DC's 2-stroke answer...

lostboy819 10/14/2009 10:21pm
10/14/2009 10:21pm Edited Date/Time 10/16/2009 11:41am
lostboy819 wrote:
Bottom line is that the big four run MX and SX and DC does what they say,end of story and I can live with that.
BobbyM wrote:
no shit? let's see some proof...seriously. does DC have 4 red phones direct to japan and 1 to euroland or does that one matter? how do...
no shit? let's see some proof...seriously. does DC have 4 red phones direct to japan and 1 to euroland or does that one matter? how do they do it? when yamaha came out with the 4 banger were the other 3 japanese makers behind it or against? when did they all collude to take over the nats? does monster have anything to do with who wins a sx? do they try?

let's hear it lostboy... i am interested in the evidence why you say DC is a puppet.

is DC gonna cut his own dick off cuz he wants to bring back three wheelers to but the oems said no way yet he soldiers through just to get an atv series going?

what about ktm..are they players too?
I never said he was a puppet I said the big four call the shots, next time sober up before quoting things I didnt say. This is just another reason you get clicked on a weekly basis because you are too stupid to even read the quote you posted. Now im sure you will go off on one of drug induced drunkin rants and bring up magoo and Lacky but the bottom line is that your gas is getting old and maybe its time you just shut the F up you whiny prick.
Madmax31
Profile picture for user Madmax31
Posts
2129
Joined
1/7/2009
Location
Cincinnati, OH US
Fantasy
207th
Madmax31 10/14/2009 10:22pm
10/14/2009 10:22pm
I like DC and think he's a great ambasador for our sport, but this decission infuriates me to no F-ing end!!!!!!!

For all the good things he's done this is just amazingly stupid.

ogdeno
Profile picture for user ogdeno
Posts
316
Joined
8/27/2009
Location
Sydney AU
ogdeno 10/14/2009 10:27pm
10/14/2009 10:27pm
Madmax31 wrote:
I like DC and think he's a great ambasador for our sport, but this decission infuriates me to no F-ing end!!!!!!! For all the good things...
I like DC and think he's a great ambasador for our sport, but this decission infuriates me to no F-ing end!!!!!!!

For all the good things he's done this is just amazingly stupid.


I find it very unlikely that he's making this decision solo against advice from all sectors of the industry. I imagine he has a lot riding on this himself so hardly benefits from sabotage. I don't think it's fair to throw all of this at his feet.
DanDunes818
Profile picture for user DanDunes818
Posts
6979
Joined
10/11/2008
Location
Portland, OR US
DanDunes818 10/14/2009 10:30pm
10/14/2009 10:30pm
mxrose3 wrote:
Sad day for motocross.
DC buckled & $$ is the root of all evil.

Somebody start a 2 stroke series for up and coming pro's PLEASE!!!
The Rock wrote:
Doesn't the existing amateur series that culminates at Loretta Lynn's already allow 250 two strokes against 250 four strokes?
Yes at Lorettas and most local races the 250cc class is the 250cc class two stoke or four.

The Shop

See All »
CamP
Profile picture for user CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX US
CamP 10/14/2009 10:32pm
10/14/2009 10:32pm
The right answer is simple. Back to the three class format. The powers that be should revise the 2T displacement in each of the current classes and there should be a stand alone 125cc 2T class for 15-17yo racers so they don't have to go to Europe to race. The displacement limit of the 2T's in the 250 class should be raised to 200cc and the displacement limit of the 2T's in the 450 class should be raised to 400cc.

This would be fair racing.
DanDunes818
Profile picture for user DanDunes818
Posts
6979
Joined
10/11/2008
Location
Portland, OR US
DanDunes818 10/14/2009 10:47pm
10/14/2009 10:47pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2009 10:52pm
Void Main wrote:
No.

Reason: 250 vs 250 isn't fair.

That would imply that 125 vs 250 and 250 vs 450 is fair.
ogdeno--That is a horrible arguement sir.. Of course the top pros aren't begging to get back on four strokes. Top pros have it made w/4 strokes. The advantage top pros have in this era over privateers is far greater then it was in the early 80's with the works bikes that they outlawed with the production rule. The production rule has also been turned into a joke as well. Every rule that was made to protect the privateer and keep it fair has been turned into a joke by the 4 stroke and nobody cares. The top pros race $100-$200,000(sometimes more) technological pieces of art . Not to mention they're paid upwards of millions of dollars to ride these works bikes so why would they complain. The 4 stroke with a huge bankroll is a beautiful thing. Problem is other then the .0001 a % of guys in the sport that are top pro the other 99.99% don't have 100's of thousands of dollars to spend to compete with those guys. Or even the $2k to pay for new 250f motor rebuild multiple times a year.
ogdeno
Profile picture for user ogdeno
Posts
316
Joined
8/27/2009
Location
Sydney AU
ogdeno 10/14/2009 11:01pm
10/14/2009 11:01pm
The top pros ride the respective companies flagship mx machine which now is all 4t 450's or 250's. Young riders getting into the sport want to ride as close a bike to what their hero rides and others want the latest and greatest technology that has filtered down from the race track. I'm a plasterer here in Sydney Australia and works on and off at the moment which means there's little money left for riding (if any). I still manage to keep my yami wr 250f (laugh if you must but it flies!!) going just as i used to keep my yz 125 going. 4 strokes haven't driven me from the sport but welcomed me back with easy to use power that suits my skill level better I think. I do get your point though Dan.
DanDunes818
Profile picture for user DanDunes818
Posts
6979
Joined
10/11/2008
Location
Portland, OR US
DanDunes818 10/14/2009 11:26pm
10/14/2009 11:26pm
ogdeno wrote:
The top pros ride the respective companies flagship mx machine which now is all 4t 450's or 250's. Young riders getting into the sport want to...
The top pros ride the respective companies flagship mx machine which now is all 4t 450's or 250's. Young riders getting into the sport want to ride as close a bike to what their hero rides and others want the latest and greatest technology that has filtered down from the race track. I'm a plasterer here in Sydney Australia and works on and off at the moment which means there's little money left for riding (if any). I still manage to keep my yami wr 250f (laugh if you must but it flies!!) going just as i used to keep my yz 125 going. 4 strokes haven't driven me from the sport but welcomed me back with easy to use power that suits my skill level better I think. I do get your point though Dan.
I like you am not rich and I keep my 250f running on a minimal budget. The thing is we're not pros revving the shit out of our 250f motors 5 days a week . I don't know your routine but like a lot of recreational (I'm 30+A/B locally) racers I'm lucky I practice one day a week and race on the weekends. They run 30 min moto after 30 min motos revved to the rev limiters all week training. Then race sometimes 2 classes or more on the weekends and a lot of up and coming Jr, and Intermediate kids do the same/similiar routine. Where you and I may not need a rebuild in a full year of racing most of those examples I listed above are going to go through at least 2-3 rebuilds a year and a lot of times more. You really need a rich papa these days.
crowe176
Profile picture for user crowe176
Posts
6613
Joined
9/8/2006
Location
Spring Lake, MI US
crowe176 10/14/2009 11:27pm
10/14/2009 11:27pm
Shocking! /sarcasm


Honestly, did you hand jobs actually think 250 vs 250 was something that could happen with 129 "HEY DC" threads?
Sanchez
Profile picture for user Sanchez
Posts
156
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Potomac, MD US
Sanchez 10/14/2009 11:41pm
10/14/2009 11:41pm Edited Date/Time 10/15/2009 1:27am
bd wrote:
I think we should go back to MX I and MX II and add the following bikes to the class: MX I: 450F; 360T MX II...
I think we should go back to MX I and MX II and add the following bikes to the class:

MX I: 450F; 360T
MX II: 250F; 180T

It would be fair. However, a 125T in the 250F class is NOT fair no matter what DC, OEM, and the AMA say. In addition, a 250T in the 450F class in NOT fair.

I have a bad feeling they put the dagger in the heart of MX.
180 and 360cc displacements would seem about on par...nice ring to those numbers too.
DanDunes818
Profile picture for user DanDunes818
Posts
6979
Joined
10/11/2008
Location
Portland, OR US
DanDunes818 10/14/2009 11:44pm
10/14/2009 11:44pm
CamP wrote:
The right answer is simple. Back to the three class format. The powers that be should revise the 2T displacement in each of the current classes...
The right answer is simple. Back to the three class format. The powers that be should revise the 2T displacement in each of the current classes and there should be a stand alone 125cc 2T class for 15-17yo racers so they don't have to go to Europe to race. The displacement limit of the 2T's in the 250 class should be raised to 200cc and the displacement limit of the 2T's in the 450 class should be raised to 400cc.

This would be fair racing.
x2 --
ogdeno
Profile picture for user ogdeno
Posts
316
Joined
8/27/2009
Location
Sydney AU
ogdeno 10/14/2009 11:49pm
10/14/2009 11:49pm
Motocross has always been an expensive sport and I understand that 4t's compound that. If people want to compete at a competitive level they're going to, they're just going to sacrifice more. I can't see them bringing back an extinct class to race a nearly extinct bike.
HansiKursch 10/14/2009 11:58pm
10/14/2009 11:58pm
I say the manufacturers make bikes that drag big ol' anchors behind them slowing them down. The anchors cost somewhere around $2500 and wear out needing replacement often. Then they get rules passed that only bikes with the anchors can compete in sanctioned races

Ridiculous? It's pretty much what's going on now.
FlaNard
Profile picture for user FlaNard
Posts
3620
Joined
10/13/2009
Location
Layton, UT US
FlaNard 10/15/2009 12:00am
10/15/2009 12:00am
Sometimes 99% of the people wanting something isnt enough. Yet the local tracks have more two strokes each and every week. And under the fast kids...
andymoto
Profile picture for user andymoto
Posts
4771
Joined
11/28/2007
Location
Carmichael, CA US
andymoto 10/15/2009 1:31am
10/15/2009 1:31am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:45am
CamP wrote:
The right answer is simple. Back to the three class format. The powers that be should revise the 2T displacement in each of the current classes...
The right answer is simple. Back to the three class format. The powers that be should revise the 2T displacement in each of the current classes and there should be a stand alone 125cc 2T class for 15-17yo racers so they don't have to go to Europe to race. The displacement limit of the 2T's in the 250 class should be raised to 200cc and the displacement limit of the 2T's in the 450 class should be raised to 400cc.

This would be fair racing.
Not one of the MX hierarchy will listen to anything reasonable.

The OEMs control the market, racing; whatever they want.. They don't care about fair racing as you suggest in your post; just racing their existing F brand of their equipment. I give KTM way more credit for their diverse model line in MX. Yamaha got their waiver for the YZ400 and it's not out of the goodness of their hearts that they still make smoker YZs; still a market for 'em even though dealers want you to buy the F models and they don't want to admit YZs still sell..or have one in the back.

IMO, this was all collusion by the Big 4 to limit choice to the parts eating 4 strokers. In the last 1-2 yrs, the prices of good, used 2 stroke 250s have increased quite a bit. My pal in '06 bought an '05 RM250 with an extra top end kit for $2300. Now you're lucky to find and '02 or '03 for that here in '09.

Yamaha can offer all the 0% interest pipe dreams they want so then you can go buy $1,000 FMF megabomb and silencer for it or save up for $2K of service and parts when it disinegrates.

A grand for FMFs Titanium pipe/silencer. Everyones in on the gouging.

No one wants to make racing more affordable or fair; not DC, not the OEMs, the AMA, no one.



Sanchez
Profile picture for user Sanchez
Posts
156
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Potomac, MD US
Sanchez 10/15/2009 1:46am
10/15/2009 1:46am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:45am
Most everyone seems to argue the issue of "fairness" strictly on the basis of displacement/power, which (granted) is the the most obvious factor. But that doesn't speak to one of the principal advantages of the 4-stroke...it's easier/less-demanding for most to ride. And that seems to be the primary reason many claim they'd never switch back to a 2-stroke.

That being said, imagine (hypothetically) a fully automatic, traction-controlled 2-stroke that puts every bit of power to the ground, and more or less operates itself. Think that might narrow the engine-size disparity argument at bit? Bottom line is most racers will go with whatever offers a clear competitive advantage.
ogdeno
Profile picture for user ogdeno
Posts
316
Joined
8/27/2009
Location
Sydney AU
ogdeno 10/15/2009 2:41am
10/15/2009 2:41am
How much would that cost?
Paul-Africa 10/15/2009 2:48am
10/15/2009 2:48am


Unless MX becomes a sport for millionaires sometime soon, and riding kit becomes pale pink golfing gear, the OEM's are shooting themselves in the foot. The bottom is gonna fall out as it becomes more and more unaffordable.

Imagine car dealers only sold BMW's from now on? No other options. After a while, who would be driving cars?



Pit Row

See All »
RMZ819
Profile picture for user RMZ819
Posts
1320
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
RMZ819 10/15/2009 3:16am
10/15/2009 3:16am
Paul-Africa wrote:
[img]https://anabasius.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/the-faces-of-capitalism1.jpg[/img] Unless MX becomes a sport for millionaires sometime soon, and riding kit becomes pale pink golfing gear, the OEM's are shooting themselves in the foot...


Unless MX becomes a sport for millionaires sometime soon, and riding kit becomes pale pink golfing gear, the OEM's are shooting themselves in the foot. The bottom is gonna fall out as it becomes more and more unaffordable.

Imagine car dealers only sold BMW's from now on? No other options. After a while, who would be driving cars?



MX is is deep shit. Its a dying sport. But truth be told DC will make his money whether the sport is dying on the local level or not. He will always have full gates at the LL's qualifiers and thats all that really matters. His bottom line is the same no matter what. So there is no reason for him to piss off the OEM's. If he did whats in it for him???? DC did not become the Capone of this sport because he is a dumbass!!!
queen of spodes 10/15/2009 3:59am
10/15/2009 3:59am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:45am
tvo314 wrote:
I enjoyed my several 125's but I would never go back to 2 strokes now, and I doubt very many of the pros would either. I...
I enjoyed my several 125's but I would never go back to 2 strokes now, and I doubt very many of the pros would either. I think a lot of people's logic is clouded by nostalgia. Now lets get those 350's going. Thats the perfect race machine.
Nostalgia or $2000 engine repairs? For me the latter. I ride for fun and XR250's are too heavy & slow.
ImTheDude
Profile picture for user ImTheDude
Posts
318
Joined
8/20/2008
Location
Brookville, PA US
ImTheDude 10/15/2009 5:43am
10/15/2009 5:43am
Boooooo!

CR250Rider
Profile picture for user CR250Rider
Posts
6706
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Moses Lake, WA US
CR250Rider 10/15/2009 5:54am
10/15/2009 5:54am
The OEMS are scared, plain and simple.
Cygnus
Profile picture for user Cygnus
Posts
14846
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Hanover, CO US
Cygnus 10/15/2009 6:04am
10/15/2009 6:04am
RMZ819 wrote:
MX is is deep shit. Its a dying sport. But truth be told DC will make his money whether the sport is dying on the local...
MX is is deep shit. Its a dying sport. But truth be told DC will make his money whether the sport is dying on the local level or not. He will always have full gates at the LL's qualifiers and thats all that really matters. His bottom line is the same no matter what. So there is no reason for him to piss off the OEM's. If he did whats in it for him???? DC did not become the Capone of this sport because he is a dumbass!!!
I can't believe it. Hell froze over.

Super Secret Insider Guy 10/15/2009 6:17am
10/15/2009 6:17am
He's not trying to hide it guys. As he also said last night, without the manufacturers we have no sport.

125 vs. 250F wasn't fair.
250 vs. 250F isn't fair.
144 vs. 250F isn't fair.
Other displacements don't exist.

2 stroke vs. 4 stroke isn't fair. 4 strokes win.

You are not a pro, so ride whatever you want.
mxrose3
Profile picture for user mxrose3
Posts
2321
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Delmar, DE US
mxrose3 10/15/2009 6:22am
10/15/2009 6:22am
This is kinda like the flat track series.
Handicap everbody else so nothing else but Harley's can compete.



in this case, the Harley is the 4 stroke.
-eagle-
Profile picture for user -eagle-
Posts
1610
Joined
5/9/2008
Location
ZW
-eagle- 10/15/2009 6:40am
10/15/2009 6:40am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:45am


Operating on a bigger scale than this one issue so I give credit where its due:

Title sponsor, tv, one day format.


He did the interview on the side of the road in compton while checking out some out west stuff he didn't disclose. Basically let the cat out of the bag about having a national in Atlanta. Said he'd be down there in the next week. In an attempt to make the nats better; this 2 stroke thing is way down the priority list. I understand that and I"m a full blow 2 stroke guy.


That being said: I would have respected this honest answer LAST YEAR when he hid behind the lead law and some other bullshit that has nothing to do with pro racing.

He also played the oem card that nobody mentioned when kawi & suzuki had no 250 or 450 4 strokes.


Its over guys, just like I said before the last thread made it into the teens.

The big 4 arent' going to make a 180'ish smoker to compete with their 250f or a 300'ish to compete with thier 450.

mxrose3
Profile picture for user mxrose3
Posts
2321
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Delmar, DE US
mxrose3 10/15/2009 7:01am
10/15/2009 7:01am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:45am
-eagle- wrote:
Operating on a bigger scale than this one issue so I give credit where its due: Title sponsor, tv, one day format. He did the interview...


Operating on a bigger scale than this one issue so I give credit where its due:

Title sponsor, tv, one day format.


He did the interview on the side of the road in compton while checking out some out west stuff he didn't disclose. Basically let the cat out of the bag about having a national in Atlanta. Said he'd be down there in the next week. In an attempt to make the nats better; this 2 stroke thing is way down the priority list. I understand that and I"m a full blow 2 stroke guy.


That being said: I would have respected this honest answer LAST YEAR when he hid behind the lead law and some other bullshit that has nothing to do with pro racing.

He also played the oem card that nobody mentioned when kawi & suzuki had no 250 or 450 4 strokes.


Its over guys, just like I said before the last thread made it into the teens.

The big 4 arent' going to make a 180'ish smoker to compete with their 250f or a 300'ish to compete with thier 450.

Take a look at what your last sentence starts with:
"The big 4 ...."
I could care less about the big 4 right now. The Euro companies will build anything if there is a need for it.
Put the rule out there, and it will get built.
WORCSRacer
Profile picture for user WORCSRacer
Posts
2295
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Clovis, CA US
WORCSRacer 10/15/2009 7:11am
10/15/2009 7:11am
How many time do the facts need to be stated? The MX public made its choice and the choice was 4 strokes. Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki couldn't give them away when they were being sold here and KTM and Yamaha aren't exactly setting sales records with their 2 stroke model lines either.

I love to ride 2 strokes but I sure as hell don't want to race one against a 4 stroke.
FLvet
Profile picture for user FLvet
Posts
381
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Gainesville, FL US
FLvet 10/15/2009 7:11am
10/15/2009 7:11am
The OEM's are bailing by farming out to aftermarket teams. Besides they make a mint off four stroke parts. But they'll shoot themselves in the foot as the prices get higher and the bikes more complex. I like doing $90.00 top ends on my YZ250. Two strokes should be required for all am racing and then the pros should be run what you brung with works bikes. DC can't stand up to the Big Four anymore than I can. They call the shots. For now.
Racer92
Profile picture for user Racer92
Posts
17965
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Central, TX US
Racer92 10/15/2009 7:18am
10/15/2009 7:18am
This is EXACTLY like I said long ago. The peons dont matter and they are going to do whatever the OEMs tell them to do. Can somebody find that old thread?

"Let them eat cake !"

Post a reply to: DC's 2-stroke answer...