Macadoo - If you cause a red flag should you be allowed to line up?

WFO
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WFO 4/13/2021 6:47pm
4/13/2021 6:47pm
Berm wrote:
The rules from the rulebook: https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2020-AMA-Supercross-Rulebook.pdf The note in bold is only in the section about the race being stopped with 3 laps completed. This note...
The rules from the rulebook: https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2020-AMA-Super…

The note in bold is only in the section about the race being stopped with 3 laps completed. This note does not exist in the section if the race is stopped before 3 laps are complete.

pg 35-36:
b. The race is stopped (with 3 laps completed by the leader and
less than 90% of the total distance completed by the race
leader, rounded down to the nearest whole number of laps /
whether it be a Heat, Last Chance Qualifier or Main Event).
1. A red flag will be displayed to the riders.
PROCEDURES
RACE RULES &
,,,
6. Riders will be restarted from a staggered standing start in
the starting area.
...
g. Riders who were no longer actively participating in race at
the time when the red flag was displayed are not
authorized to take part in the restart.


This is found in the general offenses and penalties.

pg 57: 20. Causing or attempting to cause a race to be stopped. At
the sole discretion of Race Direction, a rider who is judged
to have intentionally caused a red flag may be excluded
from restarting the event in question.



So, by the rules, he would not be barred from restarting for being the cause of the red-flag (since the race had fewer than 3 laps complete & he did not intentionally cause the red flag).
Nice post! Thanks!
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Shiner590
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Shiner590 4/13/2021 7:19pm
4/13/2021 7:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/13/2021 7:42pm
They had to red flag because he couldn’t get off the track without outside assistance.

How the hell should he be allowed to ride after that. He basically stayed down until he saw the red flag, then got up
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AP_151
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AP_151 4/13/2021 7:20pm
4/13/2021 7:20pm
The fact this thread exists so soon after witnessing such an act of pure badassery...


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DownSouth
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DownSouth 4/13/2021 7:24pm
4/13/2021 7:24pm Edited Date/Time 4/13/2021 7:38pm
I am ok with letting him restart but they need to stop going back to the gate and do a staggered start. Stop penalizing some guys and giving others a do over.
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DonM
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DonM 4/13/2021 7:36pm
4/13/2021 7:36pm
Shiner590 wrote:
They had to red flag because he couldn’t get off the track without outside assistance. How the hell should he be allowed to ride after that...
They had to red flag because he couldn’t get off the track without outside assistance.

How the hell should he be allowed to ride after that. He basically stayed down until he saw the red flag, then got up
Rules is rules....you make it sound like he faked it...
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huckabuck
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huckabuck 4/13/2021 7:38pm
4/13/2021 7:38pm Edited Date/Time 4/13/2021 7:40pm
9 out of 10 times in a red flag situation, a red flag for a downed rider or riders results in that rider not lining up for the restart. Most guys would have went back to the pits or in some cases the hospital. This situation was an anomaly and won’t become a norm as some of you are suggesting.

I can say with 100% certainty that no one that gets a bad start will intentionally start causing red flags within 3 laps, that’s a reach and pretty dumb thing to do to put yourself in a situation like that.
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Drtbykr
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Drtbykr 4/13/2021 7:52pm
4/13/2021 7:52pm
MacAdoo didn’t throw it, so sure.

Quick medical exam after that yard sale. Reminded me of the Filthy Phil clip with the full body slam.

Gnarly dudes.
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wisconsinracer24 4/13/2021 7:57pm
4/13/2021 7:57pm
Dude got a lashing and lined back up... he didn't fake it. 32 has the speed to wrap this up, a real champion wants to win knowing he was the best not the luckiest. Seems like a win win for both parties.
toroP
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toroP 4/13/2021 8:03pm
4/13/2021 8:03pm
Shiner590 wrote:
They had to red flag because he couldn’t get off the track without outside assistance. How the hell should he be allowed to ride after that...
They had to red flag because he couldn’t get off the track without outside assistance.

How the hell should he be allowed to ride after that. He basically stayed down until he saw the red flag, then got up
DonM wrote:
Rules is rules....you make it sound like he faked it...
We he “actively participating”?
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CJ Hadwin
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CJ Hadwin 4/13/2021 8:07pm
4/13/2021 8:07pm
Guetterman wrote:
Next time Eli, Kenny or Webb crashes just lay on the ground till the red flag gets thrown. Line back up and win the race. Easy
Goofy Foot wrote:
This ^^^^ How would everyone feel if Kenny or Cooper got a bad start and was in last place while the other was leading....then realized the...
This ^^^^

How would everyone feel if Kenny or Cooper got a bad start and was in last place while the other was leading....then realized the championship is over and decided to fake a tip over in a turn and lay under the bike acting hurt. Tell the doctors you can't move until the red flag is thrown and then suddenly head back to the gate for a restart and possible 25 point swing with a win??

It sounds like the current rulebook would allow this......it needs a closer look.

This is utter bullshit...you can't "fake" that fucking crash. We al THOUGHT HE FUCKIN DIED. Stop. This isn't the NBA. We get it...but they called a red flag because that dude was not ok.

He's a soldier. There's exceptions to everything. This is one of them.
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Anonymous (not verified)
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Anonymous (not verified) 4/13/2021 8:09pm
4/13/2021 8:09pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2026 9:15pm
twotwosix wrote:
Yes. Because he didn’t call for the red flag. The AMA race director did. I say let him have at it. Dude got F@&kedddddd up in...
Yes. Because he didn’t call for the red flag. The AMA race director did.

I say let him have at it. Dude got F@&kedddddd up in that crash!
If it stayed yellow he would have been 2 laps down before he got going again.
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PNWRider
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PNWRider 4/13/2021 8:12pm
4/13/2021 8:12pm
twotwosix wrote:
If Justin Cooper can’t beat Macadoo after he got ragdolled and bent his bike up, he don’t deserve to win. Side note, huge props to Cooper...
If Justin Cooper can’t beat Macadoo after he got ragdolled and bent his bike up, he don’t deserve to win.

Side note, huge props to Cooper for lining back up and getting the holeshot again. Very impressive.
True, but we’re talking about Star here-the league leaders in whiny, bitchy protests.
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CJ Hadwin
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CJ Hadwin 4/13/2021 8:13pm
4/13/2021 8:13pm
twotwosix wrote:
Yes. Because he didn’t call for the red flag. The AMA race director did. I say let him have at it. Dude got F@&kedddddd up in...
Yes. Because he didn’t call for the red flag. The AMA race director did.

I say let him have at it. Dude got F@&kedddddd up in that crash!
Anonymous wrote:
If it stayed yellow he would have been 2 laps down before he got going again.
This is the only argument...and it's a strong one. If he was ok to go, then everyone shouldn't have to start again. I'm on the side of McAdoo here, because I'm fuckin impressed...but if I were on the verge of my first championship? I might be like...FuckAdoo....
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swizcore
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swizcore 4/13/2021 8:29pm
4/13/2021 8:29pm
The more nefarious question this raises is, what happens if the teammate of a rider in the title chase, who gets a shit-start, were to "cause a red flag"?

I don't see this happening but it makes far more sense than a rider augering himself to achieve the same result.
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kpiper
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kpiper 4/13/2021 8:38pm
4/13/2021 8:38pm
Berm wrote:
The rules from the rulebook: https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2020-AMA-Supercross-Rulebook.pdf The note in bold is only in the section about the race being stopped with 3 laps completed. This note...
The rules from the rulebook: https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2020-AMA-Super…

The note in bold is only in the section about the race being stopped with 3 laps completed. This note does not exist in the section if the race is stopped before 3 laps are complete.

pg 35-36:
b. The race is stopped (with 3 laps completed by the leader and
less than 90% of the total distance completed by the race
leader, rounded down to the nearest whole number of laps /
whether it be a Heat, Last Chance Qualifier or Main Event).
1. A red flag will be displayed to the riders.
PROCEDURES
RACE RULES &
,,,
6. Riders will be restarted from a staggered standing start in
the starting area.
...
g. Riders who were no longer actively participating in race at
the time when the red flag was displayed are not
authorized to take part in the restart.


This is found in the general offenses and penalties.

pg 57: 20. Causing or attempting to cause a race to be stopped. At
the sole discretion of Race Direction, a rider who is judged
to have intentionally caused a red flag may be excluded
from restarting the event in question.



So, by the rules, he would not be barred from restarting for being the cause of the red-flag (since the race had fewer than 3 laps complete & he did not intentionally cause the red flag).
Great post. Looks like they followed the rules perfectly.

You post this but many of the people commenting after obviously didn't read what you posted.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 4/13/2021 8:45pm
4/13/2021 8:45pm
Per the rules, he had 10 minutes to line up on the gate. He did that.

Not sure why anyone is clamoring to have the AMA ‘enforce’ a nonexistent rule to keep him from racing.

I’m glad that the AMA actually followed their own rule book this time!
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CJ Hadwin
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CJ Hadwin 4/13/2021 8:46pm
4/13/2021 8:46pm
swizcore wrote:
The more nefarious question this raises is, what happens if the teammate of a rider in the title chase, who gets a shit-start, were to "cause...
The more nefarious question this raises is, what happens if the teammate of a rider in the title chase, who gets a shit-start, were to "cause a red flag"?

I don't see this happening but it makes far more sense than a rider augering himself to achieve the same result.
This is like some Running Man shit...lol. Sacrifice yourself for your idols. AMA...American Massacre Alliance...I'm into it. So, like...if you don't point out of the 250's within 3 years you become fodder?

DeathCross 2022: Yamaha B Squad....we're coming for you.
CJ Hadwin
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CJ Hadwin 4/13/2021 8:47pm
4/13/2021 8:47pm Edited Date/Time 4/13/2021 8:48pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Per the rules, he had 10 minutes to line up on the gate. He did that. Not sure why anyone is clamoring to have the AMA...
Per the rules, he had 10 minutes to line up on the gate. He did that.

Not sure why anyone is clamoring to have the AMA ‘enforce’ a nonexistent rule to keep him from racing.

I’m glad that the AMA actually followed their own rule book this time!
For sure, they did the right thing. People are like "this can be exploited!!".

No one is going to exploit with that kind of crash ever.

End of discussion.
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KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 4/13/2021 8:57pm
4/13/2021 8:57pm
I don’t want to get too far into the what if’s. Exceptions that disprove or prove one thing or another.
The race official called the red flag, not Macadoo. He was able to restart so he did. Yes someone could fake, but watching the race go by when you could get back in it is a chancy proposition. These guys aren’t soccer players and I want to believe in their integrity until there is reason not to.
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huckabuck
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huckabuck 4/13/2021 9:02pm
4/13/2021 9:02pm
swizcore wrote:
The more nefarious question this raises is, what happens if the teammate of a rider in the title chase, who gets a shit-start, were to "cause...
The more nefarious question this raises is, what happens if the teammate of a rider in the title chase, who gets a shit-start, were to "cause a red flag"?

I don't see this happening but it makes far more sense than a rider augering himself to achieve the same result.
now teammates are intentionally lawn darting themselves... who would actually make that call? And the better question, who would actually commit to that? Hey Swiz, we are going to need you drop the front wheel in the whoops and rag doll yourself. make sure it looks good so they throw the red flag. Come on dude.

I can’t believe people are whining about a gutsy ride. I haven’t seen a ride like that since AC popped his shoulder back in or CR22 after the chadapult. As fans that’s the stuff we root for an want to see. Guys laying it all on the line gutting out rides, not disqualifying him because it work out in his favor. Plus now the championship is close with 2 mains left. Who really wants to see JC win by 30 plus points.

Ya’ll are killing me
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Zesiger 112
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Zesiger 112 4/13/2021 9:18pm
4/13/2021 9:18pm
I don’t think macadoo stayed down with the intention of restarting the race. However that could be a loophole used in the future.

The solution is simple, staggered restarts only. After the gate falls the first time they should line up for restarts. That’s fair.
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Goofy Foot
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Goofy Foot 4/13/2021 9:36pm
4/13/2021 9:36pm
Guetterman wrote:
Next time Eli, Kenny or Webb crashes just lay on the ground till the red flag gets thrown. Line back up and win the race. Easy
Goofy Foot wrote:
This ^^^^ How would everyone feel if Kenny or Cooper got a bad start and was in last place while the other was leading....then realized the...
This ^^^^

How would everyone feel if Kenny or Cooper got a bad start and was in last place while the other was leading....then realized the championship is over and decided to fake a tip over in a turn and lay under the bike acting hurt. Tell the doctors you can't move until the red flag is thrown and then suddenly head back to the gate for a restart and possible 25 point swing with a win??

It sounds like the current rulebook would allow this......it needs a closer look.

CJ Hadwin wrote:
This is utter bullshit...you can't "fake" that fucking crash. We al THOUGHT HE FUCKIN DIED. Stop. This isn't the NBA. We get it...but they called a...
This is utter bullshit...you can't "fake" that fucking crash. We al THOUGHT HE FUCKIN DIED. Stop. This isn't the NBA. We get it...but they called a red flag because that dude was not ok.

He's a soldier. There's exceptions to everything. This is one of them.
Of course he didn't fake it and yes he's a tough kid (and a very smart one too based on his podium interview). The point I'm making is that the current rule book would allow someone to fake it in the future....and that's not a good loophole to have in the rule book.

With a less gnarly looking crash or a tip over in a corner a rider could fake being down for long enough to cause a red flag and cause a restart if it's within 3 laps. And if a rider does this there's no way the AMA could prove he was faking....he got a bad start and was buried in the pack, he fell, he was hurt, and he couldn't get up because he had a cramp in his leg, just like Macadoo did tonight.

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Black Diesel Bomber 4/13/2021 9:51pm
4/13/2021 9:51pm
swizcore wrote:
The more nefarious question this raises is, what happens if the teammate of a rider in the title chase, who gets a shit-start, were to "cause...
The more nefarious question this raises is, what happens if the teammate of a rider in the title chase, who gets a shit-start, were to "cause a red flag"?

I don't see this happening but it makes far more sense than a rider augering himself to achieve the same result.
huckabuck wrote:
now teammates are intentionally lawn darting themselves... who would actually make that call? And the better question, who would actually commit to that? Hey Swiz, we...
now teammates are intentionally lawn darting themselves... who would actually make that call? And the better question, who would actually commit to that? Hey Swiz, we are going to need you drop the front wheel in the whoops and rag doll yourself. make sure it looks good so they throw the red flag. Come on dude.

I can’t believe people are whining about a gutsy ride. I haven’t seen a ride like that since AC popped his shoulder back in or CR22 after the chadapult. As fans that’s the stuff we root for an want to see. Guys laying it all on the line gutting out rides, not disqualifying him because it work out in his favor. Plus now the championship is close with 2 mains left. Who really wants to see JC win by 30 plus points.

Ya’ll are killing me
I haven't seen one person argue that Macadoo was not a complete badass to get up and race, or that his ride was one of the best we've seen based on his horrible crash. I don't think anyone would argue this...even the worst of the vitards would agree.

However, what people are objecting to is giving Mulligan's in racing. In other words, you shouldn't get a free gimee if you hit your ball in the lake. That's basically what happened tonight no matter how badass Macadoo was or how impressive his ride was.


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Falcon
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Falcon 4/13/2021 10:10pm
4/13/2021 10:10pm
I don't care. Cameron won a fan in me tonight. I thought he was going to win it for a minute there. That's tough as rusty nails!
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 4/13/2021 10:22pm
4/13/2021 10:22pm
You simply can Not allow it...

Why?

Ever watch soccer? Soon guys will do it on purpose for a restart.... sad, but it will get exploited if allowed
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C.Worthy
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C.Worthy 4/13/2021 10:33pm
4/13/2021 10:33pm
Since this has been the same rule forever and not new by any means. Why do people think that riders will exploit it from now on? Macadoo didn’t exploit any rules, the rule isn’t new, but all of a sudden from this point on riders will start fake falling for a better start like they could’ve been doing for years? Cool story. Next.

Macadoo is a bad ass and earned that finish. It just shows how much grit and talent he has. Awesome race!
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Black Diesel Bomber 4/13/2021 10:42pm
4/13/2021 10:42pm
How many times in history has a rider who is in a close championship battle and caused a red flag restarted the race and finished on the podium??
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kiwifan 4/13/2021 10:50pm
4/13/2021 10:50pm
If he is medically allowed to race after causing a red flag then why the fuck not ????
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captmoto
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captmoto 4/13/2021 11:13pm
4/13/2021 11:13pm
S.Loyer wrote:
Then he should of got up quicker, if the director makes the call then he must of been too injured to move sooner there for he...
Then he should of got up quicker, if the director makes the call then he must of been too injured to move sooner there for he should be out.
I think it has more to do with whether the medical can get to him safely. Sometimes they have to close the track to get people and equipment to an injured rider.
All that really has to be straight is the riders mental status. He did not appear to be knocked out. He was able to accurately describe his crash to the medical crew. He was good to go and is a complete bad ass.
psg119
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psg119 4/13/2021 11:19pm
4/13/2021 11:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2021 8:49am
As Berm said, the only reason he got to race was because it was a complete restart. If the doctor okayed it then he okayed it. I’m rooting for cooper but how could you not be impressed by that ride. That’s why we watch racing. F*ck the points if we got to see grit like that every weekend.
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