How to get people out of C class?

profeshenal125 11/20/2022 7:39pm
11/20/2022 7:39pm
JM485 wrote:
That’s the reality around here though, most Vet A riders are definitely not winning 250C in this area because there’s so much sandbagging. I wouldn’t say...
That’s the reality around here though, most Vet A riders are definitely not winning 250C in this area because there’s so much sandbagging. I wouldn’t say that Vet A is slow, but 250C can be pretty stacked up near the front. Obviously there are some extremely fast Vet A guys that are legitimately pro speed but that’s not the norm.
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
That’s not the case in my area. Almost all Vet A riders would smoke the C class. There is regularly current or ex pros as well...
That’s not the case in my area. Almost all Vet A riders would smoke the C class. There is regularly current or ex pros as well as a 3x National Arenacross champion.
You forgot the Pro snow cross guys that race Mx to stay in shape for snow cross. I remember 1 of them at the sand tracks and pine ridge deep sand with hills and alot of jumps. He raced 25,30a legs bigger than MC and looked stronger than Larocco or Dowd. . He was faster than any 250,450 a rider on a mod yz250. I need 7 vertebrae and disk removed and neck surgery, knee. But I would like to race a couple 250c races. The 125 class is the main one and some 50+. Don’t care about the 250c ovr all just a good moto finish.
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Chris99Flannery 11/20/2022 7:48pm
11/20/2022 7:48pm
If you can make it to the race in the morning without having to piss twice on the drive there, well you are no vet!
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profeshenal125 11/20/2022 8:49pm
11/20/2022 8:49pm
Chris99Flannery wrote:
If you can make it to the race in the morning without having to piss twice on the drive there, well you are no vet!
Haha yeah. I had blood in a couple urine test . Specialist took 2 months to contact me. I wasn’t going to do anything about it but was curious if it cleared. The waiting room was all grandpas. It was probably from 3 months of a strong antiflamatory but could’ve been from riding . Last time I rode it was gnarly rough and figuring that it was my last ride of the yr or who knows my life. It’s super dangerous out here. I rode really hard landing off a floater and landing in square holes and sharp peaks . I looked down at my arms 1 time I was shocked at how they where getting beaten. I was loose and let the 04 cr125 chassis work. I just thought I bet my insides r taking a bigger beating.
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profeshenal125 11/21/2022 9:03am
11/21/2022 9:03am
Create a buisness with a app. Riders pay 5k to join but hv 10k guarantee for 30,40A 15 rounds in the series. With 2 double payout rounds.
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Springcreek
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Springcreek 11/21/2022 9:31am
11/21/2022 9:31am
MX Dad #27 wrote:
*No Loretta Lynn's "C" classes, period. *No "C" class contingency, period. *No local "C" class Champions. *No "C" classes on amateur day at nationals. *No "C"...
*No Loretta Lynn's "C" classes, period.
*No "C" class contingency, period.
*No local "C" class Champions.
*No "C" classes on amateur day at nationals.
*No "C" classes at any amateur national.
*Strict "point out" or "time out" rules.
*As the "C" class is usually the largest, have a "Win one get moved up" rule.

These things will never happen, but you asked "How to get people out of the "C" class".
include B class in that also.
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Caseclosed713 11/21/2022 9:32am
11/21/2022 9:32am
C class for life here, but I don't race anymore or ride as much as I'd like to. My last year of racing in 2007 I was in 250 C and gradually improving. I was running 2nd in my last race, but crashed in my favorite section of the track and ended up in the hospital. I quit racing after that, now I'm 33 and afraid of getting of hurt so I never push myself. Sometimes I feel the urge to race Vet C and see if I could eventually move up to B, but the desire isn't really there.
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MXR
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MXR 11/21/2022 10:10am
11/21/2022 10:10am
Change the name of C class to the Squid Class
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Neil GrabNgargle 11/21/2022 11:29am
11/21/2022 11:29am
8tensolutions wrote:
Why does anyone care unless you're the one in the C class getting worked by these guys? If you are, go faster rather than complaining someone...
Why does anyone care unless you're the one in the C class getting worked by these guys? If you are, go faster rather than complaining someone faster than you is in the wrong class. If not, these guys pay to ride, buy bikes and parts, and show up helping to keep tracks open. If they want to sandbag, it doesn't hurt anyone.

Tell us you are a sandbagger without telling us you are a sandbagger.

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wildbill
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wildbill 11/21/2022 12:46pm
11/21/2022 12:46pm
Simple, have peers and fellow racers tell you when. In 97, I bought a 500 and raced Eugene Oregon's open C class. I won the championship that year and then went to a desert GP out in Millican. I holeshot both days and won Saturday. Sunday, a former national level pro passed me in the whoops tapped out on his steering dampened KTM. My CR was scary above 70 mph in the whoops so I let him go and settled for 2nd. An injured expert desert racer was flagging that day and here he is watching me roost everyone pinned in 5th . He told me that I could only race "expert" next time, because I was too fast for C. It worked and I moved up to vet intermediate, or B class, for those struggling with the designations.






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Payup_199
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Payup_199 11/21/2022 2:07pm
11/21/2022 2:07pm
They don't have a D class by me so I've been C class for 20 years Laughing Thanks a lot a** Tongue Still hoping for my factory ride
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 11/21/2022 7:25pm
11/21/2022 7:25pm
8tensolutions wrote:
Why does anyone care unless you're the one in the C class getting worked by these guys? If you are, go faster rather than complaining someone...
Why does anyone care unless you're the one in the C class getting worked by these guys? If you are, go faster rather than complaining someone faster than you is in the wrong class. If not, these guys pay to ride, buy bikes and parts, and show up helping to keep tracks open. If they want to sandbag, it doesn't hurt anyone.

Neil GrabNgargle wrote:
Tell us you are a sandbagger without telling us you are a sandbagger.

And nobody has answered my question........weird
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Jrey2
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Jrey2 11/21/2022 8:55pm
11/21/2022 8:55pm
8tensolutions wrote:
Why does anyone care unless you're the one in the C class getting worked by these guys? If you are, go faster rather than complaining someone...
Why does anyone care unless you're the one in the C class getting worked by these guys? If you are, go faster rather than complaining someone faster than you is in the wrong class. If not, these guys pay to ride, buy bikes and parts, and show up helping to keep tracks open. If they want to sandbag, it doesn't hurt anyone.

Neil GrabNgargle wrote:
Tell us you are a sandbagger without telling us you are a sandbagger.

8tensolutions wrote:
And nobody has answered my question........weird
Because your “question” is not worth answering but I will because I can’t stand for you to think you “got him”

People care because they want to show up and participate on a level playing field. They want a legit chance for things to go their way. They want to be able to pull a lucky hole shot and ride wide and maybe win. This keeps it fun. And it DOES hurt local racing, it’s the reason I stopped racing seriously. I’m a “faster” b racer and if I decide to do any decent races, here’s me racing against factory kids only 3 seconds slower than top 10 AMA pros. In other words, it’s me vs max vohland except he takes 3 bad lines each lap. I’ll keep my money for training.

Tell your kid it’s time to get out of 250D.
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 11/21/2022 9:19pm
11/21/2022 9:19pm
Neil GrabNgargle wrote:
Tell us you are a sandbagger without telling us you are a sandbagger.

8tensolutions wrote:
And nobody has answered my question........weird
Jrey2 wrote:
Because your “question” is not worth answering but I will because I can’t stand for you to think you “got him” People care because they want...
Because your “question” is not worth answering but I will because I can’t stand for you to think you “got him”

People care because they want to show up and participate on a level playing field. They want a legit chance for things to go their way. They want to be able to pull a lucky hole shot and ride wide and maybe win. This keeps it fun. And it DOES hurt local racing, it’s the reason I stopped racing seriously. I’m a “faster” b racer and if I decide to do any decent races, here’s me racing against factory kids only 3 seconds slower than top 10 AMA pros. In other words, it’s me vs max vohland except he takes 3 bad lines each lap. I’ll keep my money for training.

Tell your kid it’s time to get out of 250D.
So because you couldn't win your class, it was the competitions fault because they had better bikes and preparation.....and you wanted everything to be "equal". Since it didn't go your way, you quit. Got it.

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mattyhamz2 11/21/2022 9:39pm
11/21/2022 9:39pm Edited Date/Time 11/22/2022 8:16am
8tensolutions wrote:
And nobody has answered my question........weird
Jrey2 wrote:
Because your “question” is not worth answering but I will because I can’t stand for you to think you “got him” People care because they want...
Because your “question” is not worth answering but I will because I can’t stand for you to think you “got him”

People care because they want to show up and participate on a level playing field. They want a legit chance for things to go their way. They want to be able to pull a lucky hole shot and ride wide and maybe win. This keeps it fun. And it DOES hurt local racing, it’s the reason I stopped racing seriously. I’m a “faster” b racer and if I decide to do any decent races, here’s me racing against factory kids only 3 seconds slower than top 10 AMA pros. In other words, it’s me vs max vohland except he takes 3 bad lines each lap. I’ll keep my money for training.

Tell your kid it’s time to get out of 250D.
8tensolutions wrote:
So because you couldn't win your class, it was the competitions fault because they had better bikes and preparation.....and you wanted everything to be "equal". Since...
So because you couldn't win your class, it was the competitions fault because they had better bikes and preparation.....and you wanted everything to be "equal". Since it didn't go your way, you quit. Got it.

Isn't that kind of the whole point of different classes of skill level and age?

Under your thoughts we should just get rid of the current class structure and make it 50, 65, 85, 125/250F and Open. we can have fast guys with first timers and just have three lines of each class. What could go wrong?
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wm741
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wm741 11/22/2022 3:19am
11/22/2022 3:19am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Around here they lump vet B/C together into one class . Maybe that's the answer.
They do the opposite here in Texas for the most part which is why guys don’t want to move up. They make you go from C to A/B. I like the B/C idea.
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Richy
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Richy 11/22/2022 5:13am
11/22/2022 5:13am
Jrey2 wrote:
Because your “question” is not worth answering but I will because I can’t stand for you to think you “got him” People care because they want...
Because your “question” is not worth answering but I will because I can’t stand for you to think you “got him”

People care because they want to show up and participate on a level playing field. They want a legit chance for things to go their way. They want to be able to pull a lucky hole shot and ride wide and maybe win. This keeps it fun. And it DOES hurt local racing, it’s the reason I stopped racing seriously. I’m a “faster” b racer and if I decide to do any decent races, here’s me racing against factory kids only 3 seconds slower than top 10 AMA pros. In other words, it’s me vs max vohland except he takes 3 bad lines each lap. I’ll keep my money for training.

Tell your kid it’s time to get out of 250D.
8tensolutions wrote:
So because you couldn't win your class, it was the competitions fault because they had better bikes and preparation.....and you wanted everything to be "equal". Since...
So because you couldn't win your class, it was the competitions fault because they had better bikes and preparation.....and you wanted everything to be "equal". Since it didn't go your way, you quit. Got it.

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Isn't that kind of the whole point of different classes of skill level and age? Under your thoughts we should just get rid of the current...
Isn't that kind of the whole point of different classes of skill level and age?

Under your thoughts we should just get rid of the current class structure and make it 50, 65, 85, 125/250F and Open. we can have fast guys with first timers and just have three lines of each class. What could go wrong?
Yep, just go to the Nationals.

Can't keep up? Just go faster... Duh 🤣
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 11/22/2022 5:13am
11/22/2022 5:13am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Around here they lump vet B/C together into one class . Maybe that's the answer.
wm741 wrote:
They do the opposite here in Texas for the most part which is why guys don’t want to move up. They make you go from C...
They do the opposite here in Texas for the most part which is why guys don’t want to move up. They make you go from C to A/B. I like the B/C idea.
Same issues with an A class and a B/C class. Nobody wants to move to A. Seems like the class numbers would be more even if it was A/B and C. At some of the less popular tracks you only get a few in A class, but at the better tracks +30A is often the biggest A class. General consensus is people just don’t want to move up anymore. 20 years ago, people couldn’t wait to move up.
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fourfourone
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fourfourone 11/22/2022 5:26am
11/22/2022 5:26am
The local C class riders up here in the northeast can whip 60-foot tripples.
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wm741
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wm741 11/22/2022 5:56am
11/22/2022 5:56am
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
Same issues with an A class and a B/C class. Nobody wants to move to A. Seems like the class numbers would be more even if...
Same issues with an A class and a B/C class. Nobody wants to move to A. Seems like the class numbers would be more even if it was A/B and C. At some of the less popular tracks you only get a few in A class, but at the better tracks +30A is often the biggest A class. General consensus is people just don’t want to move up anymore. 20 years ago, people couldn’t wait to move up.
I can understand that thought. I just looked at the last race Rio had and it was almost even between A/B and C/D. The D thing I don’t get. You’re either a beginner inside a year of racing or you’re a C guy.
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 11/22/2022 6:04am
11/22/2022 6:04am
fourfourone wrote:
The local C class riders up here in the northeast can whip 60-foot tripples.
Makes sense. Kids on 85’s whip over 60 foot triples and a lot of them race C class along with schoolboy the first year on big bikes.
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Rocket88
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Rocket88 11/22/2022 6:55am
11/22/2022 6:55am
SoCalMX70 wrote:
With OTHG (a 30+ vet racing club), we have an advancement points system. Additionally, part of our Race Director's responsibilities include making sure folks are in...
With OTHG (a 30+ vet racing club), we have an advancement points system. Additionally, part of our Race Director's responsibilities include making sure folks are in the right class. People are bumped well ahead of pointing out if they are winning by massive margins.

A brand new member's first 2 races are considered "evaluation". They are watched closely and placed in the appropriate class going forward.

We even monitor non-members who occasionally show up. This is probably the hardest issue to deal with, but thanks to our Race Director's hard work, 2022 was probably our best year as far as keeping sandbaggers ("trophy chasers" as we sometimes call them) from ruining what would otherwise be great competitive racing.

With all that said, it is never perfect. There are a few weird people out there that like to game the system as much as possible. I've seen guys blitz a few laps to a massive lead, look around, then slow down accordingly. Then there's guys that want to do a "re-evaluation", where we allow 4 races to reclassify them, but this is typically reserved to folks who have been out awhile due to injury. Or, they want to stay at their skill level then move down an age group or 2... It's always something! However, we do our best to stick to our well laid out rules and be even handed in those decisions.

I'll simply never understand the mentality of sandbaggers. How is one "proud" of racing below their skill? I could never get a sense of accomplishment from that. I bumped myself out of Novice at the beginning of the year after winning my first OTHG National event. I was done! I finished in the back of intermediate the rest of the year and I'm 100% good with it... I'll get faster (well, once my knee is healed...).
SLAPAHO wrote:
Yeah, these guys don’t fuck around. I signed up in the 45 intermediate class my first time with them like 10 years ago. I pulled a...
Yeah, these guys don’t fuck around. I signed up in the 45 intermediate class my first time with them like 10 years ago. I pulled a holeshot and ended up 3rd in the first moto. They came to my pit between motos and said “congratulations, you’re a 45 expert from now on 🤷‍♂️. And don’t get me wrong, 20 minute moto and my tongue was in the spokes. I don’t think I would have made another lap.
Anyway, I don’t think that the way they regulate their classes is a bad thing. Move up or move out. It’s the way I grew up racing. Beg, nov, int, expert and pro. And believe me, no one back then wanted to be a “beginner”. It was more of a pride thing i think.
SoCalMX70 wrote:
Haha that seems a little on the extreme side. We would not bump a 3rd place guy in their first race. The board changes every year...
Haha that seems a little on the extreme side. We would not bump a 3rd place guy in their first race. The board changes every year though so perhaps the race director back then was a bit overzealous.

We would certainly keep an eye on you though. Cool
So do the bouncers at Juicy Lucy's.
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mattyhamz2 11/22/2022 7:46am
11/22/2022 7:46am
8tensolutions wrote:
So because you couldn't win your class, it was the competitions fault because they had better bikes and preparation.....and you wanted everything to be "equal". Since...
So because you couldn't win your class, it was the competitions fault because they had better bikes and preparation.....and you wanted everything to be "equal". Since it didn't go your way, you quit. Got it.

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Isn't that kind of the whole point of different classes of skill level and age? Under your thoughts we should just get rid of the current...
Isn't that kind of the whole point of different classes of skill level and age?

Under your thoughts we should just get rid of the current class structure and make it 50, 65, 85, 125/250F and Open. we can have fast guys with first timers and just have three lines of each class. What could go wrong?
Richy wrote:
Yep, just go to the Nationals.

Can't keep up? Just go faster... Duh 🤣
Right? Why even have a process to get a pro license? Just open it to everyone. The faster guys will make it in and the slower guys will just try to go faster. Seems like the perfect solution.
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 11/22/2022 8:21am
11/22/2022 8:21am
DaveB771 wrote:
If I ever get past the surgery, chemo and radiation treatments for my most recent cancer - and I'm feeling a lot more ambitious than I...
If I ever get past the surgery, chemo and radiation treatments for my most recent cancer - and I'm feeling a lot more ambitious than I suspect i ever will - I don't care which moto Karen complains about me signing up for the slowest class available in my age group.

All I'd like is a couple more gate drops, if I still can. And I'm pretty sure the fast Super Seniors would rather not have to deal with lapping me twice in a 4-lap race.
Holy moly dude, that sounds like a really rough situation and I am channeling positive vibes and love your way.



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onewheelwheaties 11/22/2022 8:28am
11/22/2022 8:28am
As far as AMA races, there is a rider advancement system that calculates a Rider Performance Value based on an average of points accumulated across six or more races. A RPV of 15 or higher across the season will advance the rider. Currently three consecutive years of RPV of 13 or higher will also advance you from C to B (I think it only used to be two years). Going to Loretta's in any non 50cc class will also exclude you from C class.


If you want to get people out of C class, tweaking these rules would be a good start. For example RPV of 13 or higher could revert back to two consecutive years gets advanced. The MX advancement points table could be tweaked as well to increase advancement, like to better match the off-road advancement points. Currently it takes a minimum of six point scoring finishes for you to have a valid RPV calculation; that threshold could be reduced if you wanted to prevent riders selectively cherry picking 5 or less races a year.

Here are the 2022 Rider Advancement Points tables for comparison:


For what it's worth, the advancement system seems to work well for my local off-road series. Sure, there are a few random guys who stay in C (or B ) class forever by only showing up to one or two races a year but for the most part it has kept fast riders advancing. Perhaps the slightly tweaked points payout is all that is needed?
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MxAddic
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MxAddic 11/24/2022 11:00pm
11/24/2022 11:00pm
Suck it up, Buttercup.
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vdrsnk04
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vdrsnk04 11/25/2022 6:41am
11/25/2022 6:41am Edited Date/Time 11/25/2022 6:42am
Interesting thread. Guys say C class is a beginner class to learn and get fast so they want faster C class guys to move up, but although they are in the C class for improvement they are still ultra worried about winning their C class plastic trophy…interesting🤔.

To each their own though.

I started in +30 B class for my first race when I was 30. Never raced in my life. Got like 8th or something and eventually got a win in that class, next race I bumped to +30A. Now I usually finish 3rd-6th. Most the time the top 3 guys are guys who “should be” in A for moto or AA for harescrambles, but technically they are 30+ so they have every right to run the class. Why not they wanna have fun too.

No complaints from me, I’ll just try to learn from them and let them have the plastic trophy.

In the end I’m not making a career of it. It’s for fun…
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Richy
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Richy 11/25/2022 7:28am
11/25/2022 7:28am Edited Date/Time 11/25/2022 7:29am
vdrsnk04 wrote:
Interesting thread. Guys say C class is a beginner class to learn and get fast so they want faster C class guys to move up, but...
Interesting thread. Guys say C class is a beginner class to learn and get fast so they want faster C class guys to move up, but although they are in the C class for improvement they are still ultra worried about winning their C class plastic trophy…interesting🤔.

To each their own though.

I started in +30 B class for my first race when I was 30. Never raced in my life. Got like 8th or something and eventually got a win in that class, next race I bumped to +30A. Now I usually finish 3rd-6th. Most the time the top 3 guys are guys who “should be” in A for moto or AA for harescrambles, but technically they are 30+ so they have every right to run the class. Why not they wanna have fun too.

No complaints from me, I’ll just try to learn from them and let them have the plastic trophy.

In the end I’m not making a career of it. It’s for fun…
Your situation there sounds totally reasonable and exactly how it should be 👍 I agree to a point, nobody would mind what you describe, but this is different, there's faster and then there's FASTER...

It's not about winning a $5 trophy to most, if a guy who is still a little squirrelly or just not that skilled and experienced, but is going a fair tick quicker just from balls or brains or knowing the track well, then fair play to them.

But guys who are clearly, noticeably fast enough to mid-pack the next class, and are experienced enough to the point they are straight up sandbagging, that is a fail.

That's the guy who isn't pushing himself and is taking the easy route, not the guys who want a relatively level playing field racing guys vaguely their own speed, that's the whole point of classes, getting smoked is fine, but within a class people should be within a certain pace of each other 🤣
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DaveB771
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DaveB771 11/25/2022 10:17am
11/25/2022 10:17am
Bruce372 wrote:
Holy moly dude, that sounds like a really rough situation and I am channeling positive vibes and love your way.



Thanks, I'll take all the help I can get. Once upon a time my racing goal was to go with my dad to the track one last time, but that hasn't been possible since 2011. Now my racing goals depend on getting my treatments preapproved by the insurance company.
Nairb#70
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Nairb#70 11/25/2022 6:43pm
11/25/2022 6:43pm
If you started racing late in life you're not likely to gain massive strides in speed and skill, motocross is clearly a young mans sport. Be happy with where you are and stay healthy.
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