13+ pages and yet nobody has asked this simple question...

HuskyEd
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8/13/2022 1:02pm
lostboy819 wrote:
Sounds more like EID Dave
Dave's never been afraid to use his own account to express his opinion.
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3
Broseph
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8/13/2022 1:10pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2022 2:39pm
lostboy819 wrote:
Sounds more like EID Dave
HuskyEd wrote:
Dave's never been afraid to use his own account to express his opinion.
Dude with an hours-old account creates a whole new thread just to draw attention to his own opinion… This is clearly the ghost of J Sloan.
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 1:22pm
plowboy wrote:
The very BOTTOM line is that a legal claim was made. The AMA recognised the claim. Someone or others allowed this kid to be "talked" into...
The very BOTTOM line is that a legal claim was made. The AMA recognised the claim. Someone or others allowed this kid to be "talked" into dropping his claim. I (we) don't really know much more than that.

Imo...that's enough to to present the "appearance of impropriety".

I've always said, "if you won't tell me the truth...I'll make up a lie".

This is a shit show. So many bad decisions by grown men in positions of influence and power.
Sore Loser wrote:
Your bottom line I have no problem with. But Im asking, how do we know it was the dealership that talked the kid out of it...
Your bottom line I have no problem with. But Im asking, how do we know it was the dealership that talked the kid out of it. How do we know the motives of the dealership to talk the kid out of it?

The fact is, we dont. Yet all sorts of conclusions are being drawn. The kid Brennan himself doesnt even explain how he knows that Yamaha Corp is pressuring his dealer. He doesnt ever clarify if it was his dealer that directly asked him to drop the claim.

Go listen. It's the one part of that whole video where Brennan goes from being VERY direct and clear in his explanation to things getting a bit murky. He talks about the food chain of events as if it is conjecture.

Everyone in this sport knows that claiming is taboo. For all we know his sponsor, on their own behalf, said "dont do this kid - it's a bad look" and the kid took the advice. That means Yamaha never got involved. And it means that no wrong was committed. Because it's totally within the boundaries of decency for a sponsor to talk a kid out of a potential mistake.

Now do I think the claim itself was a mistake? Fuck no. I like the rule and understand why it's needed. But what goes on between a rider and his sponsor is there business and no reason for me to condemn MX Sports, Cotter, Deegan, Yamaha or anyone else. Not yet at least. Not until I know this Brennan kid is telling the absolute truth, cause if he's not, HOW IS THAT NOT RELEVANT HERE?!?
Tiki wrote:
Claiming is Taboo? Only of you are sucking the tit of sponsors. Otherwise, it keeps the field honest. This is why MX has lost grass roots...
Claiming is Taboo? Only of you are sucking the tit of sponsors. Otherwise, it keeps the field honest. This is why MX has lost grass roots and sucks ass today.

The sport needs help. If you cant race on a showroom stock bike, this is a problem. Bikes are costing $10K

Maybe more rules should be evaluated?
Yes claiming is taboo. It's in poor taste. Especially if the motive is just to needle your opponent. It's very easy for me to see why the dealership, on their own behalf, would talk Brennan out of the stunt.

But I'll also say this again for the 10th time, the rule is a good rule. It should be enforced more often. The AMA never in a million years should've let a MX Sports employee get involved. And Im going to be totally floored if Brian did indeed talk to this kid on his own because he knows that was out of line - he'd literally burn the place down if anyone EVER tried to corner his kid, as would any decent father.

But there are some other versions of the story going around that have totally been lost in the rush to get the pitchforks out. One being the timing of the events. What if we find out that Cotter was the only one grilling Brennan? What if we find out that Cotter's intentions were to make sure that it wasnt Star that was intimidating Brennan into dropping the claim? Doesnt that change the entire look of all this? Imagine you're Tim Cotter and your name is getting dragged thru the mud and all you were doing was looking out for the rulebook and the kid making the justified claim?

I think those are fair questions to be asking. And I think a lot of dust is yet to be settled on this before I want to condemn anyone involved.

Do I think the "mobs" opinion of what is fucked up in all this is flawed? No. I actually agree with what just about everyone has said in the other thread. Im in 110% agreement with you about the flaws in grass roots racing. Im just wondering why everyone is so quick to assume one side of a bitter rivalry is gospel?

So again, how did Brennan know Yamaha Corp got involved? Did they actually get involved? So far if those were easily answered questions, someone would've surely done so already.
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 1:26pm
ttusomeone wrote:
All we know for sure is that he made a claim and then later withdrew it. The reasons for withdrawing it come down to what one...
All we know for sure is that he made a claim and then later withdrew it. The reasons for withdrawing it come down to what one side is saying and a lot of people speculating. It's also interesting to me that this kid is, in my opinion, more famous for making the claim and then withdrawing it than he would have been if the claim had went through. We would have all forgotten about the claim by now if he had the bike. He's getting a lot more PR this route. In this YouTube age, this angle also at least needs to be considered.
One version of the story is that Brennan's goals with the bike were to make YouTube videos with it. Potentially not just letting his mechanic tear the motor down, but showing it off to the world. He would've hauled a hefty profit on that $17k he supposedly borrowed from his mechanic.

Within his rights to do so? Yes.
Was Yamaha stupid for sending a factory motor to a race where it could be claimed? Absolutely.

But if the kid is lying about his motives, how he got the money, and why he dropped the claim... this whole mess gets a lot more convoluted real quick.
32

The Shop

8/13/2022 1:33pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2022 1:33pm
Sore Loser wrote:
One version of the story is that Brennan's goals with the bike were to make YouTube videos with it. Potentially not just letting his mechanic tear...
One version of the story is that Brennan's goals with the bike were to make YouTube videos with it. Potentially not just letting his mechanic tear the motor down, but showing it off to the world. He would've hauled a hefty profit on that $17k he supposedly borrowed from his mechanic.

Within his rights to do so? Yes.
Was Yamaha stupid for sending a factory motor to a race where it could be claimed? Absolutely.

But if the kid is lying about his motives, how he got the money, and why he dropped the claim... this whole mess gets a lot more convoluted real quick.
That's the whole point of the rule Brian. So people don't bring unobtanium to an amateur race. He has every right to tear the engine apart and do whatever he pleases including profit off of it. You could of brought a lesser spec bike, it's on you.
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 1:33pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2022 1:39pm
It doesn't matter if his engine builder fronted the cash. It could have very well been all of Derek's cash, or a portion of it i.e...
It doesn't matter if his engine builder fronted the cash. It could have very well been all of Derek's cash, or a portion of it i.e. "let's split it 50/50".

But both the source of the cash and his motivation for doing it are completely irrelevant. The rule states that if you hand over the cash to the AMA to claim the bike then the bike is yours.
JRT812 wrote:
Forgive me ignorance….why is it allowed for anyone to fork up the money when claiming a bike and then the bike owner is forced to hand...
Forgive me ignorance….why is it allowed for anyone to fork up the money when claiming a bike and then the bike owner is forced to hand over the bike? What if the bike owner didn’t want give it away?
It's not for anyone to do. You can only claim another racer's bike if they are in your same race.

It's meant to prevent factory bikes into amateur racing. Even in the mod class. Raising kids is expensive enough as it is.

The bigger question to ask on that tangent is why the fuck are FACTORY TEAMS/RIDERS allowed in the B class of an amateur event? Why, because pros are allowed in the A class, which should be reserved for amateur experts IMO. It's the AMATEUR nationals yet they have pros racing. I'll never understand that.

Pro's belong in pro or pro-am classes. And A riders should have their own place to race at Lorrettas IMO. Which is where Haiden belongs. Would that prevent him from having a factory bike and skirting the spirit of the rules? No, not at all. But it would cool some of the animosity that his fellow competitors feel towards him. Many of them think it's bullshit he's allowed to race B with them. There's nothing about Haiden that is B class. He's one of the fastest HUMANS on the planet. In fact, it's debatable whether he (and most of his peers) are even amateurs considering the sponsorship deals they have.

Would a claim be allowed in a true amateur A class? Yes. Would it happen like this? I think it's far less likely.
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19
aees
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8/13/2022 1:34pm
ttusomeone wrote:
All we know for sure is that he made a claim and then later withdrew it. The reasons for withdrawing it come down to what one...
All we know for sure is that he made a claim and then later withdrew it. The reasons for withdrawing it come down to what one side is saying and a lot of people speculating. It's also interesting to me that this kid is, in my opinion, more famous for making the claim and then withdrawing it than he would have been if the claim had went through. We would have all forgotten about the claim by now if he had the bike. He's getting a lot more PR this route. In this YouTube age, this angle also at least needs to be considered.
Sore Loser wrote:
One version of the story is that Brennan's goals with the bike were to make YouTube videos with it. Potentially not just letting his mechanic tear...
One version of the story is that Brennan's goals with the bike were to make YouTube videos with it. Potentially not just letting his mechanic tear the motor down, but showing it off to the world. He would've hauled a hefty profit on that $17k he supposedly borrowed from his mechanic.

Within his rights to do so? Yes.
Was Yamaha stupid for sending a factory motor to a race where it could be claimed? Absolutely.

But if the kid is lying about his motives, how he got the money, and why he dropped the claim... this whole mess gets a lot more convoluted real quick.
Take of the tin foil hat please.

And: It. Does. Not. Matter. What. His. Motive. Was.

No one cares. Claim should have gone through.
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 1:37pm
aees wrote:
You dont have a lot of life experience, do you? Always someone who tries to find a string of "what if" to get a whole case...
You dont have a lot of life experience, do you?

Always someone who tries to find a string of "what if" to get a whole case thrown out of it.

It's obvious what happend after the claim was made. The reason why he claimed the bike or got his cash or any other detail is completely irrelevant anymore.

It's the way this was handled by everyone on the event and Yamaha side that makes it a complete cluster fuck.

Just delete this thread please.
Every detail is relevant if it is found out that someone is lying. Especially when you really only have one side of the story at this point.

We've heard Brennan's. That's it.

I guess you could say we heard MX Sports/DC's version but I could care less what they are going to say being that their journalistic credibility has long been compromised. And more importantly, they werent exactly directly involved in some of the key moments in all this.
25
Sandusky26
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8/13/2022 1:38pm
jjavaman wrote:
Deegans burner account?
lostboy819 wrote:
Sounds more like EID Dave
Damn, I just called it in the other thread. Good job.
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Tiki
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8/13/2022 1:38pm
Sore Loser wrote:
Your bottom line I have no problem with. But Im asking, how do we know it was the dealership that talked the kid out of it...
Your bottom line I have no problem with. But Im asking, how do we know it was the dealership that talked the kid out of it. How do we know the motives of the dealership to talk the kid out of it?

The fact is, we dont. Yet all sorts of conclusions are being drawn. The kid Brennan himself doesnt even explain how he knows that Yamaha Corp is pressuring his dealer. He doesnt ever clarify if it was his dealer that directly asked him to drop the claim.

Go listen. It's the one part of that whole video where Brennan goes from being VERY direct and clear in his explanation to things getting a bit murky. He talks about the food chain of events as if it is conjecture.

Everyone in this sport knows that claiming is taboo. For all we know his sponsor, on their own behalf, said "dont do this kid - it's a bad look" and the kid took the advice. That means Yamaha never got involved. And it means that no wrong was committed. Because it's totally within the boundaries of decency for a sponsor to talk a kid out of a potential mistake.

Now do I think the claim itself was a mistake? Fuck no. I like the rule and understand why it's needed. But what goes on between a rider and his sponsor is there business and no reason for me to condemn MX Sports, Cotter, Deegan, Yamaha or anyone else. Not yet at least. Not until I know this Brennan kid is telling the absolute truth, cause if he's not, HOW IS THAT NOT RELEVANT HERE?!?
Tiki wrote:
Claiming is Taboo? Only of you are sucking the tit of sponsors. Otherwise, it keeps the field honest. This is why MX has lost grass roots...
Claiming is Taboo? Only of you are sucking the tit of sponsors. Otherwise, it keeps the field honest. This is why MX has lost grass roots and sucks ass today.

The sport needs help. If you cant race on a showroom stock bike, this is a problem. Bikes are costing $10K

Maybe more rules should be evaluated?
Sore Loser wrote:
Yes claiming is taboo. It's in poor taste. Especially if the motive is just to needle your opponent. It's very easy for me to see why...
Yes claiming is taboo. It's in poor taste. Especially if the motive is just to needle your opponent. It's very easy for me to see why the dealership, on their own behalf, would talk Brennan out of the stunt.

But I'll also say this again for the 10th time, the rule is a good rule. It should be enforced more often. The AMA never in a million years should've let a MX Sports employee get involved. And Im going to be totally floored if Brian did indeed talk to this kid on his own because he knows that was out of line - he'd literally burn the place down if anyone EVER tried to corner his kid, as would any decent father.

But there are some other versions of the story going around that have totally been lost in the rush to get the pitchforks out. One being the timing of the events. What if we find out that Cotter was the only one grilling Brennan? What if we find out that Cotter's intentions were to make sure that it wasnt Star that was intimidating Brennan into dropping the claim? Doesnt that change the entire look of all this? Imagine you're Tim Cotter and your name is getting dragged thru the mud and all you were doing was looking out for the rulebook and the kid making the justified claim?

I think those are fair questions to be asking. And I think a lot of dust is yet to be settled on this before I want to condemn anyone involved.

Do I think the "mobs" opinion of what is fucked up in all this is flawed? No. I actually agree with what just about everyone has said in the other thread. Im in 110% agreement with you about the flaws in grass roots racing. Im just wondering why everyone is so quick to assume one side of a bitter rivalry is gospel?

So again, how did Brennan know Yamaha Corp got involved? Did they actually get involved? So far if those were easily answered questions, someone would've surely done so already.
How can you have a Good Rule that is Taboo if it is never enforced?

I believe you may be conflating taboo in the manner of taking something away from a grass roots racer. Someone that Worked Hard to get to Loretta's or any race and this is their only bike. Paying for a factory bike from a factory team. That really isn't doing anything bad.

As far as the other stories, I haven't heard them and there are three sides to every story. In another thread I asked you, can you take the other side and tell us why is it right for the Deegan Family and MX Sports to get involved.

Both literally have no reason to be involved from the perspective: The Deegans are contracted to ride Yamaha/Star Yamaha Team bikes.They don't own them or lose anything. MX Sports is a Promoter and has a contract to allow the AMA be the rule maker. The AMA is simply doing what they were brought in to do.

This is why there are questions. This is the optics look skewed.
2
Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 1:40pm
ttusomeone wrote:
All we know for sure is that he made a claim and then later withdrew it. The reasons for withdrawing it come down to what one...
All we know for sure is that he made a claim and then later withdrew it. The reasons for withdrawing it come down to what one side is saying and a lot of people speculating. It's also interesting to me that this kid is, in my opinion, more famous for making the claim and then withdrawing it than he would have been if the claim had went through. We would have all forgotten about the claim by now if he had the bike. He's getting a lot more PR this route. In this YouTube age, this angle also at least needs to be considered.
Sore Loser wrote:
One version of the story is that Brennan's goals with the bike were to make YouTube videos with it. Potentially not just letting his mechanic tear...
One version of the story is that Brennan's goals with the bike were to make YouTube videos with it. Potentially not just letting his mechanic tear the motor down, but showing it off to the world. He would've hauled a hefty profit on that $17k he supposedly borrowed from his mechanic.

Within his rights to do so? Yes.
Was Yamaha stupid for sending a factory motor to a race where it could be claimed? Absolutely.

But if the kid is lying about his motives, how he got the money, and why he dropped the claim... this whole mess gets a lot more convoluted real quick.
aees wrote:
Take of the tin foil hat please.

And: It. Does. Not. Matter. What. His. Motive. Was.

No one cares. Claim should have gone through.
It matters if a significant portion of Brennan's story is a lie.
24
aees
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8/13/2022 1:43pm
Sore Loser wrote:
One version of the story is that Brennan's goals with the bike were to make YouTube videos with it. Potentially not just letting his mechanic tear...
One version of the story is that Brennan's goals with the bike were to make YouTube videos with it. Potentially not just letting his mechanic tear the motor down, but showing it off to the world. He would've hauled a hefty profit on that $17k he supposedly borrowed from his mechanic.

Within his rights to do so? Yes.
Was Yamaha stupid for sending a factory motor to a race where it could be claimed? Absolutely.

But if the kid is lying about his motives, how he got the money, and why he dropped the claim... this whole mess gets a lot more convoluted real quick.
aees wrote:
Take of the tin foil hat please.

And: It. Does. Not. Matter. What. His. Motive. Was.

No one cares. Claim should have gone through.
Sore Loser wrote:
It matters if a significant portion of Brennan's story is a lie.
You don't need the story from everyone to understand what happened. There is enough information out there to understand who is in the wrong, and that is all that matters.

Just delete this thread now.
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1
Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 1:53pm
Tiki wrote:
How can you have a Good Rule that is Taboo if it is never enforced? I believe you may be conflating taboo in the manner of...
How can you have a Good Rule that is Taboo if it is never enforced?

I believe you may be conflating taboo in the manner of taking something away from a grass roots racer. Someone that Worked Hard to get to Loretta's or any race and this is their only bike. Paying for a factory bike from a factory team. That really isn't doing anything bad.

As far as the other stories, I haven't heard them and there are three sides to every story. In another thread I asked you, can you take the other side and tell us why is it right for the Deegan Family and MX Sports to get involved.

Both literally have no reason to be involved from the perspective: The Deegans are contracted to ride Yamaha/Star Yamaha Team bikes.They don't own them or lose anything. MX Sports is a Promoter and has a contract to allow the AMA be the rule maker. The AMA is simply doing what they were brought in to do.

This is why there are questions. This is the optics look skewed.
It's taboo because it's frowned upon. EVERY bike in B and Pro Sport at Lorrettas has $30k+ put into it when you considering all the testing and parts. If your intentions is to go take someone's bike at half the cost of it, that is why it is frowned upon. Literally NOBODY is happy to have their bike claimed, legal or not. Anyone that makes it to that level of competition has a personal relationship with their bike. It's almost like claiming another person's dog at a dog show.

The same reason it is taboo is why the rule exists. That is why it is a good rule. It's to prevent competitors from pouring so much into the bike that the sport is a spending war. I personally think the sport as a whole needs to get over it and claiming should be more common. It would be good for amateur racing. I also think professionals do not belong at the amateur races but that's another topic.

I'll answer your other question: The Deegan family and MX Sports have ZERO right to get involved with a claim. NONE. ZILCH. NADA. ABSOLUTELY FUCKING WRONG.

My question is did the Deegan's actually get involved? Why are we so quick to believe a 17 year old? Im giving Brian the benefit of the doubt because I know him to be a good man. If he talked to the kid directly, even if under the supervision of MX Sports, then my opinion of Brian will change very quickly.

My other question is what actually was Tim Cotter doing? He had NO BUSINESS getting involved. This is not the promoter's wheelhouse. It's the sanctioning body's. The AMA should've never let him in the room or got him involved. Full stop - ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. ..... if true. It also changes my opinion if I find out this version to be true, that Tim Cotter stepped in to do what the AMA wouldnt, which is make sure the kid wasnt being pressured to drop the claim by Star, Deegan, Yamaha or anyone else. If Tim was looking out for the rules and the kid - then I actually commend him for stepping up when everyone else was letting the kid get railroaded. The fact is, there are two versions of the timetable and events that are floating around and I do not know which one is true.
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 1:56pm
aees wrote:
Take of the tin foil hat please.

And: It. Does. Not. Matter. What. His. Motive. Was.

No one cares. Claim should have gone through.
Sore Loser wrote:
It matters if a significant portion of Brennan's story is a lie.
aees wrote:
You don't need the story from everyone to understand what happened. There is enough information out there to understand who is in the wrong, and that...
You don't need the story from everyone to understand what happened. There is enough information out there to understand who is in the wrong, and that is all that matters.

Just delete this thread now.
You actually expect me to take you seriously?

1. You dont want all sides/versions of the story

2. You want any dissent to be censored

You really think you sound like the rational party here?

Nobody is forcing you to click this thread. Go to the other one if critical thinking aint for you.
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18
8/13/2022 1:58pm
The fee was paid for the bike as per the rule. The bike was not handed over.

It’s irrelevant who is telling the truth.

The rules are the rules except when someone doesn’t like the rules…
14
seth505
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8/13/2022 1:58pm
Sore Loser wrote:
Yes claiming is taboo. It's in poor taste. Especially if the motive is just to needle your opponent. It's very easy for me to see why...
Yes claiming is taboo. It's in poor taste. Especially if the motive is just to needle your opponent. It's very easy for me to see why the dealership, on their own behalf, would talk Brennan out of the stunt.

But I'll also say this again for the 10th time, the rule is a good rule. It should be enforced more often. The AMA never in a million years should've let a MX Sports employee get involved. And Im going to be totally floored if Brian did indeed talk to this kid on his own because he knows that was out of line - he'd literally burn the place down if anyone EVER tried to corner his kid, as would any decent father.

But there are some other versions of the story going around that have totally been lost in the rush to get the pitchforks out. One being the timing of the events. What if we find out that Cotter was the only one grilling Brennan? What if we find out that Cotter's intentions were to make sure that it wasnt Star that was intimidating Brennan into dropping the claim? Doesnt that change the entire look of all this? Imagine you're Tim Cotter and your name is getting dragged thru the mud and all you were doing was looking out for the rulebook and the kid making the justified claim?

I think those are fair questions to be asking. And I think a lot of dust is yet to be settled on this before I want to condemn anyone involved.

Do I think the "mobs" opinion of what is fucked up in all this is flawed? No. I actually agree with what just about everyone has said in the other thread. Im in 110% agreement with you about the flaws in grass roots racing. Im just wondering why everyone is so quick to assume one side of a bitter rivalry is gospel?

So again, how did Brennan know Yamaha Corp got involved? Did they actually get involved? So far if those were easily answered questions, someone would've surely done so already.
Which is it, the rule is a good rule or it’s in poor taste/taboo to even consider acting on it? Don’t play both sides.
4
aees
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8/13/2022 2:04pm
Sore Loser wrote:
It matters if a significant portion of Brennan's story is a lie.
aees wrote:
You don't need the story from everyone to understand what happened. There is enough information out there to understand who is in the wrong, and that...
You don't need the story from everyone to understand what happened. There is enough information out there to understand who is in the wrong, and that is all that matters.

Just delete this thread now.
Sore Loser wrote:
You actually expect me to take you seriously? 1. You dont want all sides/versions of the story 2. You want any dissent to be censored You...
You actually expect me to take you seriously?

1. You dont want all sides/versions of the story

2. You want any dissent to be censored

You really think you sound like the rational party here?

Nobody is forcing you to click this thread. Go to the other one if critical thinking aint for you.
Something serious would be to lock or delete this thread.

I understand you are someone that need all facts written down and conform to make conclusion. Most of us don't when it's this clear.

You are grabbing for straws that won't change the outcome - huge cluster fuck and shitshow from Yamaha, Deegans and MX-Sports.

So instead of starting a thread questioning something that's is completely irrelevant for the focus of this happening, start a thread about questioning Yamaha and their partners behavior and save us all some time.

This thread looks like something the Deegans would start.
5
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 2:06pm
seth505 wrote:
Which is it, the rule is a good rule or it’s in poor taste/taboo to even consider acting on it? Don’t play both sides.
It's both. These are not mutually exclusive.

What is taboo or not is not my call. Im just telling you what the overall culture of this sport is. Claiming should happen way more often than it does but because of the culture of the sport, many refrain from doing so.

I personally think it's a good rule. I personally do not think it should be taboo too claim a bike. But I do not make the cultural rules. I think maybe you and others think Im advocating for it to be taboo. Im not. In fact, Im one of those racers that would probably be doing it all the time just to keep my competitors honest. Im also one of those racers that could be easily talked out of it by a sponsor.

There's more nuance to this whole mess than people are willing to admit.
1
19
Tiki
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8/13/2022 2:09pm
Tiki wrote:
How can you have a Good Rule that is Taboo if it is never enforced? I believe you may be conflating taboo in the manner of...
How can you have a Good Rule that is Taboo if it is never enforced?

I believe you may be conflating taboo in the manner of taking something away from a grass roots racer. Someone that Worked Hard to get to Loretta's or any race and this is their only bike. Paying for a factory bike from a factory team. That really isn't doing anything bad.

As far as the other stories, I haven't heard them and there are three sides to every story. In another thread I asked you, can you take the other side and tell us why is it right for the Deegan Family and MX Sports to get involved.

Both literally have no reason to be involved from the perspective: The Deegans are contracted to ride Yamaha/Star Yamaha Team bikes.They don't own them or lose anything. MX Sports is a Promoter and has a contract to allow the AMA be the rule maker. The AMA is simply doing what they were brought in to do.

This is why there are questions. This is the optics look skewed.
Sore Loser wrote:
It's taboo because it's frowned upon. EVERY bike in B and Pro Sport at Lorrettas has $30k+ put into it when you considering all the testing...
It's taboo because it's frowned upon. EVERY bike in B and Pro Sport at Lorrettas has $30k+ put into it when you considering all the testing and parts. If your intentions is to go take someone's bike at half the cost of it, that is why it is frowned upon. Literally NOBODY is happy to have their bike claimed, legal or not. Anyone that makes it to that level of competition has a personal relationship with their bike. It's almost like claiming another person's dog at a dog show.

The same reason it is taboo is why the rule exists. That is why it is a good rule. It's to prevent competitors from pouring so much into the bike that the sport is a spending war. I personally think the sport as a whole needs to get over it and claiming should be more common. It would be good for amateur racing. I also think professionals do not belong at the amateur races but that's another topic.

I'll answer your other question: The Deegan family and MX Sports have ZERO right to get involved with a claim. NONE. ZILCH. NADA. ABSOLUTELY FUCKING WRONG.

My question is did the Deegan's actually get involved? Why are we so quick to believe a 17 year old? Im giving Brian the benefit of the doubt because I know him to be a good man. If he talked to the kid directly, even if under the supervision of MX Sports, then my opinion of Brian will change very quickly.

My other question is what actually was Tim Cotter doing? He had NO BUSINESS getting involved. This is not the promoter's wheelhouse. It's the sanctioning body's. The AMA should've never let him in the room or got him involved. Full stop - ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. ..... if true. It also changes my opinion if I find out this version to be true, that Tim Cotter stepped in to do what the AMA wouldnt, which is make sure the kid wasnt being pressured to drop the claim by Star, Deegan, Yamaha or anyone else. If Tim was looking out for the rules and the kid - then I actually commend him for stepping up when everyone else was letting the kid get railroaded. The fact is, there are two versions of the timetable and events that are floating around and I do not know which one is true.
I CRINGE at that reasoning - Regardless its Amateur racing. That's on those that want to build expensive bikes. There should be no reason for them to put that much money into the bikes for a race that pays nothing. This is clearly breaking the rules of the sport period.

I follow you from there. Unknown if the Deegans or MX Sports did get involved. We do have to take his word on it until someone says differently. Still the the bike has not been given over, that's suspect.
Thanks.
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 2:10pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2022 2:11pm
aees wrote:
Something serious would be to lock or delete this thread. I understand you are someone that need all facts written down and conform to make conclusion...
Something serious would be to lock or delete this thread.

I understand you are someone that need all facts written down and conform to make conclusion. Most of us don't when it's this clear.

You are grabbing for straws that won't change the outcome - huge cluster fuck and shitshow from Yamaha, Deegans and MX-Sports.

So instead of starting a thread questioning something that's is completely irrelevant for the focus of this happening, start a thread about questioning Yamaha and their partners behavior and save us all some time.

This thread looks like something the Deegans would start.
There are plenty of other threads shitting on Yamaha. If you want to go start more, go for it.

And again, if Yamaha never got involved, that's relevant.

If Deegan never got involved, that's relevant.

If Brennan is lying about any part of his story, that's relevant.

All I've asked is how everyone came so quickly to believe every detail that 17 year old with an axe to grind has to tell. And so far, nobody has been able to actually answer that question. In fact, your response is to demand I stop asking the question. If that isnt suspect than I dont know what is. Simply telling me to shut up is not a very solid argument.
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8/13/2022 2:14pm
lostboy819 wrote:
Sounds more like EID Dave
HuskyEd wrote:
Dave's never been afraid to use his own account to express his opinion.
All Dave's accounts have been banned after he lost his mind the last time he was here.
8/13/2022 2:15pm
Sore Loser wrote:
It matters if a significant portion of Brennan's story is a lie.
Prove it.
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wreckitrandy
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8/13/2022 2:17pm
There are only two ways we the uninvolved ever see the kid justified. One, and it'll never happen, the principle of the dealership confirms the story. He's on lockdown already. Two, very unlikely as well, it goes to court and phone records are made public. The kid's reputation was tarnished as soon as he put the wheels in motion. He would have fared better to have stayed in the game than pull stakes.
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aees
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8/13/2022 2:19pm
aees wrote:
Something serious would be to lock or delete this thread. I understand you are someone that need all facts written down and conform to make conclusion...
Something serious would be to lock or delete this thread.

I understand you are someone that need all facts written down and conform to make conclusion. Most of us don't when it's this clear.

You are grabbing for straws that won't change the outcome - huge cluster fuck and shitshow from Yamaha, Deegans and MX-Sports.

So instead of starting a thread questioning something that's is completely irrelevant for the focus of this happening, start a thread about questioning Yamaha and their partners behavior and save us all some time.

This thread looks like something the Deegans would start.
Sore Loser wrote:
There are plenty of other threads shitting on Yamaha. If you want to go start more, go for it. And again, if Yamaha never got involved...
There are plenty of other threads shitting on Yamaha. If you want to go start more, go for it.

And again, if Yamaha never got involved, that's relevant.

If Deegan never got involved, that's relevant.

If Brennan is lying about any part of his story, that's relevant.

All I've asked is how everyone came so quickly to believe every detail that 17 year old with an axe to grind has to tell. And so far, nobody has been able to actually answer that question. In fact, your response is to demand I stop asking the question. If that isnt suspect than I dont know what is. Simply telling me to shut up is not a very solid argument.
That's the thing you dont seem to get, you don't need to understand every detail to know what went down to the extent that you know who was in the wrong.

Forget what the kid ever said. It does not matter. You don't seem to understand that, you are looking to highlight things that is in no way relevant for who is in the wrong.

So again, no, we don't need to hear another official word or interview from anyone, ever again, to understand want went on there.
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 2:20pm
Tiki wrote:
I CRINGE at that reasoning - Regardless its Amateur racing. That's on those that want to build expensive bikes. There should be no reason for them...
I CRINGE at that reasoning - Regardless its Amateur racing. That's on those that want to build expensive bikes. There should be no reason for them to put that much money into the bikes for a race that pays nothing. This is clearly breaking the rules of the sport period.

I follow you from there. Unknown if the Deegans or MX Sports did get involved. We do have to take his word on it until someone says differently. Still the the bike has not been given over, that's suspect.
Thanks.
From the looks of the comments on Vital, most people made up their mind long before the Brennan interview came out.

I think that is what I find cringe. Is that there were various accounts of the whole drama, and very quickly the mob decided which one they were going with. And when Brennan's version comes out and it aligns with what people had already deemed to be fact, that is textbook confirmation bias.

And now people are bent because they do not want to have to walk it back when they obviously jumped to conclusions. I think when you've been as successful as the Deegans have been, you're going to have a lot of people just waiting for the first chance to shit all over you. It's pretty much a staple of American culture. This was that moment for a lot of people to dump on them. In the same vein of thought, the AMA, MX Sports, and DC to some degree have built up their own army of haters (justified in many cases) so when they potentially shit the bed again in such a high profile way, anyone with any semblance of moral fiber uses this moment to get riled up. This is a chance for years/decades worth of frustration to be dumped out.

Im not even crucifying the mob. Americans are pretty fed up with corruption right now. It's just the social climate.
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 2:22pm
Sore Loser wrote:
It matters if a significant portion of Brennan's story is a lie.
lostboy819 wrote:
Prove it.
Prove what?

You want proof that lying is relevant to a person's credibility???
17
Jeremy A.K.
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8/13/2022 2:22pm
Sore Loser wrote:
Since the other thread is basically a "shit all over Yamaha and the Deegans" love fest, I figured a new thread might be warranted for the...
Since the other thread is basically a "shit all over Yamaha and the Deegans" love fest, I figured a new thread might be warranted for the 2 or 3 of us that arent looking for an excuse to be pissed off or shit on the Deegans. Maybe a pause for some critical thinking and basic questions before drawing any conclusions.

How do we know Brennan is telling the truth?


I'll give him this, he's articulate, and his way of telling his account of what went down comes across as extremely credible. It's how I'd expect someone to tell the truth IF they were telling the truth.

But we havent heard the other side's version of events. And most importantly, Brennan never says how he knew Yamaha Corp was pressuring his sponsor. He clearly states in the interview at around the 17:30 mark what he assumes was the food chain of events. But he never specifically says how he knows this. And the interviewer (Tyler) never asks for clarification.

That to me is a significant moment in the interview. Because if the kid is just ASSUMING his dealership was being pressured, that is a big red flag and it calls into question the rest of his account of the events.

Another thing I find odd, he plays the innocent victim here very well. Never mentions for a moment that he and Haiden have personal beef with each other. He "just wanted to see what it was like to ride a factory bike". Really? That's ALL there is to this story? Now dont get me wrong, Brennan does not have to justify the why. The claim of the bike was within the rules - and the rule is a good one. The bottom line, dont want your unobtanium bike claimed, DONT BRING ONE TO AN AMATEUR RACE. But before I wholesale believe EVERY detail of your story, I want to know all the details. And a significant one is that these two groups have history. This was more than just "wanting to see what a factory bike felt like". Is that relevant to the claiming rule? No, not at all. But it is relevant to the credibility of this Brennan kid. So before I jump on his bandwagon and take everything as gospel, I pause and wonder why certain details are being left out.

If the Deegans are the new Alessis, lets not forget that the Alessis drama didnt exist in a vacuum. He had his rivals and those rivals werent saints either. Other equally overzealous mini dads. And plenty of ankle biting that fueled all the bullshit that went on between all parties involved.

I think it's only fair these questions are asked. Because when I talk to people "in the know" they're telling a very different version of all of this. For example:

- The engine builder fronted the cash for the claim
- Tim Cotter only interviewed Brennan AFTER the claim was rescinded and did so to make sure he wasnt being pressured by Yamaha
- I've heard some say that Brian Deegan never actually cornered the kid

Are any of those statements factual? Of course not. All Im saying is that if you can get past the mob mentality, there's actually another version of the story floating around that severely contradicts what a 17 year old kid is claiming.

I for one think that if indeed that kid was talked to privately by Cotter, Deegan, or anyone NOT the AMA, a SERIOUS line was crossed because again, he's a kid. But to be consistent, I also know that KIDS LIE all the time. So if you're not an adult, you dont get the benefit of the doubt like an adult either.

Hi Brian
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8/13/2022 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2022 2:27pm
yak651 wrote:
Please point to the clause in the rules where you can’t claim the bike if you have beef with the rider or you receive financial assistance...
Please point to the clause in the rules where you can’t claim the bike if you have beef with the rider or you receive financial assistance. The only truth we know for sure is he posted a receipt for putting up the cash and never received the bike.
Sore Loser wrote:
Please point to where I said that the kid was in any way in the wrong in his claim. I specifically said he doesnt have to...
Please point to where I said that the kid was in any way in the wrong in his claim. I specifically said he doesnt have to justify the claim.

Im calling into question his credibility tho if he's lying about anything in his version of the story. Is that not fair?

Y'all would make some interesting jurors in court. Just hear one side of a minor and boom, guilty, lock the defendant up, throw away the key.

If Yamaha pressured the dealership, it's TOTAL BULLSHIT AND HEADS SHOULD ROLL. But again, how do we know that actually happened? Does Brennan actually know that happened or is it conjecture? It's a very relevant question to be asking.
So, your position in this is to reserve judgement on the Deegan's but the Brennan kid is lying. That's your defense. Ok, got it. Check.

Here's the issue I have outside of the Yamaha issue - which is a BIG issue. Yamaha needs to investigate the claim and deal with it accordingly. The issue I have with Deegan is, he's acting guilty. He's acting like he's lying, and he knows it. The Brennan kid isn't acting guilty. Deegan has made himself in his career off of being a rebel in the industry. His whole marketable brand was formed out of sticking it to "the man", "buck the system". He couldn't get it done consistently in the AMA racing scene so he went the FMX route, created this whole bad boy image, metal mullisha shtick , chip on his shoulder - Anti-AMA branding. And to that, I say good for him. Imagine if the genuine and authentic Brian Deegan of old would have responded to this Claim situation with a "fuck yea, bro - good for you dude - Touche for knowing the rules and making it happen". Then Brian could taken pictures with the kid and blown the whole thing up on social media as something super cool in the sport. Think about the positive press that would have come from that. But instead he's acting like a guilty of something, entitled little "let them eat cake" bitch. He's now "the man" that he has built his brand off of trying to stick it to for all these years. He's lost his roots and has no integrity.

Ask yourself the question, how would have the 2002 Brian Deegan handled this situation as a bystander rider 20 years ago? Who would he have aligned with?

I've always rooted for Brian Deegan because I like to root for the underdog - the rebel, the chip on his shoulder guy that made something for himself in a non-traditional way from nothing to making it big. Now, fuck that. He's everything he used to fight against. And that sad part is, Deegan doesn't even realize it.
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Sore Loser
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8/13/2022 2:27pm
There are only two ways we the uninvolved ever see the kid justified. One, and it'll never happen, the principle of the dealership confirms the story...
There are only two ways we the uninvolved ever see the kid justified. One, and it'll never happen, the principle of the dealership confirms the story. He's on lockdown already. Two, very unlikely as well, it goes to court and phone records are made public. The kid's reputation was tarnished as soon as he put the wheels in motion. He would have fared better to have stayed in the game than pull stakes.
Heck, I might not ever start this thread if the kid had explained how he came to the conclusion that Yamaha got involved. And if in fact he detailed that it was his sponsor that pressured him into dropping the claim and why. He doesnt. It's conspicuously left out of the story.

Correct me if Im wrong but he made it pretty clear that it was Matt Walker that was texting his sponsor. It's at 17:25 of the video. Brennan never even says he got a call from his sponsor. He just segways into what he "thinks" happened between all the major parties involved.

The kid could not have been more articulate and detailed up until that point, and then the details get soft. So I was left wondering why the shift.
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Dave v3.0
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8/13/2022 2:27pm
I believe 2 things.

1. There's always 3 sides to every story. Unfortunately, we can only draw conclusions based on the information readily available.

2. The AMA was, is, and always will be a weak sanctioning body unless Harley Davidson is threatened somehow. It's been like this since the 60's and shows no signs of improving. Ask Mickey Boone, John Roeder, and Marty Tripes. Or those involved in Supercross Gasgate. Or no team tactics...but "let Brock bye". Their rulebooks have always been a joke.The AMA would still be happier if motocross had never crossed the pond and they could have continued doing poker runs and collecting dues "while protecting your rights to ride"Grinning
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Post a reply to: 13+ pages and yet nobody has asked this simple question...

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