Is Kawasaki the new Honda?

McG194
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Edited Date/Time 5/25/2021 8:33am
Between 82 and 96 Honda utterly dominated winning 13 of 15 SX titles but they were never very loyal to the Red Riders who won the titles. There are lots of stories of Honda telling riders they could be replaced because it was all about the bikes. While I don't think Kawasaki has the dominant bike because those probably reside in Austria they seem to have learned when to cut bait with riders. Does Kawasaki letting Eli go seem familiar to any fans of Honda from back in the day?

With Honda letting great riders walk they never got stuck paying for past performance. I'm not a huge Tomac fan but he has been a gnarly bad mofo with 4 big bike championships and 37 Supercross wins. With his past success being acknowledged his best days are solidly behind him and you would have to be delusional to think that he has 4 more championships in him and 37 more SX wins.

It would make sense and lend credence to the rumor that Kawasaki didn't offer him a contract. In other sports it is done all the time that veteran players are cut or traded when their contract doesn't match their performance so why not in moto? He may even still have another championship or 2 in him and 5 or 6 SX race wins but would you pay a guy like that as a top number one guy or would you continue to move towards youth?
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5/19/2021 5:37pm
Eli left, he wasn’t let go.
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Talisker
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5/19/2021 5:39pm
Ktm is the new Honda. But they seem to keep their riders.
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McG194
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5/19/2021 5:42pm
Talisker wrote:
Ktm is the new Honda. But they seem to keep their riders.
If you read my post I acknowledge that the dominant bike is made in Austria. I'll give you three guesses what bikes are made in Austria.

The whole post was about how the manufacturers treat their riders.
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McG194
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5/19/2021 5:47pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Eli left, he wasn’t let go.
If he "left" instead of wasn't offered a contract why would Kawasaki put out the press release so fast that they were splitting up? I can't recall that ever being done so early in the season.

I ride Blu Cru so I'm not a Yamaha hater by any means but why would he leave Kawasaki to ride the "Blue Pig?" Does Eli really want to leave his home in Colorado to train and live in North Florida? Doesn't make sense.

It's possible he left on his own but I did hear the didn't extend a contract.
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The Shop

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5/19/2021 5:53pm
McG194 wrote:
If he "left" instead of wasn't offered a contract why would Kawasaki put out the press release so fast that they were splitting up? I can't...
If he "left" instead of wasn't offered a contract why would Kawasaki put out the press release so fast that they were splitting up? I can't recall that ever being done so early in the season.

I ride Blu Cru so I'm not a Yamaha hater by any means but why would he leave Kawasaki to ride the "Blue Pig?" Does Eli really want to leave his home in Colorado to train and live in North Florida? Doesn't make sense.

It's possible he left on his own but I did hear the didn't extend a contract.
Jeremy Martin still trains in Minnesota. Pretty certain Eli will be able to train at home in Colorado.

He'll go to California/Florida when needed, just like JMart.
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5/19/2021 5:54pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2021 5:55pm
No. Kawasaki still needs to win more world titles, to get even close to Honda's numbers.
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crowe660
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5/19/2021 5:58pm
Any more brain busters?
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5/19/2021 6:00pm
Eli isn't changing his whole training program for a new team. Guarantee he does things the same way he's always don't them
5/19/2021 6:00pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Eli left, he wasn’t let go.
McG194 wrote:
If he "left" instead of wasn't offered a contract why would Kawasaki put out the press release so fast that they were splitting up? I can't...
If he "left" instead of wasn't offered a contract why would Kawasaki put out the press release so fast that they were splitting up? I can't recall that ever being done so early in the season.

I ride Blu Cru so I'm not a Yamaha hater by any means but why would he leave Kawasaki to ride the "Blue Pig?" Does Eli really want to leave his home in Colorado to train and live in North Florida? Doesn't make sense.

It's possible he left on his own but I did hear the didn't extend a contract.
Kawasaki is saving face. He isn’t leaving because he’s happy at Kawasaki, that’s a fact. Another fact is that the kawi crew was surprised he was leaving because they knew he could come back if he wanted.

Eli won’t be going to train anywhere near Florida.
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McG194
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5/19/2021 6:08pm
No. Kawasaki still needs to win more world titles, to get even close to Honda's numbers.
Does anyone read anything other than the thread title?
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jasonv43
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5/19/2021 6:14pm
McG194 wrote:
Between 82 and 96 Honda utterly dominated winning 13 of 15 SX titles but they were never very loyal to the Red Riders who won the...
Between 82 and 96 Honda utterly dominated winning 13 of 15 SX titles but they were never very loyal to the Red Riders who won the titles. There are lots of stories of Honda telling riders they could be replaced because it was all about the bikes. While I don't think Kawasaki has the dominant bike because those probably reside in Austria they seem to have learned when to cut bait with riders. Does Kawasaki letting Eli go seem familiar to any fans of Honda from back in the day?

With Honda letting great riders walk they never got stuck paying for past performance. I'm not a huge Tomac fan but he has been a gnarly bad mofo with 4 big bike championships and 37 Supercross wins. With his past success being acknowledged his best days are solidly behind him and you would have to be delusional to think that he has 4 more championships in him and 37 more SX wins.

It would make sense and lend credence to the rumor that Kawasaki didn't offer him a contract. In other sports it is done all the time that veteran players are cut or traded when their contract doesn't match their performance so why not in moto? He may even still have another championship or 2 in him and 5 or 6 SX race wins but would you pay a guy like that as a top number one guy or would you continue to move towards youth?
Is Kawasaki the new Honda? No.

They are both similar in the sense that they are both Japanese owned companies which sometimes do things that seem detached from the prospective markets of said companies.
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McG194
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5/19/2021 6:21pm
jasonv43 wrote:
Is Kawasaki the new Honda? No. They are both similar in the sense that they are both Japanese owned companies which sometimes do things that seem...
Is Kawasaki the new Honda? No.

They are both similar in the sense that they are both Japanese owned companies which sometimes do things that seem detached from the prospective markets of said companies.
C'mon guys work with me a bit. Read the post and ask yourself what question I was asking.

Am I asking: Are Kawasaki's red? No
Am I asking: Did Kawasaki win 13 of 15 championships? No
Am I asking: Is Kawasaki better than KTM? No
Am I asking: Is Kawasaki going to send its entire team to the MXdN? No
Am I asking: Does Kawasaki seem to be taking a hard line with their Champions? Ding ding ding winner!!!!!

Maybe that's the question I was asking. I thought I stated it plainly.
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fanger
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5/19/2021 6:47pm
Villopoto left/retired and changed brands, Stewart left didn't he? Eli obviously left. Did RC leave or get pushed out? Reed left.

From memory it seems the riders leave.
hubbardmx50
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5/19/2021 7:25pm
I see what you’re saying and I don’t think so. I can see Adam finishing his career on green just like Villopoto did. Eli seems to have his own reasons for leaving. And you’re right, Honda was super rigid with their champions in the past. Henry McGrath Carmichael Albertyn.
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nickm
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5/19/2021 7:31pm
Pure speculation and storytelling here..but ni the '80s, when Wardy wouldn't win race and would come in 2nd or 3rd, there are stories out there that Kawasaki Japan would call and ask "what is the condition of rider Jeff Ward". Similar stories with Emig.

Bet its a good guess that culture hasn't changed much and for every Elito post we read here, there was probably an email from Japan that read "what is the condition of rider Eli Tomac"

Smile
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McG194
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5/19/2021 7:44pm
The amazing thing on this thread is how many people still think Eli holds all the cards. He has underperformed the past two race series. The worst thing a manufacturer is pay a guy who is past his prime like he is in his prime. He may have had an offer from Kawasaki and just needed a break, I just don't know why you would go to a bike that has been widely panned by most in the know.


*****When I say underperformed I know the pitchforks will come out but I'm talking underperformed compared to the guy that could put 20 seconds on anyone in the world on any given day.*****
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McG194
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In MotoGP Honda even thought it was the bike and not Valentino Rossi.
Exactly!!!
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5/20/2021 4:10am Edited Date/Time 5/20/2021 4:33am
McG194 wrote:
The amazing thing on this thread is how many people still think Eli holds all the cards. He has underperformed the past two race series. The...
The amazing thing on this thread is how many people still think Eli holds all the cards. He has underperformed the past two race series. The worst thing a manufacturer is pay a guy who is past his prime like he is in his prime. He may have had an offer from Kawasaki and just needed a break, I just don't know why you would go to a bike that has been widely panned by most in the know.


*****When I say underperformed I know the pitchforks will come out but I'm talking underperformed compared to the guy that could put 20 seconds on anyone in the world on any given day.*****
This. Eli and Kawasaki were the most dominant team over the past 5 years with 55 race wins and 4 championships in the AMA 450 class. I’m quite sure he was being paid handsomely for this performance.

He hasn’t been even close to the same guy for the past year, so when his contract came up for renewal, I doubt he was offered the same money Kaw offered the last time around. You can’t blame them.

Eli figures he has a year or two left to line his pocketbook before he rides off into the sunset, so you can’t blame him, either.

Yamaha hasn’t won an AMA 450 championship in well over a decade, and hasn’t won even a single race yet this year. Perhaps they recognize the success that Eli and Kawasaki have had, and signed him not only for his racing abilities, but for his bike development skills. Star certainly has a talented 250 lineup, so maybe they want to be sure the motorcycle is dialed in as perfectly as possible before throwing any of these young, talented 250 guys to the wolves in the 450 class. They couldn’t have signed a better rider to help them accomplish this goal.

Besides, Yamaha already has a history of signing past Kawasaki champions to lucrative endorsement deals once they are retired, so there’s that.

As for comparing this to the RC/Honda situation, it isn’t even in the same ballpark. RC was still at the height of his powers when Honda refused to renew his contract (RC handed Honda a 24-0 season on his way out the door).
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5/20/2021 4:33am
McG194 wrote:
The amazing thing on this thread is how many people still think Eli holds all the cards. He has underperformed the past two race series. The...
The amazing thing on this thread is how many people still think Eli holds all the cards. He has underperformed the past two race series. The worst thing a manufacturer is pay a guy who is past his prime like he is in his prime. He may have had an offer from Kawasaki and just needed a break, I just don't know why you would go to a bike that has been widely panned by most in the know.


*****When I say underperformed I know the pitchforks will come out but I'm talking underperformed compared to the guy that could put 20 seconds on anyone in the world on any given day.*****
What makes me think that Eli has the power? He had 3 teams to choose from, that’s some power.
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Last Braaap
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5/20/2021 4:40am Edited Date/Time 5/20/2021 4:43am
McG194 wrote:
If you read my post I acknowledge that the dominant bike is made in Austria. I'll give you three guesses what bikes are made in Austria...
If you read my post I acknowledge that the dominant bike is made in Austria. I'll give you three guesses what bikes are made in Austria.

The whole post was about how the manufacturers treat their riders.
3 bikes made in Austria:

Nr.1 Puch
Nr.2 Delta-Gnom

and... uh... Its name is forbidden to say here... *gulp*
...
Nr.3 Husaberg
...
Legend says that if you say its name three times in front of the mirror - all four strokes on the earth disappear.

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McG194
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5/20/2021 4:44am
McG194 wrote:
The amazing thing on this thread is how many people still think Eli holds all the cards. He has underperformed the past two race series. The...
The amazing thing on this thread is how many people still think Eli holds all the cards. He has underperformed the past two race series. The worst thing a manufacturer is pay a guy who is past his prime like he is in his prime. He may have had an offer from Kawasaki and just needed a break, I just don't know why you would go to a bike that has been widely panned by most in the know.


*****When I say underperformed I know the pitchforks will come out but I'm talking underperformed compared to the guy that could put 20 seconds on anyone in the world on any given day.*****
UpTiTe wrote:
What makes me think that Eli has the power? He had 3 teams to choose from, that’s some power.
What 3 teams were willing to pay 2022 Eli like they would pay 2018 Eli?

That's like saying I have all the power because I have 7 brands I can ride for.
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5/20/2021 5:14am
McG194 wrote:
The amazing thing on this thread is how many people still think Eli holds all the cards. He has underperformed the past two race series. The...
The amazing thing on this thread is how many people still think Eli holds all the cards. He has underperformed the past two race series. The worst thing a manufacturer is pay a guy who is past his prime like he is in his prime. He may have had an offer from Kawasaki and just needed a break, I just don't know why you would go to a bike that has been widely panned by most in the know.


*****When I say underperformed I know the pitchforks will come out but I'm talking underperformed compared to the guy that could put 20 seconds on anyone in the world on any given day.*****
UpTiTe wrote:
What makes me think that Eli has the power? He had 3 teams to choose from, that’s some power.
McG194 wrote:
What 3 teams were willing to pay 2022 Eli like they would pay 2018 Eli? That's like saying I have all the power because I have...
What 3 teams were willing to pay 2022 Eli like they would pay 2018 Eli?

That's like saying I have all the power because I have 7 brands I can ride for.
Holy shit man, ok, you win. The teams had all the power. Eli is lucky to have a ride. Kawasaki just threw him out like the trash.
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stremme12
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5/20/2021 5:22am
UpTiTe wrote:
What makes me think that Eli has the power? He had 3 teams to choose from, that’s some power.
McG194 wrote:
What 3 teams were willing to pay 2022 Eli like they would pay 2018 Eli? That's like saying I have all the power because I have...
What 3 teams were willing to pay 2022 Eli like they would pay 2018 Eli?

That's like saying I have all the power because I have 7 brands I can ride for.
UpTiTe wrote:
Holy shit man, ok, you win. The teams had all the power. Eli is lucky to have a ride. Kawasaki just threw him out like the...
Holy shit man, ok, you win. The teams had all the power. Eli is lucky to have a ride. Kawasaki just threw him out like the trash.
According to Cooksey's homeboys Eli didn't have an offer from Kawi. lol I'm guessing that was way wrong.
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JBlain619
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5/20/2021 6:44am
UpTiTe wrote:
Eli left, he wasn’t let go.
McG194 wrote:
If he "left" instead of wasn't offered a contract why would Kawasaki put out the press release so fast that they were splitting up? I can't...
If he "left" instead of wasn't offered a contract why would Kawasaki put out the press release so fast that they were splitting up? I can't recall that ever being done so early in the season.

I ride Blu Cru so I'm not a Yamaha hater by any means but why would he leave Kawasaki to ride the "Blue Pig?" Does Eli really want to leave his home in Colorado to train and live in North Florida? Doesn't make sense.

It's possible he left on his own but I did hear the didn't extend a contract.
Who said he didn't have an offer from Kawasaki?
BMc914
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5/20/2021 6:56am

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AH387
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5/20/2021 7:07am
I think in the past Honda may have held some power just because they were "The Team." They had the bikes, the program was great and riders felt that gave them the best chance to win a title. I do not think Kawasaki is viewed in that way. I think the sport is so different now, it's tough to really make any comparisons like that. But as far as Eli, I doubt it was a matter of "letting him go." Sounded like they were willing to have him back but he decided to go elsewhere. Even in the Nichols interview, he mentioned Eli inquiring about moving to Yamaha, a while back, in the season.
5/20/2021 7:19am
fanger wrote:
Villopoto left/retired and changed brands, Stewart left didn't he? Eli obviously left. Did RC leave or get pushed out? Reed left. From memory it seems the...
Villopoto left/retired and changed brands, Stewart left didn't he? Eli obviously left. Did RC leave or get pushed out? Reed left.

From memory it seems the riders leave.
they didnt make much effort to hang on to RC, i cant remember where i saw the interview but he mentions them basically making no effort to keep him.
5/20/2021 7:24am
fanger wrote:
Villopoto left/retired and changed brands, Stewart left didn't he? Eli obviously left. Did RC leave or get pushed out? Reed left. From memory it seems the...
Villopoto left/retired and changed brands, Stewart left didn't he? Eli obviously left. Did RC leave or get pushed out? Reed left.

From memory it seems the riders leave.
they didnt make much effort to hang on to RC, i cant remember where i saw the interview but he mentions them basically making no effort...
they didnt make much effort to hang on to RC, i cant remember where i saw the interview but he mentions them basically making no effort to keep him.
Kawasaki tried, Honda didn’t try.
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5/20/2021 7:28am Edited Date/Time 5/20/2021 7:30am
McG194 wrote:
What 3 teams were willing to pay 2022 Eli like they would pay 2018 Eli? That's like saying I have all the power because I have...
What 3 teams were willing to pay 2022 Eli like they would pay 2018 Eli?

That's like saying I have all the power because I have 7 brands I can ride for.
UpTiTe wrote:
Holy shit man, ok, you win. The teams had all the power. Eli is lucky to have a ride. Kawasaki just threw him out like the...
Holy shit man, ok, you win. The teams had all the power. Eli is lucky to have a ride. Kawasaki just threw him out like the trash.
stremme12 wrote:
According to Cooksey's homeboys Eli didn't have an offer from Kawi. lol I'm guessing that was way wrong.
Theoretically, no he didn’t get a contract offer. It was assumed by them he would re sign, and then they dropped the Yamaha bomb.

It from what I understand, they’re not looking at it as a loss, some were tired of him.

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