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But I'll also say this again for the 10th time, the rule is a good rule. It should be enforced more often. The AMA never in a million years should've let a MX Sports employee get involved. And Im going to be totally floored if Brian did indeed talk to this kid on his own because he knows that was out of line - he'd literally burn the place down if anyone EVER tried to corner his kid, as would any decent father.
But there are some other versions of the story going around that have totally been lost in the rush to get the pitchforks out. One being the timing of the events. What if we find out that Cotter was the only one grilling Brennan? What if we find out that Cotter's intentions were to make sure that it wasnt Star that was intimidating Brennan into dropping the claim? Doesnt that change the entire look of all this? Imagine you're Tim Cotter and your name is getting dragged thru the mud and all you were doing was looking out for the rulebook and the kid making the justified claim?
I think those are fair questions to be asking. And I think a lot of dust is yet to be settled on this before I want to condemn anyone involved.
Do I think the "mobs" opinion of what is fucked up in all this is flawed? No. I actually agree with what just about everyone has said in the other thread. Im in 110% agreement with you about the flaws in grass roots racing. Im just wondering why everyone is so quick to assume one side of a bitter rivalry is gospel?
So again, how did Brennan know Yamaha Corp got involved? Did they actually get involved? So far if those were easily answered questions, someone would've surely done so already.
Within his rights to do so? Yes.
Was Yamaha stupid for sending a factory motor to a race where it could be claimed? Absolutely.
But if the kid is lying about his motives, how he got the money, and why he dropped the claim... this whole mess gets a lot more convoluted real quick.
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It's meant to prevent factory bikes into amateur racing. Even in the mod class. Raising kids is expensive enough as it is.
The bigger question to ask on that tangent is why the fuck are FACTORY TEAMS/RIDERS allowed in the B class of an amateur event? Why, because pros are allowed in the A class, which should be reserved for amateur experts IMO. It's the AMATEUR nationals yet they have pros racing. I'll never understand that.
Pro's belong in pro or pro-am classes. And A riders should have their own place to race at Lorrettas IMO. Which is where Haiden belongs. Would that prevent him from having a factory bike and skirting the spirit of the rules? No, not at all. But it would cool some of the animosity that his fellow competitors feel towards him. Many of them think it's bullshit he's allowed to race B with them. There's nothing about Haiden that is B class. He's one of the fastest HUMANS on the planet. In fact, it's debatable whether he (and most of his peers) are even amateurs considering the sponsorship deals they have.
Would a claim be allowed in a true amateur A class? Yes. Would it happen like this? I think it's far less likely.
And: It. Does. Not. Matter. What. His. Motive. Was.
No one cares. Claim should have gone through.
We've heard Brennan's. That's it.
I guess you could say we heard MX Sports/DC's version but I could care less what they are going to say being that their journalistic credibility has long been compromised. And more importantly, they werent exactly directly involved in some of the key moments in all this.
I believe you may be conflating taboo in the manner of taking something away from a grass roots racer. Someone that Worked Hard to get to Loretta's or any race and this is their only bike. Paying for a factory bike from a factory team. That really isn't doing anything bad.
As far as the other stories, I haven't heard them and there are three sides to every story. In another thread I asked you, can you take the other side and tell us why is it right for the Deegan Family and MX Sports to get involved.
Both literally have no reason to be involved from the perspective: The Deegans are contracted to ride Yamaha/Star Yamaha Team bikes.They don't own them or lose anything. MX Sports is a Promoter and has a contract to allow the AMA be the rule maker. The AMA is simply doing what they were brought in to do.
This is why there are questions. This is the optics look skewed.
Just delete this thread now.
The same reason it is taboo is why the rule exists. That is why it is a good rule. It's to prevent competitors from pouring so much into the bike that the sport is a spending war. I personally think the sport as a whole needs to get over it and claiming should be more common. It would be good for amateur racing. I also think professionals do not belong at the amateur races but that's another topic.
I'll answer your other question: The Deegan family and MX Sports have ZERO right to get involved with a claim. NONE. ZILCH. NADA. ABSOLUTELY FUCKING WRONG.
My question is did the Deegan's actually get involved? Why are we so quick to believe a 17 year old? Im giving Brian the benefit of the doubt because I know him to be a good man. If he talked to the kid directly, even if under the supervision of MX Sports, then my opinion of Brian will change very quickly.
My other question is what actually was Tim Cotter doing? He had NO BUSINESS getting involved. This is not the promoter's wheelhouse. It's the sanctioning body's. The AMA should've never let him in the room or got him involved. Full stop - ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. ..... if true. It also changes my opinion if I find out this version to be true, that Tim Cotter stepped in to do what the AMA wouldnt, which is make sure the kid wasnt being pressured to drop the claim by Star, Deegan, Yamaha or anyone else. If Tim was looking out for the rules and the kid - then I actually commend him for stepping up when everyone else was letting the kid get railroaded. The fact is, there are two versions of the timetable and events that are floating around and I do not know which one is true.
1. You dont want all sides/versions of the story
2. You want any dissent to be censored
You really think you sound like the rational party here?
Nobody is forcing you to click this thread. Go to the other one if critical thinking aint for you.
It’s irrelevant who is telling the truth.
The rules are the rules except when someone doesn’t like the rules…
I understand you are someone that need all facts written down and conform to make conclusion. Most of us don't when it's this clear.
You are grabbing for straws that won't change the outcome - huge cluster fuck and shitshow from Yamaha, Deegans and MX-Sports.
So instead of starting a thread questioning something that's is completely irrelevant for the focus of this happening, start a thread about questioning Yamaha and their partners behavior and save us all some time.
This thread looks like something the Deegans would start.
What is taboo or not is not my call. Im just telling you what the overall culture of this sport is. Claiming should happen way more often than it does but because of the culture of the sport, many refrain from doing so.
I personally think it's a good rule. I personally do not think it should be taboo too claim a bike. But I do not make the cultural rules. I think maybe you and others think Im advocating for it to be taboo. Im not. In fact, Im one of those racers that would probably be doing it all the time just to keep my competitors honest. Im also one of those racers that could be easily talked out of it by a sponsor.
There's more nuance to this whole mess than people are willing to admit.
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I follow you from there. Unknown if the Deegans or MX Sports did get involved. We do have to take his word on it until someone says differently. Still the the bike has not been given over, that's suspect.
Thanks.
And again, if Yamaha never got involved, that's relevant.
If Deegan never got involved, that's relevant.
If Brennan is lying about any part of his story, that's relevant.
All I've asked is how everyone came so quickly to believe every detail that 17 year old with an axe to grind has to tell. And so far, nobody has been able to actually answer that question. In fact, your response is to demand I stop asking the question. If that isnt suspect than I dont know what is. Simply telling me to shut up is not a very solid argument.
Forget what the kid ever said. It does not matter. You don't seem to understand that, you are looking to highlight things that is in no way relevant for who is in the wrong.
So again, no, we don't need to hear another official word or interview from anyone, ever again, to understand want went on there.
I think that is what I find cringe. Is that there were various accounts of the whole drama, and very quickly the mob decided which one they were going with. And when Brennan's version comes out and it aligns with what people had already deemed to be fact, that is textbook confirmation bias.
And now people are bent because they do not want to have to walk it back when they obviously jumped to conclusions. I think when you've been as successful as the Deegans have been, you're going to have a lot of people just waiting for the first chance to shit all over you. It's pretty much a staple of American culture. This was that moment for a lot of people to dump on them. In the same vein of thought, the AMA, MX Sports, and DC to some degree have built up their own army of haters (justified in many cases) so when they potentially shit the bed again in such a high profile way, anyone with any semblance of moral fiber uses this moment to get riled up. This is a chance for years/decades worth of frustration to be dumped out.
Im not even crucifying the mob. Americans are pretty fed up with corruption right now. It's just the social climate.
You want proof that lying is relevant to a person's credibility???
Here's the issue I have outside of the Yamaha issue - which is a BIG issue. Yamaha needs to investigate the claim and deal with it accordingly. The issue I have with Deegan is, he's acting guilty. He's acting like he's lying, and he knows it. The Brennan kid isn't acting guilty. Deegan has made himself in his career off of being a rebel in the industry. His whole marketable brand was formed out of sticking it to "the man", "buck the system". He couldn't get it done consistently in the AMA racing scene so he went the FMX route, created this whole bad boy image, metal mullisha shtick , chip on his shoulder - Anti-AMA branding. And to that, I say good for him. Imagine if the genuine and authentic Brian Deegan of old would have responded to this Claim situation with a "fuck yea, bro - good for you dude - Touche for knowing the rules and making it happen". Then Brian could taken pictures with the kid and blown the whole thing up on social media as something super cool in the sport. Think about the positive press that would have come from that. But instead he's acting like a guilty of something, entitled little "let them eat cake" bitch. He's now "the man" that he has built his brand off of trying to stick it to for all these years. He's lost his roots and has no integrity.
Ask yourself the question, how would have the 2002 Brian Deegan handled this situation as a bystander rider 20 years ago? Who would he have aligned with?
I've always rooted for Brian Deegan because I like to root for the underdog - the rebel, the chip on his shoulder guy that made something for himself in a non-traditional way from nothing to making it big. Now, fuck that. He's everything he used to fight against. And that sad part is, Deegan doesn't even realize it.
Correct me if Im wrong but he made it pretty clear that it was Matt Walker that was texting his sponsor. It's at 17:25 of the video. Brennan never even says he got a call from his sponsor. He just segways into what he "thinks" happened between all the major parties involved.
The kid could not have been more articulate and detailed up until that point, and then the details get soft. So I was left wondering why the shift.
1. There's always 3 sides to every story. Unfortunately, we can only draw conclusions based on the information readily available.
2. The AMA was, is, and always will be a weak sanctioning body unless Harley Davidson is threatened somehow. It's been like this since the 60's and shows no signs of improving. Ask Mickey Boone, John Roeder, and Marty Tripes. Or those involved in Supercross Gasgate. Or no team tactics...but "let Brock bye". Their rulebooks have always been a joke.The AMA would still be happier if motocross had never crossed the pond and they could have continued doing poker runs and collecting dues "while protecting your rights to ride"
Post a reply to: 13+ pages and yet nobody has asked this simple question...