Leblanc Story: this is why AMA needs under 23 rule

10/4/2022 6:33am
We don't need that junk rule. And we can get rid of the pointing out rule for SX. This is a MAN's sport on a professional level. If you aren't fast enough, then you aren't fast enough. Doesn't matter the age of the rider. Is anyone listening to the complaint here? "riders are too fast for me to compete. they should move up to a different class to make this one slower." That makes no sense in terms of racing. 250 Class is NOT a stepping stone class. Otherwise we'd have 40 450 riders on the gate for a SX race. Yes for supercross. The age rule makes riders retire from racing too soon.

To be the best, you gotta beat the best. Plain and simple.
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DonM
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10/4/2022 6:36am
HonDawg17 wrote:
We don't need that junk rule. And we can get rid of the pointing out rule for SX. This is a MAN's sport on a professional...
We don't need that junk rule. And we can get rid of the pointing out rule for SX. This is a MAN's sport on a professional level. If you aren't fast enough, then you aren't fast enough. Doesn't matter the age of the rider. Is anyone listening to the complaint here? "riders are too fast for me to compete. they should move up to a different class to make this one slower." That makes no sense in terms of racing. 250 Class is NOT a stepping stone class. Otherwise we'd have 40 450 riders on the gate for a SX race. Yes for supercross. The age rule makes riders retire from racing too soon.

To be the best, you gotta beat the best. Plain and simple.
The pointing out rule is gone in SX in 23...it will be if you win a 250 championship you can defend but then move up...but no more pointing out so no more late season "injuries"...
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10/4/2022 6:45am
HonDawg17 wrote:
We don't need that junk rule. And we can get rid of the pointing out rule for SX. This is a MAN's sport on a professional...
We don't need that junk rule. And we can get rid of the pointing out rule for SX. This is a MAN's sport on a professional level. If you aren't fast enough, then you aren't fast enough. Doesn't matter the age of the rider. Is anyone listening to the complaint here? "riders are too fast for me to compete. they should move up to a different class to make this one slower." That makes no sense in terms of racing. 250 Class is NOT a stepping stone class. Otherwise we'd have 40 450 riders on the gate for a SX race. Yes for supercross. The age rule makes riders retire from racing too soon.

To be the best, you gotta beat the best. Plain and simple.
DonM wrote:
The pointing out rule is gone in SX in 23...it will be if you win a 250 championship you can defend but then move up...but no...
The pointing out rule is gone in SX in 23...it will be if you win a 250 championship you can defend but then move up...but no more pointing out so no more late season "injuries"...
That's still a pointing out rule... just as a champion. Its a free country and you should be able to race 250 if you wanna race 250.
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DonM
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10/4/2022 6:50am
HonDawg17 wrote:
We don't need that junk rule. And we can get rid of the pointing out rule for SX. This is a MAN's sport on a professional...
We don't need that junk rule. And we can get rid of the pointing out rule for SX. This is a MAN's sport on a professional level. If you aren't fast enough, then you aren't fast enough. Doesn't matter the age of the rider. Is anyone listening to the complaint here? "riders are too fast for me to compete. they should move up to a different class to make this one slower." That makes no sense in terms of racing. 250 Class is NOT a stepping stone class. Otherwise we'd have 40 450 riders on the gate for a SX race. Yes for supercross. The age rule makes riders retire from racing too soon.

To be the best, you gotta beat the best. Plain and simple.
DonM wrote:
The pointing out rule is gone in SX in 23...it will be if you win a 250 championship you can defend but then move up...but no...
The pointing out rule is gone in SX in 23...it will be if you win a 250 championship you can defend but then move up...but no more pointing out so no more late season "injuries"...
HonDawg17 wrote:
That's still a pointing out rule... just as a champion. Its a free country and you should be able to race 250 if you wanna race...
That's still a pointing out rule... just as a champion. Its a free country and you should be able to race 250 if you wanna race 250.
Well it's more like a championship and your out rule...but like I said we will no longer have to suffer through those top 250 riders unexplainable late season ending "injuries"....
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The Shop

olds cool
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10/4/2022 6:53am
Sully wrote:
[i]"How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as...
"How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as some of the 26 year olds out there."

Ask Jett, Jo, Hunter, JMart, Sexton, Eli, Marchbanks, Swoll, Brown, McAdoo, Forkner, etc. They all performed well at 16 - 17 years old against older dudes.
Hats Off wrote:
Jmart didn't go pro until age 18-19. forkner is getting to the point where would now have to move up under this rule. Sexton obviously has...
Jmart didn't go pro until age 18-19. forkner is getting to the point where would now have to move up under this rule. Sexton obviously has nothing to do with this discussion as he moved up on his own at appropriate age. Same with Eli. Mcadoo is no ones role model for anything. Swoll is just a diversity hire. And i have no idea who Brown even is
I was reading this thread and trying to be objective up until you said you don’t even know who Mike Brown is. Sorry but that’s an instant DQ.
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olds cool
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10/4/2022 6:55am
10/4/2022 6:58am
Yep that’s why Vialle is coming over here next year. Great idea
Not because of the age rule. He's 21
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Johnny Ringo
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10/4/2022 7:00am
Yep that’s why Vialle is coming over here next year. Great idea
crusty_xx wrote:
Not because of the age rule. He's 21
Hey bro can you not use facts to ruin my story please? This is the internet!
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Bearuno
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10/4/2022 7:12am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 7:43am
Yep that’s why Vialle is coming over here next year. Great idea
crusty_xx wrote:
Not because of the age rule. He's 21
The rule on moving up to MXGP is either the 23 age, Or, 2 MX2 Championships and you're Out, no matter your age.

Either way, I think they are piss poor rules. 250s, are not tiddlers, and should not have any arbitrary age restrictions, nor title limits.

Vialle had, apparently, decided to pursue his SX dream, well before he got the 2nd World Championship, I think. He was going over to the US whether or not he won the Title again. It will be interesting to see how he goes with it, I wish him luck.
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10/4/2022 7:28am
We need a pointing out rule for sloan. After your 5th account you're not allowed another one. This guy makes up a new profile every 3 days and comes on here with the dumbest shit every time.
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Leave Us To
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10/4/2022 7:37am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 7:39am
Bearuno wrote:
The rule on moving up to MXGP is either the 23 age, Or, 2 MX2 Championships and you're Out, no matter your age. Either way, I...
The rule on moving up to MXGP is either the 23 age, Or, 2 MX2 Championships and you're Out, no matter your age.

Either way, I think they are piss poor rules. 250s, are not tiddlers, and should not have any arbitrary age restrictions, nor title limits.

Vialle had, apparently, decided to pursue his SX dream, well before he got the 2nd World Championship, I think. He was going over to the US whether or not he won the Title again. It will be interesting to see how he goes with it, I wish him luck.
I am in the opposite camp especially after having Davalos, Craig and others stay in the 250 class for so long. Prado is a great example of why the 23 age rule works.

On Vialle, I look forward to seeing him race. Rattray did it best of any over the riders coming to the US. Race the Nationals first then ride SX. And this was before Feld started influencing track design with their stupid AF whoops like they did this year. I can only imagine how many riders we will lose again next season unless Feld remembers this is racing with humans and not a circus with show animals.

Don't hold your breath.
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dsc131
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10/4/2022 7:41am
Sully wrote:
[i]"How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as...
"How do you legitimately an in good faith expect a rookie at 17 years old to show up and perform at the exact same level as some of the 26 year olds out there."

Ask Jett, Jo, Hunter, JMart, Sexton, Eli, Marchbanks, Swoll, Brown, McAdoo, Forkner, etc. They all performed well at 16 - 17 years old against older dudes.
Hats Off wrote:
Jmart didn't go pro until age 18-19. forkner is getting to the point where would now have to move up under this rule. Sexton obviously has...
Jmart didn't go pro until age 18-19. forkner is getting to the point where would now have to move up under this rule. Sexton obviously has nothing to do with this discussion as he moved up on his own at appropriate age. Same with Eli. Mcadoo is no ones role model for anything. Swoll is just a diversity hire. And i have no idea who Brown even is
olds cool wrote:
I was reading this thread and trying to be objective up until you said you don’t even know who Mike Brown is. Sorry but that’s an...
I was reading this thread and trying to be objective up until you said you don’t even know who Mike Brown is. Sorry but that’s an instant DQ.
I and all the downvotes say this dude is an idiot.

I came back to the thread to see if anyone was making any headway.

“Swoll is a diversity hire? I have no idea who Brown even is.” Really? What an embarrassment for the moto fanbase, especially the first part.

I’m out. Have fun.
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brocster
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10/4/2022 7:46am
Yep that’s why Vialle is coming over here next year. Great idea
crusty_xx wrote:
Not because of the age rule. He's 21
Bearuno wrote:
The rule on moving up to MXGP is either the 23 age, Or, 2 MX2 Championships and you're Out, no matter your age. Either way, I...
The rule on moving up to MXGP is either the 23 age, Or, 2 MX2 Championships and you're Out, no matter your age.

Either way, I think they are piss poor rules. 250s, are not tiddlers, and should not have any arbitrary age restrictions, nor title limits.

Vialle had, apparently, decided to pursue his SX dream, well before he got the 2nd World Championship, I think. He was going over to the US whether or not he won the Title again. It will be interesting to see how he goes with it, I wish him luck.
I agree and have been saying for longest time that some guys are just not built for big bikes or big bikes are not their “specialty” and that should not be career ending because of points, age or years in class. If you can get a ride and make the gate you earned the spot. Pretty simple. Just because A Mart is both small and older doesn’t make him any less professional on a 250 but being forced to move up caused his retirement. There are more examples but he’s the most recent that was basically “forced” into retirement or so it seems.
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Bearuno
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10/4/2022 8:08am
Bearuno wrote:
The rule on moving up to MXGP is either the 23 age, Or, 2 MX2 Championships and you're Out, no matter your age. Either way, I...
The rule on moving up to MXGP is either the 23 age, Or, 2 MX2 Championships and you're Out, no matter your age.

Either way, I think they are piss poor rules. 250s, are not tiddlers, and should not have any arbitrary age restrictions, nor title limits.

Vialle had, apparently, decided to pursue his SX dream, well before he got the 2nd World Championship, I think. He was going over to the US whether or not he won the Title again. It will be interesting to see how he goes with it, I wish him luck.
I am in the opposite camp especially after having Davalos, Craig and others stay in the 250 class for so long. Prado is a great example...
I am in the opposite camp especially after having Davalos, Craig and others stay in the 250 class for so long. Prado is a great example of why the 23 age rule works.

On Vialle, I look forward to seeing him race. Rattray did it best of any over the riders coming to the US. Race the Nationals first then ride SX. And this was before Feld started influencing track design with their stupid AF whoops like they did this year. I can only imagine how many riders we will lose again next season unless Feld remembers this is racing with humans and not a circus with show animals.

Don't hold your breath.
Prado moving up had Nothing to do with the 23 and you're out rule.

He had the 2 MX2 World Titles, and that was it. No hope of staying in MX2 with the rules.

Of course, he probably wanted to move up - well, He Knew he had to move up, or go to the USA, to continue on 250s, if he wanted.

Gajser got his one MX2 title at 19 in 2015, went to MXGP, to get the title 2016.

Choices. People should be able to have them.

Quite a few 125 / 250 Champions, be they in the World Championships ( before the BS "age out " rules ) and the US Championships, and others around the World, have been over 23 years of age. And, as I have pointed out many times here, both Zack and Ferrandis, were able to get titles in the 250s, and Then 450 titles, in the USA, that they couldn't get before they aged out ( I think Ferrandis left to the US a year early) in the GPs.

Not everyone has Championship levels before the age of 23. Zack only ever got 1 GP overall, and Ferrandis, I think, 4. But both progressed, because they Could, they had the time and No BS age out rule, back in the USA.

The USA, should Never embrace an Age Out rule.
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DonM
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10/4/2022 8:30am
Hats Off wrote:
I'm sorry you're so scared to see your favorite 26-30 year old get forced up into the 450 class. I'm sure its a real scary reality...
I'm sorry you're so scared to see your favorite 26-30 year old get forced up into the 450 class. I'm sure its a real scary reality for that guy, too
Leeham wrote:
Dont really have a favorite 250 rider. Just enjoy a deep field with good racing. Doesnt matter if they are 16 or 30. Whats your main...
Dont really have a favorite 250 rider. Just enjoy a deep field with good racing. Doesnt matter if they are 16 or 30.

Whats your main account?
Hats Off wrote:
This is my only account, and i made this account because I'm really getting tired of seeing these kids flunk out with little to no opportunity...
This is my only account, and i made this account because I'm really getting tired of seeing these kids flunk out with little to no opportunity while older guys like hampshire and smith just fester and stagnate burning through a failed season after another.
Yeah but is it the only account you've ever had....keeps coming back with multiple posts in a short amount of time....
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Leave Us To
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10/4/2022 8:33am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 8:33am
Thanks for the feedback Bearuno. I will stick to my opinion until when and if the AMA has a "starter" class for amateurs. And SX Futures on near factory bikes isn't a starter class either.
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10/4/2022 8:46am
I am in the opposite camp especially after having Davalos, Craig and others stay in the 250 class for so long. Prado is a great example...
I am in the opposite camp especially after having Davalos, Craig and others stay in the 250 class for so long. Prado is a great example of why the 23 age rule works.

On Vialle, I look forward to seeing him race. Rattray did it best of any over the riders coming to the US. Race the Nationals first then ride SX. And this was before Feld started influencing track design with their stupid AF whoops like they did this year. I can only imagine how many riders we will lose again next season unless Feld remembers this is racing with humans and not a circus with show animals.

Don't hold your breath.
Dam you must have hated supercross in the 2000's, they had way gnarlier whoops. Supercross tracks have big whoops, that's literally a main component of a supercross track.
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brocster
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10/4/2022 8:55am
Leeham wrote:
Dont really have a favorite 250 rider. Just enjoy a deep field with good racing. Doesnt matter if they are 16 or 30. Whats your main...
Dont really have a favorite 250 rider. Just enjoy a deep field with good racing. Doesnt matter if they are 16 or 30.

Whats your main account?
Hats Off wrote:
This is my only account, and i made this account because I'm really getting tired of seeing these kids flunk out with little to no opportunity...
This is my only account, and i made this account because I'm really getting tired of seeing these kids flunk out with little to no opportunity while older guys like hampshire and smith just fester and stagnate burning through a failed season after another.
DonM wrote:
Yeah but is it the only account you've ever had....keeps coming back with multiple posts in a short amount of time....
Its a sickness that needs help.
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DonM
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10/4/2022 8:57am
Hats Off wrote:
This is my only account, and i made this account because I'm really getting tired of seeing these kids flunk out with little to no opportunity...
This is my only account, and i made this account because I'm really getting tired of seeing these kids flunk out with little to no opportunity while older guys like hampshire and smith just fester and stagnate burning through a failed season after another.
DonM wrote:
Yeah but is it the only account you've ever had....keeps coming back with multiple posts in a short amount of time....
brocster wrote:
Its a sickness that needs help.
Hopefully soon ML will be able to lock this turd out for good....
Johnny Ringo
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10/4/2022 9:02am
DonM wrote:
Yeah but is it the only account you've ever had....keeps coming back with multiple posts in a short amount of time....
brocster wrote:
Its a sickness that needs help.
DonM wrote:
Hopefully soon ML will be able to lock this turd out for good....
Our only hope is that he is committed.
10/4/2022 9:08am
UpTiTe wrote:
He’s a product of bad management, not the current system. He should’ve stayed down another year or two until he was 100% ready.
Hats Off wrote:
And what would he have gotten by "waiting around another year." Another 40-60 minutes worth of motos on the cow pasture that is lorettas? The guy...
And what would he have gotten by "waiting around another year." Another 40-60 minutes worth of motos on the cow pasture that is lorettas? The guy already waited until age 18 to turn pro. It is the current racing system and promoters that have failed him. The amateur series didn't do hardly enough to prepare him for the old boys circle of guys he was about to compete against, many of them nearly a decade older than him
There’s more to getting ready than riding LL once a year. Again, he moved up before he was ready and it was stupid. He needed another year in the gym, on the practice track with national caliber guys, another year perfecting his technique. He clearly wasn’t strong enough and it showed by him fading, and he struggled with the pace.

This isn’t 1984 when a 17-18 year old kid can move up onto a 170 pound 125, it’s 2023 and the bike have three times the power and weighs 40-50 pounds more. He’s 18, 5’8” @145, he didn’t have enough time to build his strength and stamina.
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10/4/2022 9:19am
Hats Off wrote:
At 24 years old, I think this guy has the skill set to race the 450 class. But thats another point why the limit is needed...
At 24 years old, I think this guy has the skill set to race the 450 class. But thats another point why the limit is needed in AMA, all of a sudden you literally have hangarounds coming to the US because they can't find a ride in europe.
Boomslang wrote:
So Jett, who is 19 yrs old must camp in the 250 class for another 3 yrs?


Hats Off wrote:
Why couldn't he move up if he wanted / was ready to? Why should Jett's abnormal success be used as an example to the detriment of...
Why couldn't he move up if he wanted / was ready to?

Why should Jett's abnormal success be used as an example to the detriment of developing riders?
Well ol Sloan, you can't have it both ways. If your 23 yr and move up rule was in place then Jett has all the right to stick around for 3 more years. The detriment would be on the rule and not Jett.

BTW, this topic has been flogged to death and all questions answered and debated in other identical threads.

10/4/2022 9:44am
Someone consistently finishing 20th in the 250 class on the best bike and team should not have a factory ride the next year. Call it cut throat or whatever you want idc. Leave out the fact that a large part of why these kids get these rides in the first place is bc they have been on factory equipment (or at least something better than all of their competition) since they were 10 years old.

Fuck that, level the playing field, let the actually fast dudes who put in the work get the rides regardless of age (although I agree to some extent on dudes like craig, Jmart, etc).

Give his ride to someone like Derek Kelley.
TerryB
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10/4/2022 9:47am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 9:48am
dsc131 wrote:
I believe you intentionally used that term "Lites" to build your case. There is a 250 class and a 450 class. The 250 class in motocross...
I believe you intentionally used that term "Lites" to build your case.

There is a 250 class and a 450 class. The 250 class in motocross is not a development class; it's just a class. You can be 16 or 60, which is awesome. If the bike suits your skillset better, why shouldn't you be able to showcase that? Mark Barnett springs to mind.

No doubt LeBlanc got a raw deal from Star.

But...
Why should older riders get pushed out for younger riders if they are faster? Do they deserve the job more?

You want to win...or be in the top 10? Be faster than at least 30 other people on the gate.

This. If we want a development class for young riders, bring back 125's. You could even call it "Lites".
toddw12
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10/4/2022 10:08am
It's a tough sport and not everyone makes it. He's young and still has time to make a career out of anything he decides to. Good luck Matt!
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Hasletjoe
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10/4/2022 10:28am
If you are going to promote a rider due to his/her age, then you must also exclude them from riding in the 450 class.

As an ancient slow rider, I would hate to have to race a pesky 55 year old in my vaunted, but slow, 0ver 60 class. To me, the fastest rider should reap the rewards. No setting a quota based off age or any other factor.

But then again, I am old. Nap time!
1
mmcmx
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10/4/2022 10:37am
Hats Off wrote:
Because watching craig ride around 20 seconds ahwad of a bunch of kids was really great racing last season
It wasnt a walk in the park for him, but still you make my point, Thats because the stupid points rule. Mcelrath, Savatgy, etc should have been there.
10/4/2022 10:50am
Titan1 wrote:
“lites class”?….I can’t stand that term…worst class name ever.
less filling class?
10/4/2022 10:50am
Yep that’s why Vialle is coming over here next year. Great idea
No, if it was just outdoors, Vialle is more than ready for the 450 class.
He has limited sx experience, that's why he has gone the 250 path.
shuggs
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10/4/2022 10:51am
Hats Off wrote:
I think its great that these older riders had to demote themselves to domestic championships or run with the big dogs in the 450s. All the...
I think its great that these older riders had to demote themselves to domestic championships or run with the big dogs in the 450s.

All the names mentioned were the usual suspects who would have hung around and taken up seats. You probably wouldn't have had rides available for Geerts, vialle, lagenfelder and others early on in their careers if they had to compete for rides with the names mentioned. Thats exactly why the rule works so well and has been such a successful policy in mxgp
2nd paragraph.

If 'these guys' had the opportunity to stay MX2 for another year or 2 it may have forced the youngsters to stay down (or maybe even race local GP's as wildcards) to gain more experience.

Maybe its just me but do not like pros retiring early (under 30) with what seems like burn out. I have always said leave them to be kids and do kid things as well as ride. The thought of them lacking social skills is a worry with them only mixing with other moto kids.

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