Three views of the Josh Grant incident

DC
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 2:34am
Attached is a compilation of the SPEED TV crew's three different shots of the Hangtown incident involving Josh Grant in the second moto.

http://mxsportsproracing.com/hangtown-red-yellow.wmv

There is a downed rider and the paramedics in the track to Josh's right, which is where Alessi would likely have landed on the usual line he used.

DC
MX Sports


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72kiteboarder
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6/2/2009 11:33am
So I assume you stand by the decision to dock a position?

Glad to see the rules being enforced and held to.
oshow
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6/2/2009 11:36am
Good call, I hate it for JG as who knows if he saw the flag or not, but after Alessi and the Stroupe incident last year something had to be done.
rallendude
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6/2/2009 11:39am
Good call. Stick to your guns. The flaggers were positioned properly and all riders involved had ample time to recognize and react.

It's just a racing incident and JG will look out better in the future. Hopefully others will too.

I'm still for the using a different color flag than one with a lot of yellow on it.
motogeezer
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6/2/2009 11:44am
oshow wrote:
Good call, I hate it for JG as who knows if he saw the flag or not, but after Alessi and the Stroupe incident last year...
Good call, I hate it for JG as who knows if he saw the flag or not, but after Alessi and the Stroupe incident last year something had to be done.
"who knows if he saw the flag..."

In the second clip, it looked like the corner worker damned near whapped him on the head with the flag.

If he didn't see it, he should get a penalty for not paying attention.

The Shop

GuyB
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6/2/2009 11:45am Edited Date/Time 6/2/2009 11:45am
From the front view only, it looked a lot more compressed...like the flagger was closer to the lip of the jump. I'd say it's pretty clear that there should have been a little more time to react than if the flagger had just been at the lip.
DC
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6/2/2009 11:47am
MX Sports is still gathering information and opinions after these first two races and considering a change from yellow to white -- with the same flag design -- in the hopes of making every downed-rider situation safer for everyone. It is important that no matter how anyone views this situation, the conversation of advancing safety continues.

DC
MX Sports
DownSouth
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6/2/2009 11:47am
That second angle sure changed my opinion on the incident.

My only guess is that Grant saw it as a yellow flag, not red/yellow. Maybe a different color is the way to go.
txmxer
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6/2/2009 11:48am
rallendude wrote:
Good call. Stick to your guns. The flaggers were positioned properly and all riders involved had ample time to recognize and react. It's just a racing...
Good call. Stick to your guns. The flaggers were positioned properly and all riders involved had ample time to recognize and react.

It's just a racing incident and JG will look out better in the future. Hopefully others will too.

I'm still for the using a different color flag than one with a lot of yellow on it.
agreed.

I think there are SEVERAL posters here that could post a mia culpa from the long thread talking about how the flagging wasn't right. If anyone failed to see that guy, then that's on the rider. Not the flagger.

thanks DC for the follow up.
wardy
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6/2/2009 11:49am
it's a riders job to pay attention. he clearly had a flagger in his "face" so to speak with that no jump flag. follow the rules, stick to the rule book, can't really lose.
kcadrenalin
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6/2/2009 11:49am
Tough call even with all the video. I feel bad for JG but at least there is sound reasoning behind the decision. That hasn't always been the case when it came to penalties.

rucka356
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6/2/2009 11:54am
The flag needs to be a completely different color....plain and simple! When your going that fast and have such a short time to react, you don't have a whole lot of time to look for a stripe.....especially if the flagger is not in a good spot.
oshow
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6/2/2009 11:54am Edited Date/Time 6/2/2009 11:55am
DownSouth wrote:
That second angle sure changed my opinion on the incident. My only guess is that Grant saw it as a yellow flag, not red/yellow. Maybe a...
That second angle sure changed my opinion on the incident.

My only guess is that Grant saw it as a yellow flag, not red/yellow. Maybe a different color is the way to go.
Thats my guess too.
ChrisB
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6/2/2009 12:08pm
DownSouth wrote:
That second angle sure changed my opinion on the incident. My only guess is that Grant saw it as a yellow flag, not red/yellow. Maybe a...
That second angle sure changed my opinion on the incident.

My only guess is that Grant saw it as a yellow flag, not red/yellow. Maybe a different color is the way to go.
x2... the only angle we couldn't see is Josh Grants... maybe he saw the yellow and saw what was ahead and acted accordingly, only josh knows that one.

Seems like MX sports is doing all the right things and I doubt JG wants to hurt anybody.

Camp332
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6/2/2009 12:09pm
JG don't see so good sometimes! Remember when he smashed Ryan Villopoto in the face during that supercross in 2008?
Shocker
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6/2/2009 12:13pm
X2
6/2/2009 12:16pm
Not to debate the decision. Good job sticking to your guns and enforcing the rules. From an advocate standpoint, I think it is clear in the expression of the flagger that even he wasn't sure if Grant seen the flag or not. He tried making his presence even more clear to MA when he seen JG's reaction wasn't what he thought it should have been.
agency399
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6/2/2009 12:22pm
hard to argue with that, and JG def. had an advantage with Mike rolling the jump.

But thats not the issue, he could have landed on somebody really easy had they been at the bottom of that BLIND jump.

I say good call, bummer for JG for sure but...........rules are rules and I hope he comes back to win some more!
flarider
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6/2/2009 12:23pm
DC wrote:
MX Sports is still gathering information and opinions after these first two races and considering a change from yellow to white -- with the same flag...
MX Sports is still gathering information and opinions after these first two races and considering a change from yellow to white -- with the same flag design -- in the hopes of making every downed-rider situation safer for everyone. It is important that no matter how anyone views this situation, the conversation of advancing safety continues.

DC
MX Sports
DC, seriously, why not something like a diver down flag (or similar), it would surely capture attention and be less likely to blend into anything else or be obscured by light/shadows

GuyB
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6/2/2009 12:23pm Edited Date/Time 6/2/2009 12:24pm
Here are a couple Monster Energy Kawasaki guys testing out a new prototype green flag. Wink



I will say that all the riders have to process and discard an awful lot of info every lap out there.
JR51
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6/2/2009 12:23pm
Do riders get the white flag and the white with red cross flag confused easily? What abou the white and the checkers?

Color seems like an easy way to present a defense, but I seriously question the validity.

It's my experience that there is almost always time to react, if you want to. Could it be so simple as Alessi remembering what happened to him last year, or Grant not?

JR
sc961
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6/2/2009 12:26pm
Part of the problem is past ignorance of the yellow and red cross flagging all together.

While the argument of a different color system has merit, nothing will matter unless the rider and team view of flagging changes. The yellow/orange flag is very visable from the footage here.

Davey, you have a great start on making that happen. As a racer, parent of a racer, part time flagger and track referee, what you are doing is key to the safety of a downed rider.

Nice job on bringing the different views to the message board world. Not many would tread on the fringes of this or any other place. You do it with good information and perspective.

Just don't think for a minute that one of the Vitaldrivers won't jump down your throat given the chance.. :-)
alphado
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6/2/2009 12:28pm
Just make the yellow flag no jumping and no passing. Safety first!
TJ 755
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6/2/2009 12:29pm
tough call..he did slow a little it looks like. Hard not to clear that step down with-out the super slo mo roll like Alessi. He did see the incident and moved way left.
Again..tough call.
GuyB
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6/2/2009 12:29pm
JR51 wrote:
Do riders get the white flag and the white with red cross flag confused easily? What abou the white and the checkers? Color seems like an...
Do riders get the white flag and the white with red cross flag confused easily? What abou the white and the checkers?

Color seems like an easy way to present a defense, but I seriously question the validity.

It's my experience that there is almost always time to react, if you want to. Could it be so simple as Alessi remembering what happened to him last year, or Grant not?

JR
The only place they're accustomed to seeing a white or checkered flag around the course is on the finish line jump, so I wouldn't suppose they would.
rileymx
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6/2/2009 12:31pm
for me the problem is that everybody stoped respecting the yellow flag and keep racing as if theres no flag.....
the yellow flag is the warnnig for the riders ofa danger situation, it should be taken as a caution riding situation and a no racing situation, but what you see is racers only change lines an keep racing.
i think it is as dangerous when someone is down and is being treated as when they just fall and are standing up and gettig started. bought are caution situations and all riders should take care, and that is the job of the yellow flag if it was respected.
so why bring in another flag, make the yellow count, be strick with the yellow situations and make the riders respect it, make it a real no racing situation and you dont need anymore flags or stripes or whatever..........
yellow flag means no racing, and that is no passing, no jumping, no nothing.......just going by with caution....and that is for the safety of all..........
gsxrcr28
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6/2/2009 12:43pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:13am
Man that is a tough one.

The flagger definitely takes a step further out toward the line they are using AFTER Grant goes by.

But rules are rules.
zookrider62!
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6/2/2009 1:01pm
[img]http://www.cara-friend.org.uk/images/pride-2007-castro-rainbow-flag.jpg[/img]
Dirty Britches waves his flag high and with pride!!!
bogdan912
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6/2/2009 1:02pm
flarider wrote:
DC, seriously, why not something like a diver down flag (or similar), it would surely capture attention and be less likely to blend into anything else...
DC, seriously, why not something like a diver down flag (or similar), it would surely capture attention and be less likely to blend into anything else or be obscured by light/shadows

I was thinking make the flag red with a yellow X on it
6/2/2009 1:11pm
If a rider can't tell a yellow flag from a yellow flag with red on it, then they'll think the flag above is a solid red flag and pull right off the track.

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