Picture of Eli's boot

Hank_Thrill
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5/8/2023 9:20am
brocster wrote:
Do you not see that it’s two very loose buckles that when properly buckled provide a support system for the ankle and flexion from the structure...

Do you not see that it’s two very loose buckles that when properly buckled provide a support system for the ankle and flexion from the structure of the boot itself? Sure there is a hyper flexion stop but a properly buckled boot acts as some resistance to hyper flexion in and of itself. 

Is there a photo anywhere of the buckles loose before his tendon snapped on that takeoff? So far, all the photos I've seen are after the incident. 

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Cobbler
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5/8/2023 9:26am
That's gotta be the happiest person to lose a million+ bucks I've seen.  He has to be one of the most mentally strong riders at this...

That's gotta be the happiest person to lose a million+ bucks I've seen.  He has to be one of the most mentally strong riders at this point.  Or maybe the injury helped him make a hard decision about keeping racing or stopping. Maybe he was just in shock , but it was so crazy to see the way he dealt with the injury In front of his hometown crowd and everything the injury means.

Goldmember wrote:

Maybe good pain killers?

 

He strikes me as the kind to say "no thanks" to those.

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Xeno
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5/8/2023 9:53am

I knew the internet sleuths would bring this up!

Protective gear is modified for performance, the downside is less protection.

It's a calculated, professional risk. No need to criticize the guy (ahem Kooksie).

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WarrenMX
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5/8/2023 10:07am

Where are the flexion absorption bars?

I just got a new pair of tech 10s and I always forget how damn stiff they are when they are new, I find them really hard to ride in at first. It got me thinking, how do the pros deal with new boots every weekend? Sounds like this is the answer?

1

The Shop

Spooner
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5/8/2023 10:09am
WarrenMX wrote:
Where are the flexion absorption bars? I just got a new pair of tech 10s and I always forget how damn stiff they are when they...

Where are the flexion absorption bars?

I just got a new pair of tech 10s and I always forget how damn stiff they are when they are new, I find them really hard to ride in at first. It got me thinking, how do the pros deal with new boots every weekend? Sounds like this is the answer?

It’s the rubber thing between the first two buckles.  

 

I keep hearing some of you guys saying they are so stiff. I have been wearing them forever and I wore an old pair in a muddy practice a few weeks ago and then tossed on new ones for the race and I just walked around in them as I got my bike ready to go, snugged up the buckles again, then did a 2 hour offroad race and they felt just like my two year old pair.  

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PNWMXer
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5/8/2023 10:10am
I literally just puked. my goodness its racing and anything can happen, but this is beyond comprehension. For him to handle a serious injury like this...

I literally just puked. my goodness its racing and anything can happen, but this is beyond comprehension. For him to handle a serious injury like this the way he did is also crazy. We know he's tough, but this is something different.

To lose a Championship like this is cruel. Hopefully we see him on a bike again.

 

Brother, I can’t help but believe you are a liar and didn’t literally puke by looking at that photo. 

When anyone today says “I literally…”, it’s safe to assume that whatever action described is pure grade-A bull dung.

Or for those who watched MASH, insert “bull cookies” and or “bull fritters” as Col Potter would say.

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SEEMEFIRST
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5/8/2023 10:10am

8DC93ABB-AD12-46D9-8AEB-0F2184C71497.jpeg?VersionId=hx0mwbO

WarrenMX wrote:
Where are the flexion absorption bars? I just got a new pair of tech 10s and I always forget how damn stiff they are when they...

Where are the flexion absorption bars?

I just got a new pair of tech 10s and I always forget how damn stiff they are when they are new, I find them really hard to ride in at first. It got me thinking, how do the pros deal with new boots every weekend? Sounds like this is the answer?

gm5b2p86l7akpc7l

 

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WarrenMX
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5/8/2023 10:15am
WarrenMX wrote:
Where are the flexion absorption bars? I just got a new pair of tech 10s and I always forget how damn stiff they are when they...

Where are the flexion absorption bars?

I just got a new pair of tech 10s and I always forget how damn stiff they are when they are new, I find them really hard to ride in at first. It got me thinking, how do the pros deal with new boots every weekend? Sounds like this is the answer?

Spooner wrote:
It’s the rubber thing between the first two buckles.     I keep hearing some of you guys saying they are so stiff. I have been...

It’s the rubber thing between the first two buckles.  

 

I keep hearing some of you guys saying they are so stiff. I have been wearing them forever and I wore an old pair in a muddy practice a few weeks ago and then tossed on new ones for the race and I just walked around in them as I got my bike ready to go, snugged up the buckles again, then did a 2 hour offroad race and they felt just like my two year old pair.  

I find that after 2-3 rides at the track which equates to about 2 hours of riding, they feel fine. But the first ride for me I'll miss the odd shift and don't feel as precise with my back brake. I also run my boots pretty small (relative to my foot). 

5/8/2023 10:41am
That's gotta be the happiest person to lose a million+ bucks I've seen.  He has to be one of the most mentally strong riders at this...

That's gotta be the happiest person to lose a million+ bucks I've seen.  He has to be one of the most mentally strong riders at this point.  Or maybe the injury helped him make a hard decision about keeping racing or stopping. Maybe he was just in shock , but it was so crazy to see the way he dealt with the injury In front of his hometown crowd and everything the injury means.

Goldmember wrote:

Maybe good pain killers?

 

Cobbler wrote:

He strikes me as the kind to say "no thanks" to those.

I was thinking the same thing as far as him saying no to them. Either Way , the way he calmly pulled off the track, making sure not to be in risk of being hit by another racer and calmly hopping into the Medical rig, all were impressive and pain med free.  Maybe this will fire him up and He will come back for outdoors next year and stick around another few years. 

I was also thinking that there may have been something that had happened prior to the injury in the main. It seemed like such a relatively minor  impact for what happened. So strange and I was just in shock that happened.  Its just so crazy that all of these guys have gotten hurt so close to the end of the SX season.    

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Chaser503
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5/8/2023 11:10am

I think it's reasonable to infer he had to wear the LE stuff, including boots. Likely had no time on the boots before the race and so made adjustments to get them to work. The boots didn't hold up and his toes touched his shin, blowing out his Achilles. Check the slo-mo video. Not pretty.

What really points to the boots as the problem is this happened on a very routine jump. Something he's done thousands of times and never had a catastrophic boot failure, except when wearing these boots. It's the boots and I don't think you have to wear a tin foil hat to see it.

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hellion
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5/8/2023 11:12am

If you don’t think the buckles matter, throw your boot on and don’t buckle the bottom buckles and go do a calf stretch on a step.  They definitely add support.  That said, I don’t think you need hyper flexion to tear the tendon.  A very strong muscle under a huge load could tear the tendon, and perhaps it was partially torn from a previous and possibly unknown injury.  
 

I just got done recovering from a complete bicep tendon tear.  The surgeon said it was mostly torn long before it let go.  I never remember hurting it. 

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Magoofan
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5/8/2023 11:32am
He's got a brand new one anyway...    

He's got a brand new one anyway...

345855396 745848003887200 3852875245216067896 n 0

 

Ah....  I HATE that reality right there.  Sad

...but I have to say, removing the safety feature of the boot designed to prevent this....if true...not a smart move. 

 

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2
5/8/2023 11:48am
Chaser503 wrote:
I think it's reasonable to infer he had to wear the LE stuff, including boots. Likely had no time on the boots before the race and...

I think it's reasonable to infer he had to wear the LE stuff, including boots. Likely had no time on the boots before the race and so made adjustments to get them to work. The boots didn't hold up and his toes touched his shin, blowing out his Achilles. Check the slo-mo video. Not pretty.

What really points to the boots as the problem is this happened on a very routine jump. Something he's done thousands of times and never had a catastrophic boot failure, except when wearing these boots. It's the boots and I don't think you have to wear a tin foil hat to see it.

My first thought was about the boots too. But then I was thinking about it and figured that Alpinestars probable did everything they normally do to the boots that Eli wears.  Just being a dealer I sometimes will get access to product a few months before its going to be available to order. Alpinestars normally has the LE stuff  in stock with distributors so that dealers are able to order and have the products in stock on the same day or a few days after the release . So I'm sure that Alpinestars had these boots already built ahead of time and prepped them the same as they always do. If not that would really surprise me.

  All the gear companies are  already working on 2025+ gear designs  right now and dealers are getting 2024 gear orders together. So while the LE stuff is new to consumers , the people at Alpinestars have known about these colorways for 8 months to a year, maybe longer. And should have had plenty of time to prep them for their top racers. Now thats not to say that there was not a problem with the boots. Just that they had ample time to make sure that they were going to be built like Eli likes them to be and not a rushed together thing.    

3
Goldmember
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5/8/2023 11:57am
Chaser503 wrote:
I think it's reasonable to infer he had to wear the LE stuff, including boots. Likely had no time on the boots before the race and...

I think it's reasonable to infer he had to wear the LE stuff, including boots. Likely had no time on the boots before the race and so made adjustments to get them to work. The boots didn't hold up and his toes touched his shin, blowing out his Achilles. Check the slo-mo video. Not pretty.

What really points to the boots as the problem is this happened on a very routine jump. Something he's done thousands of times and never had a catastrophic boot failure, except when wearing these boots. It's the boots and I don't think you have to wear a tin foil hat to see it.

One thing that comes to mind is how rare Achilles tendon ruptures are in MX, yet how common casing, G outs, poor foot positioning and so on is.

It was a very unusual accident. I think the tendon ruptured in the normal movement range, restrained by the calf muscle, and the spectacular hyper flexion followed because the foot broke free.

The boots had absolutely nothing to do with it.

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Chaser503
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5/8/2023 12:17pm
Goldmember wrote:
One thing that comes to mind is how rare Achilles tendon ruptures are in MX, yet how common casing, G outs, poor foot positioning and so...

One thing that comes to mind is how rare Achilles tendon ruptures are in MX, yet how common casing, G outs, poor foot positioning and so on is.

It was a very unusual accident. I think the tendon ruptured in the normal movement range, restrained by the calf muscle, and the spectacular hyper flexion followed because the foot broke free.

The boots had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm not following. You're saying:

1. Achilles injuries are rare in MX 

2. This was a routine jump, executed without injury thousands of times

3. Boot was new and maybe the function was adjusted.

How can you come to any other conclusion but that the boot failure is responsible for the tear? Maybe if it was previously injured, yes. But you're saying the boot broke because the tendon ruptured? Help me understand.

3
POWLEY256
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5/8/2023 12:39pm

Love how people are blaming the buckles being loose even tho its clear that he doesnt have the rubber bumpers on the front of the boot which are Litrally designed to help prevent that exact kind of injury 🤦🏼‍♂️😂😂  you cant blame astars for something that eli has obviously asked to be removed to get more flex in the boot. 🤷‍♂️

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3
5/8/2023 12:41pm
POWLEY256 wrote:
Love how people are blaming the buckles being loose even tho its clear that he doesnt have the rubber bumpers on the front of the boot...

Love how people are blaming the buckles being loose even tho its clear that he doesnt have the rubber bumpers on the front of the boot which are Litrally designed to help prevent that exact kind of injury 🤦🏼‍♂️😂😂  you cant blame astars for something that eli has obviously asked to be removed to get more flex in the boot. 🤷‍♂️

I know, people just don’t like facts I guess. 

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MxAddic
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5/8/2023 4:50pm

I know, people just don’t like facts I guess. 

The IQ of the average vitard is low, real low.

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Moto_Geek
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5/8/2023 5:10pm

Here's Hopper excellent explanation.. I see this as more likely the cause. Bonus, see what a hyperextension prevention peg looks like. I had never heard of these. I would definitely run these on jumps. 

 

 

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Pop Shmoke
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5/8/2023 5:27pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2023 5:33pm

On the vital podcast today Lewis and Michael Lindsay talked about the modified boots. Lewis said that because the riders get a brand new pair of boots every single race that means that the boots are not broken in when they line up to race each saturday. This meant that some riders were struggling with the extension that they were able to get from their boots and were trying to find a fix to the issue. 
 

Apparently Jett and the Lawrence crew figured out that if you cut out the anti flexion bar in the front of the boots it opens up the range right away and now your brand new boots feel broken in. Apparently word got around and some other riders (including Eli) who really emphasize riding way up on the balls of their feet were doing this modification. Then Alpinestars themselves decided to make separate boots just for the pro riders which came without this piece installed from the factory.
 

It wasnt for every pro rider who used alpinestars, only a select few who had specifically asked for it were getting the modified boots, and Eli was one of the ppl getting them. Clearly looking back now this was probably a huge mistake and it would have been much better if they had found a different way to break in the boots without removing protective pieces, but its too late now. Going forward Im sure this is going to be a massive learning experience. We almost never hear about achilles injuries in mx/sx and even less so from a non crash. Its most likely not a coincidence that one of the couple riders with specifically modified boots to allow a lot more flex was injured badly by his foot flexing too far on a jump we see riders do thousands of times per year. 

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1
5/8/2023 5:43pm

All I could think of Saturday night was this:

Axell-Hodges-Crash

 

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1
5/8/2023 5:55pm

In my post saying that  I thought there could have been something not right with the boots. I was not blaming Alpinestars for the injury. I meant that there could have been a defect , or the mod's that Eli has run might have contributed  to the situation. 

Eli always rides on the balls of his feet like he was when he landed a little long and G'ed out into the take off . It was exactly how  most of the top guys would want to have their feet placed . That's why its so strange to me how he's done similar stuff 100's of times this season and not been injured. Its such a strange thing. I don't see what he could have done differently  other than not go a little long. Landing on his arches in those rutts could have caused hi to catch his toes on the rut and be folded under the pegs. I've had that happen . Maybe he was a tad more forward than was ideal. I should have been clearer that I was thinking it was more a freak thing or the mod that he asked for, than something caused by the boot.  And that it was just my first thought until I thought more about it. Not that anybody really cares.  And I think the tech 10's are some of the most protective boots around. They doo wearout faster than the other brands . It would be cool if Alpinestars looks into what happened and maybe figure out a way to prevent it while still offering the movement those guys want.  

1
Brent
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5/8/2023 6:07pm
JBlain619 wrote:
Why would you think the bottom buckle of a boot being loose cause an Achilles rupture??  That bottom buckle is more designed for support of the...

Why would you think the bottom buckle of a boot being loose cause an Achilles rupture??  That bottom buckle is more designed for support of the foot, nothing to do with supporting the Achilles. 

Jaymz wrote:
But yet from that photo the boot did fail and the tendon indeed did rupture. Same result if the boot doesn't fail? Hard to say... But...

But yet from that photo the boot did fail and the tendon indeed did rupture.

Same result if the boot doesn't fail? Hard to say... But I'd guess no.

JBlain619 wrote:
That buckle has nothing to do with hyper-flexion, which is what caused the Achilles to rupture. So no, the buckle had nothing to do with it. ...

That buckle has nothing to do with hyper-flexion, which is what caused the Achilles to rupture. So no, the buckle had nothing to do with it. 

This is the likely culprit, found this in another thread. "Listen to the latest VitalMX podcast. They talk about Eli and the Lawrences using Tech 10s with the hyper flexion ribs removed to give the boot more flex"

This is the most likely culprit.

anyone who wears Tech 10’s knows that there is an inner bootie with metal stops on the ankles to prevent hyper extension. 

I have seen other guys that wear  A-10s use the older bootie with the hyper extension guards removed or notched to allow for more flexibility, maybe that was the case here?

I’m sure that  A-stars is not thrilled with all the close ups and video showing Eli hyper-extending  his Achilles in their premium product…

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Gravel
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5/8/2023 6:12pm

I know, people just don’t like facts I guess. 

MxAddic wrote:

The IQ of the average vitard is low, real low.

And half are dumber than average!

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StillSmokin
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5/8/2023 7:26pm

Lulz

AlpineTurds

7
soggy
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5/8/2023 7:30pm
JBlain619 wrote:
Why would you think the bottom buckle of a boot being loose cause an Achilles rupture??  That bottom buckle is more designed for support of the...

Why would you think the bottom buckle of a boot being loose cause an Achilles rupture??  That bottom buckle is more designed for support of the foot, nothing to do with supporting the Achilles. 

Jaymz wrote:
But yet from that photo the boot did fail and the tendon indeed did rupture. Same result if the boot doesn't fail? Hard to say... But...

But yet from that photo the boot did fail and the tendon indeed did rupture.

Same result if the boot doesn't fail? Hard to say... But I'd guess no.

There is no evidence the boot failed. 

3
PTshox
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5/8/2023 10:23pm
He's got a brand new one anyway...    

He's got a brand new one anyway...

345855396 745848003887200 3852875245216067896 n 0

 

I wore that exact same boot... It sucked. 

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1
Goldmember
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5/9/2023 12:19am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2023 5:02am
Pop Shmoke wrote:
On the vital podcast today Lewis and Michael Lindsay talked about the modified boots. Lewis said that because the riders get a brand new pair of...

On the vital podcast today Lewis and Michael Lindsay talked about the modified boots. Lewis said that because the riders get a brand new pair of boots every single race that means that the boots are not broken in when they line up to race each saturday. This meant that some riders were struggling with the extension that they were able to get from their boots and were trying to find a fix to the issue. 
 

Apparently Jett and the Lawrence crew figured out that if you cut out the anti flexion bar in the front of the boots it opens up the range right away and now your brand new boots feel broken in. Apparently word got around and some other riders (including Eli) who really emphasize riding way up on the balls of their feet were doing this modification. Then Alpinestars themselves decided to make separate boots just for the pro riders which came without this piece installed from the factory.
 

It wasnt for every pro rider who used alpinestars, only a select few who had specifically asked for it were getting the modified boots, and Eli was one of the ppl getting them. Clearly looking back now this was probably a huge mistake and it would have been much better if they had found a different way to break in the boots without removing protective pieces, but its too late now. Going forward Im sure this is going to be a massive learning experience. We almost never hear about achilles injuries in mx/sx and even less so from a non crash. Its most likely not a coincidence that one of the couple riders with specifically modified boots to allow a lot more flex was injured badly by his foot flexing too far on a jump we see riders do thousands of times per year. 

Inverted analysis in my opinion.

Eli's tendon ruptured in the normal tendon/calf muscle movement range, and the boot hyper flexion occurred after the failure allowed his foot to over-rotate dorsally.

Even with the restraint offered by intact flexion limiting in the boot, the forces involved after a tendon break are many times the riders weight and would have put an extreme load that the leather and plastic couldn't restrain.

Eli has said since words to the effect that the G out was by no means the wors't he's experienced.

 

1
Goldmember
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5/9/2023 1:06am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2023 5:03am
POWLEY256 wrote:
Love how people are blaming the buckles being loose even tho its clear that he doesnt have the rubber bumpers on the front of the boot...

Love how people are blaming the buckles being loose even tho its clear that he doesnt have the rubber bumpers on the front of the boot which are Litrally designed to help prevent that exact kind of injury 🤦🏼‍♂️😂😂  you cant blame astars for something that eli has obviously asked to be removed to get more flex in the boot. 🤷‍♂️

The limiters are a gimmick.

The only way to stop flexion is to use a almost rigid cast- fiberglass or heavy plaster - or a special orthotic boot- which is what they do post Achilles tendon surgery.

3
5/9/2023 3:44am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2023 3:44am

His achilles failed not the boot. 
 

The achilles failed = extreme boot flex. 
 

It’s like you want to say his boot failed and that caused the achilles to rupture. That’s not what happen. 

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