Savatgy on red

aeffertz
Posts
12375
Joined
7/16/2015
Location
La Crosse, WI US
10/20/2020 5:27pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Yes, Hill will be back.

Seven wasn’t the reason for the split.
I get playing hardball but man, you gotta have a solid back up plan if they can’t offer you what you want...

You’re only worth as much as someone will pay you, right?
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yurcho44
Posts
255
Joined
12/17/2013
Location
Fullerton, CA US
10/20/2020 5:29pm
Both Hill and Boyle do not deserve rides on MCR and BTO. Hill is not motivated at all ever since he won his lites championship. And Bogle can never get up to 100% due to injuries. I can think of a lot of dudes that deserve those rides over them.
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13
TeamGreen
Posts
36519
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11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
10/20/2020 5:35pm
yurcho44 wrote:
Both Hill and Boyle do not deserve rides on MCR and BTO. Hill is not motivated at all ever since he won his lites championship. And...
Both Hill and Boyle do not deserve rides on MCR and BTO. Hill is not motivated at all ever since he won his lites championship. And Bogle can never get up to 100% due to injuries. I can think of a lot of dudes that deserve those rides over them.
Boyle...?
BTO...?
Laughing
25
haydos25
Posts
1688
Joined
8/4/2010
Location
Sydney AU
10/20/2020 5:37pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2020 5:44pm
yurcho44 wrote:
Both Hill and Boyle do not deserve rides on MCR and BTO. Hill is not motivated at all ever since he won his lites championship. And...
Both Hill and Boyle do not deserve rides on MCR and BTO. Hill is not motivated at all ever since he won his lites championship. And Bogle can never get up to 100% due to injuries. I can think of a lot of dudes that deserve those rides over them.
Deserve is a very subjective term and you're only taking a few of the things that teams look for into account and leaving out other important pieces to the puzzle.
Things like, price, personality, how they fit into the team, how easy they are to work with, whether your sponsors like them, potentially if they bring a sponsor with them etc. etc.

The other thing is if you're looking at results only, then both Hill and Bogle have won before. Not many of the "deserving" riders can say that.


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1

The Shop

mb60
Posts
5570
Joined
3/7/2010
Location
GRAPEVINE, TX US
10/20/2020 6:15pm
Good 2 guys I don't like on the same team. Takes the suspense out of rooting for different teams. Lol
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Gilby122
Posts
347
Joined
4/29/2014
Location
WY US
10/20/2020 6:44pm
Appears Bloss was there too if it hasn’t been mentioned.


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yurcho44
Posts
255
Joined
12/17/2013
Location
Fullerton, CA US
10/20/2020 6:51pm
yurcho44 wrote:
Both Hill and Boyle do not deserve rides on MCR and BTO. Hill is not motivated at all ever since he won his lites championship. And...
Both Hill and Boyle do not deserve rides on MCR and BTO. Hill is not motivated at all ever since he won his lites championship. And Bogle can never get up to 100% due to injuries. I can think of a lot of dudes that deserve those rides over them.
haydos25 wrote:
Deserve is a very subjective term and you're only taking a few of the things that teams look for into account and leaving out other important...
Deserve is a very subjective term and you're only taking a few of the things that teams look for into account and leaving out other important pieces to the puzzle.
Things like, price, personality, how they fit into the team, how easy they are to work with, whether your sponsors like them, potentially if they bring a sponsor with them etc. etc.

The other thing is if you're looking at results only, then both Hill and Bogle have won before. Not many of the "deserving" riders can say that.


Tickle, Malcom, McElrath, brayton, Benny Bloss, Noren, Savatgy.

Just to name a few that have good personalities, low price. Most of these guys have won races at some point in their careers.

I just don’t see why a team like MCR would sign Hill. Dude always has an excuse. And for Bogle I like him but he can’t stay healthy and it seems like that team is always needing a fill in ride for him. At some point a team needs to realize when to let go. Sponsors aren’t happy if the rider is hurt and the bike isn’t out on the track. JMO
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3
scootch
Posts
608
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1/24/2017
Location
Fort Worth, TX US
10/20/2020 7:25pm
Mookie was the best of the rest on more than a few occasions this past SX season. You people saying he was out of shape and didn’t show any speed are absolutely clueless
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2
ktmwoods
Posts
329
Joined
9/10/2008
Location
abilene, TX US
10/20/2020 7:34pm
Was riding at State Fair today and watched both for a bit. Nobody was putting in heaters just looked like a familiarize with the ride session. Not much activity with settings, suspension, etc just getting in laps. Dirt was primo btw
1
Myke
Posts
2500
Joined
9/28/2009
Location
San Diego, CA US
10/20/2020 7:38pm
Gilby122 wrote:
Appears Bloss was there too if it hasn’t been mentioned. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/10/20/455209/s1200_7C4A70C8_14CC_4554_9803_A04B99EE1CA5.jpg[/img]
Appears Bloss was there too if it hasn’t been mentioned.


Who is on the '21?
10/20/2020 7:40pm
Interesting.

is Hill coming back?
UpTiTe wrote:
Yes, Hill will be back.

Seven wasn’t the reason for the split.
TeamGreen wrote:
"Personalities"?
Tony is loyal and expects it back.
1
2
Mavetism
Posts
5678
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
Hannover DE
10/20/2020 7:42pm
Gilby122 wrote:
Appears Bloss was there too if it hasn’t been mentioned. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/10/20/455209/s1200_7C4A70C8_14CC_4554_9803_A04B99EE1CA5.jpg[/img]
Appears Bloss was there too if it hasn’t been mentioned.


Bloss again testing them 85 Hondas, good for him!
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3
-MAVERICK-
Posts
65239
Joined
3/26/2015
Location
Ontario CA
10/20/2020 7:57pm
Gilby122 wrote:
Appears Bloss was there too if it hasn’t been mentioned. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/10/20/455209/s1200_7C4A70C8_14CC_4554_9803_A04B99EE1CA5.jpg[/img]
Appears Bloss was there too if it hasn’t been mentioned.


Myke wrote:
Who is on the '21?
Friese.
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Dutch348
Posts
261
Joined
12/25/2014
Location
US
10/20/2020 8:03pm
He’s a perfect fit for that team 😂
1
1
Sully
Posts
9147
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Location
JP
10/20/2020 8:27pm
yurcho44 wrote:
Both Hill and Boyle do not deserve rides on MCR and BTO. Hill is not motivated at all ever since he won his lites championship. And...
Both Hill and Boyle do not deserve rides on MCR and BTO. Hill is not motivated at all ever since he won his lites championship. And Bogle can never get up to 100% due to injuries. I can think of a lot of dudes that deserve those rides over them.
haydos25 wrote:
Deserve is a very subjective term and you're only taking a few of the things that teams look for into account and leaving out other important...
Deserve is a very subjective term and you're only taking a few of the things that teams look for into account and leaving out other important pieces to the puzzle.
Things like, price, personality, how they fit into the team, how easy they are to work with, whether your sponsors like them, potentially if they bring a sponsor with them etc. etc.

The other thing is if you're looking at results only, then both Hill and Bogle have won before. Not many of the "deserving" riders can say that.


yurcho44 wrote:
Tickle, Malcom, McElrath, brayton, Benny Bloss, Noren, Savatgy. Just to name a few that have good personalities, low price. Most of these guys have won races...
Tickle, Malcom, McElrath, brayton, Benny Bloss, Noren, Savatgy.

Just to name a few that have good personalities, low price. Most of these guys have won races at some point in their careers.

I just don’t see why a team like MCR would sign Hill. Dude always has an excuse. And for Bogle I like him but he can’t stay healthy and it seems like that team is always needing a fill in ride for him. At some point a team needs to realize when to let go. Sponsors aren’t happy if the rider is hurt and the bike isn’t out on the track. JMO
From reading Vital and Racer X:

Tickle – no idea where he'll end up
Mookie – priced himself out of the MCR ride
McElrath – supposedly in talks with HEP Suzuki
Brayton – already riding for Penrite Honda
Bloss - was at the MCR test with Savatgy, so they obviously have an eye on him
Noren - no idea where he'll end up
Savatgy – See Bloss above
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snackfedbear
Posts
1060
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10/18/2016
Location
Southern, CA US
10/20/2020 9:02pm
I don’t really get the point of them testing the bike you’re most likely not going to race though. Weird strategy
1
Mxracer607
Posts
212
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2/9/2018
Location
Fair Oaks, CA US
10/20/2020 9:08pm
Uh oh 17 pager
6
ML512
Posts
16855
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Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
10/20/2020 9:24pm
I don’t really get the point of them testing the bike you’re most likely not going to race though. Weird strategy
Friese will race 21 as development guy and the other two will race 20s.
20
1
haydos25
Posts
1688
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8/4/2010
Location
Sydney AU
10/20/2020 9:29pm
ML512 wrote:
Friese will race 21 as development guy and the other two will race 20s.
That's odd to me. If the 21 is supposed to be better than the 20's then why are the fast guys not on it? Basically admitting its not as good and that they need a "development" rider just to catch them up to where they're at currently?

There's 3 months till the season starts, can they not develop a bike in that time or is it that far off?

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10
OLDMOTO
Posts
467
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3/20/2019
Location
San Diego, CA US
10/20/2020 9:42pm
ML512 wrote:
Friese will race 21 as development guy and the other two will race 20s.
haydos25 wrote:
That's odd to me. If the 21 is supposed to be better than the 20's then why are the fast guys not on it? Basically admitting...
That's odd to me. If the 21 is supposed to be better than the 20's then why are the fast guys not on it? Basically admitting its not as good and that they need a "development" rider just to catch them up to where they're at currently?

There's 3 months till the season starts, can they not develop a bike in that time or is it that far off?

Maybe they only have one 2021 at the moment.
3
2
chasetwo79
Posts
1563
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12/1/2019
Location
Truckee, CA, CA US
10/20/2020 9:48pm
ML512 wrote:
Friese will race 21 as development guy and the other two will race 20s.
haydos25 wrote:
That's odd to me. If the 21 is supposed to be better than the 20's then why are the fast guys not on it? Basically admitting...
That's odd to me. If the 21 is supposed to be better than the 20's then why are the fast guys not on it? Basically admitting its not as good and that they need a "development" rider just to catch them up to where they're at currently?

There's 3 months till the season starts, can they not develop a bike in that time or is it that far off?

Is three months long enough to catch up to years of testing the previous platform? Probably not. They have to put out the most competitive bike possible under the rules. Usually contingency and support pays bikes up to 2 years old. I’m sure they have a similar agreement in place.

This is the new Honda platform for the next 3-4 years. They are going to end up on it eventually, but you can’t fault them if the bike is totally different starting point from the previous platform.
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1
Kyle978
Posts
1693
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10/7/2013
Location
Dirt, NM US
10/20/2020 9:51pm
haydos25 wrote:
That's odd to me. If the 21 is supposed to be better than the 20's then why are the fast guys not on it? Basically admitting...
That's odd to me. If the 21 is supposed to be better than the 20's then why are the fast guys not on it? Basically admitting its not as good and that they need a "development" rider just to catch them up to where they're at currently?

There's 3 months till the season starts, can they not develop a bike in that time or is it that far off?

Clearly you have no idea the insane amounts of man hours involved and twists and turns that arise when developing an entirely new machine.

MCR had the 20’s pretty damn dialed, 3 months is not much time when you only have 1 rider locked in at the moment.
3
2
haydos25
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1688
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Location
Sydney AU
10/20/2020 9:53pm
chasetwo79 wrote:
Is three months long enough to catch up to years of testing the previous platform? Probably not. They have to put out the most competitive bike...
Is three months long enough to catch up to years of testing the previous platform? Probably not. They have to put out the most competitive bike possible under the rules. Usually contingency and support pays bikes up to 2 years old. I’m sure they have a similar agreement in place.

This is the new Honda platform for the next 3-4 years. They are going to end up on it eventually, but you can’t fault them if the bike is totally different starting point from the previous platform.
Yeah true. Just makes you wonder, would 3 test riders get it up to speed faster than one? May not be better right now but I assume Honda are under the impression it will be better at some point in the near future, why not bite the bullet and go all in.

Unless like mentioned earlier, they don't have enough bikes and or parts for all of them just yet.
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3
yz133rider
Posts
5033
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8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA US
10/20/2020 9:55pm
chasetwo79 wrote:
Is three months long enough to catch up to years of testing the previous platform? Probably not. They have to put out the most competitive bike...
Is three months long enough to catch up to years of testing the previous platform? Probably not. They have to put out the most competitive bike possible under the rules. Usually contingency and support pays bikes up to 2 years old. I’m sure they have a similar agreement in place.

This is the new Honda platform for the next 3-4 years. They are going to end up on it eventually, but you can’t fault them if the bike is totally different starting point from the previous platform.
haydos25 wrote:
Yeah true. Just makes you wonder, would 3 test riders get it up to speed faster than one? May not be better right now but I...
Yeah true. Just makes you wonder, would 3 test riders get it up to speed faster than one? May not be better right now but I assume Honda are under the impression it will be better at some point in the near future, why not bite the bullet and go all in.

Unless like mentioned earlier, they don't have enough bikes and or parts for all of them just yet.
I’m betting it was Honda’s call, and the testing isn’t necessarily for mcr as much as it is for Honda themselves.
1
2
haydos25
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Sydney AU
10/20/2020 9:58pm
Kyle978 wrote:
Clearly you have no idea the insane amounts of man hours involved and twists and turns that arise when developing an entirely new machine. MCR had...
Clearly you have no idea the insane amounts of man hours involved and twists and turns that arise when developing an entirely new machine.

MCR had the 20’s pretty damn dialed, 3 months is not much time when you only have 1 rider locked in at the moment.
Is 3 months enough time when you have 3 riders to test? Or at least 2 as people are saying that Hill is a goer there again. What about Factory Honda? I assume they're testing also, are they not funnelling down some info at all? If theyre not do you think it may be because MCR aren't actually riding the new product that Honda are trying to sell?

You're right I have no idea. Which is why i'm asking the question. Maybe its a money thing for MCR. They probably have an excess of parts from the last couple of years they want to burn through before moving to the new bike? MCR operate differently to most, which is why these are all questions.
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2
Kyle978
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Dirt, NM US
10/20/2020 10:10pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2020 10:57pm
haydos25 wrote:
Is 3 months enough time when you have 3 riders to test? Or at least 2 as people are saying that Hill is a goer there...
Is 3 months enough time when you have 3 riders to test? Or at least 2 as people are saying that Hill is a goer there again. What about Factory Honda? I assume they're testing also, are they not funnelling down some info at all? If theyre not do you think it may be because MCR aren't actually riding the new product that Honda are trying to sell?

You're right I have no idea. Which is why i'm asking the question. Maybe its a money thing for MCR. They probably have an excess of parts from the last couple of years they want to burn through before moving to the new bike? MCR operate differently to most, which is why these are all questions.
Fair enough, innocent question. I apologize if I came off harsh.

The reality is they have 3 months to:

- Figure out who their riders are, sign them
-Acquire enough 21 motorcycles for 3 riders to test, practice and race. That could be 5+ motorcycles per rider
1-2 months minimum of riding 3-4 times a week, 10 hour days simply testing. All while working around their training, injuries, off season races etc.
- Order parts for 2021 - many parts can’t be ordered until settings are finalized
- Get parts, continue to test and refine - which means less time the rider can worry about his riding, and more time becoming a mental train wreck because they aren’t test riders and don’t actually know what they want
- Shake down/durability test

All while worrying about big picture things like:

Mechanics/team personnel
Sponsors/budget
Semi truck driver, wrap, parts organization etc
Ordering all new team stuff like shirts awnings etc.
Travel for everyone on team
Photo shoots
Sponsor obligations/meetings

I could keep going, you get the picture. A true factory team has way more people to handle each part of the operation. A team like MCR has a few guys wearing a lot of hats, it makes sense why they would slow their roll a bit.


3
haydos25
Posts
1688
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Location
Sydney AU
10/20/2020 10:16pm
Kyle978 wrote:
Fair enough, innocent question. I apologize if I came off harsh. The reality is they have 3 months to: - Figure out who their riders are...
Fair enough, innocent question. I apologize if I came off harsh.

The reality is they have 3 months to:

- Figure out who their riders are, sign them
-Acquire enough 21 motorcycles for 3 riders to test, practice and race. That could be 5+ motorcycles per rider
1-2 months minimum of riding 3-4 times a week, 10 hour days simply testing. All while working around their training, injuries, off season races etc.
- Order parts for 2021 - many parts can’t be ordered until settings are finalized
- Get parts, continue to test and refine - which means less time the rider can worry about his riding, and more time becoming a mental train wreck because they aren’t test riders and don’t actually know what they want
- Shake down/durability test

All while worrying about big picture things like:

Mechanics/team personnel
Sponsors/budget
Semi truck driver, wrap, parts organization etc
Ordering all new team stuff like shirts awnings etc.
Travel for everyone on team
Photo shoots
Sponsor obligations/meetings

I could keep going, you get the picture. A true factory team has way more people to handle each part of the operation. A team like MCR has a few guys wearing a lot of hats, it makes sense why they would slow their roll a bit.


All good points.

Just makes you wonder if in 6 weeks time Friese is 2 seconds a lap faster on the 21 then he is on the 20, what do they do then? Do they then have to reorganise the plan and get all of them on the new bike for the start of the season? Or do they say tough bickies to Hill and Savatgy/Bloss/whoever else, you guys are on the 20's all year?

Ps. I dont expect you or anyone here to have the answer, just bench racing.
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4
Kyle978
Posts
1693
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Location
Dirt, NM US
10/20/2020 11:03pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2020 11:03pm
haydos25 wrote:
All good points. Just makes you wonder if in 6 weeks time Friese is 2 seconds a lap faster on the 21 then he is on...
All good points.

Just makes you wonder if in 6 weeks time Friese is 2 seconds a lap faster on the 21 then he is on the 20, what do they do then? Do they then have to reorganise the plan and get all of them on the new bike for the start of the season? Or do they say tough bickies to Hill and Savatgy/Bloss/whoever else, you guys are on the 20's all year?

Ps. I dont expect you or anyone here to have the answer, just bench racing.
That’s the thing, he won’t be 2 seconds faster. As a matter of fact, he might not get comfortable and find a good setting toward the middle of the season.

Guys like Savatgy and Hill really shouldn’t be dialing in a bike throughout the season, they need to focus on their riding. The 2020 MCR bike is really good!
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10/21/2020 12:12am
Hill is not on a MCR bike, nor wearing Leatt so I guess he won’t be back there.


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