Another first turn pile up and another injury

Go watch every other form of motor sports… Regardless of start structure every sport has issues from the start to the first turn. It’s part of racing, it’s always been part of racing, and will always be part of racing.

That’s the way a motocross start is, though, and always has been. That’s what makes the start exciting and different than most other now boring forms of racing. 

James Stewart was saying how he had the same crash as Hunter when they were showing the replay right?    I don't know that there really is a way to make it totally safe .The worst  first turn crash I can remember was Alessi at Red Bud. And that seemed like everybody was pretty spread out. Seemed like mike was getting run over for 10 minutes.   I think grates might keep the pack tighter if anything. Maybe they stop the pack from spreading out as quickly on the first lap a little bit.  

I remember a time that  a few friends and I had  one of the local tracks to ourselves the Monday after the race and we did some moto's with gate drops. The track had a winding first turn that swept to the right then left then a sharper right. With just the 4 or 5 of us on the track and able to line up with a couple spots between us, that first turn was super scary and felt  faster than I've gone through it even getting a holeshot with a full gate. With fewer riders that all knew and trusted each other , we were all beside each other going faster while being closer than a normal gate drop with more riders .  It was the scariest first turn/gatedrop/start I can remember. It was fun , and nobody went down. But going 5 wide through an area that normally developed into 2 main lines was scary.   

  I hate seeing riders get hurt as a fan, and I hated getting hurt as a racer. I think that starts will just keep getting faster and faster as the pack gets closer in speeds and more people believe they can get the holeshot.   

I kinda like the staggered gate for an incentive to make heat races more exciting. Making the gate position matter more. But I think that it might make the first turn more dangerous depending on how far You staggered them.    A staggered gate could result in a mid straight collision as riders could be meeting up as  they went down the straight. SInce you might have a guy who is a better starter and or on a faster bike start on the worse gate. Where when the gates are even that same rider would have gotten a jump and be ahead of the bike that was slower.  There are many racers who can start better than they finish, or that are better starters than they are at doing 1 lap sprints for qualifying.     I could see a staggered gate setup be more dangerous. 

Slowing the riders down might be the safest way of starting ripping the track deeper or  sand?      

Ah, a real student of history.  Vital is awesome.

No but you’re blaming the wrong things for those first turn crashes….if you think that by eliminating the technology it will reduce them somehow tells me that you are either a new fan to the sport or haven’t been paying attention. First turn crashes and the injuries that have resulted from them has been around since racing began…not the grates….

I was actually going to say longer or sweeping starts. Kinda like the how the SX finales in Vegas were. Let it be more of a drag race and get some time to separate.

Spot on.

You know what would really slow folks down? Steep uphill starts with no launch device. Skillzzzz

Take a hike

No but I’m not going to pretend the risk and danger aren’t part of the intrigue. This is coming from somebody who has been racing for over 25 years. 

Annnnnddd............they're OFF!

The complacency that persists from posts like this are strange to me considering that we will spend all of our time engineering better and better bikes but no time engineering better racing.

Short starts keep everyone bunched up and more likely to tangle. Long starts separate more, but when it goes bad, it goes really bad. Lakewood and red bud (especially this start) have always had first turn crashes. Any start can have a big one (see hangtown for example) but I don’t think you can blame the grates, holeshot devices, maps or anything. Riders just need to know when to shut off sometimes, like hunter did at Lakewood. At some point,  if you are always 5-25, it’s gonna bite you. 

Lakewood is straight up a steep hill same issues As one person said 40 riders going for 15 foot wide space is going tocreate contact. That will result in some riders going down. Has been that way regardless of staart systems. 

Put them back on 2 strokes. Lighter bikes will cause less injuries when they pile up. 

Show me racing that does not have crashes! I don’t care if it is dogs, horses planes, cars trucks boats etc crashes are part of racing. 

I mean the heavy metal and festool tools are pretty good. 

Grateifying

This demand change culture is toxic 

MX starts are literally a game of chicken.. Always have been.  Each second is a choice, by the rider.

Clutch hand on the helmet and no gate will cure this I'll bet.

I always had a level of fear I needed to manage when I lined up. It's really what I miss most about racing - that anticipation/dread of knowing I was gonna go charging with 20+ other bikes into a space that would hold 10. A little like setting up for a kickoff in football, or, even closer, right before you get dropped into a hot LZ. It's funny too - a few seconds before any of these and the fear goes away and you just get calm, focused on executing. Love that feeling.

Never had a really bad first turn incident, although I've seen my boy get knocked out, and others get hurt along with plenty of damaged bikes. I see no real way to fix this, but I do agree that all the technology being applied makes the field far more even and the risks go up as a result. Unless your name is Jett and it's the 2023 outdoor season. 

This has me thinking all misty eyed…I  miss Saddleback starts!…A looong steep uphill, a wide-ass first turn and the Bonsai downhill!  All hardpacked with no ruts…free to slide and float.  Then how about the wide fast 2nd turn going up Webco hill? The all-time, best start in MX history…at least in the history that I’ve lived.  
 

edit: Mammoth’has an epic start too and Glen Helen’s ain’t bad either

Sounds like what you need to watch. At least it's safe.

I’m struggling to understand your post and thought process. How do you engineer better racing?

Well for this discussion creating a starting method that isn't needlessly dangerous and takes out talent for no reason. Moto 2 of 250s was less than it could have been since Hunter got hurt. He's is the top rider in the lites class at the moment and the racing is better with Hunter racing. Hunter got hurt because of random chance and no fault of his own, all from a starting method that is overly dangerous for no reason other than tradition. 

So, you would engineer better racing by keeping riders healthy and making gate picks actually matter? I’m curious, what state issued you an engineering license?