Stark Varg Reviews

The real Sasquatch 3/7/2023 12:27pm
3/7/2023 12:27pm
Drunkonunleaded wrote:
The point was that I would not put much stock in what is effectively thinly-veiled advertising that occured in a tightly-controlled environment.  I'm not sure why...

The point was that I would not put much stock in what is effectively thinly-veiled advertising that occured in a tightly-controlled environment.  I'm not sure why you did not understand this the first two times that I said it.

When production units get in the hands of retail customers, that is when the world will know whether the stark is this generation's CR250 Elsinore or Cannondale.  There are valid criticisms in this thread that you simply chose to overlook and/or attempt to shout over via your long-winded rants.

number six wrote:
The lack of understanding is a result of the contradictory example provided ; Ferrari didn't provide four competing manufacturers current machines to compare to theirs back-to-back...

The lack of understanding is a result of the contradictory example provided ; Ferrari didn't provide four competing manufacturers current machines to compare to theirs back-to-back on the same day, they just massaged the car to optimize performance on a given track. 

Stark did provide the competition's machines.  

KTM, Yamaha, Gas Gas, Husky & Kawasaki's current 450's were on site & ready to ride, in fact Stark pretty much insisted the testers also ride the gas bikes ... as part of that 'tightly controlled' media event / test. 

No MX bike manufacturer ( or auto maker ? ) has ever done such a thing.  

So all context evaporates when the very thing meant to underline a statement isn't remotely applicable & thus the stated premise fails to meet the threshold of 'valid criticisms' much less a cogent point.    

The Elsinore / Cannondale analogy IS potentially valid though & a pretty good one, time will tell buckaroo's. 

Particularly interested in the outcome when Varg gets dropped hard in some rocks & that battery case meets a hard, pointy object.    ..  what rhymes with ; 'chemical fire' ?  

Goldmember wrote:
The complaint was about the complete lack of rigorous testing for range, performance and component overheating (and subsequent effects) of those prototypes; the things on every...

The complaint was about the complete lack of rigorous testing for range, performance and component overheating (and subsequent effects) of those prototypes; the things on every thinking person's mind, not if it compared well to other machines.

5 minute pleasure rides are not tests of something touted as the best MX bike ever; a 35 minute ride, flat out on a demanding track, by a pro on a hot day is the minimum hurdle.

Most understand that feed a decent size electric machine enough current and it has huge area under the curve and great performance- and probably good dynamics. Not everybody realises that induction type, rare earth magnet motors can be completely ruined with a single high temperature excursion- as can various other components, like the controller, and the battery.

Of course another few months has gone by since those experimental-something bikes were ridden and there is no reliable information at all about deliveries or even any proper information on it's final specification, as opposed to the sales hype.

Really, at this stage, the Stark is a Brand without a Product and those who say the Eicher Motors buy in was really a concealed buy out have some grounds.

 

With the bikes being prototypes , I think Stark was just wanting to show how the bikes could perform and compare to their gas competition while fresh. As far as lap times  and handling head to head.   If you look back to the first aluminium framed CR's . Those pre production  bikes were awesome. They handled  great and were a very good bike overall.  But then the changes they made to the production models  made them totally different bikes.  A  durability test may not have valid results if the prototypes had parts  that will be made with a different process when the production bikes are built.  CNC or 3d printed VS cast or injection molded. Maybe they did not have the software ready to deal with low voltage and running the batteries out of power and the prototypes would act in a way that the production models will not act. 

Maybe it was a sign that the range is not up to what they say it is.  What have they ( Stark) said about the limited time allowed, and if they have said why, why do you not believe it?      Of course they wanted to show off their strengths . Everybody knows that range will  not be as long as people would like it to be at this early stage.  So why make the battery dyeing out at its stated range even be a part of the impressions? If the media is not able to experience it , then there is no chance that they make the entire article about how  what happens when the power runs out.  Do Yamaha and Honda let meadia guys go out and run their pre production prototypes out of gas? Since they can run out of gas, shouldn't that be a part of tests from now on? see how the bike performs when it runs out of gas on the face of a jump.  I get it that range is the biggest thing for most people. So maybe its a big variable.  And they chose to highlight the parts of the bike that are less variable like handling and lap times. If they showed the bike ran 35 minutes at that track  would any of the doubters believe it anyway? The people that are hating on the Varg do not believe the positive things that have been said in the reviews. So why would that change if it seemed even more too good to be true?  

I would guess that if one of the big brands had a ride day like this , with pre production bikes , that it would also be highly controlled and regulated.  I really look forward to these bikes coming out and seeing what they are like in the real world.    

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semifreeguy
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semifreeguy 3/7/2023 2:56pm
3/7/2023 2:56pm
early wrote:
The production delays are not a big surprise and the revised timeliness are not that concerning at this point. I bet this bike comes out and...

The production delays are not a big surprise and the revised timeliness are not that concerning at this point.

I bet this bike comes out and is a step up from the Alta MXR but not a huge leap. Most riders will put it in map 2 or 3 (assuming 4 maps) the top map will basically be a novelty or start map. It will handle very well on hardback and moderate loam, it will lose the handling edge in sand and deep loam, it will also lose handling in mud but the ability to change maps will make up for that. The battery will not last 35 minutes in deep sand unless you run a more conservative map (harkening back to the days of preserving your bike for the moto). The bike may or may not run 35 minutes on hardpack/light loam at full power. The bike will not have a problem running local races with an hour or 2 of charge time between motos. Tracks will designate a charging area if it becomes an issue. The bike will be 90%-100% of what is expected for 95% of the buyers. It will have a few issues upon release hopefully nothing catastrophic. Many people will be happy with it, some will not be. 

Goldmember wrote:

Great story, but are you able to prove any of that?

That's what I was thinking. I was gonna ask this dude if he knows when I die because clearly he can tell the future. 

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early
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early 3/7/2023 3:02pm
3/7/2023 3:02pm
early wrote:
The production delays are not a big surprise and the revised timeliness are not that concerning at this point. I bet this bike comes out and...

The production delays are not a big surprise and the revised timeliness are not that concerning at this point.

I bet this bike comes out and is a step up from the Alta MXR but not a huge leap. Most riders will put it in map 2 or 3 (assuming 4 maps) the top map will basically be a novelty or start map. It will handle very well on hardback and moderate loam, it will lose the handling edge in sand and deep loam, it will also lose handling in mud but the ability to change maps will make up for that. The battery will not last 35 minutes in deep sand unless you run a more conservative map (harkening back to the days of preserving your bike for the moto). The bike may or may not run 35 minutes on hardpack/light loam at full power. The bike will not have a problem running local races with an hour or 2 of charge time between motos. Tracks will designate a charging area if it becomes an issue. The bike will be 90%-100% of what is expected for 95% of the buyers. It will have a few issues upon release hopefully nothing catastrophic. Many people will be happy with it, some will not be. 

Goldmember wrote:

Great story, but are you able to prove any of that?

semifreeguy wrote:

That's what I was thinking. I was gonna ask this dude if he knows when I die because clearly he can tell the future. 

2:46 am 

2
semifreeguy
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semifreeguy 3/7/2023 6:47pm
3/7/2023 6:47pm Edited Date/Time 3/7/2023 6:48pm
Goldmember wrote:

Great story, but are you able to prove any of that?

semifreeguy wrote:

That's what I was thinking. I was gonna ask this dude if he knows when I die because clearly he can tell the future. 

early wrote:

2:46 am 

Thank you but that news is bittersweet. Not as much time as I would have liked to accomplish my bucket list. Is it an electric bike explosion that does me in?

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early
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early 3/7/2023 7:58pm
3/7/2023 7:58pm
semifreeguy wrote:

That's what I was thinking. I was gonna ask this dude if he knows when I die because clearly he can tell the future. 

early wrote:

2:46 am 

semifreeguy wrote:
Thank you but that news is bittersweet. Not as much time as I would have liked to accomplish my bucket list. Is it an electric bike...

Thank you but that news is bittersweet. Not as much time as I would have liked to accomplish my bucket list. Is it an electric bike explosion that does me in?

I didn't say what day but I'd get on that bucket list.

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Goldmember
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Goldmember 3/10/2023 7:06am
3/10/2023 7:06am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
 

Woohoo

Screenshot 20230310 061620 Gmail

 

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 3/10/2023 7:09am
3/10/2023 7:09am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2023 7:10am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
 

Woohoo

Screenshot 20230310 061620 Gmail

 

Goldmember wrote:
That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp. Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right. The language...

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

You gotta have faith man, Chad is gonna pull through.

1
Magoofan
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Magoofan 3/10/2023 7:15am
3/10/2023 7:15am

"Fast approaching"

Smells like 2025 to me.

 

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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/10/2023 7:16am
3/10/2023 7:16am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
 

Woohoo

Screenshot 20230310 061620 Gmail

 

Goldmember wrote:
That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp. Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right. The language...

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

Good work, Silver Spurs, I am now finally convinced this company is a scam

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theycallmeebryan 3/10/2023 7:27am
3/10/2023 7:27am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
 

Woohoo

Screenshot 20230310 061620 Gmail

 

Goldmember wrote:
That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp. Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right. The language...

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

Man you must be super fun at parties Laughing

14
1
#434
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#434 3/10/2023 7:49am
3/10/2023 7:49am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2023 7:50am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
 

Woohoo

Screenshot 20230310 061620 Gmail

 

Goldmember wrote:
That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp. Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right. The language...

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

You gotta save some of your bitching and whining for the time when the first bikes will actually be delivered. Or even worse, when they turn out to be pretty decent and with more than 10 min of battery live...

Don’t use all your ammo yet!

5
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JK BRO
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JK BRO 3/10/2023 8:01am
3/10/2023 8:01am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
 

Woohoo

Screenshot 20230310 061620 Gmail

 

Oh shit, "weekly updates". Be sure to post up the updates for all to see.

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early
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early 3/10/2023 8:12am
3/10/2023 8:12am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2023 8:13am
Goldmember wrote:
That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp. Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right. The language...

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

Columbo here doesn't know that same day emails don't get a date in that spot. Expand the details and the dates there.

1
Goldmember
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Goldmember 3/10/2023 8:27am
3/10/2023 8:27am
early wrote:

Columbo here doesn't know that same day emails don't get a date in that spot. Expand the details and the dates there.

The email is in a letter form. 

Etiquette requires it be dated aside from any email sender date- which is not in an expanded view.

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#434
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#434 3/10/2023 8:29am
3/10/2023 8:29am
early wrote:

Columbo here doesn't know that same day emails don't get a date in that spot. Expand the details and the dates there.

Goldmember wrote:

The email is in a letter form. 

Etiquette requires it be dated aside from any email sender date- which is not in an expanded view.

Comedy Gold!

3
1
crashnburn11 3/10/2023 8:37am
3/10/2023 8:37am
early wrote:

Columbo here doesn't know that same day emails don't get a date in that spot. Expand the details and the dates there.

Goldmember wrote:

The email is in a letter form. 

Etiquette requires it be dated aside from any email sender date- which is not in an expanded view.

I receive letters form emails from companies all the time that are not dated this way.  It is fine Sherlock, move on to the next clue,

6

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early
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early 3/10/2023 8:40am
3/10/2023 8:40am
early wrote:

Columbo here doesn't know that same day emails don't get a date in that spot. Expand the details and the dates there.

Goldmember wrote:

The email is in a letter form. 

Etiquette requires it be dated aside from any email sender date- which is not in an expanded view.

It's Gmail on his phone, if he taps the down caret next to "to me" it shows the date and time.

Have you been cryogenically frozen for 40 years?

9
Dirty Points 3/10/2023 8:45am
3/10/2023 8:45am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2023 8:47am
Goldmember wrote:
That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp. Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right. The language...

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

early wrote:

Columbo here doesn't know that same day emails don't get a date in that spot. Expand the details and the dates there.

Or that email doesn't actually even have any formatting by spec (it is a pure text protocol), so there's no way it could be legislated that it has to be "top right"

holyroller1 3/10/2023 9:00am
3/10/2023 9:00am
Goldmember wrote:
That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp. Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right. The language...

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

Breaking the law, breaking the law.......

SmartSelect 20230310 115412 Gmail

 

7
SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 3/10/2023 9:02am
3/10/2023 9:02am

Since the 80hp option is just a difference in firmware, does anyone happen to know if you'd be able to buy the 60hp version and then upgrade to the 80hp at a later date if desired?

1
motoxxx599 3/10/2023 9:03am
3/10/2023 9:03am
Goldmember wrote:
That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp. Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right. The language...

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

holyroller1 wrote:
Breaking the law, breaking the law.......  

Breaking the law, breaking the law.......

SmartSelect 20230310 115412 Gmail

 

Man pizza is expensive these days

4
1
The real Sasquatch 3/10/2023 9:30am
3/10/2023 9:30am
SPYGUY wrote:
Since the 80hp option is just a difference in firmware, does anyone happen to know if you'd be able to buy the 60hp version and then...

Since the 80hp option is just a difference in firmware, does anyone happen to know if you'd be able to buy the 60hp version and then upgrade to the 80hp at a later date if desired?

I don't know for sure, But based on the model of most tech companies I would think that you should be able to purchase it after. They may charge more for it after the fact , or discount it if bought at the sametime to give people an incentive to buy.  As long as it is 100% just firmware , it would be silly to not offer the upgrade. Even if you had to go to a dealer and  have them load it , it would be strange not to offer it. 

I bet as time goes by, there will be aftermarket  tunes that can pull even more power out of them too.  Seems like most production items go a little conservative on power to increase reliability/stability .  I bet that it will be able to be make a bunch more power , but it would kill it faster and or potentially cause other problems. But people will always want to get more out of everything.   

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wvumounty
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wvumounty 3/10/2023 10:47am
3/10/2023 10:47am

I’m sure the email asking for your bank routing number will be clear!

4
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/10/2023 11:12am
3/10/2023 11:12am
Goldmember wrote:
That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp. Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right. The language...

That message is undated and unsigned even though it has a time stamp.

Emails are all supposed to be  dated, by law, top right.

The language used is interesting and not really confidence inspiring.

Who signs off an important business letter with an exclamation mark?

holyroller1 wrote:
Breaking the law, breaking the law.......  

Breaking the law, breaking the law.......

SmartSelect 20230310 115412 Gmail

 

motoxxx599 wrote:

Man pizza is expensive these days

A good nap is still free, though

3
quadzrulebro 3/10/2023 1:10pm
3/10/2023 1:10pm Edited Date/Time 3/10/2023 1:14pm

“full payment before it leaves the factory.”  Sounds like turtle neck guy might be in cahoots with a Nigerian prince.

Mine actually showed up last week.  I haven’t uncrated it yet, but I don’t think I really want it anymore.  Tell you what, if you send that “full payment” to my bank account, I’ll just ship you mine 😉

2
BobPA
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BobPA 3/10/2023 1:18pm
3/10/2023 1:18pm
holyroller1 wrote:
Breaking the law, breaking the law.......  

Breaking the law, breaking the law.......

SmartSelect 20230310 115412 Gmail

 

motoxxx599 wrote:

Man pizza is expensive these days

GrapeApe wrote:

A good nap is still free, though

As is Rocket League, doesn't really matter though

4
semifreeguy
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semifreeguy 3/10/2023 3:07pm
3/10/2023 3:07pm
quadzrulebro wrote:
“full payment before it leaves the factory.”  Sounds like turtle neck guy might be in cahoots with a Nigerian prince. Mine actually showed up last week...

“full payment before it leaves the factory.”  Sounds like turtle neck guy might be in cahoots with a Nigerian prince.

Mine actually showed up last week.  I haven’t uncrated it yet, but I don’t think I really want it anymore.  Tell you what, if you send that “full payment” to my bank account, I’ll just ship you mine 😉

You gotta be crazy to send this unproven company full payment. 

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number six
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number six 3/11/2023 8:38am
3/11/2023 8:38am
Goldmember wrote:

The email is in a letter form. 

Etiquette requires it be dated aside from any email sender date- which is not in an expanded view.

Who hurt you  ?  

.

2

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