Eli's place among top motocrossers

Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 7/28/2020 10:59am
7/28/2020 10:59am
Dunge never did defend an outdoor title. Always lost it the following year
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 7/28/2020 11:01am
7/28/2020 11:01am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2020 11:02am
AND.....Tomac’s not done yet!
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mxb2
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mxb2 7/28/2020 11:02am
7/28/2020 11:02am
shaffstall721 wrote:
RC JS7 McGrath Villipoto ET Dungey Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him...
RC
JS7
McGrath
Villipoto
ET
Dungey


Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him.

Just my opinion.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
The Racerx list is for MX only. No way McGrath ranks that high. SX alone he's number one. I wouldn't even put him that high on...
The Racerx list is for MX only. No way McGrath ranks that high. SX alone he's number one. I wouldn't even put him that high on a combined list. He was dominant for 2 years outdoors and only got one title out of it.
Mc has 8 titles,. Top.4 for sure. After rc,rv rd5
kage173
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kage173 7/28/2020 11:29am
7/28/2020 11:29am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2020 11:33am
shaffstall721 wrote:
RC JS7 McGrath Villipoto ET Dungey Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him...
RC
JS7
McGrath
Villipoto
ET
Dungey


Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him.

Just my opinion.
In 2010 Dungey won the MX title by 145 points as a rookie.

In 2012 he won it by 127 points. That year he won every single moto except 1, which he got 2nd in.

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Bultaco
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Bultaco 7/28/2020 11:43am
7/28/2020 11:43am
Certainly among the elite group. Whether you measure race wins, championships or $$$$ earned. Any conclusion beyond that is conjecture.
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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 7/28/2020 12:09pm
7/28/2020 12:09pm
shaffstall721 wrote:
RC JS7 McGrath Villipoto ET Dungey Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him...
RC
JS7
McGrath
Villipoto
ET
Dungey


Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him.

Just my opinion.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
The Racerx list is for MX only. No way McGrath ranks that high. SX alone he's number one. I wouldn't even put him that high on...
The Racerx list is for MX only. No way McGrath ranks that high. SX alone he's number one. I wouldn't even put him that high on a combined list. He was dominant for 2 years outdoors and only got one title out of it.
mxb2 wrote:
Mc has 8 titles,. Top.4 for sure. After rc,rv rd5
I guess if you think his SX titles carry that much weight. One outdoor title . That hurts his overall standing to me . Just my opinion. This list was just moto.
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Park Boys
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Park Boys 7/28/2020 12:12pm
7/28/2020 12:12pm
He is up there that’s for sure has to be top 10 for sure and you could make an argument for top 5 but he has definitely had more head scratching moments than other guy close to him though. His bad days it seems are far worse than the guys around him in wins. When I see people put him ahead of Dungey it’s like 3rd was a bad race and 4th was nearly unheard for Dungey. We can not be lost on that. Part of his success is well is that fact that his only peer in the AMA side got hurt right when he started to win titles. But when Tomac is firing on all cylinders he is the only rider it seems that can ride a 450 likes an 85.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 7/28/2020 12:14pm
7/28/2020 12:14pm
shaffstall721 wrote:
RC JS7 McGrath Villipoto ET Dungey Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him...
RC
JS7
McGrath
Villipoto
ET
Dungey


Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him.

Just my opinion.
kage173 wrote:
In 2010 Dungey won the MX title by 145 points as a rookie. In 2012 he won it by 127 points. That year he won every...
In 2010 Dungey won the MX title by 145 points as a rookie.

In 2012 he won it by 127 points. That year he won every single moto except 1, which he got 2nd in.

He lost the first two rounds to Stew
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kage173
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kage173 7/28/2020 12:20pm
7/28/2020 12:20pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
He lost the first two rounds to Stew
You're right. Forgot about that.
mxb2
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mxb2 7/28/2020 12:26pm
7/28/2020 12:26pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
The Racerx list is for MX only. No way McGrath ranks that high. SX alone he's number one. I wouldn't even put him that high on...
The Racerx list is for MX only. No way McGrath ranks that high. SX alone he's number one. I wouldn't even put him that high on a combined list. He was dominant for 2 years outdoors and only got one title out of it.
mxb2 wrote:
Mc has 8 titles,. Top.4 for sure. After rc,rv rd5
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I guess if you think his SX titles carry that much weight. One outdoor title . That hurts his overall standing to me . Just my...
I guess if you think his SX titles carry that much weight. One outdoor title . That hurts his overall standing to me . Just my opinion. This list was just moto.
True. Good points.
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Kelz87 7/28/2020 2:41pm
7/28/2020 2:41pm
Tomac would already be up there with Ricky and James if he hadn’t let the past 3 SX championships slip away. He was certainly capable of it! Hope he gets at least one more
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kpiper
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kpiper 7/28/2020 2:48pm
7/28/2020 2:48pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2020 2:49pm
So many ways to calculate this...

1) Most titles
2) Most wins
3) Style, aggressiveness, personality, etc.
4) Do you count the 125/250 class?

I think you have to only count the premier class if you are talking about the best ever list.

#1 is simple...no one close to RC4. If you are talking MX only then Eli has to rank above JS, RD and RV. Three in a row is a massive accomplishment only two other riders have ever done.

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wildbill
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wildbill 7/28/2020 4:37pm
7/28/2020 4:37pm
Forty wrote:
Eli could easily work his way into the top 5 statistically and with some time maybe top 3. I am not a fan but he’s that...
Eli could easily work his way into the top 5 statistically and with some time maybe top 3. I am not a fan but he’s that good.

My top 10 combine stats and emotion and time in my life and impact the rider had on the sport and many other variables so IMO Eli is in the 10-15 range.
How can you not be a fan of Eli, are you daft? (Not even sure what daft means but, it fit right in)
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hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 7/28/2020 4:40pm
7/28/2020 4:40pm
rohr397 wrote:
To be fair, you could argue that Dungey would have beat Villopoto in 2011 had he not had mechanical issues. In Supercross, it's a little murky...
To be fair, you could argue that Dungey would have beat Villopoto in 2011 had he not had mechanical issues.

In Supercross, it's a little murky. Dungey losing a chain allowed Villopoto to pull ahead, but RV not qualifying for Jacksonville levels the playing field a little there.

Outdoors though, had Dungey not run out of gas while in the lead with less than a lap left, he'd have finished ahead of Villopoto in points. That was also the year he had the Southwick incident.

I'm not saying it's some sort of asterisk either. It's as silly as saying Dungey only won because Villopoto got hurt. At the end of the day, the guy who had everything in order and did everything right earned their title.

As far as trying to say who the better guy was, though, it's pretty subjective. They achieved a similar results and were a pretty even match on paper, but it was clear that Villopoto had the raw speed and Dungey had the consistency.
Can we just let the "Dungey could have won in 2011" discussions end already? RV could have won by more, he was sick at the start of outdoors, Chad could have won if he didn't Chadapult.....James could have won if he raced outdoors Laughing

Fact is, despite it all Dungey was still in with a shot in 2011 at Steel City and RV owned him. He never beat RV in a series that both riders completed. RV has 5 outdoor titles, Dungey has 4. End of story.
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kong0036
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kong0036 7/28/2020 5:14pm
7/28/2020 5:14pm
End of debate. There will never be another RC. ET this RD that RV this JS that.

List
1. RC
2. subjective
3. Subjective
4. subjective
5.subjective

this is the only certainty
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Forty
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Forty 7/28/2020 5:31pm
7/28/2020 5:31pm
Forty wrote:
Eli could easily work his way into the top 5 statistically and with some time maybe top 3. I am not a fan but he’s that...
Eli could easily work his way into the top 5 statistically and with some time maybe top 3. I am not a fan but he’s that good.

My top 10 combine stats and emotion and time in my life and impact the rider had on the sport and many other variables so IMO Eli is in the 10-15 range.
wildbill wrote:
How can you not be a fan of Eli, are you daft? (Not even sure what daft means but, it fit right in)
I don’t know. Weird huh? Nothing against him, amazing rider, I’m sure he’s a nice guy. Just not a fan.
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kpiper 7/28/2020 5:34pm
7/28/2020 5:34pm
Forty wrote:
I don’t know. Weird huh? Nothing against him, amazing rider, I’m sure he’s a nice guy. Just not a fan.
Eli's entertainment value each race is usually off the charts good. Far more than others.
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rdrurypi
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rdrurypi 7/28/2020 6:45pm
7/28/2020 6:45pm
I have seen the best racers over a long period of time, but I have never seen anyone like JS7. He has to be the baddest guy to have ever thrown a leg over a motorcycle. That being said, he crashed spectacularly and often and it takes him away from being a RC or RV. But even those legends say the on their best days, they couldn't beat Stew is he didn't crash. The first time I saw JS7 in person was at Bithlo and his corning speed blew my mind. His jumping, scrubbing and speed was like no one I have ever seen in person.
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mxb2
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mxb2 7/28/2020 6:53pm
7/28/2020 6:53pm
rdrurypi wrote:
I have seen the best racers over a long period of time, but I have never seen anyone like JS7. He has to be the baddest...
I have seen the best racers over a long period of time, but I have never seen anyone like JS7. He has to be the baddest guy to have ever thrown a leg over a motorcycle. That being said, he crashed spectacularly and often and it takes him away from being a RC or RV. But even those legends say the on their best days, they couldn't beat Stew is he didn't crash. The first time I saw JS7 in person was at Bithlo and his corning speed blew my mind. His jumping, scrubbing and speed was like no one I have ever seen in person.
And he stated that if tomac was on his game, he didnt think he could beat him.
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Flatliner 7/28/2020 7:07pm
7/28/2020 7:07pm
shaffstall721 wrote:
RC JS7 McGrath Villipoto ET Dungey Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him...
RC
JS7
McGrath
Villipoto
ET
Dungey


Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him.

Just my opinion.
You do realize he won both 450 titles his rookie year right?

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Forty
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Forty 7/28/2020 7:16pm
7/28/2020 7:16pm
shaffstall721 wrote:
RC JS7 McGrath Villipoto ET Dungey Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him...
RC
JS7
McGrath
Villipoto
ET
Dungey


Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him.

Just my opinion.
Flatliner wrote:
You do realize he won both 450 titles his rookie year right?

Dungey won the 250 outdoors title in 2009 and then stepped up to a 450 for the MXdN and was on the winning team and then in 2010 as a 450 rookie won the SX and MX Titles and then went to Colorado and won both motos of the 450 MXDN In another winning effort. Hell of a 18 months for a 20 year old. The rest is history. Respect.
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5050
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5050 7/28/2020 7:27pm
7/28/2020 7:27pm
One SX title doesn’t suddenly make him a combined legend.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 7/28/2020 7:32pm
7/28/2020 7:32pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2020 7:33pm
5050 wrote:
One SX title doesn’t suddenly make him a combined legend.
No but his win totals in SX do. 34 (tied with Dunge) and counting...
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 7/28/2020 7:34pm
7/28/2020 7:34pm
What if Tomac wins the next 5 Sx championships?
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5050
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5050 7/28/2020 7:43pm
7/28/2020 7:43pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
No but his win totals in SX do. 34 (tied with Dunge) and counting...
But on the other hand, 34 wins and 1 title means a lot of choking.
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5050
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5050 7/28/2020 7:44pm
7/28/2020 7:44pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
What if Tomac wins the next 5 Sx championships?
He won’t.
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mxb2
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mxb2 7/28/2020 7:51pm
7/28/2020 7:51pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
No but his win totals in SX do. 34 (tied with Dunge) and counting...
5050 wrote:
But on the other hand, 34 wins and 1 title means a lot of choking.
Just think how the other. Top paid riders feel. No titles, few wins. Kawy getting there moneys worth on their investment. Not hrc , ktm with kroc, musquin.
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WCRider
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WCRider 7/28/2020 10:37pm
7/28/2020 10:37pm
Since 30 years i've seen a ton of amazing riders and Eli is one of the best by far.

I think the most incredible thing about Eli is his capability to be basically injuries "free" with an hyper aggresive style on a whole SX and MX season since 10 years.

Eli is an animal.

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captmoto
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captmoto 7/28/2020 11:02pm
7/28/2020 11:02pm
scootch wrote:
I'm not sure how Tomac isn't ahead of Dungey in any of these comparisons due to his raw speed. Didn't Tomac put a minute and a...
I'm not sure how Tomac isn't ahead of Dungey in any of these comparisons due to his raw speed. Didn't Tomac put a minute and a half on Dungey one moto? Also, insert video of Tomac at GH whipping thru the 180 turn. Dude has 3 straight titles and more raw speed than we have seen from anybody since RV/Stew
Titles, it's all about the titles. Dungey was retired before Tomac won his first SX title. Raw speed doesn't mean as much to me because like Ricky Bobby says "If you ain't first, yer last".
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robotsfrom
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robotsfrom 7/29/2020 2:28am
7/29/2020 2:28am
Tarz483 wrote:
He Is winning Championships In an era when everyone has it figured out! Everyone has a trainer. Tracks, the nutrition down etc. He deserve all the...
He Is winning Championships In an era when everyone has it figured out!
Everyone has a trainer. Tracks, the nutrition down etc.
He deserve all the glory he gets
TXDirt wrote:
Eli is one bad dude on a dirt bike. He’s not at an RV level maybe just because if his mental lapses on occasion. I fully...
Eli is one bad dude on a dirt bike. He’s not at an RV level maybe just because if his mental lapses on occasion.

I fully expect Eli will eclipse Dungey by the end of his career. When it’s all said and done I think in the modern motocross era it’s will be RC, Stewart, RV, Eli, Dungey.

But for now Dungey is slightly ahead. But not by much. Gotta give credit to Dungey.

That’s likely to change after this year or next.
I have to put all the guys you listed ahead of Eli just on the fact that he hasn't won a Des Nations and has opted out of them as the AMA mx champ. Has anyone else done that in the modern era while USA has sent a team?
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