Found this while doing an oil change...

AnimalHungry
Edited Date/Time 5/16/2021 8:05pm
I drain the oil on my 2016 KTM 350 SX-F and I find this attached to the magnetic drain bolt.



I thought it might be a clutch pin but it can’t be because all my clutch pins are fine. I run a Rekluse Radius CX fully auto clutch which at 55 hrs the EXP plate broke into pieces but stayed together inside the clutch basket, including all the pins. Last oil change was 50 hrs and this oil change is 60 hrs.

This is a hollow pin with the same OD as a clutch pin but, to the eye, its wall might be ever so slightly thinner. In any event, it’s not complete so I have to assume there’s the rest of it rattling around in there. Any ideas what it is and how I go about fixing it?

Cheers
Simon
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1911
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1911 5/13/2021 7:26pm
5/13/2021 7:26pm
Flux Capacitor?
Obviously I don’t know what it is I hope it’s easy to fix
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jbonemalone
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jbonemalone 5/13/2021 7:35pm
5/13/2021 7:35pm
Sad to say but a full tear down is in order on this one.
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Talisker
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Talisker 5/13/2021 7:44pm
5/13/2021 7:44pm
How did that come out of the drain hole? Not sure, but looks serious!!! I agree, tear down, or broken bones may be in your future...
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Spooner
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Spooner 5/13/2021 8:10pm
5/13/2021 8:10pm
Not sure what it is but 10 hours on an oil change sure seems like a long time to me
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AnimalHungry 5/13/2021 8:18pm
5/13/2021 8:18pm
Yeah I’ll take it in for a tear down. Remarkable it’s still running.

Every 10 hrs is the recommended service interval for oil changes. I did them every 5 hrs for the first 25 hrs in case there was break-in wear and then went to every 10 after that.

Cheers
Simon
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outerlimits
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outerlimits 5/13/2021 8:30pm
5/13/2021 8:30pm
Hope you figure it out without too much drama. I'm still stuck on the part about 60 hours on a 5 year old bike however. I'm guessing you must have multiple bikes.
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FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 5/13/2021 8:30pm
5/13/2021 8:30pm
Looks like one of the dowel pins that go between the cases.
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AnimalHungry 5/13/2021 8:50pm
5/13/2021 8:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/13/2021 8:51pm
outerlimits wrote:
Hope you figure it out without too much drama. I'm still stuck on the part about 60 hours on a 5 year old bike however. I'm...
Hope you figure it out without too much drama. I'm still stuck on the part about 60 hours on a 5 year old bike however. I'm guessing you must have multiple bikes.
Thanks. Just the one bike. I raced it in 2016 and put 30 hrs on it then only rode it twice until the end of 2020 when I got back into racing.
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AnimalHungry 5/13/2021 8:52pm
5/13/2021 8:52pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Looks like one of the dowel pins that go between the cases.
Thanks. I could see that. However, if it was one of the dowel pins then presumably that means that part of the case that holds the dowel pin in place is also broken. Smells expensive.
AnimalHungry 5/13/2021 9:13pm
5/13/2021 9:13pm
Is that a plastic gear!?!? Or anodized ally? I can't see any parts in there that look like the metal piece that fell out of mine though.

Cheers
Simon
KMC440
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KMC440 5/13/2021 9:21pm
5/13/2021 9:21pm
PM'd you Simon.

Two positives...
Most of it is out.
Nothing really really catastrophic happened.

👍 best to you for getting it figured out.
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Timo
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Timo 5/14/2021 5:46am
5/14/2021 5:46am
Spooner wrote:
Not sure what it is but 10 hours on an oil change sure seems like a long time to me
Modern oil can easily take 10 hours, I currently have 17 on my oil.
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quadzrulebro 5/14/2021 6:09am
5/14/2021 6:09am
Spooner wrote:
Not sure what it is but 10 hours on an oil change sure seems like a long time to me
Read your manual. My KX450 (and my CRF450R before that) calls for 15 hour oil change intervals. Manuals are famous for extremely cautious recommendations, so I’m quite confident that this is safe. I use high quality synthetic oil, change my oil every 10-15 hours, and have never had an engine failure or any signs of wear. I change a piston at 100 hours just for peace of mind.
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Mega Racing 5/14/2021 6:10am
5/14/2021 6:10am
Spooner wrote:
Not sure what it is but 10 hours on an oil change sure seems like a long time to me
Timo wrote:
Modern oil can easily take 10 hours, I currently have 17 on my oil.
Yes the manual recommends 10 hours for oil & i do filter every other time so 20 hours for filter. It saves a good bit over a season
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TheNewOriginal 5/14/2021 6:13am
5/14/2021 6:13am
FIREfish148 wrote:
Looks like one of the dowel pins that go between the cases.
AnimalHungry wrote:
Thanks. I could see that. However, if it was one of the dowel pins then presumably that means that part of the case that holds the...
Thanks. I could see that. However, if it was one of the dowel pins then presumably that means that part of the case that holds the dowel pin in place is also broken. Smells expensive.
Possibly (best scenario), a dowel pin dropped during assembly and has been in the case since new.
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LungButter
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LungButter 5/14/2021 6:14am
5/14/2021 6:14am
Mega Racing wrote:
Yes the manual recommends 10 hours for oil & i do filter every other time so 20 hours for filter. It saves a good bit over...
Yes the manual recommends 10 hours for oil & i do filter every other time so 20 hours for filter. It saves a good bit over a season
x2

And I use Rotella.... (gasp!) Laughing
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mx317
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mx317 5/14/2021 6:22am
5/14/2021 6:22am Edited Date/Time 5/14/2021 7:38am
Something broke it up like that. It must have been between some gears or other moving parts at some point. A tear down is a must.
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AnimalHungry 5/14/2021 6:32am
5/14/2021 6:32am
FIREfish148 wrote:
Looks like one of the dowel pins that go between the cases.
AnimalHungry wrote:
Thanks. I could see that. However, if it was one of the dowel pins then presumably that means that part of the case that holds the...
Thanks. I could see that. However, if it was one of the dowel pins then presumably that means that part of the case that holds the dowel pin in place is also broken. Smells expensive.
TheNewOriginal wrote:
Possibly (best scenario), a dowel pin dropped during assembly and has been in the case since new.
That would make sense, but I can’t see any dowel pins that look like that on the parts fiche.

I pulled the clutch out and it all looked good (just pulled the plates and dint remove the hub). I’ve been thru the whole engine parts fiche for it and the only thing that looks like it (other than clutch pins) are the needle rollers in the oil pump shaft (#14, 15 and 16 here: https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2016-ktm-350-sx-f/o/m157856#sch102…). Maybe?
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Rejser
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Rejser 5/14/2021 7:29am
5/14/2021 7:29am
Those pins on the oil pump shaft is only like 3mm so not that.
Almost big enough for shift fork guides.....or the pins in the forks. But then the shifting would not work soo...
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mx317
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mx317 5/14/2021 7:41am
5/14/2021 7:41am
It doesn't look like a dowel I've seen in KTM engines. I would have to say a clutch pin may have dropped in during assembly either at the factory or somewhere down the road. Like I said before, something chewed on it and most likely damaged a gear or something else it got into.
Herb Eaversmells 5/14/2021 7:53am
5/14/2021 7:53am
AnimalHungry wrote:
Is that a plastic gear!?!? Or anodized ally? I can't see any parts in there that look like the metal piece that fell out of mine...
Is that a plastic gear!?!? Or anodized ally? I can't see any parts in there that look like the metal piece that fell out of mine though.

Cheers
Simon
That’s what KTM had in the 2016, the pile of shit oil pump gear. If you have the plastic gear, get it out.
Steve125
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Steve125 5/14/2021 8:29am
5/14/2021 8:29am
I'm probably over cautious but anything that has a wet clutch, with the same oil feeding the engine bearings, I change every 3 hours. I'm not as worried about oil breakdown as I am about bits of debris getting where it shouldn't be.
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Falcon
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Falcon 5/14/2021 8:35am
5/14/2021 8:35am
Steve125 wrote:
I'm probably over cautious but anything that has a wet clutch, with the same oil feeding the engine bearings, I change every 3 hours. I'm not...
I'm probably over cautious but anything that has a wet clutch, with the same oil feeding the engine bearings, I change every 3 hours. I'm not as worried about oil breakdown as I am about bits of debris getting where it shouldn't be.
This. You are being overly cautious, but the quality of today's oils is not the thing to fear; contamination is.
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Timo
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Timo 5/14/2021 8:41am
5/14/2021 8:41am
Steve125 wrote:
I'm probably over cautious but anything that has a wet clutch, with the same oil feeding the engine bearings, I change every 3 hours. I'm not...
I'm probably over cautious but anything that has a wet clutch, with the same oil feeding the engine bearings, I change every 3 hours. I'm not as worried about oil breakdown as I am about bits of debris getting where it shouldn't be.
I guess my cbr, v-star, XT, and Maxim need to be changed more often than 3-5,000 miles.... Your oil filter is supposed to catch the wear particles that are big enough to cause damage, or are we removing filters to save weight now? Just remove the oil pump while we're at it and throw in premix, some of you change Pistons every ride and sell your bikes at 25 hours....

When and where did this craziness about 3 hour oil changes come from? Does anyone know, was it some jackass on a forum hazing a new member telling them "you gotta change your oil every ride or your bike will blow-up"?
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seth505
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seth505 5/14/2021 8:49am
5/14/2021 8:49am
Steve125 wrote:
I'm probably over cautious but anything that has a wet clutch, with the same oil feeding the engine bearings, I change every 3 hours. I'm not...
I'm probably over cautious but anything that has a wet clutch, with the same oil feeding the engine bearings, I change every 3 hours. I'm not as worried about oil breakdown as I am about bits of debris getting where it shouldn't be.
Timo wrote:
I guess my cbr, v-star, XT, and Maxim need to be changed more often than 3-5,000 miles.... Your oil filter is supposed to catch the wear...
I guess my cbr, v-star, XT, and Maxim need to be changed more often than 3-5,000 miles.... Your oil filter is supposed to catch the wear particles that are big enough to cause damage, or are we removing filters to save weight now? Just remove the oil pump while we're at it and throw in premix, some of you change Pistons every ride and sell your bikes at 25 hours....

When and where did this craziness about 3 hour oil changes come from? Does anyone know, was it some jackass on a forum hazing a new member telling them "you gotta change your oil every ride or your bike will blow-up"?
I understand what you're saying but it's not a fair comparison. Why can a truck go 20k, a street bike go 3k and a dirt bike go a couple hours on oil change? Different applications and different abuse.

I will add, a very reputable engine builder told me to not go more than a few hours on oil, in the name of engine reliability.
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mx317
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mx317 5/14/2021 9:20am
5/14/2021 9:20am Edited Date/Time 5/14/2021 9:21am
I change oil at around 4 hours. My 450 YZF only holds 650cc, so why would you not unless you are just being lazy. I do the oil filter every other oil change.

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JBecker 72
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JBecker 72 5/14/2021 9:33am
5/14/2021 9:33am Edited Date/Time 5/14/2021 9:34am
Yeah I also only put about 3 hours on oil in my 250F. Changing it often let’s me see if anything bad is happening, like the pics OP posted. I would be tearing that engine down completely if it were mine. I wouldn’t have the confidence to ride that bike for MX without doing that.
Spooner
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Spooner 5/14/2021 9:42am
5/14/2021 9:42am
seth505 wrote:
I understand what you're saying but it's not a fair comparison. Why can a truck go 20k, a street bike go 3k and a dirt bike...
I understand what you're saying but it's not a fair comparison. Why can a truck go 20k, a street bike go 3k and a dirt bike go a couple hours on oil change? Different applications and different abuse.

I will add, a very reputable engine builder told me to not go more than a few hours on oil, in the name of engine reliability.
Plus a dirt bike holds so little oil that its not very expensive to change so to me it pretty cheap insurance. I race offroad and change it after pretty much every race if I had to abuse the clutch much at all.
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MPJC
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MPJC 5/14/2021 10:08am
5/14/2021 10:08am
Steve125 wrote:
I'm probably over cautious but anything that has a wet clutch, with the same oil feeding the engine bearings, I change every 3 hours. I'm not...
I'm probably over cautious but anything that has a wet clutch, with the same oil feeding the engine bearings, I change every 3 hours. I'm not as worried about oil breakdown as I am about bits of debris getting where it shouldn't be.
Timo wrote:
I guess my cbr, v-star, XT, and Maxim need to be changed more often than 3-5,000 miles.... Your oil filter is supposed to catch the wear...
I guess my cbr, v-star, XT, and Maxim need to be changed more often than 3-5,000 miles.... Your oil filter is supposed to catch the wear particles that are big enough to cause damage, or are we removing filters to save weight now? Just remove the oil pump while we're at it and throw in premix, some of you change Pistons every ride and sell your bikes at 25 hours....

When and where did this craziness about 3 hour oil changes come from? Does anyone know, was it some jackass on a forum hazing a new member telling them "you gotta change your oil every ride or your bike will blow-up"?
Are you using the clutch and transmission on your street bikes the way that you use the clutch and transmission on an mx bike? If you're wearing out clutches, you're contaminating the oil at the same time.
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