Generational talent

cjg23307
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cjg23307 7/20/2021 6:12pm
7/20/2021 6:12pm
Park Boys wrote:
We have heard the Generational talent and is Jett one on Pulp and Main event moto podcasts for months now and IMO it’s a no brainer...
We have heard the Generational talent and is Jett one on Pulp and Main event moto podcasts for months now and IMO it’s a no brainer that he is. To me Generational is different then saying he’s an “all-time” talent like Stew. If your gonna use Stewart is your statistical standard for the first few years of a career then everyone fails, even RC to an extent. Stew and RC are All-timers. But what’s generational? IMO in SX/MX careers are short, this sport spits guys out within 10 years usually. So maybe every 5-6 years in this sport. 15 years in this sport is an entirety. The last sure fire “generational” talents all came up within a couple years IMO with Roczen, Tomac and Herlings they all fail to match Stewart too. You could make an argument that AC9 was but became injured to early to really excel and Prado would be your other argument. But what Jetts doing at his age only happens with a couple guys every 5-6 years if that. I think he is, what does Vital say?

Also been generational don’t guarantee anything, being injury free is the number 1 thing among others. To me generational means you’re a teenager and you’re already “elite”.
I agree with park boys, he never said he was Stewart or rc, he said he was damn good for his age, if he stays healthy he’s going to be dangerous in the years to come.
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elsinore
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elsinore 7/20/2021 6:12pm
7/20/2021 6:12pm
Park Boys wrote:
Here is the complete list of riders who have won multiple SX and MX races at the age of 17. Bradshaw, RC, Pastrana, Stew and Jett...
Here is the complete list of riders who have won multiple SX and MX races at the age of 17.

Bradshaw, RC, Pastrana, Stew and Jett

It’s been nearly 20 years since this has happened.

Bradshaw was ridiculous at 17 btw.

Again not saying he is gonna be all time but he’s sure in some... talented company.
Hmm, I don't see Marty Smith on your list. Now that is the definition of generational talent. Please pump the brakes on this Jett shit.
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decano51
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decano51 7/20/2021 6:21pm
7/20/2021 6:21pm
As mentioned above.. There is a short list of riders who have won races at age 17. considering he was the youngest racer to win a MXGP at 14. Turned up at lorettas and showed he was the real deal. turned up to monster up and showed he could ride SX. then went to AUS SX and showed he can race against the more experienced riders.
The damn kid has traveled the world racing and showcased himself all by the age of 17!

Rookie year made rookie mistakes. but to be as competitive as he is at his age is what stands out.
He shouldn't be compared to any one. He is the new era of kids. and the first of the new era to have this personality that was lost for some time.
He isnt a JS259,TP199 or a RC4. But when you look at them 3 alone, even they are all different.


Most kids are not going pro until they are 20. Jetts going into his 3rd year and will be only 18. now with new rules with going pro, he is the last we will see of young riders coming through at the young age.


and as discussed above.. TP199 was an absolute talent in MX... from MXON to Outdoor titles to his rookie 125 year. even him battling RC4 in the 250 class. I 100% believe he would of won a Premier SX title if he chose to stay in Racing
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Park Boys
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Park Boys 7/20/2021 7:10pm
7/20/2021 7:10pm
Park Boys wrote:
We have heard the Generational talent and is Jett one on Pulp and Main event moto podcasts for months now and IMO it’s a no brainer...
We have heard the Generational talent and is Jett one on Pulp and Main event moto podcasts for months now and IMO it’s a no brainer that he is. To me Generational is different then saying he’s an “all-time” talent like Stew. If your gonna use Stewart is your statistical standard for the first few years of a career then everyone fails, even RC to an extent. Stew and RC are All-timers. But what’s generational? IMO in SX/MX careers are short, this sport spits guys out within 10 years usually. So maybe every 5-6 years in this sport. 15 years in this sport is an entirety. The last sure fire “generational” talents all came up within a couple years IMO with Roczen, Tomac and Herlings they all fail to match Stewart too. You could make an argument that AC9 was but became injured to early to really excel and Prado would be your other argument. But what Jetts doing at his age only happens with a couple guys every 5-6 years if that. I think he is, what does Vital say?

Also been generational don’t guarantee anything, being injury free is the number 1 thing among others. To me generational means you’re a teenager and you’re already “elite”.
cjg23307 wrote:
I agree with park boys, he never said he was Stewart or rc, he said he was damn good for his age, if he stays healthy...
I agree with park boys, he never said he was Stewart or rc, he said he was damn good for his age, if he stays healthy he’s going to be dangerous in the years to come.
Your reading comprehension is vastly superior to many who have posted on this thread.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 7/21/2021 5:00am
7/21/2021 5:00am Edited Date/Time 7/21/2021 5:04am
I listened to that Pulp segment with JT and Blair and the issue is that people have different definitions of what generational talent means.

In my mind, saying that Jett is an generational talent isn't the same as saying he is on JS7's level. It means that Jett (or whatever other rider you might talk about) is the best or one of the best talents of this current generation and that if he fulfills his potential, he will be a multitime champion. A talent capable of dominating or being the most winning rider of that generation.

This whole discussion is a dead end because people have an ocean between them when defining what generational talent means.
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jemcee
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jemcee 7/21/2021 5:21am
7/21/2021 5:21am
I can never really compare eras or stuff like that but I do think 2 strokes were better at exposing elite skill where I think 4 strokes even the playing field between exceptional, gifted and very good riders so it's harder to spot the 'generational talent'
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mx 219
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mx 219 7/21/2021 5:30am
7/21/2021 5:30am
crusty_xx wrote:
Dude had to move to a different continent twice before turning 15 and is a multiple SX and MX race winner (and possible national champ) 2...
Dude had to move to a different continent twice before turning 15 and is a multiple SX and MX race winner (and possible national champ) 2 years later and people are still waiting to see if he's any good? Dizzy
No doubt he is good, but he isn't on par with Stew. Maybe he will get more dominant as he ages, but right now I think everyone can calm down a little bit.

If Justin Cooper wouldn't keep making mistakes this would be his title for the taking. Right now I think Jett wins the title, but if Cooper could keep it together I think the odds would be better in his favor. Jett better get some better starts though.
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crusty_xx 7/21/2021 6:10am
7/21/2021 6:10am
crusty_xx wrote:
Dude had to move to a different continent twice before turning 15 and is a multiple SX and MX race winner (and possible national champ) 2...
Dude had to move to a different continent twice before turning 15 and is a multiple SX and MX race winner (and possible national champ) 2 years later and people are still waiting to see if he's any good? Dizzy
mx 219 wrote:
No doubt he is good, but he isn't on par with Stew. Maybe he will get more dominant as he ages, but right now I think...
No doubt he is good, but he isn't on par with Stew. Maybe he will get more dominant as he ages, but right now I think everyone can calm down a little bit.

If Justin Cooper wouldn't keep making mistakes this would be his title for the taking. Right now I think Jett wins the title, but if Cooper could keep it together I think the odds would be better in his favor. Jett better get some better starts though.
I'm not sure anyone is saying he's on par with Stew. I'm certainly not
But it's also not really comparable. We don't know how much better he would be had he lived and trained his whole live in the US.
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SteveUrchin
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SteveUrchin 7/21/2021 6:36am
7/21/2021 6:36am
Imagine if every pro rider gave out free jerseys for having the best sign lol. Out of 6 races he has one overall same with the other 5 guys that have shown just as much speed. He is fast and good but not next level because you might personally like the way he rides or his style plenty of riders can still beat him he’s not dominant or clicking off win after win.
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Crush
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Crush 7/21/2021 6:47am
7/21/2021 6:47am Edited Date/Time 7/21/2021 6:51am
I don't see how you can't say he is. It's as easy as he's head and shoulders better than everyone else his age in the world, and in the years or generation preceding, he's head and shoulders above all those guys first couple year results also...

The fact that you have to go back a generation or so to Eli/Ken/Barcia and before that RV/Canard/Dunge to see these sort of consistent results, riding and potential from a kid is icing on the cake.

I think Steve and JT are conflating generational talent with comparison, and then doing that against some of the absolute legends of the sport or even Eli or Kenny – he's not RC, he's not Eli, but he's doing a pretty good simile of those and comparatively, at the same age, he's shitting all over the Jordan Smiths, RJs, Coopers etc of the world who debuted in the years since.

To add to that too, one thing I will say is a lot of those guys got it done with sheer aggression, especially at that age, with the exception of maybe Kenny. Jett rides like he's seeing the world in slo-mo. I say his career fairs very well because of that fact. His technique and patience is pretty freaky.
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AH387
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AH387 7/21/2021 6:59am
7/21/2021 6:59am Edited Date/Time 7/21/2021 7:41am
Motofinne wrote:
I listened to that Pulp segment with JT and Blair and the issue is that people have different definitions of what generational talent means. In my...
I listened to that Pulp segment with JT and Blair and the issue is that people have different definitions of what generational talent means.

In my mind, saying that Jett is an generational talent isn't the same as saying he is on JS7's level. It means that Jett (or whatever other rider you might talk about) is the best or one of the best talents of this current generation and that if he fulfills his potential, he will be a multitime champion. A talent capable of dominating or being the most winning rider of that generation.

This whole discussion is a dead end because people have an ocean between them when defining what generational talent means.
While I somewhat agree that there is certainly some gray area of what is considered a "generational talent." But even by the definition given by OP, I still would hesitate to give him that label. It's based purely on speculation but so far the results do not show that, in my opinion. Like someone else mentioned, a healthy JMart easily has the red plate. And Cooper is the favorite to win the title. So even if we curb the RC/JS comparisons, calling Jett a generational talent is very premature. I think a more accurate way to describe him is a very promising star. And then we will see if he ends up a generational talent. There have been way too many guys coming up that were supposed to be the next big thing and never delivered. So it's crazy to hand these labels out before anything has really been accomplished.
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Denn700
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Denn700 7/21/2021 7:35am
7/21/2021 7:35am
He is a great rider but he needs to do something really special to convince me. Reed went from an 85 to a 250 two stroke and won back to back Australian Supercross championships at 16 and 17. At 18 he finished 2nd in the MXGP premier class and at 19, his rookie AMA year on a 250F, he almost swept the East series. He came from way back to almost catching Jesseman on the last lap and then he lost to Stew in the shootout.
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BobPA
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BobPA 7/21/2021 7:45am
7/21/2021 7:45am
Crush wrote:
I don't see how you can't say he is. It's as easy as he's head and shoulders better than everyone else his age in the world...
I don't see how you can't say he is. It's as easy as he's head and shoulders better than everyone else his age in the world, and in the years or generation preceding, he's head and shoulders above all those guys first couple year results also...

The fact that you have to go back a generation or so to Eli/Ken/Barcia and before that RV/Canard/Dunge to see these sort of consistent results, riding and potential from a kid is icing on the cake.

I think Steve and JT are conflating generational talent with comparison, and then doing that against some of the absolute legends of the sport or even Eli or Kenny – he's not RC, he's not Eli, but he's doing a pretty good simile of those and comparatively, at the same age, he's shitting all over the Jordan Smiths, RJs, Coopers etc of the world who debuted in the years since.

To add to that too, one thing I will say is a lot of those guys got it done with sheer aggression, especially at that age, with the exception of maybe Kenny. Jett rides like he's seeing the world in slo-mo. I say his career fairs very well because of that fact. His technique and patience is pretty freaky.
I agree about his fluid effortless style.....Sexton has the same style as well, and he finds the dirt quite a bit.
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Kanute
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Kanute 7/21/2021 7:54am
7/21/2021 7:54am
decano51 wrote:
As mentioned above.. There is a short list of riders who have won races at age 17. considering he was the youngest racer to win a...
As mentioned above.. There is a short list of riders who have won races at age 17. considering he was the youngest racer to win a MXGP at 14. Turned up at lorettas and showed he was the real deal. turned up to monster up and showed he could ride SX. then went to AUS SX and showed he can race against the more experienced riders.
The damn kid has traveled the world racing and showcased himself all by the age of 17!

Rookie year made rookie mistakes. but to be as competitive as he is at his age is what stands out.
He shouldn't be compared to any one. He is the new era of kids. and the first of the new era to have this personality that was lost for some time.
He isnt a JS259,TP199 or a RC4. But when you look at them 3 alone, even they are all different.


Most kids are not going pro until they are 20. Jetts going into his 3rd year and will be only 18. now with new rules with going pro, he is the last we will see of young riders coming through at the young age.


and as discussed above.. TP199 was an absolute talent in MX... from MXON to Outdoor titles to his rookie 125 year. even him battling RC4 in the 250 class. I 100% believe he would of won a Premier SX title if he chose to stay in Racing
Let me know when AMA pro racing has age classes.
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ZOSICK
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ZOSICK 7/21/2021 8:21am
7/21/2021 8:21am
I don't get the whole "generational talent" thing. Jett hasn't really won anything yet per say. Is he talented, yes, of course. However, so are all of the other riders. I do get that he is only 17 and that is remarkable. However, you can go down the list of riders that are a "generational talent." AC9, JS7, TP199, MA800, RV2, MC2 were all "generational. You know who wasn't a "generational talent?" How about RD5 or ET3 just to name a few. Pretty sure they did/doing ok. That being said, I can see why he is hyped up. They are going to do the same thing to Ryder D and Degan. I feel bad for these kids. If they don't do well, they are going to chew them up and spit them out.
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AH387
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AH387 7/21/2021 8:32am
7/21/2021 8:32am
ZOSICK wrote:
I don't get the whole "generational talent" thing. Jett hasn't really won anything yet per say. Is he talented, yes, of course. However, so are all...
I don't get the whole "generational talent" thing. Jett hasn't really won anything yet per say. Is he talented, yes, of course. However, so are all of the other riders. I do get that he is only 17 and that is remarkable. However, you can go down the list of riders that are a "generational talent." AC9, JS7, TP199, MA800, RV2, MC2 were all "generational. You know who wasn't a "generational talent?" How about RD5 or ET3 just to name a few. Pretty sure they did/doing ok. That being said, I can see why he is hyped up. They are going to do the same thing to Ryder D and Degan. I feel bad for these kids. If they don't do well, they are going to chew them up and spit them out.
Well said.
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USA
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USA 7/21/2021 8:44am
7/21/2021 8:44am
I think people have some recency bias here, mixed with unwavering adoration for Jett. Forkner and Sexton just came through the ranks in 2016. Now generational is going to be every 5 years?

We are imminently approaching the other Jett (Reynolds) and Ryder D being the next 'generational talents. Maybe we should move the goal posts to every 2 to 4 years now? That's how ridiculous some people sound.

Just say Jett has a very promising career ahead of him. Hell, people wrote off AC and he had more hype than Jett.

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Crush
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Crush 7/21/2021 9:15am
7/21/2021 9:15am
BobPA wrote:
I agree about his fluid effortless style.....Sexton has the same style as well, and he finds the dirt quite a bit.
Sexton might have a nice riding form on a bike but I don’t think he rides patiently at all, he looks like he’s getting after it and forcing things quite a bit.
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 7/21/2021 10:33am
7/21/2021 10:33am Edited Date/Time 7/21/2021 10:34am
Is he the best 17 year old racing pro right now? Yes.

Is he the best in the class right now? No.

I believe he will be great but he doesn’t seem to be doing anything a handful of other guys in the class can’t right now, other than appearing to be mature beyond his age. Everyone has their own definition of generational talent but I don’t think you can preemptively give someone that title until they’re clearly better than everyone else they’re racing.
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keinz
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keinz 7/21/2021 10:48am
7/21/2021 10:48am
gerg wrote:
You cant start comparing riders without comparing the fields as well. RC JS and CR only really had each other as competition. The rest of the...
You cant start comparing riders without comparing the fields as well.

RC JS and CR only really had each other as competition. The rest of the field was nowhere and as a result the generational talent back then was more flattered by lack of competition.

Current fields are riding off the coat tails of the fast 3 o 4 riders of the last generation by learning from their revolutionary riding and adopting it...plus 4ts.

The competition these days is way tighter and the gaps in timing is tighter.

If and buts and theory crafting there's no way an RC or JS is going to obliterate todays fields by 30 seconds.

FWIW I think that 250 lap times are probably approaching their limit and 450s still have a fair bit of margin left in them due to the sheer horsepower...outdoors moreso than SX.

Stop talking sense, it's Vital, for christ sake
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FerCzD
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FerCzD 7/21/2021 11:38am
7/21/2021 11:38am Edited Date/Time 7/21/2021 11:41am
Kay de Wolf might have an argument for all those saying he (Jett) is the best head and shoulders from everyone at his age. This kid is 16, racing at the highest level in MX2 and improving...
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Bacon_n_Egg'r 7/21/2021 11:52am
7/21/2021 11:52am
Colour me shocked than Daniel Blair is over-hyping a rider. I think Feld and SX desperately want Jett to be the next "generational talent" because he has personality and youth. But it's far too early to say he will be generational. People in the sport were saying more or less the same stuff with Cianciarulo in 2013 and Forkner in 2016 as well.

I do agree with JT, that Jett compares well with Roczen at about the same age. Time will tell how it all plays out.

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45ACP
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45ACP 7/21/2021 1:02pm
7/21/2021 1:02pm
ZOSICK wrote:
I don't get the whole "generational talent" thing. Jett hasn't really won anything yet per say. Is he talented, yes, of course. However, so are all...
I don't get the whole "generational talent" thing. Jett hasn't really won anything yet per say. Is he talented, yes, of course. However, so are all of the other riders. I do get that he is only 17 and that is remarkable. However, you can go down the list of riders that are a "generational talent." AC9, JS7, TP199, MA800, RV2, MC2 were all "generational. You know who wasn't a "generational talent?" How about RD5 or ET3 just to name a few. Pretty sure they did/doing ok. That being said, I can see why he is hyped up. They are going to do the same thing to Ryder D and Degan. I feel bad for these kids. If they don't do well, they are going to chew them up and spit them out.
Mike Alessi? Hahahaa!
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 7/21/2021 1:58pm
7/21/2021 1:58pm
45ACP wrote:
Mike Alessi? Hahahaa!
At 17 years old, Mike Alessi had more hype than Jett which seems almost impossible. That’s his point. Alessi didn’t end up being a slam dunk success although very successful. There’s no guarantee that Jett will accomplish more.
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FlaNard
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FlaNard 7/21/2021 2:30pm
7/21/2021 2:30pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2021 2:43pm
I like Jett and he’s clearly very talented and fast. But being charismatic and flashy doesn’t make you a generational talent. Not to say he couldn’t be that guy as his career goes along but I can’t judge someone as a once in a generation talent based on the eyeball test alone. Right now he’s beatable and isn’t even leading the current series he’s racing. Add a healthy J-mart and he’s probably knocked down to third in the series. Let him get some titles and we’ll see. My opinion is guys like Daniel see a star in the making and are going to promote him like mad for that reason. Kenny is probably the biggest star on this side of the pond and the only thing better than one Kenny is two.
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chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 7/21/2021 3:38pm
7/21/2021 3:38pm
DrinkMoreWater wrote:
Last 20 years, in America RC, JS, RV and tomac buy tomac doesn't have the mental edge as the other 3. Jett I love him but...
Last 20 years, in America RC, JS, RV and tomac buy tomac doesn't have the mental edge as the other 3.

Jett I love him but we will see because he's so young in a higher level riding he hasn't bursted on the scene like RC, JS and RV.

My eyes on deegan and Ryder d for the next gen though, deegan might not be as naturally gifted as Ryder or jett but one things for sure that kid is hungry and wants to win everything he enters just like the riders I mentioned at the top.
Park Boys wrote:
I think career success and talent are two different things. Pastrana is a perfect example of this, maybe the second most talented guy behind Stew ever...
I think career success and talent are two different things. Pastrana is a perfect example of this, maybe the second most talented guy behind Stew ever? Winning titles at 16-17 and then crashing out and never fully recovering. But still battling for SX wins at 18/19 in the big boy class.
agn5008 wrote:
Pastrana was elite at freestyle mx. He was really fast at mx but not elite. We can name quite a few guys who were extremely fast...
Pastrana was elite at freestyle mx. He was really fast at mx but not elite. We can name quite a few guys who were extremely fast but not elite. When you’re trying to make a point the words you use matter.

Jett is really fast and an absolutely amazing rider. But he has shown nothing indicating he’s going to become one of the elite riders. He’s won 2 out of 13 overalls in his career. I’m sure he will improve significantly over the next few years but there’s no reason to believe he’s gonna be the next RC or JS.
He won a national MX championship. That’s a pretty fucking elite club to be in…
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JOE_SPROCKETS#1 7/21/2021 4:18pm
7/21/2021 4:18pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2021 4:19pm
Park Boys wrote:
I think career success and talent are two different things. Pastrana is a perfect example of this, maybe the second most talented guy behind Stew ever...
I think career success and talent are two different things. Pastrana is a perfect example of this, maybe the second most talented guy behind Stew ever? Winning titles at 16-17 and then crashing out and never fully recovering. But still battling for SX wins at 18/19 in the big boy class.
agn5008 wrote:
Pastrana was elite at freestyle mx. He was really fast at mx but not elite. We can name quite a few guys who were extremely fast...
Pastrana was elite at freestyle mx. He was really fast at mx but not elite. We can name quite a few guys who were extremely fast but not elite. When you’re trying to make a point the words you use matter.

Jett is really fast and an absolutely amazing rider. But he has shown nothing indicating he’s going to become one of the elite riders. He’s won 2 out of 13 overalls in his career. I’m sure he will improve significantly over the next few years but there’s no reason to believe he’s gonna be the next RC or JS.
chasetwo79 wrote:
He won a national MX championship. That’s a pretty fucking elite club to be in…
Was on the team that Won the MXDN I’m pretty sure in the 125 2 stroke days.
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brimx153
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brimx153 7/21/2021 4:38pm
7/21/2021 4:38pm
Motofinne wrote:
I listened to that Pulp segment with JT and Blair and the issue is that people have different definitions of what generational talent means. In my...
I listened to that Pulp segment with JT and Blair and the issue is that people have different definitions of what generational talent means.

In my mind, saying that Jett is an generational talent isn't the same as saying he is on JS7's level. It means that Jett (or whatever other rider you might talk about) is the best or one of the best talents of this current generation and that if he fulfills his potential, he will be a multitime champion. A talent capable of dominating or being the most winning rider of that generation.

This whole discussion is a dead end because people have an ocean between them when defining what generational talent means.
I agree it can have different definitions. But Blair said he was going to be the Next MC ,and he ll be winning till he get s tired of it. Imo he has nt shown anything to justify saying that. Could he be ? Yea maybe. But he will have to get alot better quickly! to be put in the same category as MC / RC. Jett is a great rider ,he will have a great career baring injuries. But i was still more impressed by Roczen and Herrings at that age . And even though they are amazing rider s they are along way off MC/RC type of results
brimx153
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brimx153 7/21/2021 4:42pm
7/21/2021 4:42pm
crusty_xx wrote:
Dude had to move to a different continent twice before turning 15 and is a multiple SX and MX race winner (and possible national champ) 2...
Dude had to move to a different continent twice before turning 15 and is a multiple SX and MX race winner (and possible national champ) 2 years later and people are still waiting to see if he's any good? Dizzy
Being really (really) good and being The next MC or RC are different things. KW14 was really really good but he was no where near MC or RC ,
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web mx 7/21/2021 4:46pm
7/21/2021 4:46pm
Denn700 wrote:
He is a great rider but he needs to do something really special to convince me. Reed went from an 85 to a 250 two stroke...
He is a great rider but he needs to do something really special to convince me. Reed went from an 85 to a 250 two stroke and won back to back Australian Supercross championships at 16 and 17. At 18 he finished 2nd in the MXGP premier class and at 19, his rookie AMA year on a 250F, he almost swept the East series. He came from way back to almost catching Jesseman on the last lap and then he lost to Stew in the shootout.
Reed was born in march 82 so he was 20 when he won the 2002 east 125 sx title

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