13+ pages and yet nobody has asked this simple question...

Sore Loser wrote:

It's relevant because if the kid is lying about the source of the cash, his credibility is shot.

plowboy wrote:

The very BOTTOM line is that a legal claim was made. The AMA recognised the claim. Someone or others allowed this kid to be "talked" into...

The very BOTTOM line is that a legal claim was made. The AMA recognised the claim. Someone or others allowed this kid to be "talked" into dropping his claim. I (we) don't really know much more than that.

Imo...that's enough to to present the "appearance of impropriety".

I've always said, "if you won't tell me the truth...I'll make up a lie".

This is a shit show. So many bad decisions by grown men in positions of influence and power.

Sore Loser wrote:

Your bottom line I have no problem with. But Im asking, how do we know it was the dealership that talked the kid out of it...

Your bottom line I have no problem with. But Im asking, how do we know it was the dealership that talked the kid out of it. How do we know the motives of the dealership to talk the kid out of it?

The fact is, we dont. Yet all sorts of conclusions are being drawn. The kid Brennan himself doesnt even explain how he knows that Yamaha Corp is pressuring his dealer. He doesnt ever clarify if it was his dealer that directly asked him to drop the claim.

Go listen. It's the one part of that whole video where Brennan goes from being VERY direct and clear in his explanation to things getting a bit murky. He talks about the food chain of events as if it is conjecture.

Everyone in this sport knows that claiming is taboo. For all we know his sponsor, on their own behalf, said "dont do this kid - it's a bad look" and the kid took the advice. That means Yamaha never got involved. And it means that no wrong was committed. Because it's totally within the boundaries of decency for a sponsor to talk a kid out of a potential mistake.

Now do I think the claim itself was a mistake? Fuck no. I like the rule and understand why it's needed. But what goes on between a rider and his sponsor is there business and no reason for me to condemn MX Sports, Cotter, Deegan, Yamaha or anyone else. Not yet at least. Not until I know this Brennan kid is telling the absolute truth, cause if he's not, HOW IS THAT NOT RELEVANT HERE?!?

wreckitrandy wrote:

There are only two ways we the uninvolved ever see the kid justified. One, and it'll never happen, the principle of the dealership confirms the story...

There are only two ways we the uninvolved ever see the kid justified. One, and it'll never happen, the principle of the dealership confirms the story. He's on lockdown already. Two, very unlikely as well, it goes to court and phone records are made public. The kid's reputation was tarnished as soon as he put the wheels in motion. He would have fared better to have stayed in the game than pull stakes.

Sore Loser wrote:

Heck, I might not ever start this thread if the kid had explained how he came to the conclusion that Yamaha got involved. And if in...

Heck, I might not ever start this thread if the kid had explained how he came to the conclusion that Yamaha got involved. And if in fact he detailed that it was his sponsor that pressured him into dropping the claim and why. He doesnt. It's conspicuously left out of the story.

Correct me if Im wrong but he made it pretty clear that it was Matt Walker that was texting his sponsor. It's at 17:25 of the video. Brennan never even says he got a call from his sponsor. He just segways into what he "thinks" happened between all the major parties involved.

The kid could not have been more articulate and detailed up until that point, and then the details get soft. So I was left wondering why the shift.

Tiki wrote:

I CRINGE at that reasoning - Regardless its Amateur racing. That's on those that want to build expensive bikes. There should be no reason for them...

I CRINGE at that reasoning - Regardless its Amateur racing. That's on those that want to build expensive bikes. There should be no reason for them to put that much money into the bikes for a race that pays nothing. This is clearly breaking the rules of the sport period.

I follow you from there. Unknown if the Deegans or MX Sports did get involved. We do have to take his word on it until someone says differently. Still the the bike has not been given over, that's suspect.
Thanks.

Sore Loser wrote:

From the looks of the comments on Vital, most people made up their mind long before the Brennan interview came out. I think that is what...

From the looks of the comments on Vital, most people made up their mind long before the Brennan interview came out.

I think that is what I find cringe. Is that there were various accounts of the whole drama, and very quickly the mob decided which one they were going with. And when Brennan's version comes out and it aligns with what people had already deemed to be fact, that is textbook confirmation bias.

And now people are bent because they do not want to have to walk it back when they obviously jumped to conclusions. I think when you've been as successful as the Deegans have been, you're going to have a lot of people just waiting for the first chance to shit all over you. It's pretty much a staple of American culture. This was that moment for a lot of people to dump on them. In the same vein of thought, the AMA, MX Sports, and DC to some degree have built up their own army of haters (justified in many cases) so when they potentially shit the bed again in such a high profile way, anyone with any semblance of moral fiber uses this moment to get riled up. This is a chance for years/decades worth of frustration to be dumped out.

Im not even crucifying the mob. Americans are pretty fed up with corruption right now. It's just the social climate.

TbonesPop wrote:

So, your position in this is to reserve judgement on the Deegan's but the Brennan kid is lying. That's your defense. Ok, got it. Check. Here's...

So, your position in this is to reserve judgement on the Deegan's but the Brennan kid is lying. That's your defense. Ok, got it. Check.

Here's the issue I have outside of the Yamaha issue - which is a BIG issue. Yamaha needs to investigate the claim and deal with it accordingly. The issue I have with Deegan is, he's acting guilty. He's acting like he's lying, and he knows it. The Brennan kid isn't acting guilty. Deegan has made himself in his career off of being a rebel in the industry. His whole marketable brand was formed out of sticking it to "the man", "buck the system". He couldn't get it done consistently in the AMA racing scene so he went the FMX route, created this whole bad boy image, metal mullisha shtick , chip on his shoulder - Anti-AMA branding. And to that, I say good for him. Imagine if the genuine and authentic Brian Deegan of old would have responded to this Claim situation with a "fuck yea, bro - good for you dude - Touche for knowing the rules and making it happen". Then Brian could taken pictures with the kid and blown the whole thing up on social media as something super cool in the sport. Think about the positive press that would have come from that. But instead he's acting like a guilty of something, entitled little "let them eat cake" bitch. He's now "the man" that he has built his brand off of trying to stick it to for all these years. He's lost his roots and has no integrity.

Ask yourself the question, how would have the 2002 Brian Deegan handled this situation as a bystander rider 20 years ago? Who would he have aligned with?

I've always rooted for Brian Deegan because I like to root for the underdog - the rebel, the chip on his shoulder guy that made something for himself in a non-traditional way from nothing to making it big. Now, fuck that. He's everything he used to fight against. And that sad part is, Deegan doesn't even realize it.

Sore Loser wrote:

I've never said Brennan was lying. Not once. The fact is, I dont know if he's lying any more than I know he's telling the truth...

I've never said Brennan was lying. Not once. The fact is, I dont know if he's lying any more than I know he's telling the truth.

I've stated clearly that I think his candor serves him well. He came across very well in the interview. But there are some major discrepancies everyone is just glossing over.

And again, I dont know how Deegan 2002 wouldve handled it because I dont know how Deegan 2022 actually handled it. All I have is the first hand version from a 17 year old kid that already doesnt like the Deegans. Do I find his version credible? Yes. Gospel? No.

I was honestly hoping this thread would get answered by someone that had some facts that I had missed. But so far I've been met with mostly hostility from those that have already made up their mind.

There's still two sides to this story floating around. Nothing anyone has said here has debunked that fact. Just because one side shouts louder doesnt make them righteous.

SX_336 wrote:

Again, your brain seems to not be able to process simple information. It appears as such anyway. That bike had a factory built motor in it...

Again, your brain seems to not be able to process simple information. It appears as such anyway.

That bike had a factory built motor in it that YAMAHA did not want in the public sector. They didn’t want the ECU in public sector. This was a simple claim, yet you had a Yamaha representative there. You really think the kid just thought all this bullshit up? Everything he said makes perfect sense. The fact that Matt Walker was involved gives his story credibility. Not to mention, have you heard anyone he’s accused of anything come out and say he’s lying? Hell no! They are all hoping the Unadilla National will take everyone’s attention away from all this. Use your head.

As for the kid claiming the bike on his own……….If you had thought and planned this out as he did, worked as hard as he did to get the money, you’d be the one going up there and filing the claim as well. You’d be proud that you set out to do something and accomplished it. You’re trying to pick a part the wrong story. You should be directing your negativity toward Yamaha, MX Sports, Weege and Cotter. THEY are who you should be questioning. As someone who’s worked at a high volume and high end dealership, I 110% believe Yamaha called the dealership and threatened them. I’ve seen it done before.

Sore Loser wrote:

Yes, I have heard as much. The fact that there are two very different accounts of what went on is a direct indication that someone is...

Yes, I have heard as much. The fact that there are two very different accounts of what went on is a direct indication that someone is lying - it could be Brennan.

The fact is, I dont know enough to know who is lying. And nobody has made any new information available, they've just shouted something to the effect of DAMMIT YOU SHOULD BELIEVE HIM BECAUSE IT'S BELIEVABLE AND IT'S THE ONLY STORY BEING TOLD AT THIS MOMENT. That's not a very valid argument in my book. Translated it sounds like, "I made up my mind already and so should you."

Sore Loser wrote:

It matters if a significant portion of Brennan's story is a lie.

lostboy819 wrote:

Prove it.

Sore Loser wrote:

Prove what?

You want proof that lying is relevant to a person's credibility???

wreckitrandy wrote:

There are only two ways we the uninvolved ever see the kid justified. One, and it'll never happen, the principle of the dealership confirms the story...

There are only two ways we the uninvolved ever see the kid justified. One, and it'll never happen, the principle of the dealership confirms the story. He's on lockdown already. Two, very unlikely as well, it goes to court and phone records are made public. The kid's reputation was tarnished as soon as he put the wheels in motion. He would have fared better to have stayed in the game than pull stakes.

Sore Loser wrote:

Heck, I might not ever start this thread if the kid had explained how he came to the conclusion that Yamaha got involved. And if in...

Heck, I might not ever start this thread if the kid had explained how he came to the conclusion that Yamaha got involved. And if in fact he detailed that it was his sponsor that pressured him into dropping the claim and why. He doesnt. It's conspicuously left out of the story.

Correct me if Im wrong but he made it pretty clear that it was Matt Walker that was texting his sponsor. It's at 17:25 of the video. Brennan never even says he got a call from his sponsor. He just segways into what he "thinks" happened between all the major parties involved.

The kid could not have been more articulate and detailed up until that point, and then the details get soft. So I was left wondering why the shift.

wreckitrandy wrote:

There are only two ways we the uninvolved ever see the kid justified. One, and it'll never happen, the principle of the dealership confirms the story...

There are only two ways we the uninvolved ever see the kid justified. One, and it'll never happen, the principle of the dealership confirms the story. He's on lockdown already. Two, very unlikely as well, it goes to court and phone records are made public. The kid's reputation was tarnished as soon as he put the wheels in motion. He would have fared better to have stayed in the game than pull stakes.

Sore Loser wrote:

Heck, I might not ever start this thread if the kid had explained how he came to the conclusion that Yamaha got involved. And if in...

Heck, I might not ever start this thread if the kid had explained how he came to the conclusion that Yamaha got involved. And if in fact he detailed that it was his sponsor that pressured him into dropping the claim and why. He doesnt. It's conspicuously left out of the story.

Correct me if Im wrong but he made it pretty clear that it was Matt Walker that was texting his sponsor. It's at 17:25 of the video. Brennan never even says he got a call from his sponsor. He just segways into what he "thinks" happened between all the major parties involved.

The kid could not have been more articulate and detailed up until that point, and then the details get soft. So I was left wondering why the shift.

jstein639 wrote:

"[i]Heck, I might not ever start this thread if the kid had explained how he came to the conclusion that Yamaha got involved. And if in...

"Heck, I might not ever start this thread if the kid had explained how he came to the conclusion that Yamaha got involved. And if in fact he detailed that it was his sponsor that pressured him into dropping the claim and why. He doesnt. It's conspicuously left out of the story."

He's a 17 year old kid, not an attorney who knows how to detail every relevant fact. I think it's fair to ask if the story is true, but there are a few facts that weigh toward Brennan being credible, mainly that he withdrew his claim. Why would someone do that, when he went through incredible effort for a 17 year old to raise the $ to claim the bike, unless he was strongly coerced?

I also think Brennan's story is fairly credible since, having Brian Deegan already toss the word "defame" around, I would be shocked if Brennan or his parents weren't somewhat worried about getting sued. That doesn't 100% prove that he's being honest, but it would be shocking if he flat out lied knowing that the Deegans would probably go after him if he did.

SX_336 wrote:

Again, your brain seems to not be able to process simple information. It appears as such anyway. That bike had a factory built motor in it...

Again, your brain seems to not be able to process simple information. It appears as such anyway.

That bike had a factory built motor in it that YAMAHA did not want in the public sector. They didn’t want the ECU in public sector. This was a simple claim, yet you had a Yamaha representative there. You really think the kid just thought all this bullshit up? Everything he said makes perfect sense. The fact that Matt Walker was involved gives his story credibility. Not to mention, have you heard anyone he’s accused of anything come out and say he’s lying? Hell no! They are all hoping the Unadilla National will take everyone’s attention away from all this. Use your head.

As for the kid claiming the bike on his own……….If you had thought and planned this out as he did, worked as hard as he did to get the money, you’d be the one going up there and filing the claim as well. You’d be proud that you set out to do something and accomplished it. You’re trying to pick a part the wrong story. You should be directing your negativity toward Yamaha, MX Sports, Weege and Cotter. THEY are who you should be questioning. As someone who’s worked at a high volume and high end dealership, I 110% believe Yamaha called the dealership and threatened them. I’ve seen it done before.

Sore Loser wrote:

Yes, I have heard as much. The fact that there are two very different accounts of what went on is a direct indication that someone is...

Yes, I have heard as much. The fact that there are two very different accounts of what went on is a direct indication that someone is lying - it could be Brennan.

The fact is, I dont know enough to know who is lying. And nobody has made any new information available, they've just shouted something to the effect of DAMMIT YOU SHOULD BELIEVE HIM BECAUSE IT'S BELIEVABLE AND IT'S THE ONLY STORY BEING TOLD AT THIS MOMENT. That's not a very valid argument in my book. Translated it sounds like, "I made up my mind already and so should you."

SX_336 wrote:

As I said in my first post. The kid maid a claim for the bike, the AMA accepted his claim AND his money. The ONLY reason...

As I said in my first post. The kid maid a claim for the bike, the AMA accepted his claim AND his money. The ONLY reason he isn’t on the bike is because of Cotter, Deegan, Matt Walker and Yamaha. These people intervened. I don’t question a single thing the kid said. He stuck to his guns. Again, you don’t here ANY of the people he accused of wrongdoing screaming their innocence. And you know they have all seen his interview. THAT tells you who is lying. The fact that he does not have the bike tells you who is lying. End of story.

Sore Loser wrote:

The ONLY reason he doesnt have the bike is because he dropped the claim. He in fact, did not, stick to his guns. Im not sure...

The ONLY reason he doesnt have the bike is because he dropped the claim. He in fact, did not, stick to his guns.

Im not sure how you think it's logical to assume that because he dropped the claim, his story is 100% factual.

If I had to guess, based on what I know as of now, I bet his story is about 75% true.



You could also argue that the only reason he dropped the claim is because the AMA shit the bed and let Cotter & Deegan & Yamaha get involved..... if indeed that is how it went down.

Are y'all really surprised at how Yamaha acted? They're not the one with the moral responsibilities here. In fact, the sole reason the AMA exists in this context is to allow fair execution of the rules. They deserve the bulk of the hate here. They are supposed to be the adults in the room. Funny how even the "victim" here Brennan thinks they were his friends. They werent. The AMA stood by like jellyfish - allegedly.

TbonesPop wrote:

If I were Brennan's parents I would lawyer up and pray that the Deegans wanted to try and sue for Defamation. Force them to start going...

If I were Brennan's parents I would lawyer up and pray that the Deegans wanted to try and sue for Defamation. Force them to start going through the legal discovery process - which for the guilty party sucks major ass. Brian Deegan has a LOT more to lose than Brennan has to gain, so he'd be wise to STFU with the whole defamation BS. The fact that he was saying that dropping the "defame" word shows Deegan is only capable of playing checkers and not chess.

Sore Loser wrote:

Civil lawsuits are a battle of attrition. Not a battle of the truth. Brennan's family would get destroyed regardless of the facts in a case like...

Civil lawsuits are a battle of attrition. Not a battle of the truth.

Brennan's family would get destroyed regardless of the facts in a case like this.

Sore Loser wrote:

Since the other thread is basically a "shit all over Yamaha and the Deegans" love fest, I figured a new thread might be warranted for the...

Since the other thread is basically a "shit all over Yamaha and the Deegans" love fest, I figured a new thread might be warranted for the 2 or 3 of us that arent looking for an excuse to be pissed off or shit on the Deegans. Maybe a pause for some critical thinking and basic questions before drawing any conclusions.

How do we know Brennan is telling the truth?


I'll give him this, he's articulate, and his way of telling his account of what went down comes across as extremely credible. It's how I'd expect someone to tell the truth IF they were telling the truth.

But we havent heard the other side's version of events. And most importantly, Brennan never says how he knew Yamaha Corp was pressuring his sponsor. He clearly states in the interview at around the 17:30 mark what he assumes was the food chain of events. But he never specifically says how he knows this. And the interviewer (Tyler) never asks for clarification.

That to me is a significant moment in the interview. Because if the kid is just ASSUMING his dealership was being pressured, that is a big red flag and it calls into question the rest of his account of the events.

Another thing I find odd, he plays the innocent victim here very well. Never mentions for a moment that he and Haiden have personal beef with each other. He "just wanted to see what it was like to ride a factory bike". Really? That's ALL there is to this story? Now dont get me wrong, Brennan does not have to justify the why. The claim of the bike was within the rules - and the rule is a good one. The bottom line, dont want your unobtanium bike claimed, DONT BRING ONE TO AN AMATEUR RACE. But before I wholesale believe EVERY detail of your story, I want to know all the details. And a significant one is that these two groups have history. This was more than just "wanting to see what a factory bike felt like". Is that relevant to the claiming rule? No, not at all. But it is relevant to the credibility of this Brennan kid. So before I jump on his bandwagon and take everything as gospel, I pause and wonder why certain details are being left out.

If the Deegans are the new Alessis, lets not forget that the Alessis drama didnt exist in a vacuum. He had his rivals and those rivals werent saints either. Other equally overzealous mini dads. And plenty of ankle biting that fueled all the bullshit that went on between all parties involved.

I think it's only fair these questions are asked. Because when I talk to people "in the know" they're telling a very different version of all of this. For example:

- The engine builder fronted the cash for the claim
- Tim Cotter only interviewed Brennan AFTER the claim was rescinded and did so to make sure he wasnt being pressured by Yamaha
- I've heard some say that Brian Deegan never actually cornered the kid

Are any of those statements factual? Of course not. All Im saying is that if you can get past the mob mentality, there's actually another version of the story floating around that severely contradicts what a 17 year old kid is claiming.

I for one think that if indeed that kid was talked to privately by Cotter, Deegan, or anyone NOT the AMA, a SERIOUS line was crossed because again, he's a kid. But to be consistent, I also know that KIDS LIE all the time. So if you're not an adult, you dont get the benefit of the doubt like an adult either.

Sore Loser wrote:

What would I have to delete?

I havent drawn any major conclusions. Im just asking questions.

thatswhathappens wrote:

Member since today? Definitely not Yamaha/Deegan PR going into damage control, right? lol Who gives a [i]fuck[/i] where his parents were, HE (a minor) was apparently...

Member since today? Definitely not Yamaha/Deegan PR going into damage control, right? lol

Who gives a fuck where his parents were, HE (a minor) was apparently cornered and pressured by adults to drop the purchase of a bike that he had the right to claim, because Star/Yamaha decided to be fucking idiots and run factory parts in a race where the bike was eligible to be claimed.

Sore Loser wrote:

Civil cases are tough to win because it's so easy to muddy the waters. I too have experience in civil matters. I had all the evidence...

Civil cases are tough to win because it's so easy to muddy the waters.

I too have experience in civil matters. I had all the evidence on my side. I spent a lot of money and there was only resolution once one party ran out of money.

The Deegans are not going to run out of money so in a matter like this, Brennan's family are much better off avoiding the hair loss.