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Yes I read both patents, there are always ways around patents, the question is can the OEMs find them?
Honda has stated their EV motorcycles will be using solid state batteries...
but they only have a demonstration line for solid state batteries, production will be years away.
All this battery and electric... Charge your phone sir!
Any idea how this relates to the swappable battery agreement with the Japanese oem's?
https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/honda-suzuki-kawasaki-yamaha-swap…
Electric motocross really needs to develop on its own separate from gas bikes with its own class and 20 minute motos, just like nitro and electric rc exist together but separate. I think other manufacturers would be more likely to throw their hat into a new ring than change the 2 they've spent years developing already.
The swappable battery packs are for scooters and small 3 wheelers...
Battery packs would be too heavy for performance bikes.
Why do motos need to be 20 minutes if the Varg can run for 30 minutes?
Let the Varg race against 450s, let it live or die on it's results.
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By the amount of bulls..t buzzword bingo you‘re doing, I must assume you‘ve studied economics. Am I right?
If Stark delivers the claimed 18K pre orders I think that KTM will see that there is a market for a bike similar to a Varg. 18K bikes is more than half the number of Gasgas bikes sold in 2022. If its worth it for KTM to have a factory team, and all the models they have with a total sales of just over 31K units. The Gasgas brand is still very new for KTM so I'm sure they expect more. But They still only sold just over 75K Husqvarna's in 22.
If Stark even only delivers half those pre orders over a year, I think it will show that there is a market for a bike like the Varg even with all of the shortcomings that You keep pointing out.
There are maybe 1000 people on the planet that can run through a tank of gas on a 450 in a 30 + 2 moto. Most of those people do not pay full price for their bikes.
I think that the Alta might have gotten them started on a bike. And maybe after Alta sales were not great , they slowed the development. If Stark converts the preorders to paid deliveries I think that all of them should rethink their position on full sized EMX bikes. I bet that if Honda,Yamaha,KTM, etc. came out with a bike that matched the Varg , but was built by a company that has been around for years with a dealer network inplace that people already have been buying bikes from, that they would sell better than the Vargs.
But Honda,Yamaha, Kawasaki ar all way behind in the performance SXS segments so they also might not care. Or they may know that when they come out with electric options , the end of their gas lines will not be long after. And They may have a lot of money invested in the next generations of Gas bikes that they want to produce before jumping ship.
It’s very weak patent application, only protecting this very design (If there‘s an A.. at the end it’s an application with no protection at all. Only when there’s a B.. it’s a patent. Big difference! Most application never get approved and only 1% of patent application make it to the actual market as a patented product). Easy to get around by e.g. having an different distances between a few cells and the first claim is void.
Solid state battery, flooded cells… nothing has hit the market and will definitely not find its first use in eMX bikes. Standard 18650 or 21700 cells are reliable, cheap and readily available. And that’s what everybody will be using without a doubt.
Hey, you can be both at the same time🤷♂️
What if the Triple crown style races were requested by the manufacturers to see how fans would react to a format that would be more friendly towards the current reliable batteries ? And not to just try something different.
What if they did (3) 20+2 motos outdoors instead of (2) 30's ? It would fit TV better and enable a program without adds during a moto. It would give fans an extra chance to get a snack or mearch between motos.
I think the electric bikes already have advantages , the weakness being runtime at the Pro level , so I would rather see them keep the (2) 30 minute motos. If KTM,Honda,suzuki, etc. came out with a Vark like bike , they could run them in the triple crown races and run their regular 4 strokes in the others. Maybe have some triple crown events in outdoors too if all the manufactures have EMX bikes before the runtime increases or charging speeds increase.
Maybe the Varg can already do a 30 + 2 with a pro on it. I'm going off Bryans videos and the runtime he gets at his speed. He looks like he can ride well, just not top pro level speed. He has also described himself as similar speed to Steve Mathis , Mr. Pulp rode Ferry's YZF in a NECS B class race that he won at Southwick many many years ago.
I figured that was for small mobility, just like their recent hydrogen announcement.
I'm skeptical the Varg will get 30 minutes at full power with a pro rider. Shooting for 20 minutes allows the cost and weight to be kept reasonable and is in line with sx main time. I would love to see them compete against 450s but think their own class is a better path forward.
As compared to you who knows he’s a douche?
"The guys in Croatia designed the inverter, not the battery pack, the battery pack was designed by Anton and Paul..."
Oh really? You obviously have more inside info than the guys in Croatia!
Hey fs, has your team been approached by other motorcycle manufacturers?
A regular fella might feel insulted by that if they didn’t know who it was coming from. It’s a compliment coming from you.
I would like to see them let the 2-Strokes have equal displacement. Some of the smaller manufacturers would be more competitive as Two Strokes are easier (cheaper!) to extract more power from. Of course that ship may have sailed already.
Well, apparently another guy got TWO Stark Vargs. So that dude must be twice as smart and articulate.
May have sailed ??? 😂😂
I'm always ready to be corrected by people on the inside!
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Like other countries, UK...
Australia...
And a sharp jawline
The Varg is an existential threat to KTM, they are likely to be the first OEM to respond, MX bikes are a small part of the other OEMs markets.
I can see KTM using 18650 or 21700 cells, I doubt Honda will, they are putting a lot of resources into solid state pouches.
Existential is a bit of an overstretch. KTM sells a lot more off road and street bikes than motocross bikes and those won’t go electric that quickly.
Haha, Honda announced that they plan on having the first EV with solid state battery by the end of the decade. Surely the CRE-line will get them first..
Honda has a lot of catch up to do in the EV market and tries to keep their investors calm by promising some future tech that will make them immediately the leader.
Edit: here’s the link: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/11/honda-aims-for-a-solid-state-powered-ev-by-the-end-of-the-decade/amp/
The Varg and follow on products from Stark and Eicher Motors Ltd are the existential thread to KTM, the other OEMs have other products beside motorcycles.
Honda's solid state batteries may reduce the risk of batteries fires, but they still have the same issues with cooling, pouch batteries will require liquid cooling, adding weight and complexity.
If Stark Varg don't hurry up and start delivering sensible numbers of bikes , then they will never be an "existential threat" to anyone but themselves.
Way to early to early to say how things will pan out
Didn't stark just post a picture of 15 or so bikes "ready for delivery"? Does anyone know what happened with that? You'd think there would be 15 or so people ecstatic about getting their new bike. Not a peep. I'm not against electric bikes, but I feel like stark is pulling the old smoke aand mirrors trick OFTEN. There are 4 bikes out there that we know of. All four are influencers, seems a little like a fairy tale to me. I think that is the issue most have with the whole thing. Be transparent, don't put out press releases that are either fraudulent or misleading. That's all.
Not a surprise that there are not any in the hands of Vital members. I've only seen 1 person post on here that they had the final delivery notification. Like I've said multiple times, many people who own rare expensive items do not want to let everybody in the world know about them. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the earlier Vargs were bought by other manufacturers .
I happen to have a customer who got on the list early and last I spoke with him, I think he said an ETA in late june or July was the last he had heard. I have posted the timeframe he said in one of these Varg threads , so go off whatever I said before if its not the same as the timeline I just gave. In the past he has camouflaged his new bikes to look like his old bike to avoid his wife noticing it was a new bike. There is a good chance that will be the case this time . He ordered it in the same color his current bike is.
I am slightly surprised that more Youtubers did not end up being earlier buyers of the Varg. It would not surprise me if more people who make a living by having the newest vehicles on their channels end up with some of the next public deliveries of Vargs. Just because that is how they make a living, seeking out the next new big thing and being one of the first to do a video with it. Many of them pay retail or above retail and are early buyers because that is what they do for a living. Sometimes they may work with a manufacturer to get early access. Sometimes they do not.
Fair enough, I just feel like out of 18,000 potential buyers there would be a few vital members in the group. Say they did ship 15 bikes, you can't tell me that one guy wouldn't be bragging about being one of the firsts. Even if not on here. Some type of social media post just to show their shiny new toy and get recognition. Maybe I'm completely off base, but I stand by my smoke and mirrors comment.
We had one guy posting about his and he has been ripped up one side and down the other by a bunch of piss ants that feel they need to shit on anyone who buys what they want. Hell I am surprised anyone wants to post about whatever they buy or want to buy with all the Vitards who just want to complain.
Something about that picture looks off imo, knobbies all lined up and few bars seem out of place 🤷
Yah and with all of the great content he has provided, with no obligation to answer any questions or even tell anybody about the bike. I'm sure there are a lot of people who enjoy the content Bryan has provided . But if I was a new happy Varg owner I might think twice about posting with all of the dumb comments that people have directed towards Bryan.
I don't see a big benefit for Stark to claim deliveries of such a low number if they were not real. And I think they were only claiming the bikes were ready to ship. I have had shipments come from Italy to me that took 3 days, I've also had a few that got stuck in customs for over a month for no reason and for a small mistake on the paperwork . I think that Stark still deserves to give them the benefit of the doubt. I keep hearing that the KTM parts I ordered in October of 2022 are coming in a container . While I am not thrilled about paying for them in full many months ago, I do not feel like I'm being scammed. With all of the issues Big established brands are still having with parts, I think it's just normal right now to have delays.
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