its own class (I don't care if I am wrong). And to say they built the bike to compete with the current ICE bikes is a joke.. What is the peak HP difference? (you don't have to tell me, I already know) Don't tell me it is tunable, I know. But it was not built directly to compete in the 450CC MX class.
I will have one (not Stark) and so will everybody else eventually, that is a given. But back to my point (especially on a professional level), I believe they will have a class, just like 85s, 250s, and just like 450s. They are way too different to be classed together regardless of de-tuning the ESC.
I posted a video a page or so back of a first ride and the one stark broke. Those guys also did a video before that and its not looking like these things will do a full outdoor moto. After reading on here about battery performance I was sort of shocked with that video and let down on battery performance.
I was in business for a very long time. Dealt in multimillion dollar contract of all kinds. Asking for 100% payment with no proof of milestones is asking a lot and serious risk of you ask this simple minded cowboy. It should have been something like, 10 down, 20% start of assembly, 60% at completion of assembly/testing and remainder at shipping. I ain’t giving nobody 14k and bet on the come.
Great way to slow production to a halt. In an installment series financing scheme, like in construction, this makes total sense.
In this context, at this scale, it makes zero sense. This just introduces tons of delays in the production process.
I think the timing of the full payment vs. when they actually start constructing the bike is wrong right now. If you pay in full, construction of your bike should begin within two weeks at the latest, ideally. The several month wait period is a little ridiculous, especially when they aren’t making a public statement about what’s going on, reps aren’t responding to requests for information, etc
I can understand the hesitation , and not wanting to pay in full for a bike before its built. BUT that was the agreement that everybody who preordered a Varg made. Maybe they would have sold more if they did it Your way.
The thing that is an issue is the people who paid in full and have not gotten their bikes yet. I feel like if demo bikes were not showing up at dealers those people might not be as mad. But either way, it really doesn't seem like splitting the paying up would help anybody get a bike any faster.
They have said that they designed the bike to outperform a 450. So I guess You are right. But its just like Yamaha designing the YZ400 to outperform the 250 2 stroke. And the big gap in power and torque exists between 2 strokes and 4 strokes. The style of power delivery of electric is a progression of the difference of the 2 stroke to 4 stroke.
It is not the Varg I am in love with. It is the ceiling of performance I see from electric MX bikes that I am in love with. I like what they are doing with the Varg. But really it is just the beginning of what I could see being possible. And racing them together with gas bikes will help both evolve. Like the recent 2 stroke updates. If You do not allow them in the same class, and they are such an advantage, then I could see gas bikes die off. And I do not want there to be a world without 2 stroke MX bikes.
If Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki had not been open about working on electric bikes themselves. And the Varg was a standalone bike that nobody intended to compete with. I could see it not being integrated into the current class structure. But like everybody knows. The manufactures have a hand in making the rules, so They will do what they think will help them sell the most motorcycles.
"How do manufacturers join the AMA board? Is it based on a level of production? Do they just pay a fee?"
They need to have a corporate headquarters in the USA, and pay a fee for business membership, before they are eligible for a seat on the board of directors...
Stark Future doesn't have corporate headquarters in the USA, so is not eligible for business membership.
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