Davey Coombs Interview (Updated with Open Letter)

JACE516
Posts
5
Joined
3/21/2021
Location
Dawsonville, GA US
7/8/2022 3:18am
If the powers that be don't find creative ways to induce more sponsors to participate, or get the factories to pool in some money towards TV production and air time, the outdoor nationals will be back to the limited or no televised races we had in the 70s. If that happens, more and more of the top riders will opt for Supercross only.
4
7/8/2022 3:35am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2022 3:43am
I don't think DC has his finger on the pulse as much as he thinks he does when he says there's no problem with the production, only with MavTV+. There have been many issues with the production side as well like the ad breaks, overlays, course previews and legend stats during races. Not to mention the tiny battle box where I struggle to see who's who even on my 150 inch screen, and the endless cutting away from battles. Granted MavTV+ was an utter shitshow, but lets not pretend the rest is all sunshine and rainbows.

It also seems strange that DC wouldn't have the streaming numbers. How is he selling this product to broadcasters without it? Maybe he'd be surprised to know how high they are? (Pala got 500k+ streams just on youtube) We live in a streaming world now, and MXsports could take a page from F1's playbook and really focus on international streaming. It sounds like Davey really wants a terrestrial broadcaster for the US, maybe it's time to split the package between terrestrial and streaming with the rights available separately. Maybe that would solve the issue.
37
2
ns503
Posts
4558
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NS Toolies CA
7/8/2022 3:37am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2022 3:41am
It is a GROSS over-simplification to say SX and MX have the same talent pool so they should draw the same viewership. Also, they don't even...
It is a GROSS over-simplification to say SX and MX have the same talent pool so they should draw the same viewership. Also, they don't even have the same talent pool.
MX: Webb is gone this year. Eli will be gone next year. I think Kenny will be too.
Most of the people on this forum have a passion for the nationals, that's not how it is for the demographic.
ALL the OEM's would take a SX title over an MX title every day of the week.
colintrax wrote:
Counter. SX didn't have AC222 or RD5 show up. And if MX pulled in the same money as SX then we wouldn't have so many wanting...
Counter.

SX didn't have AC222 or RD5 show up.

And if MX pulled in the same money as SX then we wouldn't have so many wanting to do SX only.
Counter.

(This might not be the right post to counter to. But maybe one counter deserves another? Smile )

If everyone thinks personally, how much other stuff in your life is competing with watching racing on the tube on a summer Saturday afternoon vs. a winter Saturday night? Myself, I was lucky to catch the first couple few races this year. So the refund I got from Roku on my Mav sub this week fit into that just fine with me. I just have too much other stuff going on during summer weekends that I'd rarely be able to watch. Beers at the beach being factor #1 there - then when I do happen to rarely be home from the beach on a weekend I am making up time on other crap that I didn't get done those weekends I was at the beach. Or other places.

And I don't even go to the track anymore on the weekends just to spectate. So guys who actually go to the track on the weekend, which is maybe most on here and also a big portion of their possible audience, would be doing that rather than staying home to watch races on the screen. I know I would pick the track over the screen if it came to that.
5
Joey_Bridges
Posts
1550
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Kingston, TN US
7/8/2022 3:41am
ML512 wrote:
I didn’t watch FloRacing stream this weekend so maybe someone else can answer this for me, was it commercial free or no? Peacock isn’t an option...
I didn’t watch FloRacing stream this weekend so maybe someone else can answer this for me, was it commercial free or no?

Peacock isn’t an option with a separate tv contract. We can’t be on MAVTV for live tv races and Peacock at the same time.
That's something everyone doesn't seem to understand.
1

The Shop

ML512
Posts
16898
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
7/8/2022 4:50am
Ozy wrote:
It does not add up because Motocross and Supercross have the exact same target audience. If there were bets being placed my bet would go to...
It does not add up because Motocross and Supercross have the exact same target audience.

If there were bets being placed my bet would go to the line that says the peacock pie was not large enough for feld and mxsports to share so mxsports tried to bake their own pie . . . better luck next season.

Does it take two Pala races to make up the loss of Glen Helen? At some point us old guys just give up and smile. Hope all parties involved make all the money their heart desires!!
“The Peacock pie” neither series gets paid any portion of the streaming subscription. That’s all NBC, there’s no pie there to split…
6
ML512
Posts
16898
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
7/8/2022 4:52am
I don't think DC has his finger on the pulse as much as he thinks he does when he says there's no problem with the production...
I don't think DC has his finger on the pulse as much as he thinks he does when he says there's no problem with the production, only with MavTV+. There have been many issues with the production side as well like the ad breaks, overlays, course previews and legend stats during races. Not to mention the tiny battle box where I struggle to see who's who even on my 150 inch screen, and the endless cutting away from battles. Granted MavTV+ was an utter shitshow, but lets not pretend the rest is all sunshine and rainbows.

It also seems strange that DC wouldn't have the streaming numbers. How is he selling this product to broadcasters without it? Maybe he'd be surprised to know how high they are? (Pala got 500k+ streams just on youtube) We live in a streaming world now, and MXsports could take a page from F1's playbook and really focus on international streaming. It sounds like Davey really wants a terrestrial broadcaster for the US, maybe it's time to split the package between terrestrial and streaming with the rights available separately. Maybe that would solve the issue.
We talked briefly about that. The sport isn’t big enough / doesn’t have enough leverage. Basically NBC won’t do peacock only with them and let them run another TV network and vice versa. They have to go all in with whatever broadcasting partner they end up doing a deal with.
1
3
AH387
Posts
1631
Joined
8/29/2019
Location
Bridgeville, PA US
7/8/2022 4:53am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2022 4:54am
Well as always there is always more to it than people usually realize. And I am guilty of that myself, in this situation. It just sucks that this year has gone so bad on the TV side, when the racing has been so awesome. Thanks DC and ML for the interview.
3
Joey_Bridges
Posts
1550
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Kingston, TN US
7/8/2022 5:03am
Halfway through.
A reality check, and reminder of what goes on behind the scenes in order to bring us moto every week.

It's time to quit our bitching.
4
13
7/8/2022 5:05am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2022 5:06am
ML512 wrote:
We talked briefly about that. The sport isn’t big enough / doesn’t have enough leverage. Basically NBC won’t do peacock only with them and let them...
We talked briefly about that. The sport isn’t big enough / doesn’t have enough leverage. Basically NBC won’t do peacock only with them and let them run another TV network and vice versa. They have to go all in with whatever broadcasting partner they end up doing a deal with.
I'm not very familiar with the US terrestrial landscape so will defer to you, but I feel there must be a nationwide syndicate that would want the broadcast only rights.

Another thought is that from the numbers I've seen I reckon MX sports could bring in $20-40 million per season from just streaming subscriptions if they started their own service. Surely with that budget they could produce their own broadcast and then shop the terrestrial rights around? I bet that would be extremely appealing to a number of broadcast networks. They get to air the program without any investment in production.
Joey_Bridges
Posts
1550
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Kingston, TN US
7/8/2022 5:18am
I'm not very familiar with the US terrestrial landscape so will defer to you, but I feel there must be a nationwide syndicate that would want...
I'm not very familiar with the US terrestrial landscape so will defer to you, but I feel there must be a nationwide syndicate that would want the broadcast only rights.

Another thought is that from the numbers I've seen I reckon MX sports could bring in $20-40 million per season from just streaming subscriptions if they started their own service. Surely with that budget they could produce their own broadcast and then shop the terrestrial rights around? I bet that would be extremely appealing to a number of broadcast networks. They get to air the program without any investment in production.
Biggest challenge is fighting the ballsports culture here in this country.
And on the racing side of things.....
nascar has sucked the energy out of every other form of racing across the board.
They literally scrounge up every single sponsor who might even be thinking about spending money on a racing series.
They even go so far as to steal sponsors brought into the sport by individual teams, then slapping their banners across the tarps that now cover the huge amount of empty seats at the tracks.

Moto may never overcome that.
3
ML512
Posts
16898
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
7/8/2022 5:20am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2022 5:21am
ML512 wrote:
We talked briefly about that. The sport isn’t big enough / doesn’t have enough leverage. Basically NBC won’t do peacock only with them and let them...
We talked briefly about that. The sport isn’t big enough / doesn’t have enough leverage. Basically NBC won’t do peacock only with them and let them run another TV network and vice versa. They have to go all in with whatever broadcasting partner they end up doing a deal with.
I'm not very familiar with the US terrestrial landscape so will defer to you, but I feel there must be a nationwide syndicate that would want...
I'm not very familiar with the US terrestrial landscape so will defer to you, but I feel there must be a nationwide syndicate that would want the broadcast only rights.

Another thought is that from the numbers I've seen I reckon MX sports could bring in $20-40 million per season from just streaming subscriptions if they started their own service. Surely with that budget they could produce their own broadcast and then shop the terrestrial rights around? I bet that would be extremely appealing to a number of broadcast networks. They get to air the program without any investment in production.
NBC was basically offered the series with little to no production on their end. The series works that out with Lucas oil andLucas oil productions. Something Davi mentions that is very hard for a broadcasting partner to work with is the four hour block they’re looking for live. NBC was usually only taking our second motos because even when they had a sports network, the time slots werent there.

I don’t disagree on building their own streaming service like MXGP has done but that would be a long term investment. The required crew, systems and most importantly app itself to make it happen on that scale would cost a decent penny. It took MXGP quite a few years to make the transition worth it for them.

I also wouldn’t judge the revenue numbers off of YouTube views for three main reasons. One, it was free, numbers will always be higher when free and there’s not a paywall. Two, it’s harder get someone to go through a paywall when there’s only one item behind it and not a full network worth of stuff (Ala MXGP vs a Peacock scenario). Finally, third, I personally believe if you were able to accomplish what you said above and got a broadcast partner for only the TV rights portion and it was a decent partner like Fox or CBS, the streaming numbers would suffer if it’s on a TV network that’s widely available and part of your TV package already. Not everyone gets MAVTV as part of their TV package and that would’ve pushed more to YouTube for that race that ran on there.
1
5
davis224
Posts
7377
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
7/8/2022 5:35am
I can understand if Mav was our only/best option available, but how it was sold to us as "an all around improvement for a true moto fan" when it seemed pretty obvious that it was not going to be that, is what left a bitter taste in all our mouths.
10
ML512
Posts
16898
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
7/8/2022 5:44am
davis224 wrote:
I can understand if Mav was our only/best option available, but how it was sold to us as "an all around improvement for a true moto...
I can understand if Mav was our only/best option available, but how it was sold to us as "an all around improvement for a true moto fan" when it seemed pretty obvious that it was not going to be that, is what left a bitter taste in all our mouths.
I think on their end they did believe there were positives. One being that other than the three motos on NBC, there would be almost no mid-day switching of TV channels since MAVTV would have all the motos four hours back-to-back.

Two, the same company is doing all of it and they wanted to bring in shoulder programming such as the PulpMX show and other potential new ideas focused around the series.

Three, if it had gone well they probably would've finally had the knowledge of stream numbers and better data to use going forward with production and sponsorship with the series.

Four, MAVTV was much more open to media outlets and riders creating content with race footage in it, better sharing multiple storylines. Where everything tied to NBC would get shut down very quickly.

In theory there were positives for the series. In practice though, it didn't end that way. It ended poorly enough on the MAVTV+ side that people lost their jobs and the entity is going away / merging with FloRacing. Yes, it was a big oops and people paid the consequences for sure.

5
1
Darksidemx3
Posts
379
Joined
7/13/2017
Location
White Oak, TX US
7/8/2022 5:49am
Good work, ML. Davey took responsibility even though I don't blame him. He was told by Mav they could handle the job. Not his fault they could not. I learned a lot I wasn't aware of
7
1
7/8/2022 5:56am
After the first weeks disaster we were told that it was a mistake and that the MAVTV “channel broadcast” was accidentally streamed on the app. We were also told that moving forward the app would be commercial free.

Sounds like the live commercial free motos for subscribers is a thing of the past. Commercial breaks during the motos really ruins it. I can’t believe that is unavoidable now.
11
aees
Posts
2693
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
US
7/8/2022 5:59am
I think DC need to realize what many smaller national series has realized, streaming the events is a MUST in these days. Doing this splitt shit between broadcast and streaming is ridiculous. Makes it look like a farmer series that can't afford anything to be done right.

MXGP even removed advertising in the beginning of their shows to this year (which was the only spit they had it before), and production and quality is great.

12
ratbeagle139
Posts
133
Joined
12/16/2020
Location
Lazy E, OK US
7/8/2022 6:11am
I paid up front for an annual subscription to MAVTV, I have yet to receive an email regarding the switch to FLOTV or about my $90 refund. I’m done watching live starting this weekend, this interview didn’t prove shit to convince me otherwise.
4
2
soggy
Posts
8512
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
7/8/2022 6:18am
In my opinion if the nationals want to be on tv and be an attractive package to networks they need a new format to fit in a 3 hour window. Something like 20 min motos. Outside of golf there aren’t many televised sports that take 4 hours with 2 hours of down time.
3
5
Silas444
Posts
638
Joined
5/23/2015
Location
Mid-state, ME US
7/8/2022 6:28am
There's only one way to keep outdoor motocross alive in the US, and that's by merging it with the supercross series. Why no one admits this, I don't know, but it's painfully obvious to me. So then, WHY NOT create a single championship? The series could start in September on Labor Day at Red Bud, then go to Spring Creek, then Unadilla, then Southwick, then Thunder Valley, then Washougal; and then finish off with ten more races indoors once the snow flies. A 16 race series - perfect. Eliminate Pala, eliminate Anaheim 3,4,5,and 6, eliminate Atlanta and maybe one other indoor event - and there you go - you're all set. The riders would no longer need to melt in the blistering summer heat, they'd no longer suffer from burnout as they'd get the summer off, and we'd stop the "indoor specialists" from completely taking over (which otherwise, they will).

It would be great to watch, great to attend, and it would ensure the sport's future viability. So simple.

Hello? Hello? Yup, still no one listening.
2
7
yak651
Posts
8601
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI US
Fantasy
7/8/2022 6:35am
soggy wrote:
In my opinion if the nationals want to be on tv and be an attractive package to networks they need a new format to fit in...
In my opinion if the nationals want to be on tv and be an attractive package to networks they need a new format to fit in a 3 hour window. Something like 20 min motos. Outside of golf there aren’t many televised sports that take 4 hours with 2 hours of down time.
Yep I know the traditionalist will complain but change it to 25+1. Should be close to 30 minutes. Find a way to have 15 minutes between 250/450 motos. Maybe need more tractors/operators stationed in key areas to fix track between motos. Less downtime between motos should prevent some of the drying out of the track so maybe as much water doesn't need to be thrown down. Should be able to get the window to 3 hours. Golf, football, baseball and basketball all take at least 3 hour windows for their broadcast. At a max get it to 3.5 hours
1
2
7/8/2022 6:38am
Silas444 wrote:
There's only one way to keep outdoor motocross alive in the US, and that's by merging it with the supercross series. Why no one admits this...
There's only one way to keep outdoor motocross alive in the US, and that's by merging it with the supercross series. Why no one admits this, I don't know, but it's painfully obvious to me. So then, WHY NOT create a single championship? The series could start in September on Labor Day at Red Bud, then go to Spring Creek, then Unadilla, then Southwick, then Thunder Valley, then Washougal; and then finish off with ten more races indoors once the snow flies. A 16 race series - perfect. Eliminate Pala, eliminate Anaheim 3,4,5,and 6, eliminate Atlanta and maybe one other indoor event - and there you go - you're all set. The riders would no longer need to melt in the blistering summer heat, they'd no longer suffer from burnout as they'd get the summer off, and we'd stop the "indoor specialists" from completely taking over (which otherwise, they will).

It would be great to watch, great to attend, and it would ensure the sport's future viability. So simple.

Hello? Hello? Yup, still no one listening.
That may be the dumbest suggestion I’ve ever read here and that’s saying a lot.
4
5
-MAVERICK-
Posts
65671
Joined
3/26/2015
Location
Ontario CA
7/8/2022 6:42am
ML512 wrote:
NBC was basically offered the series with little to no production on their end. The series works that out with Lucas oil andLucas oil productions. Something...
NBC was basically offered the series with little to no production on their end. The series works that out with Lucas oil andLucas oil productions. Something Davi mentions that is very hard for a broadcasting partner to work with is the four hour block they’re looking for live. NBC was usually only taking our second motos because even when they had a sports network, the time slots werent there.

I don’t disagree on building their own streaming service like MXGP has done but that would be a long term investment. The required crew, systems and most importantly app itself to make it happen on that scale would cost a decent penny. It took MXGP quite a few years to make the transition worth it for them.

I also wouldn’t judge the revenue numbers off of YouTube views for three main reasons. One, it was free, numbers will always be higher when free and there’s not a paywall. Two, it’s harder get someone to go through a paywall when there’s only one item behind it and not a full network worth of stuff (Ala MXGP vs a Peacock scenario). Finally, third, I personally believe if you were able to accomplish what you said above and got a broadcast partner for only the TV rights portion and it was a decent partner like Fox or CBS, the streaming numbers would suffer if it’s on a TV network that’s widely available and part of your TV package already. Not everyone gets MAVTV as part of their TV package and that would’ve pushed more to YouTube for that race that ran on there.
On building their own streaming service.

Doesn't DC own RacerTV?

They seem to do a pretty good job with Loretta Lynn's, GNCC and the other series they broadcast.

Maybe time to throw some money towards that and build it up. Pretty solid starting platform.

GNCC Racing has been making strides in the exposure department for years, but what really separates the series is the elevated television package that began in 2001 and has since evolved into Racer TV package on the NBC Sports Network, and #GNCCLIVE coverage at RacerTV.com. Following every lap of the pro races live every weekend via the internet once seemed like a pipe dream. Now, it happens every weekend, and the series continues to benefit.
10
ML512
Posts
16898
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
7/8/2022 7:03am
ML512 wrote:
NBC was basically offered the series with little to no production on their end. The series works that out with Lucas oil andLucas oil productions. Something...
NBC was basically offered the series with little to no production on their end. The series works that out with Lucas oil andLucas oil productions. Something Davi mentions that is very hard for a broadcasting partner to work with is the four hour block they’re looking for live. NBC was usually only taking our second motos because even when they had a sports network, the time slots werent there.

I don’t disagree on building their own streaming service like MXGP has done but that would be a long term investment. The required crew, systems and most importantly app itself to make it happen on that scale would cost a decent penny. It took MXGP quite a few years to make the transition worth it for them.

I also wouldn’t judge the revenue numbers off of YouTube views for three main reasons. One, it was free, numbers will always be higher when free and there’s not a paywall. Two, it’s harder get someone to go through a paywall when there’s only one item behind it and not a full network worth of stuff (Ala MXGP vs a Peacock scenario). Finally, third, I personally believe if you were able to accomplish what you said above and got a broadcast partner for only the TV rights portion and it was a decent partner like Fox or CBS, the streaming numbers would suffer if it’s on a TV network that’s widely available and part of your TV package already. Not everyone gets MAVTV as part of their TV package and that would’ve pushed more to YouTube for that race that ran on there.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
On building their own streaming service. Doesn't DC own RacerTV? They seem to do a pretty good job with Loretta Lynn's, GNCC and the other series...
On building their own streaming service.

Doesn't DC own RacerTV?

They seem to do a pretty good job with Loretta Lynn's, GNCC and the other series they broadcast.

Maybe time to throw some money towards that and build it up. Pretty solid starting platform.

GNCC Racing has been making strides in the exposure department for years, but what really separates the series is the elevated television package that began in 2001 and has since evolved into Racer TV package on the NBC Sports Network, and #GNCCLIVE coverage at RacerTV.com. Following every lap of the pro races live every weekend via the internet once seemed like a pipe dream. Now, it happens every weekend, and the series continues to benefit.
We talked about that a bit. It's a difference of about 10 times the amount of people to make it work, big TV trucks, and a lot higher end equipment. I don't disagree that the series could eventually get there but the more I look into the costs, the scarier it gets. It would be a long-term investment but I think the main factor against a long-term rebuild of our viewership would be losing OEM interest and other major sponsors interest during that time. Ala what happened to road racing.

I think it'll get there in due time. There's a lot going on behind the scenes right now that's off-record in relation to how the sport will be presented and packaged in the very near future. Like...we should see more about it by off-season.
2
3
lestat
Posts
1762
Joined
10/3/2008
Location
Piut RE
7/8/2022 7:31am
It’s time to give up the outdoor motocross network dream . It’s not working and it’s an outdated model that is headed for its demise anyway . As others have pointed out , the MX format just doesn’t work for networks and to make it work would require massive changes that are completely unacceptable to the core fans . The MXGP streaming model is the way to go .



Combining the SX and MX series into one series might work to help the nationals but I’m not convinced the SX series has motivation to do it .
6
3
ML512
Posts
16898
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
7/8/2022 7:40am
My original post has been updated with an open letter from DC in regards to the situation. It was sent out this morning.
3
mxracer828
Posts
212
Joined
5/23/2020
Location
Lake Elsinore, CA US
7/8/2022 7:46am
Watching was such a disappointment and trying to cancel mav tv is even more of a pain in the ass. As a 44 year old that loves motoand been riding my entire life,I’ll just get the motos of YouTube and hope next year is much better.
2
Silas444
Posts
638
Joined
5/23/2015
Location
Mid-state, ME US
7/8/2022 7:53am
Silas444 wrote:
There's only one way to keep outdoor motocross alive in the US, and that's by merging it with the supercross series. Why no one admits this...
There's only one way to keep outdoor motocross alive in the US, and that's by merging it with the supercross series. Why no one admits this, I don't know, but it's painfully obvious to me. So then, WHY NOT create a single championship? The series could start in September on Labor Day at Red Bud, then go to Spring Creek, then Unadilla, then Southwick, then Thunder Valley, then Washougal; and then finish off with ten more races indoors once the snow flies. A 16 race series - perfect. Eliminate Pala, eliminate Anaheim 3,4,5,and 6, eliminate Atlanta and maybe one other indoor event - and there you go - you're all set. The riders would no longer need to melt in the blistering summer heat, they'd no longer suffer from burnout as they'd get the summer off, and we'd stop the "indoor specialists" from completely taking over (which otherwise, they will).

It would be great to watch, great to attend, and it would ensure the sport's future viability. So simple.

Hello? Hello? Yup, still no one listening.
That may be the dumbest suggestion I’ve ever read here and that’s saying a lot.
Please, oh great moto-oracle, do expound, so that I may put my hapless curiosity aside and revel in your cerebral virtuosity.
3
5
garasaki
Posts
208
Joined
1/20/2021
Location
Mount Vernon, IA US
7/8/2022 8:15am
I gotta say, I really appreciate the way DC has handled this over the course of the last several days.

He has not been defensive about the situation. He's been very transparent.

He's laid out the path that brought us here (which seems pretty logical).

He's laid out the failure as it occured. He's laid out what we hope is a path forward.

He has not minimized the problems nor has he promised an amazing solution that will solve every problem.

Thanks DC! It's been a good year of racing.

Here's hoping to better ways to watch pro motocross!
9
5
tek14
Posts
4905
Joined
1/26/2014
Location
Vantaa FI
7/8/2022 8:36am
Cant really see 2023 work any better... Just go have look MXGP that is stream based and sells service to some TV channels.
1
2
7/8/2022 8:50am
i appreciate the candor, and thanks for the interview, ML.

My only criticism I've said since the beginning is that he SHOULD have gotten in front of this earlier and publicly. He lost a lot of goodwill with the moto community, regardless if it was justified or not. He shoulda come out after week 1 and at least said SOMETHING about what was going on so that we could have seen that he was working hard to remedy things. Because his silence on everything just let people run rampant with their frustration as well as their confidence with the future of the series in general.

Regardless, that's why I don't run MX Sports and he does.
8
8

Post a reply to: Davey Coombs Interview (Updated with Open Letter)

The Latest