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9/5/2021
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Question for those riding the new generation frame like the 2023 KTM. Has anyone found issues with the "Anit squat" feature build into the new engine/frame? I love the power of the new bikes but myself and few others have been noticing a difference vs the older generation bikes. From what I can figure out the bike does not squat under throttle like my older bikes did. This seems very evident in turns. I have many mods now on the bike and am trying to dial in the feel. So far, I have split clamps, carbon fiber engine mounts, floating axle blocks, rocks bar clamps, pro taper carbon bars, cone valve forks, trax shock, and PR2 full linkage. The linkage seems to help the most so far.
That’s a good bit of work, are you A class or pro level? Personally I would not be able to tell the difference with a single thing you listed much less all of them.
How many hours are on it? It’s been pretty well documented the new gen bike frames need a lot of time to break in. 10-12 hours I believe? If that’s not the issue I think if I threw that kind of money into a bike and it still wasn’t suitable for my riding style I would try selling it and have bought a different bike.
Have you messed with the high speed on the shock? Maybe soften that up some and it’ll “squat” a little more but I’ve been told the new gen frame is a stiff one and finicky to setup.
15hrs now. Several of us are looking at the option of other bikes now. lol
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Yeah, I have a trax shock with a 4.8 spring. What I have done now is go full soft and work my way up. The linkage also softens up the initial hit. It still does not seem to squat though. The bike comes with a 4.5 spring but all the suspension shops claim that is too light for 185lbs. I will be testing again this week at a different track to see what comes of the changes.
All of those parts affect the handling. Mods are not always beneficial. Try hitting the reset button and revert back to the oem parts (except for suspension). 15 hours is not much riding.
I started with only cone valve forks. None of the mods have made it worse really other than maybe the trax shock because the spring might had been too stiff. I have the luxury of testing two bikes side by side as I have both the KTM 350 and FC 350. Example: I had one bike with the linkage and one without.
when stock which difference do you feel between the FC and SXF ?
When mostly stock other than CV forks on both the only difference was the power and the turning ability. The FC had more mellow hit on the bottom and it turned better. The SXF was noticeably taller and had a stronger hit on the bottom.
Whatever you do, don't ride it back to back against your previously well set-up 2019-2022! I did that (sold my 2019 to a friend, rode it back to back, and loved my old bike better). I ended up going Red. As a vet rider the new KTM feels heavier and more top-heavy than the previous models.
What exactly are you wanting to change?
By making the rear softer/squatting it is kicking out the front end’s steering angle so it does not turn as sharp.
Yeah, I would say that is good advice. It does feel heavy. I tell people it feels much more like a 450 on the track. Both of my bikes are 23 models, so I am comparing apples to apples.
It feels like because the lack of squat the rear is not compressing in the turn. Some even think once you come on the throttle it might be raising up a bit. The older gen bike would compress or squat under load in the turn and these new bikes do not seem to do that even a bit. It is throwing me off in the turns and that is the area I am chasing. The older bikes seem to get the power down to the ground better is the end result maybe.
I am just reading words here and I am Not digging at you or your riding ability but it sounds like on the new frame you might be not hitting turns as hard as you did on old frame? Charging harder and hitting it harder/faster might get what you are searching for?
Handling is a tough thing to attack with tons of variables. Body position? Attack position? Clutching? Arm positions?
I am old school with basics and now in my 60s I am not hitting turns as hard as I did when younger and attended Gary Baileys schools and learning how to charge harder and hitting turns even harder was a lot of what he taught us at his schools.
As for bike set up the 1st thing I would try is swapping back and forth between shock linkage. Should be pretty easy to swap and ride in same track conditions on the same day and trying different sag numbers.
Yes, it is true I am not able to hit the turns as hard as I did last year as I do not feel as comfortable. The old bikes seem to have that comfort in the turns and would settle into the turn and hold it. The new bikes so far have not done that as of yet, but I am searching. Yes, like you said I am being very mindful of my body position, seat cover, and everything that would make me feel good going into the turns. The new linkage has helped a bit to be sure, but now it is a matter of maybe the right combination of valving or spring rate. The old bikes were not this temperamental. lol I am not one to give up though!
I've got a 23 sxf 450 and I was amazed how stiff and unfriendly the bike is after coming off a 2020.5 fc450 that was so well setup and was as comfy as an old pair of sneakers.
A few notes, the mags are very right about these 23s being stiff and breaking in... I found myself all over the place going in an out onbclickers... every weekend the bike seemed to change.
I am 6'1" and was at least 260-270 lbs when I bought it, so the older gen I always added big back spring 57N lol and compression damping shims. Now I am on new gen, shock seemed fine and I am down to 230lbs and fitted a softer 51N spring. My front brake broke so I rode the 2020.5 fc450 today, also now with 51N spring and was amazed at the difference, especially cornering. The 23 seems like a big, tall unwieldy bike with abrupt herky jerky power. Going from 51 to 50 back sprocket made it much better and I'll try 49 next.... also, pulling the wheel back gives the swing arm more leverage and shifts CoG closer to the front.
I see the 350 comes with a massive 52 sprocket, if it's the same chain length as 450, maybe you could try a longer chain???
I am not that good, but riding long enough to notice the difference with that wheelbase change. Plus, I am determined to dial the suspension and setup on the 23. I've bought the 6500 kit after running air since 2015.
To date, the best mod I've done is removing 40lbs that sits on top of the bike and having fun dialing it in.
Yeah, I think you are spot on with your comments. Even though the bikes are not bigger they feel big especially in the corners. I am changing up the sprockets as well trying everything in the book!
You'll get it dialed dude, just keep an open mind, take measurements and be objective....its amazing how the bike changes after 10 to 15 hours. What tracks are near Tahoe? I rode with Bay OTHG and sometimes hear of guys from out east riding our tracks.
Pit Row
Yeah, I am hell bent on getting it right. Thanks. In Tahoe we ride Norcal tracks like Riverfront, Estreet, Hangtown, and MMX. There are other tracks around like near Reno and South Lake Sand Pits. I also live up in WA near Washougal so we ride up here all summer.
Nice job on the weight loss
Cool, those tracks are 2 hours for me, so don't get there as often as Argyll and club moto 10 mins down the street for me.
I know several dudes with 23 sxf350 and they all say they keep getting better and better... you'll crack it.
All my 23 FC350 has is valved KYB forks, an ECU, Revalved stock rear shock, FMF slip on, and WC axle blocks and I personally love this bike more then my 22. Maybe look into a different suspension guy...sounds like your settings might be off. I see your are in Washington...hit up EVO Industries out there. I just hit 14 hours on mine this weekend and with the mods I have done, I'm more confident then I ever was on my 22.
Thanks, already crossed that river. I have one set of suspension from Powerband, One from AEO, and one from Pro Motion. My friend has his from Enzo. So far, the set that feels the best on the bike is from Powerband because it is softer. I will know more on Wednesday as I will test again if it does not rain.
I had 130hrs on my 21 350 and now 26 on my 23 350. I had trouble getting traction to the rear tire on exits of turns. All I did was buy a luxon adjustable pull rod and went 1mm longer, aswell as run the sag at 106. Definitely more confident on my 23, the bike is great. I've noticed suspension companies have really fast rebound baseline settings . I'm at 9 out on rebound on the stock shock valving. Any aftermarket suspension I've rode has a fck ton of fast rebound making the bike super active. Which would also keep you higher in the stroke. Trying going in on rebound and out on lsc on the shock aswell.
I did ride the FC 350 yesterday and was able to test and find some comfort at the end of the night. I have gone very soft on my trax shock (4.8 spring) and I went stiffer on my CV forks (4.8 spring). I have the RE 23.5 Split clamps and that certainly changes the feel of the bike. It gives you more room by making it feel longer. I will say that it did oversteer some, but I can control that with the steering damper. The high-speed control was very good though. Overall, I was able to push the bike vs before I could not. The track was mid to hard but not blue grooved. As it stands right now I feel the rear still could use some squat as I do not feel it is dropping in the corners. I will try the stock shock that has the 4.5 spring on it and I ordered a lighter spring for the Trax to give it a try as well.
Try going out on lsc. Buy the adjustable luxon pullrod, and lower that mf. It's a subtle change but makes all the difference.
I have the PR2 full linkage and to be honest that might be the best mod on the bike. Being the Husky is lower than my KTM I would not want to lower it any further. I did feel that the rear traction was very good in the rough stuff. The only area the bike feels odd is in the turn and that is why I am thinking softer spring.
Try that longer chain! Mine flet different with 50 vs 51 sprocket. Made about 3mm difference on the wheel adjustment
I just added the Luxon link to mine set at 1mm longer but haven’t ridden it yet. Outside of setting the sag did you change up any of the other settings on the shock?
I think I’m going to try your settings with the shock and link. Did you experiment with 2-3mm longer at all? I have my shock rebound at 16 (15 was packing on high speed whoops), so I’m thinking I’ll go a little stiffer on compression and then go in on rebound.
Im having issues with the rear end feeling pretty rough on acceleration bumps and chop. Basically any time I’m in the higher rpm’s
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