Motocross becoming supercross?

GForce MMG 4/7/2021 6:22am
4/7/2021 6:22am
At 55yrs I don't mind tracks having doubles/long tables for the advanced riders. What I hate is most tracks dish out the middle of the tables to physically punish not jumping them. Its as dangerous not jumping them as it is hucking them. Amateur motocross tracks should offer the option to be fun not just painful and dangerous.
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Crossup
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Crossup 4/7/2021 6:33am
4/7/2021 6:33am
ShawdowGlen wrote:
Bring back Saddleback.... [img]https://motocrossactionmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/warrenreidsuicidemountain1984.jpg[/img]
Bring back Saddleback....

I just watched an old Sears Point race from the late 70s with Roger DeCoster, Gaylon Mosier and a host of other guys. (Probably the same race that FTE took all those famous photos). I love Unadilla but that's Sears Point track is awesome.
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FWYT
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FWYT 4/7/2021 7:45am
4/7/2021 7:45am
Becoming? It's been this way for a long while.
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mattyhamz2 4/7/2021 7:58am
4/7/2021 7:58am
mxer192 wrote:
Maybe I'm an old soul but it seems motocross tracks these days are all about the big jumps. What happened to rough natural terrain hills. I...
Maybe I'm an old soul but it seems motocross tracks these days are all about the big jumps. What happened to rough natural terrain hills. I think we need to get back to old school motocross. Imo
Couldn't agree more and I'm 30.

What happened to rough natural terrain tracks is exactly what I said in the Carlsbad replica thread, at a LL Qualifier back in the early 10's, the parents and riders complained that the track got too rough. They whined and bitched that it was too dangerous to ride and that the track needed to be redone before anymore motos went off. Most of this coming from A and B riders and their parents. My dad was working the starting gate and told them this is motocross it's supposed to be rough so learn to ride it. He told me that night, that's when he knew we were no longer going to produce the fastest riders in the world and that we had become to pussified.

Everyone wants big peaky jumps so they can throw the bike sideways and make instabangers. I've seen dudes at local tracks jumps the biggest gnarliest jumps, but couldn't beat the local beginner class on race day.

As for me, I'll stick to riding Glen Helen when I can or go ride a nasty, dry, dusty, rough, thrashed desert track before I'll spend my money to ride some flat, wide open jumpy local track.
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Leeham
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Leeham 4/7/2021 10:40am
4/7/2021 10:40am Edited Date/Time 4/7/2021 10:41am
You will never please everyone and thats just a fact.

But to hate on tracks to have too many jumps? How many is too many? Or is it you dont have the guts to hit something bigger than 20ft? Also having long tracks with flowing natural terrain is a decent amount of up keep. Not to mention someone can hurt just as bad or worse in a rutted downhill/turn as a jump. (Eli Tomac 2015)

The guys who claim love rough tracks, get the Pro License and do some Nationals.
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 4/7/2021 10:53am
4/7/2021 10:53am
mxer192 wrote:
Maybe I'm an old soul but it seems motocross tracks these days are all about the big jumps. What happened to rough natural terrain hills. I...
Maybe I'm an old soul but it seems motocross tracks these days are all about the big jumps. What happened to rough natural terrain hills. I think we need to get back to old school motocross. Imo
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Couldn't agree more and I'm 30. What happened to rough natural terrain tracks is exactly what I said in the Carlsbad replica thread, at a LL...
Couldn't agree more and I'm 30.

What happened to rough natural terrain tracks is exactly what I said in the Carlsbad replica thread, at a LL Qualifier back in the early 10's, the parents and riders complained that the track got too rough. They whined and bitched that it was too dangerous to ride and that the track needed to be redone before anymore motos went off. Most of this coming from A and B riders and their parents. My dad was working the starting gate and told them this is motocross it's supposed to be rough so learn to ride it. He told me that night, that's when he knew we were no longer going to produce the fastest riders in the world and that we had become to pussified.

Everyone wants big peaky jumps so they can throw the bike sideways and make instabangers. I've seen dudes at local tracks jumps the biggest gnarliest jumps, but couldn't beat the local beginner class on race day.

As for me, I'll stick to riding Glen Helen when I can or go ride a nasty, dry, dusty, rough, thrashed desert track before I'll spend my money to ride some flat, wide open jumpy local track.
Same here. I'm 35 and do every jump on a mx track, but I prefer real motocross tracks with hills, off cambers, ruts, bumps, all of it. The rinky dink tracks these days are so tight and the jumps are mostly lame and tiny anyway. Bring back real MX. Unfortunately that's not what the practice track heroes are after. They want jumps jumps jumps so they can get a sick instabanger. Sad.
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racerxx276
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racerxx276 4/7/2021 10:56am
4/7/2021 10:56am
There is a reason why the GNCC race's attract 2000+ riders each event and the attendance of riders at MX tracks is down .
My local track is jump, jump, jump ,bowl turn, jump, jump, jump bowl turn. We are a whole generation removed from what moto used to be. RACING someone up a straightaway and outbraking them into the corner has been replaced with block passing , as it's the typically the only way to get by someone these days.

Southwick is one of the last national tracks that has few jumps and more on the ground time i.e. RACING!
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mattyhamz2 4/7/2021 11:01am
4/7/2021 11:01am
Leeham wrote:
You will never please everyone and thats just a fact. But to hate on tracks to have too many jumps? How many is too many? Or...
You will never please everyone and thats just a fact.

But to hate on tracks to have too many jumps? How many is too many? Or is it you dont have the guts to hit something bigger than 20ft? Also having long tracks with flowing natural terrain is a decent amount of up keep. Not to mention someone can hurt just as bad or worse in a rutted downhill/turn as a jump. (Eli Tomac 2015)

The guys who claim love rough tracks, get the Pro License and do some Nationals.
When tracks are: turn, jump jump, turn jump, turn jump jump jump, turn small straight jump jump jump, turn jump jump, turn jump jump jump, it gets old really fast.

For the record, I grew up riding Glen Helen on Thursday's during the nationals, beat up desert tracks, rode Budd's Creek the day after the 2001 National(the track was left unprepped because that's what we asked for) on my CR80. Rough beat up rutty tracks all day long for me any day of the week vs flat wide open tracks with jumps everywhere.
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Leeham
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Leeham 4/7/2021 11:08am
4/7/2021 11:08am
While I do prefer a more rough track to develop skills because I dont like a freeway track with no bumps. A lot of these establishments cant get the room to have long flowing corners and straights or at least where I live.
davistld01
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davistld01 4/7/2021 11:17am
4/7/2021 11:17am
sandman768 wrote:
It’s what the kids want now...
If the track wasn't SX styled and not uber-groomed...a lot of the younger riders wouldn't know how to navigate it.
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Falcon
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Falcon 4/7/2021 11:56am
4/7/2021 11:56am
I remember this same argument from back in 1987.
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 4/7/2021 12:57pm
4/7/2021 12:57pm
mxer192 wrote:
Maybe I'm an old soul but it seems motocross tracks these days are all about the big jumps. What happened to rough natural terrain hills. I...
Maybe I'm an old soul but it seems motocross tracks these days are all about the big jumps. What happened to rough natural terrain hills. I think we need to get back to old school motocross. Imo
lostboy819 wrote:
What happened to bikes with 6 inches of travel and 12 hp ? If the bikes we bought today were 6 inches of travel and 12...
What happened to bikes with 6 inches of travel and 12 hp ? If the bikes we bought today were 6 inches of travel and 12 hp we wouldn't have the big jumps and such. Sometimes getting too advanced in a sport hurts the grass roots part of the sport. Sad
Sounds like a KTM 50 SX.
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racerxx276
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racerxx276 4/7/2021 2:22pm
4/7/2021 2:22pm
if Supercross never came about we wouldn't have such big jumps either...
sandman768
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sandman768 4/7/2021 3:05pm
4/7/2021 3:05pm
Generational issue also. Most of us old guys grew up riding beat down practice tracks that never seen a tractor or dozer albeit once a year if lucky. MX to us was about rough tracks, line selection and fitness. Newer generation raised on groomed practice tracks, public tracks with equipment to build said jumps... I can see where a track owner has a small piece of flat land to work with, you have to make man made obstacles.... I like jumps also, especially the ones I can do... but I”ll take a rough natural terrain sand track please.....
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Brent
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Brent 4/7/2021 3:51pm
4/7/2021 3:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/7/2021 3:51pm
I just hit the biggest jump I think I have ever done today at the Lake Elsinore main track, the downhill floater.

I don't know how far it is but I felt like I was up with the skydiving airplanes that fly over the track. 4th gear almost full throttle.

I'm still alive.

Jumped that sucker for 8 laps after the first time I nutted up and finally did it - Next week I think can hit that thing every lap like the pro kids do.

Riding a track like this is sure fun when the fear goes away.


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seth505
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seth505 4/7/2021 4:28pm
4/7/2021 4:28pm
Unpopular opinion...if tracks were all bumps and turns I wouldn't have half as much fun (and I'm not even young).
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Motodave15
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Motodave15 4/7/2021 4:49pm
4/7/2021 4:49pm
Brent wrote:
I just hit the biggest jump I think I have ever done today at the Lake Elsinore main track, the downhill floater. I don't know how...
I just hit the biggest jump I think I have ever done today at the Lake Elsinore main track, the downhill floater.

I don't know how far it is but I felt like I was up with the skydiving airplanes that fly over the track. 4th gear almost full throttle.

I'm still alive.

Jumped that sucker for 8 laps after the first time I nutted up and finally did it - Next week I think can hit that thing every lap like the pro kids do.

Riding a track like this is sure fun when the fear goes away.


Bro that bish is huge!! I rode 1 lap around that track last week... and said Nope... back to the Vet and Intermediate tracks for me lol.
Spudnut
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Spudnut 4/7/2021 5:18pm
4/7/2021 5:18pm
Spudnut wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/04/06/486725/s1200_0B4240A0_CE28_498B_82E9_F53F80B6DBE7.jpg[/img]

TeamGreen wrote:
Yes please
Just in case anyone’s wondering...that is track 148 located at EC Motorsports Park in Lewiston Idaho

We also have OMC in Boise that’s got some decent elevation and a more natural feel to it.


Carry on
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McG194
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McG194 4/7/2021 5:52pm
4/7/2021 5:52pm
mxer192 wrote:
Maybe I'm an old soul but it seems motocross tracks these days are all about the big jumps. What happened to rough natural terrain hills. I...
Maybe I'm an old soul but it seems motocross tracks these days are all about the big jumps. What happened to rough natural terrain hills. I think we need to get back to old school motocross. Imo
This is a new phenomenon?

Hold on a sec, let me go look at some pictures from Red Bud or Kenworthy's in the early 90's.
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McG194
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McG194 4/7/2021 6:04pm
4/7/2021 6:04pm
racerxx276 wrote:
There is a reason why the GNCC race's attract 2000+ riders each event and the attendance of riders at MX tracks is down . My local...
There is a reason why the GNCC race's attract 2000+ riders each event and the attendance of riders at MX tracks is down .
My local track is jump, jump, jump ,bowl turn, jump, jump, jump bowl turn. We are a whole generation removed from what moto used to be. RACING someone up a straightaway and outbraking them into the corner has been replaced with block passing , as it's the typically the only way to get by someone these days.

Southwick is one of the last national tracks that has few jumps and more on the ground time i.e. RACING!
Funny thing is Hare Scrambles like GNCC are gnarlier than most motocross races. I race the FTR HS series down here in Florida and I probably average a crash every 2 laps. You may not be dealing with big booters but roots will grab ahold of your traction and put you on your head before you know it. Add in the fact that you are going as fast as you can through trees and not a wide mx track and the chance for bodily harm goes way up. Last week I spent 2 days at Pax and another day at another moto track and I didn't hit the ground one time.

xrmark
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xrmark 4/7/2021 6:32pm
4/7/2021 6:32pm
racerxx276 wrote:
There is a reason why the GNCC race's attract 2000+ riders each event and the attendance of riders at MX tracks is down . My local...
There is a reason why the GNCC race's attract 2000+ riders each event and the attendance of riders at MX tracks is down .
My local track is jump, jump, jump ,bowl turn, jump, jump, jump bowl turn. We are a whole generation removed from what moto used to be. RACING someone up a straightaway and outbraking them into the corner has been replaced with block passing , as it's the typically the only way to get by someone these days.

Southwick is one of the last national tracks that has few jumps and more on the ground time i.e. RACING!
Idk about you but here in SoCal MX track attendance has been at an all time high since like 2007. Dam near every track is a zoo every weekend
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hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 4/7/2021 6:59pm
4/7/2021 6:59pm
Like others in here have said Glen Helen is probably the best track we have in SoCal. Want rough? They got it. Want ruts? They got it. Want hills? They got it. Want a few fun jumps that are still challenging but under 100 feet? They have it. Was out there riding yesterday and had so much fun. I’m not into the parking lots with jumps thing but I guess most people out here are. Some of those jumps out at LACR and Pala are insane. But at the same time I guess the sport does have to evolve in some ways. Either way motocross in 2021 is great and we are lucky!
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xrmark
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xrmark 4/7/2021 8:04pm
4/7/2021 8:04pm
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Like others in here have said Glen Helen is probably the best track we have in SoCal. Want rough? They got it. Want ruts? They got...
Like others in here have said Glen Helen is probably the best track we have in SoCal. Want rough? They got it. Want ruts? They got it. Want hills? They got it. Want a few fun jumps that are still challenging but under 100 feet? They have it. Was out there riding yesterday and had so much fun. I’m not into the parking lots with jumps thing but I guess most people out here are. Some of those jumps out at LACR and Pala are insane. But at the same time I guess the sport does have to evolve in some ways. Either way motocross in 2021 is great and we are lucky!
LACR and Pala really aren’t bad at all. Nothing like the days of early 2000’s lake Elsinore and Sunrise. Perris was also pretty gnarly. Used to be like riding a supercross track. Mini night was terrifying.
Moto Nomad
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Moto Nomad 4/7/2021 11:21pm
4/7/2021 11:21pm
Falcon wrote:
I remember this same argument from back in 1987.
I'll put it at 1985-86. Grinning It was a scandal when moto tracks started putting in peaked doubles.
navalseabee
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navalseabee 4/8/2021 3:46am
4/8/2021 3:46am
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Like others in here have said Glen Helen is probably the best track we have in SoCal. Want rough? They got it. Want ruts? They got...
Like others in here have said Glen Helen is probably the best track we have in SoCal. Want rough? They got it. Want ruts? They got it. Want hills? They got it. Want a few fun jumps that are still challenging but under 100 feet? They have it. Was out there riding yesterday and had so much fun. I’m not into the parking lots with jumps thing but I guess most people out here are. Some of those jumps out at LACR and Pala are insane. But at the same time I guess the sport does have to evolve in some ways. Either way motocross in 2021 is great and we are lucky!
xrmark wrote:
LACR and Pala really aren’t bad at all. Nothing like the days of early 2000’s lake Elsinore and Sunrise. Perris was also pretty gnarly. Used to...
LACR and Pala really aren’t bad at all. Nothing like the days of early 2000’s lake Elsinore and Sunrise. Perris was also pretty gnarly. Used to be like riding a supercross track. Mini night was terrifying.
Riding Pala's main track 2010,2011,2012 was super fun, also really enjoyed Starwest around that time frame. People bitch all they want, but my guess is theyll be loading up this weekend to ride their local "supercross" mx track. Grinning Grinning Grinning
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Mugeneco 4/8/2021 6:34am
4/8/2021 6:34am
WCRider wrote:
I think supercross is the future of Motocross.
how many supercross tracks you got in Belgium ?
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mxer192
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mxer192 4/8/2021 7:23am
4/8/2021 7:23am
i understand everyone's opinion. maybe i should revise what i originally said. i don't mind the jumps but what i do mind is big doubles or jumps that if you don't make it you can get seriously hurt. it seems in the northeast tracks are getting more and more do or die jumps. make jumps for every skills level to hit. you can make a big table or a triple step up and a beginner rider can still hit them. or how about some rollers where you can double double or triple triple or even quad if your feeling froggy, but make tracks so every skill level can learn and do jumps.
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hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 4/8/2021 8:31am
4/8/2021 8:31am
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Like others in here have said Glen Helen is probably the best track we have in SoCal. Want rough? They got it. Want ruts? They got...
Like others in here have said Glen Helen is probably the best track we have in SoCal. Want rough? They got it. Want ruts? They got it. Want hills? They got it. Want a few fun jumps that are still challenging but under 100 feet? They have it. Was out there riding yesterday and had so much fun. I’m not into the parking lots with jumps thing but I guess most people out here are. Some of those jumps out at LACR and Pala are insane. But at the same time I guess the sport does have to evolve in some ways. Either way motocross in 2021 is great and we are lucky!
xrmark wrote:
LACR and Pala really aren’t bad at all. Nothing like the days of early 2000’s lake Elsinore and Sunrise. Perris was also pretty gnarly. Used to...
LACR and Pala really aren’t bad at all. Nothing like the days of early 2000’s lake Elsinore and Sunrise. Perris was also pretty gnarly. Used to be like riding a supercross track. Mini night was terrifying.
Speak for yourself. Every time I try to ride the LACR main I swear the jumps get bigger. I can’t get a good lap in on that track
mattyhamz2 4/8/2021 8:41am
4/8/2021 8:41am
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Like others in here have said Glen Helen is probably the best track we have in SoCal. Want rough? They got it. Want ruts? They got...
Like others in here have said Glen Helen is probably the best track we have in SoCal. Want rough? They got it. Want ruts? They got it. Want hills? They got it. Want a few fun jumps that are still challenging but under 100 feet? They have it. Was out there riding yesterday and had so much fun. I’m not into the parking lots with jumps thing but I guess most people out here are. Some of those jumps out at LACR and Pala are insane. But at the same time I guess the sport does have to evolve in some ways. Either way motocross in 2021 is great and we are lucky!
xrmark wrote:
LACR and Pala really aren’t bad at all. Nothing like the days of early 2000’s lake Elsinore and Sunrise. Perris was also pretty gnarly. Used to...
LACR and Pala really aren’t bad at all. Nothing like the days of early 2000’s lake Elsinore and Sunrise. Perris was also pretty gnarly. Used to be like riding a supercross track. Mini night was terrifying.
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Speak for yourself. Every time I try to ride the LACR main I swear the jumps get bigger. I can’t get a good lap in on...
Speak for yourself. Every time I try to ride the LACR main I swear the jumps get bigger. I can’t get a good lap in on that track
Yup. I'm sorry, but it's the closest track to me and I refuse to go. It's flat, wide open, no bumps, no ruts and lap times are barely 1:35-1:40 for the average guy. The vet track isn't any better with even faster lap times and way too over crowded. That place really does have so much potential, but they refuse to do anything else to the track. They won't rip it deep because they said their regular guys complain that it gets too rough and won't come back. I'd rather drive the extra time to go to GH or Cal City. Cal City at least changes their track up and their dirt is WAAAAY better. American MX is high on my priority list, I just haven't been able to make it out there yet.

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