GNCC Championship down to the last race

WDSRCR
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WDSRCR 10/19/2021 11:22am
10/19/2021 11:22am
I talked to one of the guys involved in the incident at the NEPG race this past weekend and it sounds like there was a team guy pointing everyone to the bad line and when the KTM guys came to it, he pointed them the other direction while it was being filmed...
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Roostermx58
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Roostermx58 10/19/2021 11:56am
10/19/2021 11:56am
WDSRCR wrote:
I talked to one of the guys involved in the incident at the NEPG race this past weekend and it sounds like there was a team...
I talked to one of the guys involved in the incident at the NEPG race this past weekend and it sounds like there was a team guy pointing everyone to the bad line and when the KTM guys came to it, he pointed them the other direction while it was being filmed...
I have not been able to find a link to that video? Does anyone know where it is or is GNCC the only one that has it?
fins227
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fins227 10/19/2021 12:55pm
10/19/2021 12:55pm
WDSRCR wrote:
I talked to one of the guys involved in the incident at the NEPG race this past weekend and it sounds like there was a team...
I talked to one of the guys involved in the incident at the NEPG race this past weekend and it sounds like there was a team guy pointing everyone to the bad line and when the KTM guys came to it, he pointed them the other direction while it was being filmed...
Roostermx58 wrote:
I have not been able to find a link to that video? Does anyone know where it is or is GNCC the only one that has...
I have not been able to find a link to that video? Does anyone know where it is or is GNCC the only one that has it?
They said there’s three videos, but they aren’t available. Husky is supposedly the ones that were pointing the lines, recording, and protesting. Sounds like an attempt to not make the team tactics obvious.

In reality these guys did cut the track, it’s also true that YAMAHA would be more likely to win without these shenanigans.
fins227
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fins227 10/19/2021 1:05pm
10/19/2021 1:05pm
It’s also kinda lame that these courses get laid out with these super short dog legs, trying to milk mileage. It’s no surprise that these corners get cut, amateurs especially are looking for every advantage, I’ve seen guys in the woods doin all sorts of things to develop cheater lines the day before then they’re mom will stand in front of the line all day so Bolt-on won’t catch them lol
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LungButter
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LungButter 10/19/2021 9:14pm
10/19/2021 9:14pm
KTM should be ashamed that they have to stoop to this level. It’s embarrassing.

Kelley might end up with the #1 plate but he has been Baylor’s bitch all year.
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creature654 10/20/2021 3:07am
10/20/2021 3:07am
LungButter wrote:
KTM should be ashamed that they have to stoop to this level. It’s embarrassing. Kelley might end up with the #1 plate but he has been...
KTM should be ashamed that they have to stoop to this level. It’s embarrassing.

Kelley might end up with the #1 plate but he has been Baylor’s bitch all year.
Yeh he was really stus bitch last week when Ben won the race right? It pays to be on the best team and the best bike. BluCru has plenty of money, and riders in all classes, if they cared as much about the championship as ktm, then maybe they should have payed for a few more spotters out there.
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agn5008
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agn5008 10/20/2021 4:17am
10/20/2021 4:17am
LungButter wrote:
KTM should be ashamed that they have to stoop to this level. It’s embarrassing. Kelley might end up with the #1 plate but he has been...
KTM should be ashamed that they have to stoop to this level. It’s embarrassing.

Kelley might end up with the #1 plate but he has been Baylor’s bitch all year.
I guess Ben should just give the number 1 plate to Stu then.

We all have our favorite riders and want them to win. But to diminish the other bad ass professionals is very juvenile. If Ben wins the title then he deserves it. If Stu wins it then he deserves it. It’s that simple
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LungButter
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LungButter 10/20/2021 4:52am
10/20/2021 4:52am
agn5008 wrote:
I guess Ben should just give the number 1 plate to Stu then. We all have our favorite riders and want them to win. But to...
I guess Ben should just give the number 1 plate to Stu then.

We all have our favorite riders and want them to win. But to diminish the other bad ass professionals is very juvenile. If Ben wins the title then he deserves it. If Stu wins it then he deserves it. It’s that simple
If Ben wins it all it took was Stu to miss a whole race and for KTM to bait Stu into cheating while protecting Ben.

No doubt Kelley is a bad ass but if he “deserved” the title Antti wouldn’t have to play dirty pool to help him get it, he woulda won more races and did it on his own….
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Monk
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Monk 10/20/2021 4:58am
10/20/2021 4:58am
agn5008 wrote:
I guess Ben should just give the number 1 plate to Stu then. We all have our favorite riders and want them to win. But to...
I guess Ben should just give the number 1 plate to Stu then.

We all have our favorite riders and want them to win. But to diminish the other bad ass professionals is very juvenile. If Ben wins the title then he deserves it. If Stu wins it then he deserves it. It’s that simple
LungButter wrote:
If Ben wins it all it took was Stu to miss a whole race and for KTM to bait Stu into cheating while protecting Ben. No...
If Ben wins it all it took was Stu to miss a whole race and for KTM to bait Stu into cheating while protecting Ben.

No doubt Kelley is a bad ass but if he “deserved” the title Antti wouldn’t have to play dirty pool to help him get it, he woulda won more races and did it on his own….
All I read is a lot of 'woulda, coulda, shoulda'....
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LungButter
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LungButter 10/20/2021 5:03am
10/20/2021 5:03am
creature654 wrote:
Yeh he was really stus bitch last week when Ben won the race right? It pays to be on the best team and the best bike...
Yeh he was really stus bitch last week when Ben won the race right? It pays to be on the best team and the best bike. BluCru has plenty of money, and riders in all classes, if they cared as much about the championship as ktm, then maybe they should have payed for a few more spotters out there.
Oh my bad, I thought it was about being the fastest dirt bike racer not about having the “best team” to help you cheat to win the championship. I guess when you gave up a full race points lead by getting beat down all year that’s when being on the “best team” comes into play….
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bh
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bh 10/20/2021 5:51am
10/20/2021 5:51am
Really it’s fine imo for them to be greasy like this but it should go both ways. They should have docked them for the team tactics at high point last year. It just seams like when it comes time for the big decisions it always goes ktms way. But I wouldn’t say I’m shocked. 80 percent of the pro guys are under the ktm umbrella. If ktm wasn’t there there really wouldn’t be much of a pro class. Just another reason we need more support from other brands.

Stew would still have a fair chance at winning it, but with all the ktm supported riders out there it’s going to be like Vegas a few years ago where nobody wanted to pass dungey out there.

the really the messed up thing about it is Ben had a great shot at winning it fair and square. Dude could’ve went out and won Ironman by 2 minutes and nobody would’ve said a word. you just hate to see him be put in a situation like this because his team manager is a tad greasy. And you know the stew diehards are going to go after the guy.
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mvd61
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mvd61 10/20/2021 5:52am
10/20/2021 5:52am
creature654 wrote:
Yeh he was really stus bitch last week when Ben won the race right? It pays to be on the best team and the best bike...
Yeh he was really stus bitch last week when Ben won the race right? It pays to be on the best team and the best bike. BluCru has plenty of money, and riders in all classes, if they cared as much about the championship as ktm, then maybe they should have payed for a few more spotters out there.
LungButter wrote:
Oh my bad, I thought it was about being the fastest dirt bike racer not about having the “best team” to help you cheat to win...
Oh my bad, I thought it was about being the fastest dirt bike racer not about having the “best team” to help you cheat to win the championship. I guess when you gave up a full race points lead by getting beat down all year that’s when being on the “best team” comes into play….
LungButter gets it.
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Dixon893
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Dixon893 10/20/2021 5:59am
10/20/2021 5:59am
Remember the 2019 world endurocross championship when Haakers team mate intentionally blocked for him for the championship win over Webb. Xc is a team sport, go race for the win without a pit man gassing for you and changing parts mid race if you brake, its hard. KTM has taken team to the next, KTM/Husky/GG have so many spotters apparently not always for what you think.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 10/20/2021 6:20am
10/20/2021 6:20am
WDSRCR wrote:
I talked to one of the guys involved in the incident at the NEPG race this past weekend and it sounds like there was a team...
I talked to one of the guys involved in the incident at the NEPG race this past weekend and it sounds like there was a team guy pointing everyone to the bad line and when the KTM guys came to it, he pointed them the other direction while it was being filmed...
Roostermx58 wrote:
I have not been able to find a link to that video? Does anyone know where it is or is GNCC the only one that has...
I have not been able to find a link to that video? Does anyone know where it is or is GNCC the only one that has it?
fins227 wrote:
They said there’s three videos, but they aren’t available. Husky is supposedly the ones that were pointing the lines, recording, and protesting. Sounds like an attempt...
They said there’s three videos, but they aren’t available. Husky is supposedly the ones that were pointing the lines, recording, and protesting. Sounds like an attempt to not make the team tactics obvious.

In reality these guys did cut the track, it’s also true that YAMAHA would be more likely to win without these shenanigans.
I'm not well versed in GNCC tactics, but if I'm on a Yamaha and a Husky guy points me to a certain line I'm going to assume there is a punji pit with alligators in that direction. Is it common for the spotters back in the woods to "help" riders not on their team with line choices?
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bh
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bh 10/20/2021 7:50am
10/20/2021 7:50am
Roostermx58 wrote:
I have not been able to find a link to that video? Does anyone know where it is or is GNCC the only one that has...
I have not been able to find a link to that video? Does anyone know where it is or is GNCC the only one that has it?
fins227 wrote:
They said there’s three videos, but they aren’t available. Husky is supposedly the ones that were pointing the lines, recording, and protesting. Sounds like an attempt...
They said there’s three videos, but they aren’t available. Husky is supposedly the ones that were pointing the lines, recording, and protesting. Sounds like an attempt to not make the team tactics obvious.

In reality these guys did cut the track, it’s also true that YAMAHA would be more likely to win without these shenanigans.
GrapeApe wrote:
I'm not well versed in GNCC tactics, but if I'm on a Yamaha and a Husky guy points me to a certain line I'm going to...
I'm not well versed in GNCC tactics, but if I'm on a Yamaha and a Husky guy points me to a certain line I'm going to assume there is a punji pit with alligators in that direction. Is it common for the spotters back in the woods to "help" riders not on their team with line choices?
From the times I’ve watched they usually don’t point any lines to other pros not under their umbrella. However they will point goons like me into other lines to keep “their line” clean/open.
Erek_Kudla
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Erek_Kudla 10/20/2021 11:46am
10/20/2021 11:46am Edited Date/Time 10/20/2021 11:51am
Shredder wrote:
They said you got twice the points if you did it more than once, so maybe that's it?
SPYGUY wrote:
Riders were docked one position, points-wise, for each time they took the cut. Baylor was docked 4 points since that is the gap from 2nd to...
Riders were docked one position, points-wise, for each time they took the cut. Baylor was docked 4 points since that is the gap from 2nd to 3rd. Past 5th place, there is only a 1-point difference between finishes, which is why several riders were only docked 1 point.

As I said before, it's very tough to write a rules and penalties for these types of situations that cover every scenario perfectly because in this type of racing, every scenario is different. I understand why the rule was written this way, I just don't think it works all that well in practice.

I'd almost think that perhaps a 30-second penalty for such a minor infraction such as this would be more reasonable, but then what if the cut was 45 feet next time? It's hard to write black and white rules for a gray world.
nail on the head.

the problem is if you say "it's a 1 point penalty" or "it's a 30 second penalty" then riders will start utilizing the penalties to their advantage.

"I'm only going to lose 1 point so i might as well just cut" or "I'm only going to lose 30 seconds so I might as well just cut"

In addition to the precedence already being set from last year when Ben Kelley received the same penalty for the same thing at the same location and it moved him from first to second giving Stu Baylor the win. I


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Schlava
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Schlava 10/20/2021 12:55pm
10/20/2021 12:55pm
If Ben wins then none of this matters!
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LungButter
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LungButter 10/20/2021 1:22pm
10/20/2021 1:22pm
Schlava wrote:
If Ben wins then none of this matters!
Fact.

And he very well could, dude is bad ass.

That's why it's so lame that KTM stooped to this level.....again.....

It's laughable that only the KTM guys didn't get docked and it was for a 6' infraction. Who's to say that an arrow wasn't removed, moved etc. ??

Basically every single other XC1 rider thought this line was alright/took it and somehow the KTM guys didn't take it and nothing fishy happened?

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LungButter
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LungButter 10/20/2021 1:26pm
10/20/2021 1:26pm
fins227 wrote:
They said there’s three videos, but they aren’t available. Husky is supposedly the ones that were pointing the lines, recording, and protesting. Sounds like an attempt...
They said there’s three videos, but they aren’t available. Husky is supposedly the ones that were pointing the lines, recording, and protesting. Sounds like an attempt to not make the team tactics obvious.

In reality these guys did cut the track, it’s also true that YAMAHA would be more likely to win without these shenanigans.
So Husky filed a protest that ended up with both of their XC1 riders getting docked?
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bh
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bh 10/20/2021 2:02pm
10/20/2021 2:02pm
Who’s going to Ironman? If stew wins and Ben gets second there could be war in the pits or at the finish line lol.

Has anyone ever been booed at the podium at a gncc? If stew wins and Ben gets second, Ben could be the first, obviously undeserved. But these stew fans are vicious lol. I’m really interested to see what happens, wish I was going.
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fins227
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fins227 10/20/2021 2:11pm
10/20/2021 2:11pm
Roostermx58 wrote:
I have not been able to find a link to that video? Does anyone know where it is or is GNCC the only one that has...
I have not been able to find a link to that video? Does anyone know where it is or is GNCC the only one that has it?
fins227 wrote:
They said there’s three videos, but they aren’t available. Husky is supposedly the ones that were pointing the lines, recording, and protesting. Sounds like an attempt...
They said there’s three videos, but they aren’t available. Husky is supposedly the ones that were pointing the lines, recording, and protesting. Sounds like an attempt to not make the team tactics obvious.

In reality these guys did cut the track, it’s also true that YAMAHA would be more likely to win without these shenanigans.
GrapeApe wrote:
I'm not well versed in GNCC tactics, but if I'm on a Yamaha and a Husky guy points me to a certain line I'm going to...
I'm not well versed in GNCC tactics, but if I'm on a Yamaha and a Husky guy points me to a certain line I'm going to assume there is a punji pit with alligators in that direction. Is it common for the spotters back in the woods to "help" riders not on their team with line choices?
The thing is, kailub is so honorable he wouldn’t want these games to be played, he was also so good they didn’t need to be played. So for the last ten years ktm team members pointed lines for all the top guys and no one second guessed it.
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rohleder644
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rohleder644 10/20/2021 5:00pm
10/20/2021 5:00pm
There were plenty of KTM shenanigans reported during the KR557 reign
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fins227
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fins227 10/20/2021 6:03pm
10/20/2021 6:03pm
rohleder644 wrote:
There were plenty of KTM shenanigans reported during the KR557 reign
Enlighten us
mvd61
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mvd61 10/20/2021 6:06pm
10/20/2021 6:06pm
rohleder644 wrote:
There were plenty of KTM shenanigans reported during the KR557 reign
fins227 wrote:
Enlighten us
Last year Toth was leading and was stopped on the track with a 1/2 mile lead and was made to wait for KR to take lead with a broken shifter. Thad been fucked over plenty too.
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JoeWV
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JoeWV 10/21/2021 6:33am
10/21/2021 6:33am Edited Date/Time 10/21/2021 6:35am
Axell Hodges announced he’ll be back this year for Ironman. I believe he went last year because of a bet with Stew. Wonder if that’s still on? I kinda expected to see KR do a comeback race too, maybe he’ll line up somewhere in this one?

Will be my first race at Ironman, really looking forward to it, except they moved my class to 8am! Gonna be tough getting moving around that early, haha.
LungButter
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LungButter 10/21/2021 7:12am
10/21/2021 7:12am
Jeffery_Cutty wrote:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-pipe-podcast/id1295853841?… For the podcast people. Check this out
Some main points from this:

- The protest was not filed by a Rider but rather two Team Managers. GNCC rules state any protests must be filed by a Rider in the same class.

- The protest was not filed within the time frame of GNCC rules but rather several hours past the allotted time.

- There are NUMEROUS examples of the same rule being broken in the past with penalties that are different than the ones handed out this time.
- None of these other instances took 6 DAYS to resolve like this one, they were all basically taken care of at the
track within minutes/hours


So per the podcast, this begs the question, if the rules are so important that a bunch of people are going to be penalized for going 6' further off course than allowed (while not gaining any significant advantage).....why are the rest of the rules such as the timeframe and rider filing the protest not important? How can GNCC just forget those rules but enforce the 25' rule? Don't all the rules count?

This whole thing is bullshit and complete favoritism to KTM just like last year when they blatantly got away with Team Tactics which are a rule violation.....

I hope for Ben's sake he either wins the race this weekend or finishes more than 8pts behind Stu because if Stu goes 1 and Ben goes 2 and Ben gets the title.....well, that will be a championship that forever has an *

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JoeWV
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JoeWV 10/22/2021 6:15am
10/22/2021 6:15am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2021 6:16am
Lookin like it could be a mudder on Sunday. Hoping the rain holds off but not looking good.
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wrc777
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wrc777 10/22/2021 7:05am
10/22/2021 7:05am
JoeWV wrote:
Lookin like it could be a mudder on Sunday. Hoping the rain holds off but not looking good.
Looks like not just rain but a lot of rain.
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MelonFan123
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MelonFan123 10/22/2021 10:57am
10/22/2021 10:57am
Baylor posted a long message on his IG. Dude went out of his way to make sure Ben didn't get any of the blame/hate for this as they are good friends and he has no animosity toward him. He didn't name names but it's obviously KTM team members he's upset with.

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