Discussion for those that have ordered a Stark Varg..everyone else go away!

swordfish
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swordfish 10/15/2022 9:40am
10/15/2022 9:40am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
If you guys get tired of waiting you can always go pick up a new Alta in the interim
#434 wrote:
Thanks for your heartfelt concern Johnny! Don’t worry, I‘ll be ripping my 125 till the bike arrives. What’s the picture in your head of a typical...
Thanks for your heartfelt concern Johnny!
Don’t worry, I‘ll be ripping my 125 till the bike arrives.

What’s the picture in your head of a typical Stark owner?

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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/15/2022 10:41am
10/15/2022 10:41am
#434 wrote:
At 33:35 they talk about lap times. Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was...
At 33:35 they talk about lap times.
Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was much faster on the Varg. A Spanish guy compared a 450 with the Varg while the Spanish Federation did the timing. Also a good bit faster in the eMX.

To look at it completely factual and emotionless:
If the Varg has a well made chassis to its KTM brakes and KYB suspension, how should an ICE bike have a faster lap time?
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment? Do you have to pay in full before they ship?
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stillwelding
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stillwelding 10/15/2022 12:25pm
10/15/2022 12:25pm
#434 wrote:
At 33:35 they talk about lap times. Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was...
At 33:35 they talk about lap times.
Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was much faster on the Varg. A Spanish guy compared a 450 with the Varg while the Spanish Federation did the timing. Also a good bit faster in the eMX.

To look at it completely factual and emotionless:
If the Varg has a well made chassis to its KTM brakes and KYB suspension, how should an ICE bike have a faster lap time?
RaceFace58 wrote:
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment...
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment? Do you have to pay in full before they ship?
Not sure how that works? When I made my deposit (since they were taking deposits directly), I thought it would be the "Tesla" model of selling. I thought I would be buying direct from the manufacturer. I was informed this week, that I could choose from any of three dealers that are more than 50 miles "close" to me, and the one that's closest, I wouldn't do business with. What do I need a dealer for? If they are as reliable as they say, why not just have a regional service center for warranty or major service work. Any comments?
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soggy
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soggy 10/17/2022 9:32am
10/17/2022 9:32am
#434 wrote:
At 33:35 they talk about lap times. Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was...
At 33:35 they talk about lap times.
Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was much faster on the Varg. A Spanish guy compared a 450 with the Varg while the Spanish Federation did the timing. Also a good bit faster in the eMX.

To look at it completely factual and emotionless:
If the Varg has a well made chassis to its KTM brakes and KYB suspension, how should an ICE bike have a faster lap time?
RaceFace58 wrote:
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment...
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment? Do you have to pay in full before they ship?
stillwelding wrote:
Not sure how that works? When I made my deposit (since they were taking deposits directly), I thought it would be the "Tesla" model of selling...
Not sure how that works? When I made my deposit (since they were taking deposits directly), I thought it would be the "Tesla" model of selling. I thought I would be buying direct from the manufacturer. I was informed this week, that I could choose from any of three dealers that are more than 50 miles "close" to me, and the one that's closest, I wouldn't do business with. What do I need a dealer for? If they are as reliable as they say, why not just have a regional service center for warranty or major service work. Any comments?
Regional services centers would cost alot more in infrastructure then just signing on and training some dealers. It sounded like you can choose to have your bike sent to a dealer or just have it shipped directly to you.
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H.E.penyypacker432 10/17/2022 9:37am
10/17/2022 9:37am
RaceFace58 wrote:
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment...
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment? Do you have to pay in full before they ship?
These bikes are 14k?? Dam. I bought a 2018 Nissan Frontier off the lot for 14k lol
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#434
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#434 10/17/2022 1:29pm
10/17/2022 1:29pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment...
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment? Do you have to pay in full before they ship?
H.E.penyypacker432 wrote:
These bikes are 14k?? Dam. I bought a 2018 Nissan Frontier off the lot for 14k lol
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers:

A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in Germany and my 60 HP Stark will come in at 13.000€.
Let’s say I put 100 hours on both and nothing engine-related breaks:
- KTM: ~500 liters of fuel: 1000€; ~20 liters of oil: 300€; 50 air filters changes: 250€ —> around 1.500€
- Stark: 8 kWh per hour riding at 25 cents/kWh —> 200€
Takeway message: dirt bike riding costs money and after a 100 hours the higher price of the Stark amortizes.
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early
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early 10/17/2022 2:12pm
10/17/2022 2:12pm
H.E.penyypacker432 wrote:
These bikes are 14k?? Dam. I bought a 2018 Nissan Frontier off the lot for 14k lol
Good 'ol member berries
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stillwelding
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stillwelding 10/18/2022 8:48am
10/18/2022 8:48am
RaceFace58 wrote:
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment...
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment? Do you have to pay in full before they ship?
stillwelding wrote:
Not sure how that works? When I made my deposit (since they were taking deposits directly), I thought it would be the "Tesla" model of selling...
Not sure how that works? When I made my deposit (since they were taking deposits directly), I thought it would be the "Tesla" model of selling. I thought I would be buying direct from the manufacturer. I was informed this week, that I could choose from any of three dealers that are more than 50 miles "close" to me, and the one that's closest, I wouldn't do business with. What do I need a dealer for? If they are as reliable as they say, why not just have a regional service center for warranty or major service work. Any comments?
soggy wrote:
Regional services centers would cost alot more in infrastructure then just signing on and training some dealers. It sounded like you can choose to have your...
Regional services centers would cost alot more in infrastructure then just signing on and training some dealers. It sounded like you can choose to have your bike sent to a dealer or just have it shipped directly to you.
"It sounded like", is what it sounded like. I contacted Stark directly and was told I'd be getting it from a dealer.
soggy
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soggy 10/18/2022 9:55am
10/18/2022 9:55am
stillwelding wrote:
Not sure how that works? When I made my deposit (since they were taking deposits directly), I thought it would be the "Tesla" model of selling...
Not sure how that works? When I made my deposit (since they were taking deposits directly), I thought it would be the "Tesla" model of selling. I thought I would be buying direct from the manufacturer. I was informed this week, that I could choose from any of three dealers that are more than 50 miles "close" to me, and the one that's closest, I wouldn't do business with. What do I need a dealer for? If they are as reliable as they say, why not just have a regional service center for warranty or major service work. Any comments?
soggy wrote:
Regional services centers would cost alot more in infrastructure then just signing on and training some dealers. It sounded like you can choose to have your...
Regional services centers would cost alot more in infrastructure then just signing on and training some dealers. It sounded like you can choose to have your bike sent to a dealer or just have it shipped directly to you.
stillwelding wrote:
"It sounded like", is what it sounded like. I contacted Stark directly and was told I'd be getting it from a dealer.
Weird. That directly contradicts what they said in the swap podcast.
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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 10/18/2022 10:11am
10/18/2022 10:11am
#434 wrote:
At 33:35 they talk about lap times. Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was...
At 33:35 they talk about lap times.
Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was much faster on the Varg. A Spanish guy compared a 450 with the Varg while the Spanish Federation did the timing. Also a good bit faster in the eMX.

To look at it completely factual and emotionless:
If the Varg has a well made chassis to its KTM brakes and KYB suspension, how should an ICE bike have a faster lap time?
RaceFace58 wrote:
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment...
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment? Do you have to pay in full before they ship?
Chad is going to build a better bike than the Japs in his first try.

Don’t believe me? Ask him.
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#434
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#434 10/18/2022 10:46am
10/18/2022 10:46am Edited Date/Time 10/18/2022 10:47am
#434 wrote:
At 33:35 they talk about lap times. Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was...
At 33:35 they talk about lap times.
Seems to confirm what they said about Dylan Woodcock’s lap times. Swap compared his own GoPro Footage and was much faster on the Varg. A Spanish guy compared a 450 with the Varg while the Spanish Federation did the timing. Also a good bit faster in the eMX.

To look at it completely factual and emotionless:
If the Varg has a well made chassis to its KTM brakes and KYB suspension, how should an ICE bike have a faster lap time?
RaceFace58 wrote:
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment...
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment? Do you have to pay in full before they ship?
There will be financing option, but of course you have to pay it before they ship. However, I’m not locked into anything. If don’t pay, I just don’t get one and loose the 100 bucks.
I get mine 1 year after the first deliveries. Until then there should be enough real world experience with the bike and Stark will have found the software bugs, manufacturing problems and so on. Plenty of time to make a decision to pay or to pass.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/19/2022 4:42pm
10/19/2022 4:42pm
So there is no communication regarding when you need to pay by? It’s still not known? Do those who are a year plus from delivery getting a 2024 model or are these all 2022s?
#434
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#434 10/19/2022 11:05pm
10/19/2022 11:05pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
So there is no communication regarding when you need to pay by? It’s still not known? Do those who are a year plus from delivery getting...
So there is no communication regarding when you need to pay by? It’s still not known? Do those who are a year plus from delivery getting a 2024 model or are these all 2022s?
It’s clear how it’s going to be: when your bike is ready, they contact you, you pay or take the financing option and they ship the bike to you or a dealer close to you.
In the interview with Swap, Anton Wass said there will be Models not yearly updates.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/20/2022 4:03am
10/20/2022 4:03am
So will they contact you 6 months in advance of delivery for payment or 10 days in advance? As a person in line for delivery you know no more than what I am able to assume would be the case. In other words that isn’t very clear at all.
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#434
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#434 10/20/2022 4:38am
10/20/2022 4:38am Edited Date/Time 10/20/2022 4:39am
RaceFace58 wrote:
So will they contact you 6 months in advance of delivery for payment or 10 days in advance? As a person in line for delivery you...
So will they contact you 6 months in advance of delivery for payment or 10 days in advance? As a person in line for delivery you know no more than what I am able to assume would be the case. In other words that isn’t very clear at all.
I checked my invoice: The payment is due 10 days before delivery date.
So like I said: They confirm the delivery date, I pay, they ship.

And please don't start asking stuff like: And if they don't deliver the bike...

It's a company in Spain. That's at least as trustworthy as one in Austria Tongue
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/20/2022 9:45am
10/20/2022 9:45am
Well now a definitive answer! Thank you. Yes I had visions of this guy disappearing with everyone’s money.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 10/20/2022 6:35pm
10/20/2022 6:35pm
The CEO said they had 17000 orders. How many 250/450s do the Japanese OEMs sell a year?
Kulpa
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Kulpa 10/26/2022 3:02am
10/26/2022 3:02am
I got a call from Stark yesterday and my delivery was postponed from 23.03.23 to 23.12.23, so nine months - full moto riding season.

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Rad76
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Rad76 10/26/2022 3:32am
10/26/2022 3:32am
Kulpa wrote:
I got a call from Stark yesterday and my delivery was postponed from 23.03.23 to 23.12.23, so nine months - full moto riding season.
Holy shit, that's bad news !!!
Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 10/26/2022 3:48am
10/26/2022 3:48am
sandtrack315 wrote:
The CEO said they had 17000 orders. How many 250/450s do the Japanese OEMs sell a year?
Does anyone believe that guy?
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crowe660
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crowe660 10/26/2022 4:23am
10/26/2022 4:23am
Has there been any pics of these being built yet?
KTMmarkus 10/26/2022 4:26am
10/26/2022 4:26am
sandtrack315 wrote:
The CEO said they had 17000 orders. How many 250/450s do the Japanese OEMs sell a year?
Sandusky26 wrote:
Does anyone believe that guy?
Why would it be unreasonable that they have 17000 orders? It is only 100 bucks to order them...
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#434
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#434 10/26/2022 6:24am
10/26/2022 6:24am
sandtrack315 wrote:
The CEO said they had 17000 orders. How many 250/450s do the Japanese OEMs sell a year?
Sandusky26 wrote:
Does anyone believe that guy?
Sure, why else would I‘ve sent him a 100 bucks?
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str8line
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str8line 10/26/2022 9:28am
10/26/2022 9:28am
I ordered on December 15, 2021 and my delivery date is now September 30, 2023, or almost one year later than originally estimated. My price is $13,099 USD.
NSP139
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NSP139 10/26/2022 9:49am
10/26/2022 9:49am
The website says estimated delivery for new orders is April 7 2024 damn
RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/26/2022 10:04am
10/26/2022 10:04am
sandtrack315 wrote:
The CEO said they had 17000 orders. How many 250/450s do the Japanese OEMs sell a year?
Sandusky26 wrote:
Does anyone believe that guy?
KTMmarkus wrote:
Why would it be unreasonable that they have 17000 orders? It is only 100 bucks to order them...
That is true. The thing is I found an article on Forbes magazine website touting how he had all the orders as paid sales in a 24 hour period. Not even close to the truth. I hope no investors were suckered in by any false claims.
Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 10/26/2022 11:37am
10/26/2022 11:37am
Sandusky26 wrote:
Does anyone believe that guy?
KTMmarkus wrote:
Why would it be unreasonable that they have 17000 orders? It is only 100 bucks to order them...
RaceFace58 wrote:
That is true. The thing is I found an article on Forbes magazine website touting how he had all the orders as paid sales in a...
That is true. The thing is I found an article on Forbes magazine website touting how he had all the orders as paid sales in a 24 hour period. Not even close to the truth. I hope no investors were suckered in by any false claims.
Chad thinks we're stupid
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#434
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#434 10/26/2022 4:29pm
10/26/2022 4:29pm
Sandusky26 wrote:
Does anyone believe that guy?
KTMmarkus wrote:
Why would it be unreasonable that they have 17000 orders? It is only 100 bucks to order them...
RaceFace58 wrote:
That is true. The thing is I found an article on Forbes magazine website touting how he had all the orders as paid sales in a...
That is true. The thing is I found an article on Forbes magazine website touting how he had all the orders as paid sales in a 24 hour period. Not even close to the truth. I hope no investors were suckered in by any false claims.
Would you mind sharing the link to that article?
number six
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number six 10/27/2022 8:51am
10/27/2022 8:51am
The title of the Forbes article was as follows ;
Pre-Sales For This Electric Motocross Bike Reached Almost $9 Million In 24 Hours. Here’s Why

Link ; https://www.forbes.com/sites/breannawilson/2022/03/28/pre-sales-for-this-electric-motocross-bike-reached-almost-9-million-in-24-hours-heres-why/?sh=43e2301b196b

Math.
9 million divided by the (then) sale price of 12K = 750
So .. during a 24 hour period, 750 pre-orders were received for the Stark Varg for which they collected 75K in deposits.
The 9 million statement was based on eventual payments in full, not deposits received.
If Stark Future now in fact have 17K pre-orders, thats 204 Million in sales @ 12K per unit for a bike that has yet to be delivered.
So yeah, apparently there's plenty of interest worldwide.
Dont know the capitalization expenditures of development, salaries & setting up a factory, but given those kind of numbers, Stark may be well in the black balance sheet wise in remarkably short order .. assuming they can get units delivered.

.


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