Time for this in our sport.

tingo
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1/29/2021 7:42am
More Deegan? No thanks, he was obnoxious the first go round.
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mac3-d
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IE
1/29/2021 7:45am
so does anybody know if mechanics put on their riders board ?

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duckdog77
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Laotto, IN, USA
1/29/2021 8:14am
I could def use this for riding behind the house. That way my wife could let me know when dinners ready. Sometimes I come in too early and have to help finish dinner and set the table.
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EngIceDave
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Merritt Island, FL, USA
1/29/2021 8:19am
slipdog wrote:
I've been using one the last few weeks with my son and he really likes it. Honestly I do too because it's easy to convey calm...
I've been using one the last few weeks with my son and he really likes it. Honestly I do too because it's easy to convey calm instructions without yelling from the side of the track shit your kid can't really understand anyway.

I left it in the gearbag this weekend at the races though. He asked why and i just told him on raceday it's time for him to apply what we practiced on his own.
Good strategy
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The Shop

BroFoSho
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Tucson, AZ, USA
1/29/2021 8:24am
DK23 wrote:
I think the negative aspect posted before is the cost to privateers. Sure the factory guys can afford them and have someone on the other end...
I think the negative aspect posted before is the cost to privateers. Sure the factory guys can afford them and have someone on the other end, but not so much for the guys living out of a van. Who, by the way, would need it the most since they are the ones usually getting lapped. At least when lap times were in the high 50 seconds.
They are 1/5 the cost of an exhaust system...
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SmokinJoe439
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Renton, WA, USA
1/29/2021 8:38am
Been using the sena coms on our street bike rides for many years. Here it's great if someone breaks down. See's something in the road you can communicate your moves. It's not distracting when the 3 of us are riding along and chatting.
Wish we would have gotten them sooner for our street rides can't go without them now.

It could be a benefit for moto once you get used to it. The it's a distraction part of it goes away quick.
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1/29/2021 8:41am
DK23 wrote:
I think the negative aspect posted before is the cost to privateers. Sure the factory guys can afford them and have someone on the other end...
I think the negative aspect posted before is the cost to privateers. Sure the factory guys can afford them and have someone on the other end, but not so much for the guys living out of a van. Who, by the way, would need it the most since they are the ones usually getting lapped. At least when lap times were in the high 50 seconds.
Privateers living out of vans pretty much went away in the 70s and 80s and the roughing era for the poor privateer is long gone. If communication was legal in competition every single rider at a national would be wired up. Its funny how all these privateers who make zero profit and could not even begin to pay the bills by racing are still on the track until they get bored and quit or get a real job, racing is not a poor mans sport and if you are racing then you have disposable income so lets give the talk about the poor privateer a rest. Sick
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Question
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1/29/2021 9:06am
Just for a safety purpose I agree, for instance just this year when Sexton jumped while the race was red flag at H1, or when he was down at H2, then with Deano at H3. We only have that many chances, several times disasters have been avoided just by luck. Not sure if eventually that is not even the goal, drama, using fresh meat, sometimes we can also wonder (i.e. mandatory body armor?).

As for regular riding advices? Here I am really not sure. It is not for everyone and I am sure it takes time to get used to it to stay focused while communicating.





DonM
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Fantasy
1/29/2021 9:36am
Zaugg wrote:
I love how all these opinions regarding NASCAR or F1 are discounted for various reason yet I doubt many of you have driven in F1 or...
I love how all these opinions regarding NASCAR or F1 are discounted for various reason yet I doubt many of you have driven in F1 or NASCAR or any other sport where comms are used.

Until any of you have driven at 100+mph going four wide into turn one at COTA- you have no room to talk about distractions, what is required for concentration, or whether or not comms work. (I have and believe me, the intensity is pretty much at or above the same level as any MX race I've raced.)

So we don't look at it because you're worried about
A. distractions
B. Cost to Privateers
C. Mini Dads yelling at their kids.
(There are ways to control all these perceived end-of-the-world negatives.)

How can you possibly draw any conclusions without testing the idea first? Oh yeah - we jump to conclusions without data and those anecdotal conclusions become fact. (Thanks FACEBAG/ TWITTER/ ALL SOCIAL MEDIA.)

Solution: Develop guidelines and then test. (I'm sure most riders would opt out because they're worried about people talking in their ear at the wrong time yet they've never tried it.) At the pro level - if you can't afford $250 in radios, how the hell can you justify racing. If comms are part of racing and makes the racing safer - which is does - it's like having an approved helmet or using approved fuel. It's the cost of doing business.

God forbid we try to make improvements to MX/SX. The reason our sport isn't growing is because we're so locked into not changing. Meanwhile the rest of the racing world is adapting and changing without us. (Please see Flat Track Racing)

I say we test it out. I for one think it would improve safety because you're not relying on the racer to see a flag (Red/ Yellow/ Blue or otherwise). Race control TELLS you to slow down, not jump, etc or you're penalized, black flagged, or something else. Will it solve the problem of lap traffic. Nope but it will help and it will make racing SAFER!!!

From a spectator perspective, being able to hear comms between mechanic and rider would be a great way to add value to the viewing audience.

Google - Kimi Raikkonen radio comms and then imagine Philthy Phil over the radio. Ratings GOLD.

Davey stated in this thread they have been tested numerous times. They are also allowed at Monster Cup and most teams didn't use them anyway, so...
Davey stated in this thread they have been tested numerous times. They are also allowed at Monster Cup and most teams didn't use them anyway, so that should tell you something. He also made a good point.....Use them for training and practicing, but not competition. Sounds simple to me.
In 1988.....Kawi tested it with Jeff Ward before the AMA banned it because the cost would be too expensive for privateers...but today we have the factories with multiple spotters with radio communication to help the mechanic with their rider....do the privateers have that....no...so what’s the difference? I say with the technology we have available today let’s test it and let the riders decide..
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JustMX
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1/29/2021 1:07pm
Bultaco wrote:
A radio in the helmet would have only helped the Deano/Roczen situation if Deano heard and chose to act on the information. Not that anyone cares...
A radio in the helmet would have only helped the Deano/Roczen situation if Deano heard and chose to act on the information.

Not that anyone cares, but I ride and race a dirt bike to get away the noise and clutter of the world. No way I bring it into my helmet with me.
if anybody was upset about dean wilson getting in roczen's way when h simply held his line, imagine how it is going to be when a rider has problems and becomes a backmarker and has a spotter that tries to use them to interfere with a competitor on a different team in a tight points battle.

"cut left now"

"take outside line in the next corner"

etc

Spare me the point that stuff ike this hasnt been happening since the "let broc bye" incident.

Situations like marvin moving out of dungey's way or savatgy letting tomac by for the win at monster cup would become much more frequent with team orders mid race.

now, if you want to let race officials do crash reports with a section number over a common frequency, then that might be a help with safety.

it would require riders and safety spotters to study track drawings and memorize turn numbers and jump names so they would know immediately where a problem is.
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1/29/2021 7:12pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2021 7:12pm
DC wrote:
"You either hit this triple or we're going home... Did you not hear me?! Now twist it! Go, go! Wait, go left, he's right behind you...
"You either hit this triple or we're going home... Did you not hear me?! Now twist it! Go, go! Wait, go left, he's right behind you! Sorry. Just pin it through these whoops like I'm telling you, you'll be fine..."

For what it's worth, even in the NFL, where they have limited coms with one player on each side of the football, they shut the headset off as soon as the QB breaks the huddle. I think coms are good for practice and training sessions, especially at places with plenty of traffic but without flaggers, but in an actual race it seems like it could cause as many problems as it's supposed to help.

DC
Racer X
EngIceDave wrote:
I agree. I know we both have seen some overzealous parents say some crazy things to their kids, and to think of them saying that into...
I agree.
I know we both have seen some overzealous parents say some crazy things to their kids, and to think of them saying that into an ear piece is just scary.

That's reality

I have seen mini dads reduce their kids to tears because they didn't jump something. I have heard parents say HORRIBLE things to their kids at LL's and other Am Nationals.

Seen it at local and national level.

Even famous names you know
As has been pointed out to you already, this would be for pros only. And the communications could be limited and restricted to only flagging and/or safety issues. This is not the slippery slope some of you are making it out to be.
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ShawdowGlen
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La Mesa, CA, USA
1/29/2021 10:43pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2021 10:43pm
Tech ruins everything. I vote NO.

Flame on....

tobz
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1/29/2021 11:21pm
Yeeeah wE’Ll rAcE RyDerD. We’ll gEt ThEre
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Boira
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1/30/2021 1:08am
I have not seen the flags
I have not heard the radio .....

If Wilson didn't "hear" Roczen's screams, would he listen to the radio?

In Spain there is a saying that says: there is no worse deaf than the one who does not want to hear
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EngIceDave
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1/30/2021 5:00am
As has been pointed out to you already, this would be for pros only. And the communications could be limited and restricted to only flagging and/or...
As has been pointed out to you already, this would be for pros only. And the communications could be limited and restricted to only flagging and/or safety issues. This is not the slippery slope some of you are making it out to be.
Go to that Berik Boot thread, in it, a young man says he wore those janky boots because RC did.

If Eli is doing it, every dad will be looking into it

If AC9 is doing it, every kid will be looking into it

Forget what the rulebooks say, they're not standing at the local track or local outlaw/non-AMA track, or during training days like you saw with Deegan.
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DoctorJD
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Somewhere in..., GA, USA
1/30/2021 5:48am
Alan Dove wrote:
Honestly why you'd want to remove the raw pure human edge SX/MX has over other forms of motorsport like F1 is beyond me. Sometimes I wonder...
Honestly why you'd want to remove the raw pure human edge SX/MX has over other forms of motorsport like F1 is beyond me.

Sometimes I wonder if you really understand what you've got. You literally have what is probably the highest level of motorsport competition in the world. Way beyond F1 and all the other headline series (bar maybe MotoGP) and you want to soften it up with radio comms?



"Raw human edge"? Some guy communicating on a dry erase board? What is so compelling about pit board communications? That is, aside from, "Let Brock Bye". So here's my logic. The powers-that-be have decided that jumping on a red-cross situation is so egregious that they'll dock a rider valuable championship points for doing so. That's pretty extreme, but I think it's warranted given the nature of the situation.

Now stay with me on this one: Imagine, if you could avoid the situation altogether by letting the rider know in advance there was a dangerous situation ahead. Maybe even before the flaggers got there. "Rider down in first rhythm section, right side!. Cross flag out". I'm not suggesting that there be a freaking therapy session during the race, just some baseline information. Let the teams and riders decide what that information is. Allow the rider deem what is necessary beyond basic safety.

Right now, it seems like people are valuing tradition over progression and rider safety. And don't give me that sh*t about how dangerous it is to have someone talking while riding. Almost every form of motorsport has coms. If an F1 driver can communicate doing 160 around a corner, then a motocrosser should be able to listen to simple, basic, information during a race.
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kkawboy14
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1/30/2021 6:11am
So your locked in and can’t hear anything? Why have a pit board then?
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Alan Dove
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1/30/2021 6:27am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2021 6:44am
DoctorJD wrote:
"Raw human edge"? Some guy communicating on a dry erase board? What is so compelling about pit board communications? That is, aside from, "Let Brock Bye"...
"Raw human edge"? Some guy communicating on a dry erase board? What is so compelling about pit board communications? That is, aside from, "Let Brock Bye". So here's my logic. The powers-that-be have decided that jumping on a red-cross situation is so egregious that they'll dock a rider valuable championship points for doing so. That's pretty extreme, but I think it's warranted given the nature of the situation.

Now stay with me on this one: Imagine, if you could avoid the situation altogether by letting the rider know in advance there was a dangerous situation ahead. Maybe even before the flaggers got there. "Rider down in first rhythm section, right side!. Cross flag out". I'm not suggesting that there be a freaking therapy session during the race, just some baseline information. Let the teams and riders decide what that information is. Allow the rider deem what is necessary beyond basic safety.

Right now, it seems like people are valuing tradition over progression and rider safety. And don't give me that sh*t about how dangerous it is to have someone talking while riding. Almost every form of motorsport has coms. If an F1 driver can communicate doing 160 around a corner, then a motocrosser should be able to listen to simple, basic, information during a race.
Firstly F1 drivers generally communicate on straights and complain about getting messages in corners. And an F1 car is infinitely less complex to navigate a circuit with than a dirt bike on a supercross track. A Grand Prix is 2 hours long and the drivers are never exhausted when they leave the car. I am not sure you guys realise that dirtbikes is in a different stratosphere from a physical perspective. I do karting which some F1 drivers say is more physical (it's not 1:1 of course, but a high grip kart will destroy you) - https://www.news24.com/wheels/formulaone/karting-now-physically-harder-… - and riding a dirtbike at a high level I can't even begin to commute how they do it. This is born out by the fact drivers can stay in F1 into their 40s without it being too much of a problem from a physical standpoint.

Karting is a better thing to compare to, and we have zero need for radio comms.

Secondly, in F1 the warning systems are still primarily flag based. What F1 does better is that run on dedicated tracks where the marshalling system is better organised. The prpblem at Houston 2 was that the marshalls were not organised properly. There should have been a medical flag in the previous marshall position as well.

In addition the problem with the medical flag was that in car/kart racing that'd be an immediate red flag.. By trying to emulate F1 what you are asking for is not radio messages, but a wholesale change to supercross. In fact I would argue that with the levels of injuries and risk involved, if that was replicated in the 4-wheel arena you wouldn't even get a permit to race. You are unknowingly asking for the end of supercross. The jump was the problem if we want to go fundemental. Remove jumps totally? Or do you value tradition over rider safety?
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Zycki11
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Edwardsville, IL, USA
1/30/2021 7:16am
soggy wrote:
Helmet comms are a slippery slope. If it’s just used for lap times/position/rider safety that’s be fine but it be hard to police them not being...
Helmet comms are a slippery slope. If it’s just used for lap times/position/rider safety that’s be fine but it be hard to police them not being used for race tactics. The race should be between the racer his bike and the other racers there bikes. Bringing helmet comms in would really change race strategy I think.
DonM wrote:
If NASCAR can police radio communications on 30+ cars going 200mph I think the AMA could do the same for 22 riders on a SX track....Oh...
If NASCAR can police radio communications on 30+ cars going 200mph I think the AMA could do the same for 22 riders on a SX track....Oh wait....AMA...never mind bad idea....
Sorry, just spit my coffee out. Are we talking about the same AMA?
Borthwick203
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10
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Location
Chatham, MA, USA
1/31/2021 10:22am
pretty sure the communication is limited to:

race director reporting traffic/flag conditions

the only time you would hear the radio is when
) there is an accident on the track
) yellow/red/black flags are out
) leaders passing
etc

there wouldnt be any crews communicating with the riders.

but i would want the ability to radio communicate
hey get the 8mm ready. i want to come in for fuel. whats my lead on the person behind me?

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EngIceDave
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Location
Merritt Island, FL, USA
1/31/2021 11:39am
DoctorJD wrote:
"Raw human edge"? Some guy communicating on a dry erase board? What is so compelling about pit board communications? That is, aside from, "Let Brock Bye"...
"Raw human edge"? Some guy communicating on a dry erase board? What is so compelling about pit board communications? That is, aside from, "Let Brock Bye". So here's my logic. The powers-that-be have decided that jumping on a red-cross situation is so egregious that they'll dock a rider valuable championship points for doing so. That's pretty extreme, but I think it's warranted given the nature of the situation.

Now stay with me on this one: Imagine, if you could avoid the situation altogether by letting the rider know in advance there was a dangerous situation ahead. Maybe even before the flaggers got there. "Rider down in first rhythm section, right side!. Cross flag out". I'm not suggesting that there be a freaking therapy session during the race, just some baseline information. Let the teams and riders decide what that information is. Allow the rider deem what is necessary beyond basic safety.

Right now, it seems like people are valuing tradition over progression and rider safety. And don't give me that sh*t about how dangerous it is to have someone talking while riding. Almost every form of motorsport has coms. If an F1 driver can communicate doing 160 around a corner, then a motocrosser should be able to listen to simple, basic, information during a race.
Jumping on a red-cross situation isn't egregious enough to dock a rider championship points?

Then what is?

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