Red Bull | What Happened To 2 Strokes?

-MAVERICK-
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Magoofan
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Magoofan 10/10/2022 10:15am
10/10/2022 10:15am
Cool vid.

As usual...Ping nails it. 4 strokes have essentially ruined the sport.

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sam hain
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sam hain 10/10/2022 11:15am
10/10/2022 11:15am
I blame Honda.
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scott_nz 10/10/2022 11:19am
10/10/2022 11:19am
sam hain wrote:
I blame Honda.
I blame the consumer that brought 4 strokes way more than they did 2 strokes
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sam hain
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sam hain 10/10/2022 11:45am
10/10/2022 11:45am
sam hain wrote:
I blame Honda.
scott_nz wrote:
I blame the consumer that brought 4 strokes way more than they did 2 strokes
Consumer didn't have much choice, Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki all had quit making them by 2008. Yamaha sit on their laurels until they saw KTM was continuing the advance them and they finally updated the YZ line after about 16yrs of BNG. if not for KTM the 2stk wouldn't exist today. I believe Yamaha would have quit if not for KTM.
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Skerby
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Skerby 10/10/2022 11:51am
10/10/2022 11:51am
sam hain wrote:
Consumer didn't have much choice, Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki all had quit making them by 2008. Yamaha sit on their laurels until they saw KTM was...
Consumer didn't have much choice, Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki all had quit making them by 2008. Yamaha sit on their laurels until they saw KTM was continuing the advance them and they finally updated the YZ line after about 16yrs of BNG. if not for KTM the 2stk wouldn't exist today. I believe Yamaha would have quit if not for KTM.
They disappeared by 2008 because people werent buying them in 2005, 2006, and 2007. If you were around back then you would remember 2 strokes sitting on showroom floors for years before being discounted several thousand dollars.

It was a cool time to be entering the sport. I remember buying brand new 125s for less than 4k from dealerships.
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Magoofan
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Magoofan 10/10/2022 12:00pm
10/10/2022 12:00pm Edited Date/Time 10/10/2022 12:01pm
Skerby wrote:
They disappeared by 2008 because people werent buying them in 2005, 2006, and 2007. If you were around back then you would remember 2 strokes sitting...
They disappeared by 2008 because people werent buying them in 2005, 2006, and 2007. If you were around back then you would remember 2 strokes sitting on showroom floors for years before being discounted several thousand dollars.

It was a cool time to be entering the sport. I remember buying brand new 125s for less than 4k from dealerships.
People weren't buying them because they are not competitive against 4-strokes. It was a forced move.

....or the other reason....they cost so much more, require more expensive maintenence.


We'll see the same thing happen with e-bikes. They will essentially kill the ICE offerings.
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sam hain
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sam hain 10/10/2022 12:05pm
10/10/2022 12:05pm
Skerby wrote:
They disappeared by 2008 because people werent buying them in 2005, 2006, and 2007. If you were around back then you would remember 2 strokes sitting...
They disappeared by 2008 because people werent buying them in 2005, 2006, and 2007. If you were around back then you would remember 2 strokes sitting on showroom floors for years before being discounted several thousand dollars.

It was a cool time to be entering the sport. I remember buying brand new 125s for less than 4k from dealerships.
I think track owners hurt the sport as well back then, I was still racing MX back then and when the 4stks took over several tracks around me completely redesigned their layout and made the gaps bigger between jumps. The practice track I used to run shutdown for years not long after that because of a big double. Dude cased it and crushed his throat, not saying this couldn't have happened otherwise but local weekend warriors don't need 80ft doubles. We all have to go to work Monday morning.
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zehn
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zehn 10/10/2022 12:05pm
10/10/2022 12:05pm
The free market happened
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Forty
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Forty 10/10/2022 12:11pm
10/10/2022 12:11pm
I’ve wanted a 4-stroke dirt bike since I first heard the mega phone on an xr 75 so I was stoked when Yamaha made the 400 and purchased a 2000 426 with much happiness. I’ve owned a dozen big 4 strokes since and loved every one, however still sad the 2 stroke took the brunt of that.

Now I have a 300sx on order. Go figure.

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dsc131
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dsc131 10/10/2022 12:25pm
10/10/2022 12:25pm
sam hain wrote:
I blame Honda.
I blame all the lazy riders that thought it was too much work to keep a bike in the sweet spot of the powerband by appropriately shifting and using the clutch in varied terrain.

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zookrider62!
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zookrider62! 10/10/2022 12:33pm
10/10/2022 12:33pm
sam hain wrote:
Consumer didn't have much choice, Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki all had quit making them by 2008. Yamaha sit on their laurels until they saw KTM was...
Consumer didn't have much choice, Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki all had quit making them by 2008. Yamaha sit on their laurels until they saw KTM was continuing the advance them and they finally updated the YZ line after about 16yrs of BNG. if not for KTM the 2stk wouldn't exist today. I believe Yamaha would have quit if not for KTM.
Skerby wrote:
They disappeared by 2008 because people werent buying them in 2005, 2006, and 2007. If you were around back then you would remember 2 strokes sitting...
They disappeared by 2008 because people werent buying them in 2005, 2006, and 2007. If you were around back then you would remember 2 strokes sitting on showroom floors for years before being discounted several thousand dollars.

It was a cool time to be entering the sport. I remember buying brand new 125s for less than 4k from dealerships.
they were the new thing, of course everyone was going to buy them. Add in the fact that local tracks followed 125/250 and 250/450 class structures and the 2 strokes didn't stand a chance.

I do think if the other manufacturers kept making 2 strokes there would be a more even split between 2 strokes and 4 strokes than there was in the early days of the 4-stroke appearance.

I also benefited from everyone jumping to 4 strokes, in 2006 I picked up a leftover 2005 RM 250 for 5K OTD
jeffro503
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jeffro503 10/10/2022 12:35pm
10/10/2022 12:35pm
I hopped on the 4 stroke bandwagon back in 2002 , on a CRF450. Back then I really enjoyed the change. Owned many 450's since then , up until 2016.

As I got older , the 450's got faster and then a divide started happening between myself and the 450's. I didn't want to quit riding and at that time I didn't want a 250F. So I went back to the 125 and 250 2 strokes....and again , just like 2002 it revived my riding enjoyment. No regrets there at all.

I do feel like I missed the boat on the 250F's. I think right now , in this point in my life , a 250F would be a great bike. I just can't part with my 2 strokes....and I already have to many damn bikes!
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fourfourone
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fourfourone 10/10/2022 12:36pm
10/10/2022 12:36pm
the more strokes the better!
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RandomUserName 10/10/2022 12:43pm
10/10/2022 12:43pm
fourfourone wrote:
the more strokes the better!
which was kinda the mindset then. "James Stewart is up against a slew of 450s on his lowly 250!!!!" so what did Joe Consumer buy on Monday morning? Duh. A 4t. And it's been shitty ever since.
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fourfourone
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fourfourone 10/10/2022 12:46pm
10/10/2022 12:46pm
fourfourone wrote:
the more strokes the better!
RandomUserName wrote:
which was kinda the mindset then. "James Stewart is up against a slew of 450s on his lowly 250!!!!" so what did Joe Consumer buy on...
which was kinda the mindset then. "James Stewart is up against a slew of 450s on his lowly 250!!!!" so what did Joe Consumer buy on Monday morning? Duh. A 4t. And it's been shitty ever since.
You think it's bad now? Wait a few years when only electric will be on showroom floors. It sucks but it's going to happen sooner than later.
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RandomUserName 10/10/2022 12:53pm
10/10/2022 12:53pm
just watched the vid, and it straight just pissed me off on a Monday afternoon. They wrecked the sport in so many ways w/ the stupidity of the displacement rules. Sigh. Oh what could have been.......
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 10/10/2022 12:57pm
10/10/2022 12:57pm
RandomUserName wrote:
just watched the vid, and it straight just pissed me off on a Monday afternoon. They wrecked the sport in so many ways w/ the stupidity...
just watched the vid, and it straight just pissed me off on a Monday afternoon. They wrecked the sport in so many ways w/ the stupidity of the displacement rules. Sigh. Oh what could have been.......
The best part, "well we didn't know".

Well, maybe more research should've have been done before just giving them double the displacement.

Now we can't even get them to go racing a 2t as equal displacement.
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SmokinJoe439 10/10/2022 1:09pm
10/10/2022 1:09pm Edited Date/Time 10/10/2022 1:29pm
Didn't help either that nearly ever media n mag at the time was shoving 4 strokes up your ass as the best thing ever. I was riding an 04 kx125 and then 06 yz125 n yz250 then. After a shitty year on an 03 yz250f.

I be rich if I had a penny for all the stupid ass comments. People said to me back then for being on 2 strokes.

They also would get mad when I was passing them. Suddenly they would wick it up for about 5 seconds and I would still pass them.

Winter 07 at perris on Wednesday practice first session. Was some ama pro's there. Other than some super mini me n my friend were the only full size 2 strokes there.

Towards the very end of the session I had the track to myself. Then I see a few people watching. Travis Preston broc helper. All I can think of is they were listening to my yz125.

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Zycki11
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Zycki11 10/10/2022 4:11pm
10/10/2022 4:11pm
RandomUserName wrote:
just watched the vid, and it straight just pissed me off on a Monday afternoon. They wrecked the sport in so many ways w/ the stupidity...
just watched the vid, and it straight just pissed me off on a Monday afternoon. They wrecked the sport in so many ways w/ the stupidity of the displacement rules. Sigh. Oh what could have been.......
-MAVERICK- wrote:
The best part, [i]"well we didn't know"[/i]. Well, maybe more research should've have been done before just giving them double the displacement. Now we can't even...
The best part, "well we didn't know".

Well, maybe more research should've have been done before just giving them double the displacement.

Now we can't even get them to go racing a 2t as equal displacement.
Hence the frustration of having a body like the ama. Pretty useless
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ando
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ando 10/10/2022 4:25pm
10/10/2022 4:25pm
Interesting - a bunch of old guys indulging in nostalgia about how the old days were better.

In 20 years there’ll be a video with Villopoto, Dungey, Tomac etc reminiscing about the good old days of four strokes before electric bikes “ruined the sport”.

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nskerb
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nskerb 10/10/2022 4:52pm
10/10/2022 4:52pm
ando wrote:
Interesting - a bunch of old guys indulging in nostalgia about how the old days were better. In 20 years there’ll be a video with Villopoto...
Interesting - a bunch of old guys indulging in nostalgia about how the old days were better.

In 20 years there’ll be a video with Villopoto, Dungey, Tomac etc reminiscing about the good old days of four strokes before electric bikes “ruined the sport”.

In 20 years I hope we still see Villo slamming coors lights after racing his yz125
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jbrow125
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jbrow125 10/10/2022 6:40pm
10/10/2022 6:40pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I hopped on the 4 stroke bandwagon back in 2002 , on a CRF450. Back then I really enjoyed the change. Owned many 450's since then...
I hopped on the 4 stroke bandwagon back in 2002 , on a CRF450. Back then I really enjoyed the change. Owned many 450's since then , up until 2016.

As I got older , the 450's got faster and then a divide started happening between myself and the 450's. I didn't want to quit riding and at that time I didn't want a 250F. So I went back to the 125 and 250 2 strokes....and again , just like 2002 it revived my riding enjoyment. No regrets there at all.

I do feel like I missed the boat on the 250F's. I think right now , in this point in my life , a 250F would be a great bike. I just can't part with my 2 strokes....and I already have to many damn bikes!
Believe in the math jeffro... N+1
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7I3N
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7I3N 10/10/2022 6:59pm
10/10/2022 6:59pm
I blame the bureaucrats of the California Air Resources Board.
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FI2T
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FI2T 10/10/2022 7:05pm
10/10/2022 7:05pm
RandomUserName wrote:
just watched the vid, and it straight just pissed me off on a Monday afternoon. They wrecked the sport in so many ways w/ the stupidity...
just watched the vid, and it straight just pissed me off on a Monday afternoon. They wrecked the sport in so many ways w/ the stupidity of the displacement rules. Sigh. Oh what could have been.......
-MAVERICK- wrote:
The best part, [i]"well we didn't know"[/i]. Well, maybe more research should've have been done before just giving them double the displacement. Now we can't even...
The best part, "well we didn't know".

Well, maybe more research should've have been done before just giving them double the displacement.

Now we can't even get them to go racing a 2t as equal displacement.
Didn't know, led to obvious disadvantages.... never attempting to level the field is where the true crime took place. Hopefully they let these new 300's line up against 450's.
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soggy
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soggy 10/10/2022 7:16pm
10/10/2022 7:16pm
FI2T wrote:
Didn't know, led to obvious disadvantages.... never attempting to level the field is where the true crime took place. Hopefully they let these new 300's line...
Didn't know, led to obvious disadvantages.... never attempting to level the field is where the true crime took place. Hopefully they let these new 300's line up against 450's.
Hahahaha don’t hold your breath
zehn
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zehn 10/10/2022 7:29pm
10/10/2022 7:29pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
The best part, [i]"well we didn't know"[/i]. Well, maybe more research should've have been done before just giving them double the displacement. Now we can't even...
The best part, "well we didn't know".

Well, maybe more research should've have been done before just giving them double the displacement.

Now we can't even get them to go racing a 2t as equal displacement.
There is displacement equivalency at all levels of AMA racing except professional racing
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 10/10/2022 7:44pm
10/10/2022 7:44pm
ando wrote:
Interesting - a bunch of old guys indulging in nostalgia about how the old days were better. In 20 years there’ll be a video with Villopoto...
Interesting - a bunch of old guys indulging in nostalgia about how the old days were better.

In 20 years there’ll be a video with Villopoto, Dungey, Tomac etc reminiscing about the good old days of four strokes before electric bikes “ruined the sport”.

They’ll be correct.
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Homounculus
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Homounculus 10/10/2022 8:02pm
10/10/2022 8:02pm
Magoofan wrote:
Cool vid.

As usual...Ping nails it. 4 strokes have essentially ruined the sport.

Any machine that throws all its engine oil and 40% of its fuel out the exhaust unburnt when running has always been a dicey proposition. The impossible to fix roll off roll on misfire is another big issue for precision riding.
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Bearuno
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Bearuno 10/11/2022 12:22am
10/11/2022 12:22am
zehn wrote:
The free market happened
Aided by a double displacement rule for the former 125 class, and a 1.75 times displacement rule for the former 250 class.

When advantages such as those are given, well, the market / customers will take them.

With those rules, it was a foregone conclusion that 4 strokes would take over.

One of the most idiotic and destructive things to happen in Motorcycle Sports.
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