Eli's place among top motocrossers

Related:
Create New Tag

7/29/2020 2:28 AM

Tarz483 wrote:

He Is winning Championships In an era when everyone has it figured out!
Everyone has a trainer. Tracks, the nutrition down ...more

TXDirt wrote:

Eli is one bad dude on a dirt bike. He’s not at an RV level maybe just because if his mental lapses on occasion.

I fully ...more

I have to put all the guys you listed ahead of Eli just on the fact that he hasn't won a Des Nations and has opted out of them as the AMA mx champ. Has anyone else done that in the modern era while USA has sent a team?

|

7/29/2020 3:30 AM

Tarz483 wrote:

He Is winning Championships In an era when everyone has it figured out!
Everyone has a trainer. Tracks, the nutrition down ...more

TXDirt wrote:

Eli is one bad dude on a dirt bike. He’s not at an RV level maybe just because if his mental lapses on occasion.

I fully ...more

robotsfrom wrote:

I have to put all the guys you listed ahead of Eli just on the fact that he hasn't won a Des Nations and has opted out of them ...more

McGrath didn't go in 95 after winning the 250 (now 450) outdoor title. He wasn't injured that I remember, just didn't go . Emig who finished second in the championship went instead. And in 2004 RC there weren't enough top riders willing to go so RC decided he didn't want to go if we couldn't send a competitive team so we ended up not sending a team at all. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's the way I remember it.

|

7/29/2020 4:21 AM

Tarz483 wrote:

He Is winning Championships In an era when everyone has it figured out!
Everyone has a trainer. Tracks, the nutrition down ...more

TXDirt wrote:

Eli is one bad dude on a dirt bike. He’s not at an RV level maybe just because if his mental lapses on occasion.

I fully ...more

robotsfrom wrote:

I have to put all the guys you listed ahead of Eli just on the fact that he hasn't won a Des Nations and has opted out of them ...more

Dunge bailed in 15

|

Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

7/29/2020 4:55 AM

1.RC
2.MC
3.RV

That's the top 3 ever and I just don't think anyone could convince me otherwise in 2020...

Tomac, Dungey, Stewart, Hannah, RJ, Reed, Ward I have a hard time ranking those guys. It's not easy to compile a list.

|

7/29/2020 5:07 AM

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Dunge never did defend an outdoor title. Always lost it the following year

How many did he not defend?

|

7/29/2020 5:17 AM

TXDirt wrote:

Eli is one bad dude on a dirt bike. He’s not at an RV level maybe just because if his mental lapses on occasion.

I fully ...more

robotsfrom wrote:

I have to put all the guys you listed ahead of Eli just on the fact that he hasn't won a Des Nations and has opted out of them ...more

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Dunge bailed in 15

Could make an argument that if the Dunge didn't stink it up a couple times Eli would have a couple MXdN wins!

|

Cheers, Crush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


7/29/2020 5:31 AM

rohr397 wrote:

To be fair, you could argue that Dungey would have beat Villopoto in 2011 had he not had mechanical issues.

In Supercross, ...more

I've said it before, but I hate the argument... in general, but particularly for 2011.

....and not for nothing, Reedy has a better claim to the outdoor title, because he was just flat out better! He's also like 16 points or something out of being a 6 time SX champ... wanna hear a few stories about Seats falling off and first turn crashes at Seattle? ...but he didn't. Because even when he got a break, RC or James just fuckin went beast mode..

2011 SX is Moot as you say. Dungey dropped a chain and got one point. RV got cleaned out twice in the first turn in Jacksonville and didn't qualify.

2011 Nats... Dungey boils at round two! The riders race the series presented too them. If we look at all the other race data, it's far safer to assume RV would have gone batshit a few more times to make the points up and Dungey would have played it safe and lost points... because that's what they always did!


|

Cheers, Crush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


7/29/2020 5:40 AM

twotwosix wrote:

1.RC
2.MC
3.RV

That's the top 3 ever and I just don't think anyone could convince me otherwise in 2020...

Tomac, Dungey, ...more

Emig was better outdoors than MC

|

7/29/2020 5:44 AM

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Dunge never did defend an outdoor title. Always lost it the following year

Forty wrote:

How many did he not defend?

Didn’t defend his 2010, 2012, 2015 titles. Lost the following years

|

Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

7/29/2020 5:48 AM

These are sorted by premier class championships and then wins, just to offer a premier class only perspective.

Photo

Photo

Photo

|

7/29/2020 5:56 AM

robotsfrom wrote:

I have to put all the guys you listed ahead of Eli just on the fact that he hasn't won a Des Nations and has opted out of them ...more

They have all opted out at some point..
Eli didn’t go so he could focus on finally getting the SX title - Which he did win.

|

7/29/2020 6:13 AM

BR650 wrote:

These are sorted by premier class championships and then wins, just to offer a premier class only perspective.

Photo

Photo

Photo

Love these stats, had no idea Kent Howerton had 23 wins in 250/500 back in the day. Quite the feat!!

Also, Jeff Ward has a much better spot now with 500s mixed in.. the list gets more and more subjective.

It will be interesting examining Eli's career when he's done. He's easily in the top 10 of all-time AMA motocrossers, in the 6-8 range currently. After this season he could be 3-5.

|

Holeshot Coffee Co.
Each bag sold donates $1 to Road2Recovery

7/29/2020 7:06 AM

No matter what the record books say, in my opinion Eli is the second most entertaining American MX racer ever. RC was absolutely amazing but the races were not that entertaining before James moved up.

|

7/29/2020 7:31 AM

twotwosix wrote:

1.RC
2.MC
3.RV

That's the top 3 ever and I just don't think anyone could convince me otherwise in 2020...

Tomac, Dungey, ...more

Not in motocross. MC is not top 3.

|

7/29/2020 7:38 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

McGrath didn't go in 95 after winning the 250 (now 450) outdoor title. He wasn't injured that I remember, just didn't go . ...more

I think MC had a knee injury just before the outdoor season but i m not totally sure.

|

7/29/2020 8:12 AM

twotwosix wrote:

1.RC
2.MC
3.RV

That's the top 3 ever and I just don't think anyone could convince me otherwise in 2020...

Tomac, Dungey, ...more

toddh wrote:

Not in motocross. MC is not top 3.

Agreed, mc is a badazz. Top 4/5 of all time ,but not top 3 outdoors.

|

7/29/2020 8:34 AM

a decisive factor is the mxon in which tomac wasnt as dominant as rc js and rv. hes not in the level of dungey there in terms of resulrs, even though he was lucky enough to race at red budd in 2018. all the previous great riders retire early and rockzen is not fully fit since 2017. his speed is phenomenal pretty often but hes not up there (yet)

|

7/29/2020 10:48 AM

robotsfrom wrote:

I have to put all the guys you listed ahead of Eli just on the fact that he hasn't won a Des Nations and has opted out of them ...more

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Dunge bailed in 15

Crush wrote:

Could make an argument that if the Dunge didn't stink it up a couple times Eli would have a couple MXdN wins!

That argument goes back to Eli. Eli had an awful first moto (13th i believe) so they gave him the better gate pick for the second moto he still got an awful start and Dungey got taken out on the start with the worse gate pick and Tomac had a heroic moto, but then crashed. I think they got 3rd.

Tomacs other best shot at a Des Nations win was on a lite bike when he did his version of a Chadapult chasing Roczen (if he didn't crash he was definitely faster)

|

7/29/2020 11:44 AM

ktm 125 wrote:

a decisive factor is the mxon in which tomac wasnt as dominant as rc js and rv. hes not in the level of dungey there in terms ...more

Reed is one of the greats precisely because of his durability. Paradox.

|

If the glass is half full it's twice as big as it needs to be.

7/29/2020 1:17 PM

shaffstall721 wrote:

RC
JS7
McGrath
Villipoto
ET
Dungey


Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the ...more

kage173 wrote:

In 2010 Dungey won the MX title by 145 points as a rookie.

In 2012 he won it by 127 points. That year he won every single ...more

Johnny Ringo wrote:

He lost the first two rounds to Stew

He won in 2010 against who? Brett Metcalf was second?....
2011--Villopoto beat him
2012-- alessi was 2nd
2013--Poto Wins
2014 -- His rookie teamate beats him
2015-- He wins against Roczen who was lost on his suzuki (or a back injury) (Tomac beat him by over a minute in a moto this year)

Don't be mad at this post-- these are just the facts.

He never beat a dominate rider other than in 2015..

BUT I do think he is the most consistent MX rider ever. I just don't consider him as high on the list as some of you.

2nd moto at Latvia was pretty bad too.....

|

7/29/2020 2:02 PM

ktm 125 wrote:

a decisive factor is the mxon in which tomac wasnt as dominant as rc js and rv. hes not in the level of dungey there in terms ...more

Momus wrote:

Reed is one of the greats precisely because of his durability. Paradox.

true but we are not talkin about sx. he had some summers to relax though

|

7/29/2020 2:50 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/29/2020 7:56 PM

kage173 wrote:

In 2010 Dungey won the MX title by 145 points as a rookie.

In 2012 he won it by 127 points. That year he won every single ...more

Johnny Ringo wrote:

He lost the first two rounds to Stew

shaffstall721 wrote:

He won in 2010 against who? Brett Metcalf was second?....
2011--Villopoto beat him
2012-- alessi was 2nd
2013--Poto Wins
2014 ...more

In 2010 he was a 20 year old rookie that after Hangtown never lost an overall again all year expect for when his bike broke in Steel City. Short, Metcalfe, Grant, Townly, Alessi were in it. Reed never beat him after round 1. Sick or not without Dungey Reed finishes that season.

2011 he gets second by a handful of points and loses over 30 points because of two bike issues.

2012 after stew gets hurt he wins ever race the rest of the year. You could argue that was the weakest field he faced. Alessi was one of the best motocross riders of that generation though. Kid finished runner up at 19 in the 450 class on a KTM that was easily the worst bike of the big 5.

2013 was RVs best year no doubt but even then it was close until Dungey’s DNF at Red Bud. Hell the next week at Millville a chain derailment cost him another win.

2014 the Rookie happened to be the biggest talent of his generation but before the mud of Utah Dungey was steam rolling Roczen, Tomac and Camard in the second half of the season. Still he gave to much away from rounds Hangtown thru Red Bud.

2015 You want to compare Tomcas outdoor tally vs Dungey’s... I’ll give you a hint it ain’t good. Plus RD gets robbed in the third moto of the season from you guessed it, another bike issue. Tomac was great but foolish don’t push 20 seconds in front. You could argue he was a ticking time bomb that year. And Roczen finished 2nd nearly 100 points behind I believe.

If your talking MxDN his second half was filled with poor showings and plenty of crashes but it was also filled with a lot of wins. Including 2010 when people kind of like how you described his competition in 2010 thought AC was gonna eat him alive and Dungey smoked everyone.

|

7/29/2020 5:37 PM

We'll see when he's done. Not everyone will agree then anyway, but still...

|

Twitter: @ftemoto
Instagram: @mstusiak

7/29/2020 6:11 PM

Lets talk when he retires.

|

7/29/2020 6:30 PM

Johnny Ringo wrote:

He lost the first two rounds to Stew

shaffstall721 wrote:

He won in 2010 against who? Brett Metcalf was second?....
2011--Villopoto beat him
2012-- alessi was 2nd
2013--Poto Wins
2014 ...more

Park Boys wrote:

In 2010 he was a 20 year old rookie that after Hangtown never lost an overall again all year expect for when his bike broke in ...more

2014 is my fav season. kr and rd went neck to neck with a couple js7 glimpses of talent. no way rd steamed rolled kr, check again

|

7/29/2020 7:48 PM

BR650 wrote:

These are sorted by premier class championships and then wins, just to offer a premier class only perspective.

Photo

Photo

Photo

Fascinating to look at this stuff.




What stands out most on those lists is Bubba getting 70 wins combined(SX/MX) in the premier class but only 3 championships. How in the hell did Ricky get 12 championships in the premier class but Bubba only 3? Well we all know how, but...

Another interesting thing is Dungey has 39 450 MX wins(2nd all time) and Tomac only has 23. And Dungey has 7 premier class titles to Reed's 3. For all those 2nd's Dungey sure got a lot of wins and championships!

Tomac and RJ have more premier class wins than RV2, wouldn't have thought that.

Eli has 16 more premier class wins to catch Dungey for 3rd and 30 to catch MC, leaving him within... 37 wins of RC. He has a chance at 2nd overall premier class wins if he stays healthy.

Villopoto only has 12 premier class MX wins but 41 in SX(53 total) yet he got 6 championships. Bubba had 20 outdoors and 50 SX but got only 3 championships?

|

7/29/2020 7:55 PM

ktm 125 wrote:

2014 is my fav season. kr and rd went neck to neck with a couple js7 glimpses of talent. no way rd steamed rolled kr, check ...more

I meant to say after Red Bud, it looked like Dungey was gonna come back and snag the title but Kenny pulled it out at Utah and sealed the deal. I agree with 14 being great. Still get pissed about Stewart and the WADA shit coming out after he won 3 of the last 4 motos he competed in.

|

7/29/2020 7:56 PM

BR650 wrote:

These are sorted by premier class championships and then wins, just to offer a premier class only perspective.

Photo

Photo

Photo

Where is the MX Kied?

|

7/29/2020 9:58 PM

I have wondered if Tomac thinks about his Legacy in the sport and if he even cares?

Tomac has racked up a nice win list in both MX and SX. (7th SX and 4th MX) On this basis Tomac is already up there with the all time best. No reason to think he won't be the favorite to win #1 plates the next few years. With some luck and staying healthy Tomac could get as high as #2 on MX total win list and 4 on SX total win list

ET3
2020 450 SX
2019 450 MX
2018 450 MX
2017 450 MX
2013 250 MX
2012 250 SX


Dungey
2017 450 SX
2016 450 SX
2015 450 SX
2015 450 MX
2012 450 MX
2010 450 SX
2010 450 MX
2009 250 SX
2009 250 SX
2008 250 MX

Villomoto
2014 450 SX
2013 450 SX
2013 450 MX
2012 450 SX
2011 450 SX
2011 450 MX
2008 250 MX
2007 250 SX
2007 250 MX
2006 250 MX

RC4
2006 450 SX
2006 450 MX
2005 450 SX
2005 450 MX
2004 450 MX
2003 450 SX
2003 450 MX
2002 450 SX
2002 450 MX
2001 450 SX
2001 450 MX
2000 450 MX
1999 250 MX
1998 250 SX
1998 250 MX
1997 250 MX

KROC
2016 450 MX
2014 450 MX
2013 250 SX

CW2
2019 450 SX
2016 250 SX
2016 250 MX
2015 250 SX

AMA SX Premier Class [250T / 450F] Main Event Wins
1. Jeremy McGrath (72)
2. James Stewart (50)
3. Ricky Carmichael (48)
4. Chad Reed (44)
5. Ryan Villopoto (41)
6. Ryan Dungey (35)
7. Eli Tomac (29)
8. Rick Johnson (28)
9. Bob Hannah (27)
10. Jeff Ward (20)
11. Damon Bradshaw (19)
12. Kevin Windham (18)

AMA MX Most Overall Wins 250T/450F

1. RC 76
2. Dungey 39
3. Bob Hannah 27
4. Tomac 23
5. RJ 22
6. Bubba 20
7. Howerton 18
8. Kroc 18
9. Emig 16
10. MC 15


|

^ Posers (Only Beta's Downvote)
Brapasaurus Rex

7/29/2020 10:29 PM

Eli is a good sport. He's probably one of the most chill champions ever.

|