13+ pages and yet nobody has asked this simple question...

HD1200
Posts
819
Joined
5/11/2008
Location
Greenville, GA US
8/14/2022 9:07am
It doesn't matter if his engine builder fronted the cash. It could have very well been all of Derek's cash, or a portion of it i.e...
It doesn't matter if his engine builder fronted the cash. It could have very well been all of Derek's cash, or a portion of it i.e. "let's split it 50/50".

But both the source of the cash and his motivation for doing it are completely irrelevant. The rule states that if you hand over the cash to the AMA to claim the bike then the bike is yours.
Sore Loser wrote:
It's relevant because if the kid is lying about the source of the cash, his credibility is shot.
Dude it's none of yours or our business where the cash came from, totally irrelevant. You're a sore loser that's for sure.
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2
Sore Loser
Posts
180
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL US
8/14/2022 9:12am
HD1200 wrote:
Dude it's none of yours or our business where the cash came from, totally irrelevant. You're a sore loser that's for sure.
I've never stated that it was relevant where the money came from. How many times are you guys going to try to confuse this?

I've said it's relevant if he's lying about it. Lying about any detail really.
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ns503
Posts
3560
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Location
NS Toolies CA
8/14/2022 9:17am
TbonesPop wrote:
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose. If the claiming...
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose.

If the claiming rule is "frowned upon", what good is the rule? Isn't that how we got here in the first place?

Does anyone believe that this "shot across the bow" from the rider trying to claim the bike will not have an impact on how certain teams (Star, PC, etc.) prep their bikes going forward for amateur events in effect leveling the playing field (which was the purpose of the rule in the first place)?

This is how it was supposed to work.

How its not supposed to work is the industry high rollers coming in and steam rolling a 17 year old kid and thus stopping the process.
Sore Loser wrote:
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess. Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even...
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess.

Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even if it was totally legal within the spirit of the rules. Thus why claiming is taboo.

We all love the rules when they're enforced on someone else. That's not consistent, it doesnt make sense, it makes many hypocrites but such is life in the mini scene.

Sounds like you don't think there should be a claiming rule then?
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1
Sore Loser
Posts
180
Joined
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL US
8/14/2022 9:30am
mimafia wrote:
One thing I can't figure out is after all that went down Brennen said someone asked him do you want to move forward with the claim...
One thing I can't figure out is after all that went down Brennen said someone asked him do you want to move forward with the claim or not and he rescinded the claim. Why, just because he felt pressured? Felt bad? He knew what the claiming rules were and knew he wasn't doing anything wrong. All that bs would have made me want to follow through with it even more.

Also, who is ultimately responsible for the claiming rule not being followed properly? Deegan or an AMA official? Is Star Yamaha legally the owner of the bike or is Brian Deegan? Looking at the rules below there should be some punishment dished out.

3. Cash, certified check or bank draft must accompany a
claim. The owner of the claimed motorcycle must
immediately deliver it intact, along with a clear title or bill of
sale

5. If a rider whose motorcycle is claimed refuses to comply,
they must forfeit the trophy, is disqualified from the meet
and will be suspended for one year
Sore Loser wrote:
Nobody refused to comply. The claim was going thru as it should have. The bike was in proper custody. The rule was being followed properly and...
Nobody refused to comply. The claim was going thru as it should have. The bike was in proper custody. The rule was being followed properly and the ONLY reason the kid doesnt have the bike (plus a spare motor) is because he dropped the claim.

The question really is, who is responsible for coercing him to drop the claim.

His dad really hung him out to dry during all this imo.
Hung out to dry by Dad?
Yeah. I think as the situation escalated, I think it's time for dad to step in and just make sure everything is on the up & up.

I cannot remember if in the interview Brennan said if his dad was with him for the meeting with Yamaha Donnie and Walker. But dad should have been there. In fact, if Im the dad in that situation, I dont even let my kid go to that meeting at all. Im shadowing him all day once the claim was made.

I step in and ask Walker (and more importantly Yamaha) what are you doing? Why do you need to speak to my kid about this? Then again, that was the kid's trainer, I assume they had a close relationship. The dad trusts Walker.

Between Haiden being allowed to roam freely and Brennan without anyone running support, the whole deal appears to be far more casual than the fallout would have us to believe.
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The Shop

Sore Loser
Posts
180
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL US
8/14/2022 9:31am
TbonesPop wrote:
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose. If the claiming...
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose.

If the claiming rule is "frowned upon", what good is the rule? Isn't that how we got here in the first place?

Does anyone believe that this "shot across the bow" from the rider trying to claim the bike will not have an impact on how certain teams (Star, PC, etc.) prep their bikes going forward for amateur events in effect leveling the playing field (which was the purpose of the rule in the first place)?

This is how it was supposed to work.

How its not supposed to work is the industry high rollers coming in and steam rolling a 17 year old kid and thus stopping the process.
Sore Loser wrote:
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess. Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even...
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess.

Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even if it was totally legal within the spirit of the rules. Thus why claiming is taboo.

We all love the rules when they're enforced on someone else. That's not consistent, it doesnt make sense, it makes many hypocrites but such is life in the mini scene.

ns503 wrote:
Sounds like you don't think there should be a claiming rule then?
Couldnt be further from the truth. I think it is a great rule. An ingenious method to prevent works motors that I think would be far more effective than tear down inspections ever could in practicality.

Unfortunately the claiming rule isnt very practical due to the culture within the sport.
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TbonesPop
Posts
2939
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Location
Gilbert, AZ US
8/14/2022 9:35am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2022 9:38am
TbonesPop wrote:
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose. If the claiming...
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose.

If the claiming rule is "frowned upon", what good is the rule? Isn't that how we got here in the first place?

Does anyone believe that this "shot across the bow" from the rider trying to claim the bike will not have an impact on how certain teams (Star, PC, etc.) prep their bikes going forward for amateur events in effect leveling the playing field (which was the purpose of the rule in the first place)?

This is how it was supposed to work.

How its not supposed to work is the industry high rollers coming in and steam rolling a 17 year old kid and thus stopping the process.
Sore Loser wrote:
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess. Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even...
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess.

Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even if it was totally legal within the spirit of the rules. Thus why claiming is taboo.

We all love the rules when they're enforced on someone else. That's not consistent, it doesnt make sense, it makes many hypocrites but such is life in the mini scene.

With all due respect, this rule has been rarely exercised because most teams don't have essentially unlimited budgets to build a bike for an amateur race like this. No one is going to go claim a $20K-$25K racing bike for $17.5K. It's just not worth it. But when someone like Star builds a +$50K bike for an amateur race where another rider could claim the bike for $17.5K, then shame on them. Who wouldn't want that bike? Mitch Payton knows the rules and thus he doesn't take super high end modified bikes that they are capable of building to these types of events just for that reason. He's said so, point blank.

I guarantee that Star will change how they prep a bike for these races going forward as will every team with essentially an unlimited budget. Good. It makes for better racing.

Other than Brennan being able to keep the bike due to the interference or coercion, this is the rule working exactly as it was supposed to work.

That's the crux of this. Why was the claim pulled? What did a Yamaha rep (Luce?), Walker, and to some effect the AMA do to coerce the claim to be dropped? With respect to the AMA, I think they are less culpable than originally perceived in all of this as I think the whole situation took them by surprise and they were being lobbied by Star and the Deegans obviously.

It is an odd detail that is both confirmed by DC's column as well as Brennan's video interview that Cotter went back to Brennan when he was pulling the claim that Cotter specifically made the statement that he wasn't trying to coerce Brennan on the claim. Why would he have to do that?

LoudLove
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Location
US
8/14/2022 9:37am
HD1200 wrote:
Dude it's none of yours or our business where the cash came from, totally irrelevant. You're a sore loser that's for sure.
Sore Loser wrote:
I've never stated that it was relevant where the money came from. How many times are you guys going to try to confuse this? I've said...
I've never stated that it was relevant where the money came from. How many times are you guys going to try to confuse this?

I've said it's relevant if he's lying about it. Lying about any detail really.
Does Brennan specially state that every dollar earned was derived solely and directly from wrenching only? He does not offer any details (i.e. dad matched dollar for dollar). Most folks won’t have an issue with that, as it’s largely irrelevant, unless someone is trying to dismantle his credibility.
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1
swordfish
Posts
1386
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Location
CA
8/14/2022 9:38am
mimafia wrote:
One thing I can't figure out is after all that went down Brennen said someone asked him do you want to move forward with the claim...
One thing I can't figure out is after all that went down Brennen said someone asked him do you want to move forward with the claim or not and he rescinded the claim. Why, just because he felt pressured? Felt bad? He knew what the claiming rules were and knew he wasn't doing anything wrong. All that bs would have made me want to follow through with it even more.

Also, who is ultimately responsible for the claiming rule not being followed properly? Deegan or an AMA official? Is Star Yamaha legally the owner of the bike or is Brian Deegan? Looking at the rules below there should be some punishment dished out.

3. Cash, certified check or bank draft must accompany a
claim. The owner of the claimed motorcycle must
immediately deliver it intact, along with a clear title or bill of
sale

5. If a rider whose motorcycle is claimed refuses to comply,
they must forfeit the trophy, is disqualified from the meet
and will be suspended for one year
Sore Loser wrote:
Nobody refused to comply. The claim was going thru as it should have. The bike was in proper custody. The rule was being followed properly and...
Nobody refused to comply. The claim was going thru as it should have. The bike was in proper custody. The rule was being followed properly and the ONLY reason the kid doesnt have the bike (plus a spare motor) is because he dropped the claim.

The question really is, who is responsible for coercing him to drop the claim.

His dad really hung him out to dry during all this imo.
Craig Schofield has never hung his son out to dry, has been an amazing father, made huge sacrifices to help his son chase his dreams and ambitions. He’s also been a great role model by allowing his son to make his own decisions and accept responsibility for them. Most kids could only dream of having a positive influence like him in their life.
You sound like a fucking idiot here talking shit. If you actually had an ounce of credibility on this board, it’s safe to say that’s gone.
1
Sore Loser
Posts
180
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL US
8/14/2022 9:47am
TbonesPop wrote:
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose. If the claiming...
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose.

If the claiming rule is "frowned upon", what good is the rule? Isn't that how we got here in the first place?

Does anyone believe that this "shot across the bow" from the rider trying to claim the bike will not have an impact on how certain teams (Star, PC, etc.) prep their bikes going forward for amateur events in effect leveling the playing field (which was the purpose of the rule in the first place)?

This is how it was supposed to work.

How its not supposed to work is the industry high rollers coming in and steam rolling a 17 year old kid and thus stopping the process.
Sore Loser wrote:
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess. Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even...
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess.

Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even if it was totally legal within the spirit of the rules. Thus why claiming is taboo.

We all love the rules when they're enforced on someone else. That's not consistent, it doesnt make sense, it makes many hypocrites but such is life in the mini scene.

TbonesPop wrote:
With all due respect, this rule has been rarely exercised because most teams don't have essentially unlimited budgets to build a bike for an amateur race...
With all due respect, this rule has been rarely exercised because most teams don't have essentially unlimited budgets to build a bike for an amateur race like this. No one is going to go claim a $20K-$25K racing bike for $17.5K. It's just not worth it. But when someone like Star builds a +$50K bike for an amateur race where another rider could claim the bike for $17.5K, then shame on them. Who wouldn't want that bike? Mitch Payton knows the rules and thus he doesn't take super high end modified bikes that they are capable of building to these types of events just for that reason. He's said so, point blank.

I guarantee that Star will change how they prep a bike for these races going forward as will every team with essentially an unlimited budget. Good. It makes for better racing.

Other than Brennan being able to keep the bike due to the interference or coercion, this is the rule working exactly as it was supposed to work.

That's the crux of this. Why was the claim pulled? What did a Yamaha rep (Luce?), Walker, and to some effect the AMA do to coerce the claim to be dropped? With respect to the AMA, I think they are less culpable than originally perceived in all of this as I think the whole situation took them by surprise and they were being lobbied by Star and the Deegans obviously.

It is an odd detail that is both confirmed by DC's column as well as Brennan's video interview that Cotter went back to Brennan when he was pulling the claim that Cotter specifically made the statement that he wasn't trying to coerce Brennan on the claim. Why would he have to do that?

I dont think the AMA has any defense in all of this. Their sole function is to be the "bad guy" during all this and keep the sharks at bay. No amount of pressure from Star or the Deegans is an excuse for the AMA not handling their core duties.

That said, it sounds like it was being handled properly as far as the established protocol was. Cotter was brought in to manage the custody. Do I think that needs to be changed in the future? Absofuckinglutely. The promoter has no business in the matter.

As time has passed and we've flushed this all out, Cotter looks like less of the POS he was labeled. Deegan didnt break any rule either.

As for comparing Star to PC or any other big budget team, let me just say this, their job is to push the envelope. And they ALL DO IT. Whether they get caught or not is another matter. We can accuse Star of mishandling how they put the fire out, but I wont pretend they were doing something other teams do not do with regards to pushing the envelope.
13
ctbale
Posts
956
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Location
Gustavus, AK US
8/14/2022 10:36am
Excellent thread sore loser. I respect the way your examining the facts in this situation.. its very interesting.


And its nice to see ML put in his updates too. Thanks ML512

^^^^^ I should have made two separate posts, gunna confuse the upvoters and downvoters! Smile
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8/14/2022 11:42am
Sore Loser wrote:
Not once have I claimed Brennan is lying. I've asked how do we know his story is factual. What evidence has he provided? Why is his...
Not once have I claimed Brennan is lying.

I've asked how do we know his story is factual. What evidence has he provided? Why is his word the final say on this matter?

I've also NEVER once said Yamaha was "unfairly targeted". I've asked for clarification on how he knew Yamaha Corp got involved with his sponsor. It's the one part of his interview where things stop getting clearly defined and explained. In fact, the only part that is clear is that Brennan claims that Matt Walker is on the phone texting the dealership. How does Brennan know this?

Furthermore, Brennan claims that a Yamaha Corporate employee essentially admits to him point blank with multiple witnesses that they're running a factory motor. That is incredibly hard to believe any Yamaha executive is that dumb. Yet somehow that passes the smell test to all of you guys as fact?

It raises concern. That's all I have said. I think that is hard for some to accept because they've committed so hard to one side of this debate. Whereas if it came out that Yamaha Corp was indeed got involved and Deegan crossed some boundaries and the AMA shit the bed, do you think I'd have egg on my face? Nope. I wouldnt. Because I havent made any grand judgements yet. Any version of the truth could come out and I'd be safe at this moment. Can you say the same?
SL - "If I had to guess, based on what I know as of now, I bet his story is about 75% true."
SL a few posts later - "Not once have I claimed Brennan is lying"

Can you at least admit that you imply Brennan was 25% lying when you say his story is about 75% true?
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resetjet
Posts
2178
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Location
Tampa, FL US
8/14/2022 11:50am
Has anyone given thought to what would have happened if the deal went through? My guess is that he was enlightened to those realities. That bike would have become kryptonite for him. It will be for the next guy too.
1
8/14/2022 12:24pm
mimafia wrote:
One thing I can't figure out is after all that went down Brennen said someone asked him do you want to move forward with the claim...
One thing I can't figure out is after all that went down Brennen said someone asked him do you want to move forward with the claim or not and he rescinded the claim. Why, just because he felt pressured? Felt bad? He knew what the claiming rules were and knew he wasn't doing anything wrong. All that bs would have made me want to follow through with it even more.

Also, who is ultimately responsible for the claiming rule not being followed properly? Deegan or an AMA official? Is Star Yamaha legally the owner of the bike or is Brian Deegan? Looking at the rules below there should be some punishment dished out.

3. Cash, certified check or bank draft must accompany a
claim. The owner of the claimed motorcycle must
immediately deliver it intact, along with a clear title or bill of
sale

5. If a rider whose motorcycle is claimed refuses to comply,
they must forfeit the trophy, is disqualified from the meet
and will be suspended for one year
Sore Loser wrote:
Nobody refused to comply. The claim was going thru as it should have. The bike was in proper custody. The rule was being followed properly and...
Nobody refused to comply. The claim was going thru as it should have. The bike was in proper custody. The rule was being followed properly and the ONLY reason the kid doesnt have the bike (plus a spare motor) is because he dropped the claim.

The question really is, who is responsible for coercing him to drop the claim.

His dad really hung him out to dry during all this imo.
swordfish wrote:
Craig Schofield has never hung his son out to dry, has been an amazing father, made huge sacrifices to help his son chase his dreams and...
Craig Schofield has never hung his son out to dry, has been an amazing father, made huge sacrifices to help his son chase his dreams and ambitions. He’s also been a great role model by allowing his son to make his own decisions and accept responsibility for them. Most kids could only dream of having a positive influence like him in their life.
You sound like a fucking idiot here talking shit. If you actually had an ounce of credibility on this board, it’s safe to say that’s gone.
Looking at his son's interview, I would say he did an excellent job.
1
Sore Loser
Posts
180
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL US
8/14/2022 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 8/14/2022 12:27pm
resetjet wrote:
Has anyone given thought to what would have happened if the deal went through? My guess is that he was enlightened to those realities. That bike...
Has anyone given thought to what would have happened if the deal went through? My guess is that he was enlightened to those realities. That bike would have become kryptonite for him. It will be for the next guy too.
No. They have not. The possibility that Brennan's dad wanted Brennan to handle it on his own and that his sponsor stepped in for their own reasons never once was considered by the mob in all of this. The pitchforks were already out, torches lit, and now any critical thinking is met with hostility because it means a whole lot of people gotta walk things back. And, the fact that the less dramatic version of the events that happened is a lot more boring.
8
hellion
Posts
983
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12/19/2009
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Westfield, MA US
8/14/2022 1:31pm
Sometimes I come here and just get stupider
6
DKmxFAN
Posts
341
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1/16/2017
Location
Big Lake, MN US
8/14/2022 4:10pm
Sore Loser wrote:
Since the other thread is basically a "shit all over Yamaha and the Deegans" love fest, I figured a new thread might be warranted for the...
Since the other thread is basically a "shit all over Yamaha and the Deegans" love fest, I figured a new thread might be warranted for the 2 or 3 of us that arent looking for an excuse to be pissed off or shit on the Deegans. Maybe a pause for some critical thinking and basic questions before drawing any conclusions.

How do we know Brennan is telling the truth?


I'll give him this, he's articulate, and his way of telling his account of what went down comes across as extremely credible. It's how I'd expect someone to tell the truth IF they were telling the truth.

But we havent heard the other side's version of events. And most importantly, Brennan never says how he knew Yamaha Corp was pressuring his sponsor. He clearly states in the interview at around the 17:30 mark what he assumes was the food chain of events. But he never specifically says how he knows this. And the interviewer (Tyler) never asks for clarification.

That to me is a significant moment in the interview. Because if the kid is just ASSUMING his dealership was being pressured, that is a big red flag and it calls into question the rest of his account of the events.

Another thing I find odd, he plays the innocent victim here very well. Never mentions for a moment that he and Haiden have personal beef with each other. He "just wanted to see what it was like to ride a factory bike". Really? That's ALL there is to this story? Now dont get me wrong, Brennan does not have to justify the why. The claim of the bike was within the rules - and the rule is a good one. The bottom line, dont want your unobtanium bike claimed, DONT BRING ONE TO AN AMATEUR RACE. But before I wholesale believe EVERY detail of your story, I want to know all the details. And a significant one is that these two groups have history. This was more than just "wanting to see what a factory bike felt like". Is that relevant to the claiming rule? No, not at all. But it is relevant to the credibility of this Brennan kid. So before I jump on his bandwagon and take everything as gospel, I pause and wonder why certain details are being left out.

If the Deegans are the new Alessis, lets not forget that the Alessis drama didnt exist in a vacuum. He had his rivals and those rivals werent saints either. Other equally overzealous mini dads. And plenty of ankle biting that fueled all the bullshit that went on between all parties involved.

I think it's only fair these questions are asked. Because when I talk to people "in the know" they're telling a very different version of all of this. For example:

- The engine builder fronted the cash for the claim
- Tim Cotter only interviewed Brennan AFTER the claim was rescinded and did so to make sure he wasnt being pressured by Yamaha
- I've heard some say that Brian Deegan never actually cornered the kid

Are any of those statements factual? Of course not. All Im saying is that if you can get past the mob mentality, there's actually another version of the story floating around that severely contradicts what a 17 year old kid is claiming.

I for one think that if indeed that kid was talked to privately by Cotter, Deegan, or anyone NOT the AMA, a SERIOUS line was crossed because again, he's a kid. But to be consistent, I also know that KIDS LIE all the time. So if you're not an adult, you dont get the benefit of the doubt like an adult either.

I believe every single word he said
1
HD1200
Posts
819
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Location
Greenville, GA US
8/14/2022 5:09pm
HD1200 wrote:
Dude it's none of yours or our business where the cash came from, totally irrelevant. You're a sore loser that's for sure.
Sore Loser wrote:
I've never stated that it was relevant where the money came from. How many times are you guys going to try to confuse this? I've said...
I've never stated that it was relevant where the money came from. How many times are you guys going to try to confuse this?

I've said it's relevant if he's lying about it. Lying about any detail really.
It's still not relevant, where the funds came from are completely irrelevant.
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Sore Loser
Posts
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West Palm Beach, FL US
8/14/2022 6:06pm Edited Date/Time 8/14/2022 6:07pm
HD1200 wrote:
It's still not relevant, where the funds came from are completely irrelevant.
Lying is always relevant.
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8/14/2022 6:36pm
Sore Loser wrote:
You didnt answer my question nor does the fact that he doesnt have the bike give his story absolute credibility. Yes he was within his rights...
You didnt answer my question nor does the fact that he doesnt have the bike give his story absolute credibility.

Yes he was within his rights to claim the bike.
Yes he should have been allowed to claim it without any issue.

But we dont know why he dropped the claim. Only his version of why. Which directly contradicts other people's accounts of the events.

Some have said this was a stunt that his engine builder put him up too. And yes his main sponsor (the dealership) talked him out of it.

Does that mean Yamaha got involved? No. It could just means that the dealership gave the kid some sage advice and said knock it off, you dont need this sort of drama. But it also means this kid is lying about a LOT. Yet somehow y'all are taking it all as absolute fact.

Does it look good that Brian Deegan took down his video explaining some of his version? Not a good look at all for his credibility either. Which is why Im sitting here reserving judgement.

Im not saying I know what went down. Im withholding judgement until a few things are cleared up.

If you've already made up your mind based on the version of a 17 year old kid, without hearing the other side, this thread aint for you.
“Knock it off you don’t need this sort of drama”

Why should there be any drama? If there is drama, who started said drama? Answer. Brian Deegan when he decided to march his general ass in there to interrogate a minor. When he doesn’t even own the bike. If anyone needs to knock it off it’s BD. He needs to come down off his high horse.
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Pit Row

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Sore Loser
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180
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL US
8/14/2022 6:39pm
“Knock it off you don’t need this sort of drama” Why should there be any drama? If there is drama, who started said drama? Answer. Brian...
“Knock it off you don’t need this sort of drama”

Why should there be any drama? If there is drama, who started said drama? Answer. Brian Deegan when he decided to march his general ass in there to interrogate a minor. When he doesn’t even own the bike. If anyone needs to knock it off it’s BD. He needs to come down off his high horse.
There shouldn’t be any drama. But a bike claim stirs up drama whether it should or shouldnt. The fact is, it does. I dont make the rules on that.
8
toroP
Posts
3680
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4/6/2009
Location
Cincinnati, OH US
8/14/2022 7:17pm
Sore Loser wrote:
If you read all 50+ of my posts, you need a new hobby.
toroP wrote:
You’ve typed a lot on this topic. Why? Who are you, what is your stake in this?
Sore Loser wrote:
I’ve typed a lot because a lot of people have responded to me. We’re having a conversation. That’s generally how a back-n-forth goes. I dont have...
I’ve typed a lot because a lot of people have responded to me. We’re having a conversation. That’s generally how a back-n-forth goes.

I dont have a stake in any of this. I just find it interesting. And if Im being honest, me and a lot of other race dad’s I’ve spoken to privately were really interested in what lines Deegan crossed. Dad’s judge each other - it’s normal. So I started this account to see if vital had any info YouTube didnt.

A lot of people are being dragged thru the mud on this due to the overzealous nature of everyone who has years of pent of frustration towards MX Sports, the AMA, DC, the Deegans, and everyone involved. If you cannot understand why that is hard to watch from the perspective that I have (which is that Im reserving judgement until I know more details) then I dont know what to tell you.
But you could be lying, right? Or should we assume you’re telling the truth?
5
Sore Loser
Posts
180
Joined
8/13/2022
Location
West Palm Beach, FL US
8/14/2022 8:16pm Edited Date/Time 8/14/2022 8:17pm
toroP wrote:
You’ve typed a lot on this topic. Why? Who are you, what is your stake in this?
Sore Loser wrote:
I’ve typed a lot because a lot of people have responded to me. We’re having a conversation. That’s generally how a back-n-forth goes. I dont have...
I’ve typed a lot because a lot of people have responded to me. We’re having a conversation. That’s generally how a back-n-forth goes.

I dont have a stake in any of this. I just find it interesting. And if Im being honest, me and a lot of other race dad’s I’ve spoken to privately were really interested in what lines Deegan crossed. Dad’s judge each other - it’s normal. So I started this account to see if vital had any info YouTube didnt.

A lot of people are being dragged thru the mud on this due to the overzealous nature of everyone who has years of pent of frustration towards MX Sports, the AMA, DC, the Deegans, and everyone involved. If you cannot understand why that is hard to watch from the perspective that I have (which is that Im reserving judgement until I know more details) then I dont know what to tell you.
toroP wrote:
But you could be lying, right? Or should we assume you’re telling the truth?
Doesnt really matter either way what you assume about me. Im not on trial.

For a few of us here, we’re interested in not rushing to judgement. For most others, my inquisitive nature is pissing them off to no end.

Simple solution? Ignore me if you think Im a liar or whatever. I’ll do fine just talking to the 4 or 5 others with a similar outlook on this debacle.
12
Gungadin
Posts
234
Joined
7/8/2022
Location
Sarasota, FL US
8/15/2022 1:09am
I'm asking where does all the Star cartel money come from?
1
Gungadin
Posts
234
Joined
7/8/2022
Location
Sarasota, FL US
8/15/2022 1:11am Edited Date/Time 8/15/2022 1:20am
Sore Loser = a hired damage control, and professional obfuscator, PR shill.
6
1
blackdiamond
Posts
1293
Joined
11/5/2015
Location
Dallas, TX US
8/15/2022 1:13am
toroP wrote:
You’ve typed a lot on this topic. Why? Who are you, what is your stake in this?
Sore Loser wrote:
I’ve typed a lot because a lot of people have responded to me. We’re having a conversation. That’s generally how a back-n-forth goes. I dont have...
I’ve typed a lot because a lot of people have responded to me. We’re having a conversation. That’s generally how a back-n-forth goes.

I dont have a stake in any of this. I just find it interesting. And if Im being honest, me and a lot of other race dad’s I’ve spoken to privately were really interested in what lines Deegan crossed. Dad’s judge each other - it’s normal. So I started this account to see if vital had any info YouTube didnt.

A lot of people are being dragged thru the mud on this due to the overzealous nature of everyone who has years of pent of frustration towards MX Sports, the AMA, DC, the Deegans, and everyone involved. If you cannot understand why that is hard to watch from the perspective that I have (which is that Im reserving judgement until I know more details) then I dont know what to tell you.
toroP wrote:
But you could be lying, right? Or should we assume you’re telling the truth?
So you think the guy that created his account YESTERDAY might be lying? Laughing
2
Bjorn645
Posts
168
Joined
10/3/2019
Location
Cape Town / London GB
8/15/2022 4:08am
Gungadin wrote:
Sore Loser = a hired damage control, and professional obfuscator, PR shill.
Yep and he/she needs to give whoever put them up to this their money back. Not made a difference AT ALL to overall opinion of Mx Sports/Star/B Deegan.
3
8/15/2022 2:54pm
Tiki wrote:
I CRINGE at that reasoning - Regardless its Amateur racing. That's on those that want to build expensive bikes. There should be no reason for them...
I CRINGE at that reasoning - Regardless its Amateur racing. That's on those that want to build expensive bikes. There should be no reason for them to put that much money into the bikes for a race that pays nothing. This is clearly breaking the rules of the sport period.

I follow you from there. Unknown if the Deegans or MX Sports did get involved. We do have to take his word on it until someone says differently. Still the the bike has not been given over, that's suspect.
Thanks.
Sore Loser wrote:
From the looks of the comments on Vital, most people made up their mind long before the Brennan interview came out. I think that is what...
From the looks of the comments on Vital, most people made up their mind long before the Brennan interview came out.

I think that is what I find cringe. Is that there were various accounts of the whole drama, and very quickly the mob decided which one they were going with. And when Brennan's version comes out and it aligns with what people had already deemed to be fact, that is textbook confirmation bias.

And now people are bent because they do not want to have to walk it back when they obviously jumped to conclusions. I think when you've been as successful as the Deegans have been, you're going to have a lot of people just waiting for the first chance to shit all over you. It's pretty much a staple of American culture. This was that moment for a lot of people to dump on them. In the same vein of thought, the AMA, MX Sports, and DC to some degree have built up their own army of haters (justified in many cases) so when they potentially shit the bed again in such a high profile way, anyone with any semblance of moral fiber uses this moment to get riled up. This is a chance for years/decades worth of frustration to be dumped out.

Im not even crucifying the mob. Americans are pretty fed up with corruption right now. It's just the social climate.
So because you don’t like people rushing into judgment (which is hard to change - get used to it) you continue to ignore the available information and stay all upset with people who didn’t have much information. Worse is someone who ignores the information and continues to talk as if they are informed. Sounds like someone with an agenda.
5
Tiki
Posts
9123
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Corona, CA US
8/15/2022 3:01pm
TbonesPop wrote:
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose. If the claiming...
Does anyone dispute that this claiming rule is a very good rule for amateur racing? After all, it was created for a purpose.

If the claiming rule is "frowned upon", what good is the rule? Isn't that how we got here in the first place?

Does anyone believe that this "shot across the bow" from the rider trying to claim the bike will not have an impact on how certain teams (Star, PC, etc.) prep their bikes going forward for amateur events in effect leveling the playing field (which was the purpose of the rule in the first place)?

This is how it was supposed to work.

How its not supposed to work is the industry high rollers coming in and steam rolling a 17 year old kid and thus stopping the process.
Sore Loser wrote:
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess. Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even...
Therein lies some of the ironic nuance in this mess.

Just about everyone cheering Brennan on would be pissed if their LL bike was claimed. Even if it was totally legal within the spirit of the rules. Thus why claiming is taboo.

We all love the rules when they're enforced on someone else. That's not consistent, it doesnt make sense, it makes many hypocrites but such is life in the mini scene.

Absolutely 100% No.

Racing Cars, Bikes, Demolition Derby, Snowboards, Sleds. Rules are in place for a reason. Why risk DQ by entering the race with a cheater? That's not how my life rolls.

He who is running a race ought to endeavor and strive to the utmost of his ability to come off victor; but it is utterly wrong for him to trip up his competitor, or to push him aside. So in life it is not unfair for one to seek for himself what may accrue to his benefit; but it is not right to take it from another. Chrysippus
LoudLove
Posts
1288
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
US
8/15/2022 3:10pm
Thing is, Sore Loser could have been a valuable counterpoint to the situation, as not all questions have been answered. However, this requires objectivity and neutrality, and it’s fairly apparent that SL has a somewhat biased perspective. Not that there’s anything wrong with defending other people, and even the “mob” (not my terminology) might loosen their grip with the right approach. Unfortunately tearing down Brennan was no where close to the right approach.

Remember, SL, it’s not what a person says that matters; it’s what others hear. If you’re frequently having to redefine a position, then maybe the messaging needs improvement.
Jkawi
Posts
29
Joined
3/5/2015
Location
CA
8/15/2022 5:02pm
Monte122 wrote:
How long before the OP starts deleting posts
Sore Loser wrote:
What would I have to delete?

I havent drawn any major conclusions. Im just asking questions.
Alright, made it 3 pages without replying (and I rarely do) but... Now you sound like the 17 yr old "playing victim" as you say. I don't have a single bone in this fight other than your irritating comments are simply annoying me. In fact I agreed with some of what you had to say at the beginning of the thread. Now, your just being a shit disturber to disturb shit. You haven't made any conclusions on who's right and wrong? Pretty obvious from your posts that you have. Who cares at this point other than you have brought more credibility to Brennan's side. Your posts might not explicitly say anything one way or the other, but they are HIGHLY suggestive. And now you sound and look like a douche. Congrats. Dumbass.

Lessons to those that got involved when they weren't stakeholders and are now being blamed for shit they didn't do.... DONT GET INVOLVED. I'm sure most are smart enough not too, which is why Brennan's story has more credibility. If the parties being named weren't on the wrong side, they would have said so by now.
3

Post a reply to: 13+ pages and yet nobody has asked this simple question...

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