Championships won by the "wrong" rider

5/15/2023 4:51am

Marty Smith coulda woulda shoulda beaten Hannah had he not done the European rounds and had Honda raced the RC125 Type II the entire season.

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kage173
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5/15/2023 4:58am

I remember watching Sexton win his 250 championship and being positive that Forkner "deserved" it and was the better rider.

5 years later(?). Sexton has 2 250 SX titles, a MXDN, and a 450 SX championship, and Forkner is still hurt in the 250 class.

There are no wrong champions in Moto

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Mit12
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5/15/2023 9:01am

This talk is because people choosing to think with emotion over reality. There is a point system in place that covers every race and the one with the most points in the series wins. In this case Chase was the fastest rider and Tomac was the rider that capitalized on Chases early season mistakes until Tomac got injured. Dungey did the same thing to Tomac all those years capitalized on Tomacs inconsistency and won 3 championships over Tomac. David Bailey won the SX championship in 83 after Hannah got hurt and Barnetts bike broke down in the simi and missed the main. Chase earned this championship straight up.

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Eagle_70
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5/15/2023 11:47am

Osbourne over Satvatgy comes to mind, Osbourne ended Joeys career with that move.

Jordan Smith has a better case in that exact same race than Savatgy does. Dude had the points lead going in, was running up front with the title all but clinched, and then crashed twice and got injured. Not sure why people forget about that portion of the race, but regardless, there are no wrong champions.

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jonesaustin
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5/15/2023 11:51am
Moto520 wrote:

Stanton over Bradshaw……Bradshaw was up in points at the final round but it all went to shit

that was historically the prime example imo until maybe this year’s supercross title.

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BigRedMachine
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5/16/2023 5:25pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 5:30pm

2008 MX perfect season Championship by James Stewart, hardly any competition and everyone knows that Ricky Carmichael was on the retirement tour in 2007, but he was still the Dominant rider by a LOOOONG! shot.  Had RC not retired,  JS7's perfect season would have never happened and The Goat would have Dominated and won the 2008 MX championship as usual. 

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bionic218
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5/16/2023 5:35pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 5:36pm

Tim Ferry's 1997 SX East title - no wins.

AC's 250 SX title - don't remember what year - when he wadded up in the final round. 

As mentioned in the OP, both riders are outstanding, no shade intended for either one. 

Moto24
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5/16/2023 5:38pm

Here’s a classic for the old-timers like me…in 1982, Ricky Johnson had the points lead heading into the final race in Colorado and lost the title when he broke a wheel in the first moto.  He was a rookie that year and riding a production YZ250 against the ultra-trick works bikes from Honda and Yamaha and came up just short.  

Story here if you’re interested.

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RCMartin406
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5/16/2023 5:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 6:08pm
2008 MX perfect season Championship by James Stewart, hardly any competition and everyone knows that Ricky Carmichael was on the retirement tour in 2007, but he...

2008 MX perfect season Championship by James Stewart, hardly any competition and everyone knows that Ricky Carmichael was on the retirement tour in 2007, but he was still the Dominant rider by a LOOOONG! shot.  Had RC not retired,  JS7's perfect season would have never happened and The Goat would have Dominated and won the 2008 MX championship as usual. 

OMG, I knew the JS hater would show up in this post! 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️

Yes, RC was the better outdoor racer, James has even said as much, but RC never had a perfect season racing James either. 2007 James won 3 motos against RC in the first 5 races as well. RC didn’t have much competition either during his perfect seasons. 2008 if RC was racing, neither JS or RC would’ve had a perfect season, I don’t know who would’ve won the championship, but James was pretty dialed in that year, especially since he got Alden.

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BigRedMachine
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5/16/2023 5:57pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 6:05pm
2008 MX perfect season Championship by James Stewart, hardly any competition and everyone knows that Ricky Carmichael was on the retirement tour in 2007, but he...

2008 MX perfect season Championship by James Stewart, hardly any competition and everyone knows that Ricky Carmichael was on the retirement tour in 2007, but he was still the Dominant rider by a LOOOONG! shot.  Had RC not retired,  JS7's perfect season would have never happened and The Goat would have Dominated and won the 2008 MX championship as usual. 

OMG, I knew the JS hater would show up in this post! 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️ Yes, RC was the better outdoor racer, James has even said as much...

OMG, I knew the JS hater would show up in this post! 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️

Yes, RC was the better outdoor racer, James has even said as much, but RC never had a perfect season racing James either. 2007 James won 3 motos against RC in the first 5 races as well. RC didn’t have much competition either during his perfect seasons. 2008 if RC was racing, neither JS or RC would’ve had a perfect season, I don’t know who would’ve won the championship, but James was pretty dialed in that year, especially since he got Alden.

In order to be the Man! you gotta beat the MAN!  James Stewart never beat RC for a AMA Championship.  Everyone knows Ricky Carmichael retired on top and would have kept on winning had he not retired.  This thread is about Championships won by the wrong rider and JS perfect season in 2008 fits the bill.  Sometimes the truth hurts, try this. 

butthurt 0

 

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RCMartin406
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5/16/2023 6:15pm
2008 MX perfect season Championship by James Stewart, hardly any competition and everyone knows that Ricky Carmichael was on the retirement tour in 2007, but he...

2008 MX perfect season Championship by James Stewart, hardly any competition and everyone knows that Ricky Carmichael was on the retirement tour in 2007, but he was still the Dominant rider by a LOOOONG! shot.  Had RC not retired,  JS7's perfect season would have never happened and The Goat would have Dominated and won the 2008 MX championship as usual. 

OMG, I knew the JS hater would show up in this post! 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️ Yes, RC was the better outdoor racer, James has even said as much...

OMG, I knew the JS hater would show up in this post! 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️

Yes, RC was the better outdoor racer, James has even said as much, but RC never had a perfect season racing James either. 2007 James won 3 motos against RC in the first 5 races as well. RC didn’t have much competition either during his perfect seasons. 2008 if RC was racing, neither JS or RC would’ve had a perfect season, I don’t know who would’ve won the championship, but James was pretty dialed in that year, especially since he got Alden.

In order to be the Man! you gotta beat the MAN!  James Stewart never beat RC for a AMA Championship.  Everyone knows Ricky Carmichael retired on...

In order to be the Man! you gotta beat the MAN!  James Stewart never beat RC for a AMA Championship.  Everyone knows Ricky Carmichael retired on top and would have kept on winning had he not retired.  This thread is about Championships won by the wrong rider and JS perfect season in 2008 fits the bill.  Sometimes the truth hurts, try this. 

butthurt 0

 

IMG 4340

 

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BigRedMachine
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5/16/2023 6:22pm
OMG, I knew the JS hater would show up in this post! 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️ Yes, RC was the better outdoor racer, James has even said as much...

OMG, I knew the JS hater would show up in this post! 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️

Yes, RC was the better outdoor racer, James has even said as much, but RC never had a perfect season racing James either. 2007 James won 3 motos against RC in the first 5 races as well. RC didn’t have much competition either during his perfect seasons. 2008 if RC was racing, neither JS or RC would’ve had a perfect season, I don’t know who would’ve won the championship, but James was pretty dialed in that year, especially since he got Alden.

In order to be the Man! you gotta beat the MAN!  James Stewart never beat RC for a AMA Championship.  Everyone knows Ricky Carmichael retired on...

In order to be the Man! you gotta beat the MAN!  James Stewart never beat RC for a AMA Championship.  Everyone knows Ricky Carmichael retired on top and would have kept on winning had he not retired.  This thread is about Championships won by the wrong rider and JS perfect season in 2008 fits the bill.  Sometimes the truth hurts, try this. 

butthurt 0

 

 

IMG 4340

 

I know with some, it's Taboo to mention James Stewart in any sort of negativity, but there are posts all over the place saying Chase Sexton was gifted the 2023 SX Championship and I don't see you getting all Butthurt about that and defending his accomplishments.  One mention of anything bad about JS7 and his fans get Ass Rash. 

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RCMartin406
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5/16/2023 6:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 6:40pm
In order to be the Man! you gotta beat the MAN!  James Stewart never beat RC for a AMA Championship.  Everyone knows Ricky Carmichael retired on...

In order to be the Man! you gotta beat the MAN!  James Stewart never beat RC for a AMA Championship.  Everyone knows Ricky Carmichael retired on top and would have kept on winning had he not retired.  This thread is about Championships won by the wrong rider and JS perfect season in 2008 fits the bill.  Sometimes the truth hurts, try this. 

butthurt 0

 

 

IMG 4340

 

I know with some, it's Taboo to mention James Stewart in any sort of negativity, but there are posts all over the place saying Chase Sexton...

I know with some, it's Taboo to mention James Stewart in any sort of negativity, but there are posts all over the place saying Chase Sexton was gifted the 2023 SX Championship and I don't see you getting all Butthurt about that and defending his accomplishments.  One mention of anything bad about JS7 and his fans get Ass Rash. 

I’m happy for Chase and don’t think he was gifted anything. But you never contribute anything to this board other than hating on James. If you were a little bit more consistent with your hating/posting, I wouldn’t call you out. Makes me wonder why all the hate 🤔

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ShipLap
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5/16/2023 6:59pm
Brad460 wrote:

Reed’s 2009 outdoor championship..

Sully wrote:
Huh? He won that title by almost 100 points. Or are you trying to say he only won because Stew went SX only that year? (which...

Huh? He won that title by almost 100 points. Or are you trying to say he only won because Stew went SX only that year? (which is dumb)

He may be referring to the fact that RV swept the first two motos and hurt his knee at Hangtown and was out for the whole season.

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Brad460
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5/16/2023 7:32pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 7:32pm
Sully wrote:
Huh? He won that title by almost 100 points. Or are you trying to say he only won because Stew went SX only that year? (which...

Huh? He won that title by almost 100 points. Or are you trying to say he only won because Stew went SX only that year? (which is dumb)

Was a relatively weak field (obviously by the 100 point lead as you point out) and Alessi was the fastest guy..(until he got hurt)..

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Juck
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5/16/2023 7:52pm

Dungey 2017 SX. Everyone talks about Tomac choking in East Rutherford but everyone seems to forget that wouldn't have mattered at all if he didn't have the mechanical in Arlington(?)

Tomac was undoubtedly the better guy that season

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BigRedMachine
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5/16/2023 9:18pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 9:20pm
 

IMG 4340

 

I know with some, it's Taboo to mention James Stewart in any sort of negativity, but there are posts all over the place saying Chase Sexton...

I know with some, it's Taboo to mention James Stewart in any sort of negativity, but there are posts all over the place saying Chase Sexton was gifted the 2023 SX Championship and I don't see you getting all Butthurt about that and defending his accomplishments.  One mention of anything bad about JS7 and his fans get Ass Rash. 

I’m happy for Chase and don’t think he was gifted anything. But you never contribute anything to this board other than hating on James. If you...

I’m happy for Chase and don’t think he was gifted anything. But you never contribute anything to this board other than hating on James. If you were a little bit more consistent with your hating/posting, I wouldn’t call you out. Makes me wonder why all the hate 🤔

I think Hate! is a pretty strong word, but I call um as I see's um.  RC gets in the booth and JS7 fans come on and start spouting how much better James is, anytime there's talk of RV, RC and all their achievements and almost like clockwork JS7 fans always come out and say he was the fastest ever.  James was fast no doubt, but I don't think he could have held a candle to riders like Ryan Villopoto, Ricky Carmichael or Jeffrey Herlings in their prime outdoors.  Do you really believe James Stewart could have won the Championship and had a perfect season in 2008 if a still hungry for another championship RC had been racing.   When you look at the field in 2008, the riders were good, but they weren't RC or RV good. I find it interesting that even after over a decade retired, JS7 fans still get very sensitive and instantly come up with the Hate word as soon as someone has a different opinion about Bubba. 

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5/16/2023 9:54pm

I want to say it was 2011 and RV won the title in motocross, but was that the year that Dungey had the bike malfunction and missed the start at a mud race? I wasn't following the sport super close at the time, but I remember something like that happening. 

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NVA57
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5/16/2023 11:18pm

Tixier winning the 2014 MX2 championship. Herlings missed 4(!) races and rode the final race with a broken femur and he still only won it by 4 points. 

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5/17/2023 1:35am
NVA57 wrote:
Tixier winning the 2014 MX2 championship. Herlings missed 4(!) races and rode the final race with a broken femur and he still only won it by...

Tixier winning the 2014 MX2 championship. Herlings missed 4(!) races and rode the final race with a broken femur and he still only won it by 4 points. 

I was gonna post exactly the same thing. One could also say Gajser got a pass in 2015 when Herlings got landed on by Tixier & dislocated his hip. Again Herlings had a substantial points lead at that time. 

ShipLap
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5/17/2023 2:45am
2008 MX perfect season Championship by James Stewart, hardly any competition and everyone knows that Ricky Carmichael was on the retirement tour in 2007, but he...

2008 MX perfect season Championship by James Stewart, hardly any competition and everyone knows that Ricky Carmichael was on the retirement tour in 2007, but he was still the Dominant rider by a LOOOONG! shot.  Had RC not retired,  JS7's perfect season would have never happened and The Goat would have Dominated and won the 2008 MX championship as usual. 

It was kind of a depleted field in 2008 when Ferry and Michael Byrne and Andrew Short are your only competition.  But 24-0

ShipLap
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5/17/2023 2:54am
bionic218 wrote:
Tim Ferry's 1997 SX East title - no wins. AC's 250 SX title - don't remember what year - when he wadded up in the final...

Tim Ferry's 1997 SX East title - no wins.

AC's 250 SX title - don't remember what year - when he wadded up in the final round. 

As mentioned in the OP, both riders are outstanding, no shade intended for either one. 

Travis Preston won the 2002 125 West SX title and his interviews were even better than the races. Wink

5/17/2023 3:32am

Osbourne over Satvatgy comes to mind, Osbourne ended Joeys career with that move.

Yeah I don't see it. 

You can't put on that kind of ride from last, and then when getting in striking distance of that title, just letting him rail that berm and go on to win. That was damn good racing. 

 

I also wouldn't say Joey's career was ended either lol 

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RCMartin406
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5/17/2023 5:36am Edited Date/Time 5/17/2023 5:43am
I know with some, it's Taboo to mention James Stewart in any sort of negativity, but there are posts all over the place saying Chase Sexton...

I know with some, it's Taboo to mention James Stewart in any sort of negativity, but there are posts all over the place saying Chase Sexton was gifted the 2023 SX Championship and I don't see you getting all Butthurt about that and defending his accomplishments.  One mention of anything bad about JS7 and his fans get Ass Rash. 

I’m happy for Chase and don’t think he was gifted anything. But you never contribute anything to this board other than hating on James. If you...

I’m happy for Chase and don’t think he was gifted anything. But you never contribute anything to this board other than hating on James. If you were a little bit more consistent with your hating/posting, I wouldn’t call you out. Makes me wonder why all the hate 🤔

I think Hate! is a pretty strong word, but I call um as I see's um.  RC gets in the booth and JS7 fans come on...

I think Hate! is a pretty strong word, but I call um as I see's um.  RC gets in the booth and JS7 fans come on and start spouting how much better James is, anytime there's talk of RV, RC and all their achievements and almost like clockwork JS7 fans always come out and say he was the fastest ever.  James was fast no doubt, but I don't think he could have held a candle to riders like Ryan Villopoto, Ricky Carmichael or Jeffrey Herlings in their prime outdoors.  Do you really believe James Stewart could have won the Championship and had a perfect season in 2008 if a still hungry for another championship RC had been racing.   When you look at the field in 2008, the riders were good, but they weren't RC or RV good. I find it interesting that even after over a decade retired, JS7 fans still get very sensitive and instantly come up with the Hate word as soon as someone has a different opinion about Bubba. 

Yes I know, YOU call them as YOU see them! 😐

That’s all we need to know right there. The vast majority would disagree with you though, but like all of us, you’re entitled to your opinion, so carry on.

Lip44
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5/17/2023 6:32am
I want to say it was 2011 and RV won the title in motocross, but was that the year that Dungey had the bike malfunction and...

I want to say it was 2011 and RV won the title in motocross, but was that the year that Dungey had the bike malfunction and missed the start at a mud race? I wasn't following the sport super close at the time, but I remember something like that happening. 

2011 was tough for Dungey both indoors and out with bike issues. He DNF'd Anaheim 2 SX when his chain broke, then he DNF'd Freestone moto 2 when his fuel boiled, then Southwick was the one where his bike wouldn't start for moto 2. They eventually got it running and Dungey pulled onto the track just before the leaders came around the first lap, ended up 7th that moto I think. 

Interestingly Dungey lost the SX title by 10 points, and the MX title by 12 points that year. If it weren't for the mechanical issues, it's possible to think that he would have won both titles that year. 

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mx 219
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5/17/2023 6:40am
Juck wrote:
Dungey 2017 SX. Everyone talks about Tomac choking in East Rutherford but everyone seems to forget that wouldn't have mattered at all if he didn't have...

Dungey 2017 SX. Everyone talks about Tomac choking in East Rutherford but everyone seems to forget that wouldn't have mattered at all if he didn't have the mechanical in Arlington(?)

Tomac was undoubtedly the better guy that season

I would say more so than 2023, the difference was Tomac had some horrible rounds in 2017.

RCMartin406
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5/17/2023 6:57am Edited Date/Time 5/17/2023 7:02am
I want to say it was 2011 and RV won the title in motocross, but was that the year that Dungey had the bike malfunction and...

I want to say it was 2011 and RV won the title in motocross, but was that the year that Dungey had the bike malfunction and missed the start at a mud race? I wasn't following the sport super close at the time, but I remember something like that happening. 

Lip44 wrote:
2011 was tough for Dungey both indoors and out with bike issues. He DNF'd Anaheim 2 SX when his chain broke, then he DNF'd Freestone moto...

2011 was tough for Dungey both indoors and out with bike issues. He DNF'd Anaheim 2 SX when his chain broke, then he DNF'd Freestone moto 2 when his fuel boiled, then Southwick was the one where his bike wouldn't start for moto 2. They eventually got it running and Dungey pulled onto the track just before the leaders came around the first lap, ended up 7th that moto I think. 

Interestingly Dungey lost the SX title by 10 points, and the MX title by 12 points that year. If it weren't for the mechanical issues, it's possible to think that he would have won both titles that year. 

This right here is the reason I don’t have RV in my top 5 of all time. If it was because of Dungeys mistakes or injuries, I would, but freakin mechanicals and running out of fuel!?(btw, he was leading that race by a mile too!), If not for those, Dungey would have 10 titles to RVs 7. But we don’t get mulligans in SX/MX so it is what it is.

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5/17/2023 7:17am
Juck wrote:
Dungey 2017 SX. Everyone talks about Tomac choking in East Rutherford but everyone seems to forget that wouldn't have mattered at all if he didn't have...

Dungey 2017 SX. Everyone talks about Tomac choking in East Rutherford but everyone seems to forget that wouldn't have mattered at all if he didn't have the mechanical in Arlington(?)

Tomac was undoubtedly the better guy that season

Nope. Tomac lost that one straight up. The mechanical in Arlington was caused by him getting bad starts and riding sketchy. He may have been the faster rider that year, but Dungey was the better rider. 

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5/17/2023 7:39am
cable wrote:

Emig 125 title.   Larocco had a 40pt lead with two rounds to go.  Shifter? Broke or fell off.  

Emigs 96 outdoor title? If MC didn’t get hurt at Spring Creek would Emig still be champ* ? 

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