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Really need to be thinking about e-moto as an addition to traditional gas bikes and not a wholesale replacement of them, people on both sides of the fence would be happier that way.
I don't know anyone on the e-moto side (including Stark or Alta) that will tell you that electric is a replacement for all gas bikes, that's a stance the anti-electric crowd has fabricated in their own heads but doesn't exist in reality.
It WILL exist in reality when the major OEMs drop their electric bikes on the market. It may take a few years, but we have the history of the "four stroke revolution" to review. They weren't going to replace 2 strokes either...and here we are. Slowly, but surely, they will stop development and manufacturing of ICE bikes.
The advantages and disadvantages of an electric bike vs a gas bike are different than for a 2 stroke vs a 4 stroke. Having a separate class to develop electric racing would be a huge improvement over cobbling equality rules together for existing classes and making mistakes.
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Battery motorcycles predate IC powered ones by about 4 years from the late 1880's and have been going to replace them for the last 140 years according to wise sages.
With no exceptions I can think of, all the battery buzzers have failed. The major bike makers sometimes pay lip service to warming alarmists and E nerds, but action on the factory floors is non existent. KTM spelt it out, and the failure of MotoE just underlines that unless there is a new electrical storage technology developed that is clean, inexpensive and safe, and doubles or triples storage density, bikes are gonna be IC, perhaps on synthetic fuels.
If you really believe that, check out MotoE where electric road racing bikes have their own series.
These are near 600lb machines that race for about 20 miles and are so range limited, even with 100 kg or so batteries that they dare not do a sight lap.
All the spectators at MotoE are on first name basis.
Pretty sure the goal of the electric movement supported by government is to replace ICE. If not they would hardly be ramming it down everyone’s throats.
On their private property with neighbors who don't like the noise? Plenty of situations where electric will be better. Not all. Just like no gas bike is the greatest everywhere either.
I don't think this transition will be the same. Consumers overwhelmingly preferred the 4 strokes to 2 strokes, and demand for 2 strokes tanked quickly. I don't think demand for ICE bikes will have a similar decline, instead I think overall bike sales will increase with electric and ICE options. I'll have an electric bike for my property and any new "e" riding areas that may pop up, but I'll never give up ICE bikes for traditional track and trail riding.
Buy one, Don't buy one. I really could care less. It only bothers me when people are calling marketing an outright lie and or scam. I would say its very good marketing. And just like with any marketing people should make sure they are not making any assumptions. Throwing a party over a few issues and a runtime that is about what was expected, and charge time that was pretty fast considering how hot it was out , is pretty lame. Especially when that same article also claimed all the same great things about the performance that other places have. There was also a Vet rider who was able to do a 40 minute moto on one. I wonder how the lap times measured up to a Gas bike for those same riders? Will those same things brake over and over that failed on the test bikes? Who knows, nobody has said what broke or what caused it in much detail.
Is the bike a fail? Is the person who posted the link , just trying to get people to pay to read the FULL article?? Is Goldmember a shill for Big Oil ? Invested heavily in Oil? Or just likes seeing fewer options for people to be able to ride and enjoy themselves? Less jobs for motorcycle industry people? What is the real motivation behind the people who dislike the Varg so much that they throw a party over a sliver of an article that hints at some legit issues ( Overheating and cutting out,) and confirms the known lack of ability for the battery to go 30+2 at active Pro level speed in 95F weather on a single charge.
On a side note, I'm happy to see that You are still alive Goldmember. I had not seen anything posted from you in the last month or so. Good to see You are still rooting for the failure of somebody that wants to try and change the sport for the better and is putting Millions of their own money into building a new brand. With the same argument You have had from the start. I'm really disappointed in myself for my lack of creativity in responding to the same exact "problems" You post about every time .
I think that if they can get the range to double, gas bikes might end up being like 2 strokes. So far we are pretty much in the pre YZ400 era of EMX to draw a comparison timeline. The modified chassis with built XR engines in them days. I think its too early to say that it will not be similar. If the runtime doubles and charge time is cut in half and weight is the same. That would get it close to passing the Goldmember approval . I think those are the big things holding them back. They will be able to fix the other stuff. I think that if Honda came out with a bike that mad 55-65 HP , but was able to run without overheating issues that the Alta had and Varg may have. That it would sell very very well.
Look at how heavy , hard to start, unreliable etc. those first 4 strokes were when compared to bikes 5 years later, and now 14 years later. The 4 stroke engine was not new tech back then either, just new to MX like electric is now. I think that when more people can ride them , they will catch on faster .
I think right now You have people who have been following electric since Alta , might have experience with other E power and know how good it can be, people who are afraid it's going to be some way of taking away their gas bikes, and then a much bigger group that is somewhere in the middle ,waiting to try one themselves or see more about them so they can decide which side to take.
MotoE offers some of the best actual racing of a MotoGP weekend (its not all slipstream positioning like moto3) and has allowed the promotor and sanctioning body an avenue to explore electric racing without screwing with the classes they have already. It's come a long way since I watched a 3 bike exhibition electric "race" after the motogp race at Indy in 2013.
We've really come a long way from best motocross bike ever made lol
It sounds like a Varg could be run in SX if they allowed 2 bikes , or they are able to have a way of fast charging the Factory team's bikes . If they do not care as much about the longterm life of the battery they may be able to charge fast enough to get away with one bike. I would rather see Electric bikes have to last long enough , than to shorten the races to let them finish.
There will not be enough different manufactures of full sized EMX bikes anytime soon to have a real pro series. It would end up like a full-sized KTM 50 race. Locally it would make sense to let them into Vet classes and Open classes. Again You will not have that many riders in most areas with one for a while. So it would be a small class.
Start with that and see how they are with 450's and then make the rules up for Pro racing and see if they need to limit the power more to fit into a class with a gas bike. Unlike the investment manufactures have to make to produce a gas engine with all the castings and tooling, etc. An electric powered bike can be limited and the same motor that puts out 80HP can be limited to whatever. You could avoid another rule like the double displacement rule that helped 4 strokes almost kill 2 strokes. Maybe Electric MX bikes will be limited by battery size instead of max power output. You can have all the HP you want. But You will not finish the race if you use it the entire time. Or limit HP and battery size. I assume that You could get a longer runtime if you limited the power output right?
I would love to see a top rider race a 450 SX season on a Varg against the gas bikes and see what happens. There has to be a way they can make the app limit the power so that You can run the entire race, especially in a SX. EMTB's let you pick the distance you want to go and then it limits the power so you do not run out of battery. It would be interesting to see how it was when at full power, and how they managed the power to go the full race. See if lap times increased as they had less power. Sometimes 250 guys have faster laps than 450 guys. It could be like watching a race in a race. Like them starting out on 450 power and by the end having to keep momentum up like a 125 in a MX race.
You cannot be serious?
It's another of that most hideous and damaging of motor sport contrivances: a one make series with riders on identical bikes. There is no serious engineering input, no competition, so it is unlikely to drive any improvement in range.
It's so bad that it is hidden from view with the racing on another day from the real classes.
I ride offroad on a four stroke.
Can't wait to see a Varg racing GNCC.
Even better would be Romaniacs
Pit Row
Let's start with modest goals.
It would be good to give the Stark Varg it's own defacto spec class at some arenacross, supercross, and outdoor events.
Really If You guys are all so positive that this bike is a giant heap of scam crap, why are you so excited that it had a few minor issues that as of now, still haven't really been explained. They still said all the same positive things about the bike right? So shouldn't you guys be disappointed that it's not worse?
Anyone paying attention to what Ford has been saying about EVs lately? Taking a $4.5 BILLION loss on them this year, far more than the huge losses they projected. Admitting they aren't close to being profitable yet. How many rounds of funding did Rivian go through before they went public and watched their stock prices tank?
It really doesn't matter how great the bike is if the business model doesn't work and you don't have a parent company to keep you afloat. It seems pretty clear to me that's the reality Stark is facing. Putting out a few bikes here and there doesn't dig you out of that hole but that's all they seem capable of after several months of being in production.
We've heard some of the numbers on what's been invested. They've easily spent that much a few times over by now. Just do the math. Use whatever numbers you think are reasonable. What do you think the average profit is per bike? What do you think their operating budget is? How many bikes do you have to produce before those numbers match? Be as generous as you want and you'll still get a number that is far greater than what they are doing. They'll be out of business by this time next year. Not rooting for it, but don't see how they avoid it. Fervent belief doesn't pay the bills.
Of course it’s a sh…y woods guys on his clapped-out four banger that complains the loudest that Varg can’t do 30 min full tilt..
You ride 15 min Motos and your talking shit to woods guys? 😂😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I typically stay out of these electric fan-boi threads.... But I thought I'd drop in just to leave this little ditty...
"Ford Motor Company projects it will lose a staggering $4.5 billion on electric vehicles (EVs) in 2023, up from its previously predicted loss of $3 billion earlier this year."
And I'm the one propagating prejudice...
So I'm not sure if I have all the right infos, but does the 80hp comes with a bigger battery pack? Therefore, as the power can be easily tune, could it be tuned down to have a similar output to a 250f and do the full 30min+2?
And if it doesn't last long enough to match the output of a 250f for 30+2, could it work for the 125/emx class?
They both have the same battery . Not sure how much you can extend the runtime by turning the power down. Bryan the first guy to get one, has been the most extensive source on runtime and tuning . I do not think he has done any videos on getting more range. He has been able to get a little over 40 minutes of solid runtime on a MX track in Cali . I think he spends most of his time in the 60HP setting.
The BIG difference between Electric cars and an Electric MX bike is they expected to sell 1000 -5000. I would bet that Ford has much higher goals. An electric Ford car is nothing special. I only can name off the lightning truck. Nothing else comes to mind.
The Varg will enable people to ride in places that a gas bike can not go. Indoor tracks may be a long-term possibility. But personal home tracks are something people can do right now.
The Varg is more inline with a Tesla Plaid. Its something You want, Nobody needs one. Its a toy its fun and can do stuff a gas version can not do.
I hope they do not fail. Its really an apples to oranges deal. Not the same at all. Look at the growth of Sur-ron and other small electric vehicle brands. Powersports in general.
Although its not as much of a stretch to connect Fords issues to potential issues for Stark. As the sky is falling claims from an article nobody hear has read in full. Stark is starting up and knew they would not start making any money until they were deep into bike sales. Unless they left no room for era , they are running behind , but even if they were on time I do not think they would be making a profit yet anyway.
Has anybody watched the video review they have at that link? And anybody know of a way to translate the video with subtitles or something?
I watched it and it showed 2 people. A host and one of the riders. Perhaps the host is also a rider in the video. But it looked like they only had a single riders opinion . Almost every clip they showed during the video is of the Varg passing or pulling away from the gas bike that is on the track.
I tried to buy a subscription to be able to read the entire article but they will not take my payment, ( I am not only a dumb eliever , I am apparently broke too)and the payment gateway is also in french so It could be me making a mistake. The only french I know is from working with Shot racegear. So useless when watching the video. But it looks like they were riding with techs from Stark there at the track. And it looked similar to the track all the Varg clips come from. A little bit softer dirt.
Thank You for all the Thumbs down votes. I really appreciate it. It shows me that the people hating the Varg know what I'm saying is true. So keep smashing that Thumbs down! And I'll keep giving my opinion . Also has anybody but Mike read the article? The video looked like an overall positive review. I was hoping they would show some of the issues. Have clips of the bikes and show what issues they had.
The video was a disappointment for me trying to see what problems came up. Maybe the video is not covering what is in the article. It's all in French and I'm just a dumb Varglover. Please somebody show me the quotes from the article. It proves how bad the bikes are right?
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