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Looking upstream at the ore grades, one can estimate the typical quantity of rock that must be extracted from the earth and processed to yield the pure minerals needed to fabricate that single battery:
• Lithium brines typically contain less than 0.1% lithium, so that entails some 25,000 pounds of brines to get the 25 pounds of pure lithium.(d)
• Cobalt ore grades average about 0.1%, thus nearly 30,000 pounds of ore.(e)
• Nickel ore grades average about 1%, thus about 6,000 pounds of ore.(f)
• Graphite ore is typically 10%, thus about 1,000 pounds per battery.(g)
• Copper at about 0.6% in the ore, thus about 25,000 pounds of ore per battery.(h)
In total then, acquiring just these five elements to produce the 1,000-pound EV battery requires mining about 90,000 pounds of ore. To properly account for all of the earth moved though—which is relevant to the overall environmental footprint, and mining machinery energy use—one needs to estimate the overburden, or the materials first dug up to get to the ore. Depending on ore type and location, overburden ranges from about 3 to 20 tons of earth removed to access each ton of ore.(i)
This means that accessing about 90,000 pounds of ore requires digging and moving between 200,000 and over 1,500,000 pounds of earth—a rough average of more than 500,000 pounds per battery. The precise number will vary for different battery chemistry formulations, and because different regions have widely variable ore grades. It bears noting that this total material footprint does not include the large quantities of materials and chemicals used to process and refine all the various ores. Nor have we counted other materials used when compared with a conventional car, such as replacing steel with aluminum to offset the weight penalty of the battery, or the supply chain for rare earth elements used in electric motors (e.g., neodymium, dysprosium).(j) Also excluded from this tally: the related, but non-battery, electrical systems in an EV use some 300% more overall copper used compared with a conventional automobile.(k)
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/mines-minerals-and-green-energy-rea…
Oh btw, source check real quick, seems like a great place to find your skewed intel:
"The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research is a conservative 501 non-profit American think tank focused on domestic policy and urban affairs"
"The Manhattan Institute is funded largely by major corporations and conservative foundations"
"(funding) Thirty-three percent came from Fortune 500 corporations, chiefly insurance companies and pharmaceutical and chemical manufacturers including $50,000-plus each from Aetna and State From Insurance and $15,000-plus each from Prudential, Exxon, RJR Nabisco, Philip Morris, Bristol-Myers and Pfizer"
etc.
Think and feel how you want, obviously, but you dont know anything and are not 1% smarter than anyone else in here nor at Kawi or Stark.
Funny how some MX folk can be so against efforts that may keep riding areas open. Or even if you dont care about that - new brands investing tons of money and bringing another choice in dirtbike to the market.
Please tell me in my previous post where I claimed to know anything or claimed to be 1% smarter than anyone?
Keeping riding areas open has nothing to do with my complaint. I think I mentioned that EV has a place, but it does not to need to replace our whole sport, it can be its own class, series, whatever. But the whole issue is the push to go 100% electric. It's going to hurt you, me, and others. It's not about riding in the big picture of things. It's about having access to affordable energy and living in a safe, yet modern world.
But thank you for your permission to think and feel how I want; I will continue to do that. And you're allowed to think how you want. But you won't find me calling you names or questioning your intelligence. Again as mentioned, let's have discussions, and name-calling or trying to use childish comments is not how you accomplish anything.
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chasetwo79 mentioned indoor, electric-only tracks. Can you imagine riding an indoor supercross track 10 minutes from your house? I'd be there 2-3 times a week.
https://youtu.be/pB7Nxbz2AB4
Lots of good info in there!
- At 37:00 Dylan Woodcock talks about how much battery he used riding Supercross on the Stark. Sounds like it could compete tomorrow.
- Funny, when they talked about what they didn’t like about it: no complaints about how it rides, but about the phone on the bar pad. That’s it!
- Laptimes where also interesting because they could compare back to back with other 450s. Dylan Woodcock was 6 sec a lap faster than on the Husky, which is what he is racing at the moment.
If you’re on the fence of buying one, listen to it. Removed the last of my doubts. I‘m going to order one.
Edit: Just ordered mine!
Whiskey throttle on an ebike will be spectacular
You could apply as much power as you want to the windings, but if it isn't switched by the digital speed controller, the motor would just lock harder in a stationary position until it is literally in flames.
Pit Row
Point being, this is the ultimate in linear power......and WT will be fun to watch
You want to set it to revlimit at exactly 7499.76 rpm because 7500.00 is too high? No problem. It won't (and can't) do anything else, unless an external force is applied. Try that with air-fuel mixtures.
But converse of that precision is there is no: "just turn the idle screw a quarter turn, see if you like it."
In the case of a foot brake an electronic clutch lever could be added.
I've never heard of anyone getting electrocuted while riding an electric vehicle, bike or car.
I make a living as a heavy equipment operator of VERY expensive machines, and my skepticism about new and immature technologies is based on self-preservation. More complicated than an e-dirtbike, but the principles are the same.
Ever hear that old warning "don't buy anything V1.0"?
Interesting and hilarious comments, and some high-level expert input so far. Some PRACTICAL questions that need to be answered before I will join the herd:
1) "Zero maintenance".
The Varg uses KYB suspension, just like Yamahas, Betas, and a few others. Did KYB invent a new type of magical suspension that doesn't need oil, fork seals, springs, O-rings, air valves etc? How about the chassis? Swingarm bearings machined from unicorn bone that doesn't need grease? Steering head bearings made from self-lubricating unobtanium ? How about the wheel bearings? Tyres don't wear or flatten? Spokes don't go loose? Rims don't bend from 3-story landings? Chains don't stretch? Sprockets don't wear? Guess them handlebars don't bend when you ragdoll over a big triple, eh? Grips made from soft Teflon? All that because the motor doesn't burn premix?
Just because you don't have to do top ends like on a 125cc 2T, doesn't mean it's "zero maintenance", ya dunce.
2) Range.
Probably the #1 concern, as with......Teslas, ePorsches, eBMWs etc. In cities (or on MX tracks) not an issue, an electricity source is probably close by. Baja? Haha.
This topic has been beaten to death and will continue to be, so I'm not wasting bandwidth on it.
"Storage" technology ie. BATTERIES lags far behind generating technology, ask any expert.
3) Cost.
Geez......I thought it might be $12K. From what people have posted, closer to 15K?
Ask DB, MXA, anybody you want.........the sport has been sustained for the last 20 years by the geezer riders who can afford to spend that much on toys. I have 14 dirtbikes from 1978-2020, I spend lotsa $$ on them........but I refuse to pay 15K for one. Wanna bet how many other geezers feel the same?
If ya haven't figured it out, the dirtbike industry is 100% dependent on bike sales (+aftermarket, gear, fuel, parts etc), having 100K more iphone babies WATCHING won't sustain it.
4) "Save the planet".
Sure.........visualize (auralize?) 500 or 800 generators at Glen Helen every Saturday, all day.........but at least the bikes are silent
Minerals and resources.........someone posted an explanation of volume of dirt moved to produce one ton of XYZ ore. My father and brother are/were engineers in the gold mining industry, and the numbers are RIDICULOUS. Literally 1000s of tons of rock dug out of the earth to produce ONE OUNCE of gold. The precious metals used to make these batteries, not much difference. Not to mention, there's not NEARLY as much of it as gold or silver or coal.....not enough to go around, considering there will be 10 BILLION EVs on the road by 2030
Dead batteries, what happens to them? It's NASTY hazardous waste, you can't just throw it out with the vegetable peels and beer cans. DEAFENING silence on that topic, NOBODY wants to discuss it. Why?
5) Riding area conflicts.
MX tracks? No worries. They put peewees and 85s on the track with Tomac and da boyz at Glen Helen, I'm sure it will work itself out
New tracks? If you're in an area where tracks are shut down because of noise, the property value is such that 50 or 200 open acres to build a track, you're talking $$MILLIONS. It's similar to airports in that regard. Don't plan on it
Trails and MTB parks? Lots of conflicts between hikers and equestrians vs. eMTBers already. That will only escalate as dumbasses reckon "hey this thing is silent, I can ride anywhere". Result? BANNED.
6) Startup company.
ATK, Cannondale, Buell, Husaberg, Cooper, Yankee, Venti, Titan, Roehr...........and Alta. Look 'em up, 'nuff said.
7) Gen Z
The iphone fecesbook generation, look all around you.
Witness the comments about "can't wait for the 2T and 4T sound to be gone so I can talk on my phone"
8) Electrical infrastructure and supply.
"Chargers at MX tracks"
Ya sure, stand by, we'll lay a 12-inch cable 130 miles to the new track in Death Valley that gets 96 visitors a year.
Glen Helen? Perris? More feasible, but don't forget, the Great Police State of Kaliforniya is having rolling blackouts like in Zimbabwe and Congo for lack of generating capacity and obsolete crumbling infrastructure. I'm sure installing chargers at MX tracks is a top priority, CALPOWER will be there next week with bulldozers and shit
9) SBD.
"Silent but deadly".
I sat at sidewalk cafes in a certain European city known for its wines and cheese last summer, watching idiots with obviously NO bike experience zip down sidewalks and through traffic at 30 mph, having a grand old time. I almost got taken out by one such dipshit, he almost hit me full-on but I jumped and he only hit my arm. I wanted to beat his small brain in, but couldn't catch him.
It's the new IN thing.....free communal e-scooters, they're all over almost every US city. (Most are f**ked up by vandals and bums, but hey, it's only tax money, right?) Friend of mine was killed on that ridiculously powerful one that came out about 2 years ago, he crashed without a helmet and smashed his noggin.
Remember ATVs? those 3-wheeler things that sucked kids' legs under the wheels? They were BANNED after a few deaths. Wait till some pimple farmer kills a geezer hiker on a trail in a city park, or runs over someone's 3-year old.............
Like with EVs and self-driving vehicles, there are many insurmountable obstacles. In cities and densely populated areas, they're an excellent idea and 100% practical. Outside cities or in rural areas? Useless. How about in Africa, or Russia?
As a silent backyard racer? Hundreds mate. As long as you don't have 30 of your pals over on Sundays and have races and drink beer and play Metallica loud, of course.
I'm hoping the noisy iphone hype will give way to practical reasonable attitudes at some point. EVs can't and won't replace ICE any time soon, no matter what the TV says. But I fear ebikes will split the already small dirtbike crowd into even more factions, easily isolated and stomped out by government and green nazis.
Luckily I won't be around, or interested, if/when all dirtbiking is 100% silent....ie, extinct.
At least the „filled the engine with water because I forgot the air filter cover“ storys will be gone.
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