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I agree with everything. Gypsy asked Chad if he would have difficulty getting parts during covid when every manufacturer was having issues. Chad said nope we are dialed.
Don't promise chicken salad when all you have is chicken shit.
It’s just so odd to root for a new type of motorcycle to fail. I want development and new technology in the sport.
I don't think most of the people criticizing are rooting for anything to fail. It's the relentless hype, no deliveries, claims of greatest bike ever, etc., etc. that warrants skepticism.
They are not new technology.
Electric bikes predate IC bikes by about 8 years (Gustave Trouve April 19, 1881 demonstrated an electric trycycle in Paris, years before the IC engine was around) and have failed in comparison ever since and for the same reasons they do now. Range, weight and price. You cannot have all three.
They are special needs with all sorts of impractical allowances required to be comparable to IC.
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But what’s the problem for you if you haven’t ordered one?
Twist throttle vs pedal assist is the difference on MTB trails.
I do highly doubt it.
How long have electric cars been around? A lot of manufacturers offer electric models, but they make up a very small percentage of their overall sales and they still haven't been adapted by masses worldwide.
Why would off-road motorcycles all of the sudden be taken over by electric bikes?
Don't get me wrong, I do think they have a place in the market, but I don't see them taking over the entire segment for a long time.
I have no idea if you read the interview or not, but what he says makes a lot of sense.
Until Stark or another manufacturer comes along and proves the concept is truly a viable option, I don't think the established manufacturers are worried about releasing full size electric dirt bikes just yet.
Alta was around for a number of years and none of the big manufacturers felt threatened enough to release an electric model. There must be a reason for that, no?
If you've seen my post you'll know that I'm not against them and that I think they should have their own series like Formula E. I think that's the best way to grow the sport of off-road motorcycling.
Haha sorry to spook ya
There are many problems. They are way too expensive for an unproven bike. I have serious doubts about the range. I will never put a nonrefundable deposit on a product that doesn't exist. I have no idea when or if I would ever get it. I have no idea if it is even a good bike. I like ICE engines. And I don't want to explode. Is that enough?
Im not against electric and I know they will exist and have their place. Just way too many unknowns right now.
Hey man, you do you. Thats fine. In the meantime, ill keep having a blast shredding these awesome electric dirtbikes.
That's it 100 percent. Could have went about it a different way.
I think there is a reason hybrid cars are dominating the auto market (including hyper and super car markets). Full electric vehicles have to many limitations…I think the same will be true of full electric dirt bikes.
Just like full electric cars, for electric dirt bikes, there is a small corner of the market where they will do well…but I don’t see them ever gaining mass market share and all the major manufactures completely (or even largely) replacing their ice bikes with full electric dirt bikes.
Enjoy. But there is certainly something odd with your overzealous hyping of anything electric.
This is correct. Electric cars only went as far as they did because of politics. Manufacturers have always known, and are finally starting to speak up about it, that hybrid is much more viable technology.
I‘ve read the interviews with Pit and his boss and they make sense from their point of view. I also know that your not against eMX, just more skeptical than I am.
I just think the time has come that the technology is good and cheap enough to be the better alternative for moto (not off-road). Everybody in moto is just focused on speed and there’s no question that an eMX will be faster than a gas bike (I‘d love to hear some good arguments against that statement). At the same time noise and environmental concerns are the biggest enemies and that would also be fixed by eMXs bikes (at least where I live).
So in my opinion they‘ll take off and the established manufacturers will bring their own versions soon.
edit: about the Alta: for me the Alta always seemed like the quirky prototype and the Varg looks like the real deal. Looking at the sold/ordered numbers of both, I can’t be the only one.
That’s your reasons not to order one and that’s okay. At lot of people think differently, order one and that’s okay too. So what’s your point?
how are hybrids dominating the auto market when in 2021 they were 5.5% of new car sales?
Thats your opinion and again, thats fine. Im not going to stop having fun on electric just because people cant understand why its fun or think its not viable. You're not hurting my feelings. I actually wish you and others would just try one and see for yourself how much fun they are. Sure they arent perfect for everything, but for my use case, electric dirtbikes are absolutely viable and sound options and thats why ive owned 2 over the past 5 years, alongside owning gas bikes as well. I dont hate on people because they still ride 2 strokes or 4 strokes or drive diesel trucks. Let people buy and enjoy what they want and lets all coexist and have fun shredding dirtbikes, regardless of the method of getting that rear tire to spin. Vast majority of us posting on these forums are enthusiasts of riding, who cares how people enjoy it?
Pit Row
guy I work with just got some dorky electric car and with the most defeated look on his face explained to me that "well if I went to ___, I'd have to get gas along the way so its really the same difference" while ignoring that it doesnt take 75 minutes to get gas. Oh, he also has to order some $200 adapter to charge his little tykes cruiser which is pretty comical too.
Electric cars are like vegan diets. We dont really hate the cars as much as the people who drive them. This is why you guys have your own containment board on here lol
Sorry, I wasn’t clear, I meant relative to full electric vehicles (fully electric was less than 1% of auto sales, compared to 5% for hybrids)….
Yeah, my point was, I’ll ride whatever is the most fun and performs the best. If Stark is delivering that, or even close, that is great. They are a startup who need a ton of capital to manufacture their product, I don’t get all bent out of shape that they hype said product. If they come close to delivering on what they promised, it will have enough range for 95 percent of moto guys, and be a great bike. So I am patiently waiting to see what they deliver, and hoping that they do.
Surely you jest. What started out as warranted skepticism has evolved into predictions of near-dystopia, the latest example being that the Vargs will all become engulfed in inextinguishable fires once a fallen twig lightly brushes against their vulnerable motors. What's next? - that the sub-aural hum of their electric powerplants will attract a plague of locusts? Some have gone so far as to say they'll quit the sport entirely if the Vargs aren't prevented from entering high-level professional competition. These silly rantings have bore little or no fruit, and that nifty stack of 18,000 pre-orders proves the futility of their efforts rather emphatically, does it not? If the Basket Of Ignorables truly had the pure motive they insist they do, they could start a new thread simply called, "Reasons why I don't want a Stark Varg" - but they don't and they won't, and the reasons why are sadly obvious to anyone who has experience with pessimistic narcissists. In order to get the fix they're after, they need a certain type of person to get upset with them while another type of person eggs them on. They're not after an actual answer or solution or insight, they want THE GAME. It's pathological.
The "relentless hype" that gets repeatedly mentioned has mostly come in the form of glowing reviews by professional test riders who evaluate motocross bikes for a living, and yet the B.O.I. sees those very people as lacking credibility and in need of stricter oversight. To that I say, the fact that the results aren't what you'd hoped for doesn't mean the game was rigged. As for the delays, I think I speak for the vast majority of buyers when I say we'd rather have the bikes be late than have them be rushed, and since most of the people actually complaining would rather ride a sway-back donkey than ride an electric motocross bike, the endless bitching about elongated timelines seems more than a bit dubious. You don't like waiting? Then don't get in the f-ing queue.
Answer me this: does anyone think Pit Beier and/or the rest of the OEM development heads never phoned any of those test riders and spoke to them personally to get a fuller picture of what they experienced riding the Varg? And if they did, do you think they didn't receive the news they feared most, news that crushed the viability of the E-motocoss bike they already had in development? For those of you who answer "yes" to either of those queries, I'll just say that the world will very likely frequently disappoint you. It will REWARD your reflexively negative thoughts and opinions by NOURISHING them, and that is truly unfortunate.
Don't fret, you've always got that precious downvote you can employ to express your predictable displeasure with my post, I just wouldn't bet on it having the effect you hope it might, even if you do press extra-hard on the button after having read this. Then again, I don't bet.
Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where it will take an eternity to recapture their capital and turn a profit. With the auto industry, it's different. Hundreds of millions of people drive vehicles every day. As mentioned in my other post, waiting for someone else to prove it's a valuable option makes sense. Alta spent millions of dollars and went bankrupt. Time will tell if Stark will become a success or suffer the same fate as Alta.
Regarding electric bikes being faster, people are already saying that the 450s are too fast. There are very few amounts of riders who can ride a 450 to its full potential. Building faster bikes that are easier to ride doesn't solve the problem. With no clutch to help control the power delivery, it could spell total disaster for some people. There's a video of Ronnie Renner whisky throttling the Alta. It happened so fast and that's with a very experienced dirt bike rider.
I have yet to see and hear how the Stark performs in different conditions. All I've seen are them riding the same hard-pack track in Spain. Josh Mosiman rode an Alta in the sand at Club MX and mentioned something along the lines that it wasn't great, and it went nowhere. I no longer ride, but that would be a big concern for me. All we have around my area is sand and deep sand. I would hate to pay 15k for a bike that can't complete a single 20-30 minute moto let alone multiple motos in a day without sitting around for hours waiting for it to recharge.
I'm not saying that their bike can't perform in different conditions. To my knowledge, they just haven't shown or talked about it.
IMO, beginners on 80HP bikes are a recipe for disaster.
I'm rendering a raw GoPro from my last full moto in Barcelona on the Stark Varg, for your enjoyment. Will be on my youtube channel in a few hours (4k takes a while to render and process).
https://www.youtube.com/@bwhaskell
I’ll make sure to turn it up. Nothing gets the senses going like the sound of a rotary emergency radio🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
I think it's important to remember that EV (cars/trucks) and off road E bikes are two different markets. Until folks get some hours on the Stark bikes we are just guessing but I will say this: IF the Stark is everything it looks to be and is faster on the track, buyers will put any negative aspects of the bike a distant second to winning.
Okay MAV, then please don't buy one, which should be fairly easy for you to do you since you no longer ride and thus would have little use for the bike. You say you don't have an aversion to electric, but anyone who reads your recent posts would find that somewhat hard to believe. I know I do. So then, since you brought it up, which ICE bike is actually safe to whiskey throttle? Just curious. And since you said that "building faster bikes that are easier to ride doesn't solve the problem" - again, I'm just curious here - which problem is that? The "going too fast" problem or the "easier to ride" problem? Because, to me, those don't even seem like real problems, so I'm a little lost. And since you mentioned sand, I have a friend who had an amazing sand track on his property, I rode it once and it reduced me to dust in mere minutes, but unfortunately, his neighbors got it shut down due to excessive noise. So then, which ICE bike is totally silent so that riding them on sand tracks near houses no longer causes noise issues? And lastly, if 18,000 pre-orders for an unproven bike developed by an unproven manufacturer DOESN'T indicate a potentially large market that a legitimate company like KTM could exploit by funding the development of a superior machine, what number of orders WOULD indicate that?
Hey, thanks in advance for the fantastic answers, I would never have thought of them on my own. I'm kinda dumb that way.
So much uncertainty - Red pill / Blue pill .. which reality will the future hold ?
The current debate is reminiscent of ; 'electric starting .. on a dirt bike ?'
Can one be self aware while using a gas can ?
What is the preferred method of extinguishing a chemical fire ?
And the most pressing question ; what will be the page count of this thread be by the time at least the 1st hundred Varg's gets delivered to customers ?
Says its delayed 10 more hours?
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