Ducati + Webb 2024 Rumor

Ob917
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5/24/2023 7:34pm

This shit is ridiculous 

2
McG194
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5/25/2023 6:55am
McG194 wrote:
Doh!!!!!!! I hate when someone checkmates themselves. BMW never went that serious into moto, it was a half hearted attempt at best. They did go way...

Doh!!!!!!!

I hate when someone checkmates themselves. BMW never went that serious into moto, it was a half hearted attempt at best. They did go way outside their niche and decide to make sportbikes and they came out with a hella impressive superbike. 

MXMattii wrote:
They never went serious into moto... That is weird because; They paid a 5-time world champion decent money, raced in World Championship Enduro and not...

They never went serious into moto... That is weird because; They paid a 5-time world champion decent money, raced in World Championship Enduro and not on a low key because they signed multiple world champion David Knight. But he left because the bike wasn't that great. At the end of the day they stopped the project, sold Husqvarna (that was also theirs back than) because you can't copy a rubbish Italian Thumper (look this BMW and the 2008 Husqvarna) and hope it turns out great because their is a BMW badge on. Luckily they weren't too deep and serious in moto, they only got a factory Enduro BMW team... (Checkmate?)

YMVN4YQTZGOAYPAHXSFCHST6A4

bmwteam 0

P0048173

P0048175

 

Yes checkmate. I specifically stated moto. I said nothing about enduro. BMW motorcycle division is and was nothing like Ducati. They may have paid him but they just weren't that serious even in enduro. Perfect example of corporate hubris, we can just throw a bike together with our current staff and just hire a badass to ride it and all will be great. This was BMW's first attempt at a racing style machine and the lessons they learned they applied to building their superbike program. Ducati already has experience racing at the highest level, and they know what it takes. BMW took a knife to a gunfight; Ducati is more likely to bring a ballistic missile to a gunfight. 

 

Side note: Knighter raced our enduro (The Alligator during Daytona BikeWeek) this year and he still has some boogie. Damned impressive. 

 

4
MXMattii
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5/25/2023 3:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/25/2023 3:52pm
McG194 wrote:
Doh!!!!!!! I hate when someone checkmates themselves. BMW never went that serious into moto, it was a half hearted attempt at best. They did go way...

Doh!!!!!!!

I hate when someone checkmates themselves. BMW never went that serious into moto, it was a half hearted attempt at best. They did go way outside their niche and decide to make sportbikes and they came out with a hella impressive superbike. 

MXMattii wrote:
They never went serious into moto... That is weird because; They paid a 5-time world champion decent money, raced in World Championship Enduro and not...

They never went serious into moto... That is weird because; They paid a 5-time world champion decent money, raced in World Championship Enduro and not on a low key because they signed multiple world champion David Knight. But he left because the bike wasn't that great. At the end of the day they stopped the project, sold Husqvarna (that was also theirs back than) because you can't copy a rubbish Italian Thumper (look this BMW and the 2008 Husqvarna) and hope it turns out great because their is a BMW badge on. Luckily they weren't too deep and serious in moto, they only got a factory Enduro BMW team... (Checkmate?)

YMVN4YQTZGOAYPAHXSFCHST6A4

bmwteam 0

P0048173

P0048175

 

McG194 wrote:
Yes checkmate. I specifically stated moto. I said nothing about enduro. BMW motorcycle division is and was nothing like Ducati. They may have paid him but...

Yes checkmate. I specifically stated moto. I said nothing about enduro. BMW motorcycle division is and was nothing like Ducati. They may have paid him but they just weren't that serious even in enduro. Perfect example of corporate hubris, we can just throw a bike together with our current staff and just hire a badass to ride it and all will be great. This was BMW's first attempt at a racing style machine and the lessons they learned they applied to building their superbike program. Ducati already has experience racing at the highest level, and they know what it takes. BMW took a knife to a gunfight; Ducati is more likely to bring a ballistic missile to a gunfight. 

 

Side note: Knighter raced our enduro (The Alligator during Daytona BikeWeek) this year and he still has some boogie. Damned impressive. 

 

Maybe it is time to stop talking rubbish. The through birth fathers from the Superbike S1000RR or the finger licking M1000RR are;

* BMW R1100RS (1992)
* BMW R1100S (1998)
* BMW R1200S (2006)
* BMW HP2 Sport (2008)
* BMW S1000RR (2009)
* BMW S1000RR (2012)
* BMW S1000RR (2015)
* BMW HP4 Race (2017)

 

Let ask you, why should a company who isn't interested in going deep into "moto" buy Husqvarna and create his own hybrid enduro/motocross bike. Also "Perfect example of corporate hubris, we can just throw a bike together with our current staff and just hire a badass to ride it and all will be great." is wrong. Because of the fact that BMW and Husqvarna was one company at that time they could use or even used the R&D from Husqvarna. Pity enough after the mid to end ninties the bike Italians never made a real competitive bike again... But BMW didn't use any R&D from the Italians and used all ideas that already failed on other dirtbikes. The only thing good on the bike was the engine: Pity they don't sell that apart for sidecar motocross racers.

Like I already prove in mine list, they weren't experimenting outside their field to end up with a superbike. Because in 1992 they came already close to the first "Superbike", weren't it that BMW had an: under 100HP rule for their bikes and this for a long time. Once that was cleared you see the development going fast. Not due to the G450X project if you ask me, because how can a thumper motocross bike be helpful in creating a Superbike. Supermoto I would understand but that opportunity they ignored. Also this project went from 2007 to 2010. You probably see it in the time line, they created three; almost or already superbikes with almost no to no technology of the G450X in it. Even the HP2 Enduro his only resemblance with the G450X is the the Marzocchi suspension. Because the tested air-forks weren't strong enough to give this, high weight model, enough travel from the ground.

 

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The Shop

Rad76
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7/5/2023 12:45am

The Ducati MX bike is a real thing and will make noise when it arrives, with high ends techs never seen before on a MX bike and great quality products. The Webb rumor is totally false, don't expect them in the US before at least two or three years, although they indeed speak with teams. One making a lot of sense, let's wait and see. They expect to be in MXGP maybe to get their feet in 2024, not sure, but with a rider able to win in 2025. Exciting times. 

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mxdoctor
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7/5/2023 3:11am

I thought Webb already signed with Star for 24? That would also explain why he wasn`t racing last weekend...

7
kxking
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7/5/2023 4:40am

He is contracted to race for KTM till the end of SMX, how would signing with Star for '24 effect last weekends race?

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wrc777
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7/5/2023 5:26am
mxdoctor wrote:

I thought Webb already signed with Star for 24? That would also explain why he wasn`t racing last weekend...

He needs outdoor points to secure a good seeding for SMX. I am pretty sure he wants to win it even if he is on a KTM.

1
7/5/2023 7:37am
Rad76 wrote:
The Ducati MX bike is a real thing and will make noise when it arrives, with high ends techs never seen before on a MX bike...

The Ducati MX bike is a real thing and will make noise when it arrives, with high ends techs never seen before on a MX bike and great quality products. The Webb rumor is totally false, don't expect them in the US before at least two or three years, although they indeed speak with teams. One making a lot of sense, let's wait and see. They expect to be in MXGP maybe to get their feet in 2024, not sure, but with a rider able to win in 2025. Exciting times. 

I can't wait to see what the have coming. At the same time, high end tech never before on an MX Bike usually comes at a high cost. 

Rad76
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7/5/2023 8:48am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I can't wait to see what the have coming. At the same time, high end tech never before on an MX Bike usually comes at a...

I can't wait to see what the have coming. At the same time, high end tech never before on an MX Bike usually comes at a high cost. 

Yep, the bike will be very expensive. Probably around 14/15K. 

kxking
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7/5/2023 9:16am

Hand made Italian craftsmanship.

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Richy
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7/5/2023 9:39am Edited Date/Time 7/5/2023 9:44am
Rad76 wrote:
The Ducati MX bike is a real thing and will make noise when it arrives, with high ends techs never seen before on a MX bike...

The Ducati MX bike is a real thing and will make noise when it arrives, with high ends techs never seen before on a MX bike and great quality products. The Webb rumor is totally false, don't expect them in the US before at least two or three years, although they indeed speak with teams. One making a lot of sense, let's wait and see. They expect to be in MXGP maybe to get their feet in 2024, not sure, but with a rider able to win in 2025. Exciting times. 

Where are you getting this info from?

Bearing in mind you have said nothing at all that could get your 'source' in any trouble and haven't given away any details that could upset anyone at any related company, so naming where it's come from  shouldn't be a concern.

Not saying your wrong at all, just curious where this comes from to present it so factually. Genuinely want to know, not picking a fight dude 👍

Also, if a motocross bike is already available with flat shift, map switch, traction control, electric start, more power than most pro's want on an average track, etc, do we really want more technology?

1
7/5/2023 9:54am
Richy wrote:
Where are you getting this info from? Bearing in mind you have said nothing at all that could get your 'source' in any trouble and haven't...

Where are you getting this info from?

Bearing in mind you have said nothing at all that could get your 'source' in any trouble and haven't given away any details that could upset anyone at any related company, so naming where it's come from  shouldn't be a concern.

Not saying your wrong at all, just curious where this comes from to present it so factually. Genuinely want to know, not picking a fight dude 👍

Also, if a motocross bike is already available with flat shift, map switch, traction control, electric start, more power than most pro's want on an average track, etc, do we really want more technology?

Rich is a french journalist working for a french motocross website (Mx2k), therefore he is close to some team managers and peoples in the European motocross industry.

His sources are usually to be trusted

2
1
aledei
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7/5/2023 11:24am
Rad76 wrote:
The Ducati MX bike is a real thing and will make noise when it arrives, with high ends techs never seen before on a MX bike...

The Ducati MX bike is a real thing and will make noise when it arrives, with high ends techs never seen before on a MX bike and great quality products. The Webb rumor is totally false, don't expect them in the US before at least two or three years, although they indeed speak with teams. One making a lot of sense, let's wait and see. They expect to be in MXGP maybe to get their feet in 2024, not sure, but with a rider able to win in 2025. Exciting times. 

Yes they are working on it seriously. And The Italian Team Maddi will be using them and doing the development as well. 
Let's be good with predictions, because is still no sure for 2024 in MXGP.

1
Spoonguy
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7/5/2023 11:55am

Desmo engines?

Richy
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7/5/2023 1:23pm Edited Date/Time 7/5/2023 1:24pm
Richy wrote:
Where are you getting this info from? Bearing in mind you have said nothing at all that could get your 'source' in any trouble and haven't...

Where are you getting this info from?

Bearing in mind you have said nothing at all that could get your 'source' in any trouble and haven't given away any details that could upset anyone at any related company, so naming where it's come from  shouldn't be a concern.

Not saying your wrong at all, just curious where this comes from to present it so factually. Genuinely want to know, not picking a fight dude 👍

Also, if a motocross bike is already available with flat shift, map switch, traction control, electric start, more power than most pro's want on an average track, etc, do we really want more technology?

Rich is a french journalist working for a french motocross website (Mx2k), therefore he is close to some team managers and peoples in the European motocross...

Rich is a french journalist working for a french motocross website (Mx2k), therefore he is close to some team managers and peoples in the European motocross industry.

His sources are usually to be trusted

That's sweet, nice to hear it is a pretty firm take, thanks for filling me in dude 👍

Rich, as said I was not saying you were wrong at all, was just interested in how you could speak so frankly about it, but that explains it. Thanks for sharing 👍

I'm looking forward to seeing one and just seeing the Termignoni pipe on the sketchy social media render above gets some old WSB nostalgia flowing!

1
1
7/5/2023 2:07pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I can't wait to see what the have coming. At the same time, high end tech never before on an MX Bike usually comes at a...

I can't wait to see what the have coming. At the same time, high end tech never before on an MX Bike usually comes at a high cost. 

Rad76 wrote:

Yep, the bike will be very expensive. Probably around 14/15K. 

That's what I'm afraid of. If they sell well, the rest will follow...

3
3
MXMattii
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7/5/2023 4:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/5/2023 4:37pm
Rad76 wrote:
The Ducati MX bike is a real thing and will make noise when it arrives, with high ends techs never seen before on a MX bike...

The Ducati MX bike is a real thing and will make noise when it arrives, with high ends techs never seen before on a MX bike and great quality products. The Webb rumor is totally false, don't expect them in the US before at least two or three years, although they indeed speak with teams. One making a lot of sense, let's wait and see. They expect to be in MXGP maybe to get their feet in 2024, not sure, but with a rider able to win in 2025. Exciting times. 

aledei wrote:
Yes they are working on it seriously. And The Italian Team Maddi will be using them and doing the development as well.  Let's be good with...

Yes they are working on it seriously. And The Italian Team Maddi will be using them and doing the development as well. 
Let's be good with predictions, because is still no sure for 2024 in MXGP.

2024 Maddi will sign great test rider (probably a retired rider), to test the bike in the Italian championship (not the International championship, pré-MXGP-Championship races). If the bike is good, some wildcard appearances in the MXGP series could be happening. If all goes well in 2025 the bike will be full time in the MXGP-series.

The MX bike will be race ready on the dealership floor, a bit like their Panigale V4 R. The Panigale V4 R is a bike that's being sold in race setup at $44,995, they already sold more than 500 from it so it's homologated for the World Superbike series and other championships. Rumors are that the MX bike will cost between 15k and 20k but with holeshot device (front and back), Ohlins A-kit, no GET or Vortex needed because one of both or something similar is already installed. Something that Ducati can probably also bring to the game is quick shifters (something I just thought about, wasn't in the rumors I heard). Anyway if 50% is true it will be a crazy bike...

4
Rad76
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7/6/2023 12:04am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2023 12:05am
Richy wrote:
That's sweet, nice to hear it is a pretty firm take, thanks for filling me in dude 👍 Rich, as said I was not saying you...

That's sweet, nice to hear it is a pretty firm take, thanks for filling me in dude 👍

Rich, as said I was not saying you were wrong at all, was just interested in how you could speak so frankly about it, but that explains it. Thanks for sharing 👍

I'm looking forward to seeing one and just seeing the Termignoni pipe on the sketchy social media render above gets some old WSB nostalgia flowing!

I can't say everything i know on the bike, just a sample, by respect for my source which is actually pretty good. Though can tell you there won't be Termignoni exhaust or Ohlins suspensions,as far as i know. But the Maddi thing is real i believe. Exciting times ! At the opposite, i don't know shit about the Triumph Laughing

1
Richy
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7/6/2023 12:13am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2023 12:14am
Richy wrote:
That's sweet, nice to hear it is a pretty firm take, thanks for filling me in dude 👍 Rich, as said I was not saying you...

That's sweet, nice to hear it is a pretty firm take, thanks for filling me in dude 👍

Rich, as said I was not saying you were wrong at all, was just interested in how you could speak so frankly about it, but that explains it. Thanks for sharing 👍

I'm looking forward to seeing one and just seeing the Termignoni pipe on the sketchy social media render above gets some old WSB nostalgia flowing!

Rad76 wrote:
I can't say everything i know on the bike, just a sample, by respect for my source which is actually pretty good. Though can tell you...

I can't say everything i know on the bike, just a sample, by respect for my source which is actually pretty good. Though can tell you there won't be Termignoni exhaust or Ohlins suspensions,as far as i know. But the Maddi thing is real i believe. Exciting times ! At the opposite, i don't know shit about the Triumph Laughing

Haha for sure, I'm amazed Ducati and Triumph have managed to keep things so secretive in this day and age... one intentionally blurry video of the Triumph in all this time, it's crazy really.

Keeping things under wraps while everyone has a camera/phone in their pocket and how fast any info will spread via social media is no small feat.

1
7/6/2023 4:37am

Italian long time lurker here.

You need to look at Ducati rumors from a different perspective.
Ducati wants, and has openly declared, to start a youth program to grow his own talents. Now, moto 2 is Triumph engine and Kalex chassis, has reasonable cost for GP racing, no advantages fom bike to bike. Do you really think that Ducati want to put their name of this combo  bike? It's a no-go, from marketing perspective.
Moto 3 should be the youth development class, but is becoming very, very expensive. The teams usually go trough 2 engines per race, and the engine itself are built in limited number. It has becoming so expensive that a moto 3 season costs way more than moto 2. Non sense. So plans are on the table to make it more accessible. The current 250 single powerplant make around 75 HP. The idea (still unofficial) on the table is to use, in few years, 450 singles based on a strict production rule.  At the moment Moto 3 is only KTM and Honda, but with the new rules there will be plenty of 450 engines to choose from. 75 hp is the power of a good supermoto bike.
Triumph has seen commercial benefits for their moto 2 exposure, and are developing a 450. Ducati, if they want a Moto 3 like they say they want, need one. Production means used on a bike sold to the public. In light of that this move a Ducati mx 450 will have sense. On the Far-East market GP classes are immensely popular, and the market is now the biggest in the world.

4
7/6/2023 5:23am

Ducati is not even coming to Motocross... it's just some bullshit made up here on Vital.   See if you can find one official word, or even a teaser for it, all fiction.   See what's on the other channel.

 

8
roninho
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7/6/2023 5:35am
MXMattii wrote:
2024 Maddi will sign great test rider (probably a retired rider), to test the bike in the Italian championship (not the International championship, pré-MXGP-Championship races). If...

2024 Maddi will sign great test rider (probably a retired rider), to test the bike in the Italian championship (not the International championship, pré-MXGP-Championship races). If the bike is good, some wildcard appearances in the MXGP series could be happening. If all goes well in 2025 the bike will be full time in the MXGP-series.

The MX bike will be race ready on the dealership floor, a bit like their Panigale V4 R. The Panigale V4 R is a bike that's being sold in race setup at $44,995, they already sold more than 500 from it so it's homologated for the World Superbike series and other championships. Rumors are that the MX bike will cost between 15k and 20k but with holeshot device (front and back), Ohlins A-kit, no GET or Vortex needed because one of both or something similar is already installed. Something that Ducati can probably also bring to the game is quick shifters (something I just thought about, wasn't in the rumors I heard). Anyway if 50% is true it will be a crazy bike...

15k is pretty comparable to a KTM 450 after adding an a-kit and vortex/get to the KTM

jonesaustin
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7/6/2023 6:03am
Joshracing wrote:
Ducati is not even coming to Motocross... it's just some bullshit made up here on Vital.   See if you can find one official word, or even...

Ducati is not even coming to Motocross... it's just some bullshit made up here on Vital.   See if you can find one official word, or even a teaser for it, all fiction.   See what's on the other channel.

 

I heard it spoken about on one or maybe two podcasts so I’m only going by people presumably connected well enough that they at least felt there was validity to it.

wwdiii
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7/6/2023 6:08am

Don’t believe anything ya hear and only half of what ya see!!!

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