Who/What is next for Electric

3/1/2020 8:30am
Someone has to sponsor all the products for all those Homda and Yamaha Generators that will be making noise, burning fossil fuels, polluting the atmosphere. No...
Someone has to sponsor all the products for all those Homda and Yamaha Generators that will be making noise, burning fossil fuels, polluting the atmosphere.

No more indoor pits for any rSX or arenacrosses. Outside you go in the snow to charge that bike.

And how does the AMA make sure a more powerful battery is not being used in these bikes? How do they measure it after a moto when the charge has worn down?

Just my opinion the casual fan would have lose interest in the sport. Sound is a big generator of excitement in motorsports.
tcannon521 wrote:
Good thing there are these things called electrical outlets inside......

How do you think the teams power their trucks when the pits are inside now?
There are not enough electrical outlet in a building for that many bikes, lol. What about a regional arenacross with 400 amateur riders, and one indoor pit. Not happening.
2
3/1/2020 9:39am Edited Date/Time 3/1/2020 9:48am
There are not enough electrical outlet in a building for that many bikes, lol. What about a regional arenacross with 400 amateur riders, and one indoor...
There are not enough electrical outlet in a building for that many bikes, lol. What about a regional arenacross with 400 amateur riders, and one indoor pit. Not happening.
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios:

1) Portable energy storage devices. You could easily have a 5 kWh device that might cost $1200 today and hopefully $500 in 3-5 years that would recharge your bike 3 to 4 times during the day. This has the potential to charge fast (DC to DC) if both ends are built properly. It would weigh around 30 pounds which is similar to a filled 5 gallon race jug.

2) Future vehicles such as the Tesla Cybertruck which will allow the owner to transfer energy from their truck to their race bike when it needs recharged.


In my opinion Option 1 would be ideal for factory race teams and option 2 for weekend warriors.

Edit: After further thought option 1 with factory teams will probably be at a larger scale with a pack built into the trailer. I could see it being 10kWh of storage for each rider so a 3 rider team would have a 30kWh pack. This would cost maybe $5,000 (more complex components) upfront and recharging it would be $30 to $45 dollars. I wonder how much a race team spends a week on just race fuel?
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Larry450
Posts
185
Joined
12/29/2016
Location
ZW
3/1/2020 10:06am
The guys that say they will quit when bikes dont make loud noises, must have not tried mountain biking.

And the people who are worried about the aftermarket business? There will still be shims shuffle and anodized shit to be sold.
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1
Alex.434
Posts
451
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12/12/2016
Location
Warner Springs, CA US
3/1/2020 11:36am
Gal on the Alta is a high-level engineer at NASA / JPL. She's been off dirt bikes for a few years (really fast road racing track rider) and came over yesterday to go for a trail ride. We put her on our Alta EX. She was amazed by how awesome it was and couldn't stop commenting on how much fun she had.

Oddly enough the day before she was riding for a tier 1 gear brand for a photoshoot, and was on an electric streetbike quite a bit (for the shoot). So back to back electric ride days.

Wife and I still own two Altas (out of 12-14 total bikes). An EX and MX. I fucking love riding them. They are amazing bikes and technology and I look forward to someone else picking up the mantle and carrying on this level of bike tech.


8

The Shop

six10
Posts
53
Joined
8/6/2016
Location
SI
3/1/2020 2:11pm
The time for electric bikes in Europe is now. Space and noise are the biggest issue. I dream of the day, where I can do 2 20 min motos on my backyard, without neighbours calling police on me. As of now, you are not allowed to ride a dirtbike on your own land without permits. No problems for farmers riding their tractors up and down the village the whole day, but you fire up your Honda and you will get visited by the cops because someone complained about the noise.


The only real option for us is KTM Freeride E-XC. I went to Austria to try it out a couple of years back, I think 2017 or so. It wasnt good and it was not bad. At that time, I didnt feel it could handle a real motocross track thou. It was more like a fun toy, not a dirt bike. The idea was, i'd do 2-3 times of little practice during the week on my backyard, and than id go to track on the weekend with my 250f. Well, it didnt work out.

3
StevieTimes
Posts
384
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12/27/2010
Location
Saint Bonifacius, MN US
3/1/2020 7:36pm
Guys, guys... the switch to electric will be easy and quick! We've seen this before!

If the manufacturers want electric; we will buy electric. Let me lay down a tale of the future:

Let's just say they decide they want to focus on electric tech, and start phasing out internal combustion engine dirt bikes. They let the AMA know that they need a 5 kw advantage on the electric tech bikes so they can compete with the ICE machines.

We see our heroes flat out ripping past the ICE machines on TV. All the heroes say to the camera "Boy, I just can't believe how fast my electric YZ-E is out there! It was a fun race, almost too easy. This technology is amazing!"

Now if you have money you can have a mechanical advantage... and boom there goes the ICE machines.

love;
the ghost of Christmas future
1
Excaliburbmx
Posts
1868
Joined
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Location
Indianapolis, IN US
3/1/2020 7:54pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2020 7:57pm
nickm wrote:
Yamaha is making motors available to other manufacturers. Guaranteed they have a YZ -E running around somewhere. https://global.yamaha-motor.com/news/2020/0204/ev.html Don't forget that Asia-Pacific market bought almost 110...
Yamaha is making motors available to other manufacturers. Guaranteed they have a YZ -E running around somewhere.

https://global.yamaha-motor.com/news/2020/0204/ev.html

Don't forget that Asia-Pacific market bought almost 110 Million motorcycles last year vs. 2 million in North America. China and India are already legislating that everything needs to go electric by 2040 (1 billion people in a country the size of Texas makes for a bit of a shit show pollution wise). For sure the big bike makers are going to want a halo product on the podium in MXGP and AMA SX so they can sell the crap out of a modern day electric "Super Cub" equivalent.

Bring it on I say, endless torque and no noise riding of an electric dirt bike would be great. Having it supported by major makers would bring it into mainstream.
You would have to have a huge power grid and those countries won’t have that available
3/2/2020 6:31am
There are not enough electrical outlet in a building for that many bikes, lol. What about a regional arenacross with 400 amateur riders, and one indoor...
There are not enough electrical outlet in a building for that many bikes, lol. What about a regional arenacross with 400 amateur riders, and one indoor pit. Not happening.
tcannon521 wrote:
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios: 1)...
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios:

1) Portable energy storage devices. You could easily have a 5 kWh device that might cost $1200 today and hopefully $500 in 3-5 years that would recharge your bike 3 to 4 times during the day. This has the potential to charge fast (DC to DC) if both ends are built properly. It would weigh around 30 pounds which is similar to a filled 5 gallon race jug.

2) Future vehicles such as the Tesla Cybertruck which will allow the owner to transfer energy from their truck to their race bike when it needs recharged.


In my opinion Option 1 would be ideal for factory race teams and option 2 for weekend warriors.

Edit: After further thought option 1 with factory teams will probably be at a larger scale with a pack built into the trailer. I could see it being 10kWh of storage for each rider so a 3 rider team would have a 30kWh pack. This would cost maybe $5,000 (more complex components) upfront and recharging it would be $30 to $45 dollars. I wonder how much a race team spends a week on just race fuel?
dc to dc lol, do they make an AC battery now? Portable energy storage device. You mean, like a battery? Let me get this straight, you want to fast charge a battery operating voltage of 320volts with another battery?

You could always buy a Tesla Model S battery for 30,000$ and tote it around, it’s not 40lbs.. still won’t be able to fast charge but hey..

People don’t really understand this do they?
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1
3/2/2020 7:06am Edited Date/Time 3/2/2020 7:36am
There are not enough electrical outlet in a building for that many bikes, lol. What about a regional arenacross with 400 amateur riders, and one indoor...
There are not enough electrical outlet in a building for that many bikes, lol. What about a regional arenacross with 400 amateur riders, and one indoor pit. Not happening.
tcannon521 wrote:
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios: 1)...
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios:

1) Portable energy storage devices. You could easily have a 5 kWh device that might cost $1200 today and hopefully $500 in 3-5 years that would recharge your bike 3 to 4 times during the day. This has the potential to charge fast (DC to DC) if both ends are built properly. It would weigh around 30 pounds which is similar to a filled 5 gallon race jug.

2) Future vehicles such as the Tesla Cybertruck which will allow the owner to transfer energy from their truck to their race bike when it needs recharged.


In my opinion Option 1 would be ideal for factory race teams and option 2 for weekend warriors.

Edit: After further thought option 1 with factory teams will probably be at a larger scale with a pack built into the trailer. I could see it being 10kWh of storage for each rider so a 3 rider team would have a 30kWh pack. This would cost maybe $5,000 (more complex components) upfront and recharging it would be $30 to $45 dollars. I wonder how much a race team spends a week on just race fuel?
dc to dc lol, do they make an AC battery now? Portable energy storage device. You mean, like a battery? Let me get this straight, you...
dc to dc lol, do they make an AC battery now? Portable energy storage device. You mean, like a battery? Let me get this straight, you want to fast charge a battery operating voltage of 320volts with another battery?

You could always buy a Tesla Model S battery for 30,000$ and tote it around, it’s not 40lbs.. still won’t be able to fast charge but hey..

People don’t really understand this do they?
No, you really don’t understand.....

If you charge from an outlet the bike/automobile must be equipped with inverters and such to convert ac power to dc. How do you think Tesla transfers energy from their v3 superchargers at 250kw? Here’s a hint, it’s dc to dc with battery packs!! The actual voltage from a storage battery to the bike would depend on the thresholds of the battery, thermal management, components and state of charge. The reality is you’re probably only dealing with a 3-5kWh battery pack in a bike so charge times will be almost non relevant regardless of the transfer voltage.

More examples of your miss understanding: a Tesla Model S pack is 75 to 100kWh depending on the buildout. The 100kWh pack currently weighs about 1000 pounds and is 3.3 times the size I’m proposing. See how this is going for you?
1
3/2/2020 7:19am Edited Date/Time 3/2/2020 7:28am
Obviously none of these bikes are available or racing in the next 2-4 years and by then cost and weight will be even less. Furthermore, Tesla is hosting a battery day in April where they are expected to show off batteries with close to 500Wh/kg compared to the current level of 350Wh/kg. They are also expected to announce this will allow them to get to $100 per kWh cost. This achievement should finally break the threshold of cost for buying an EV over an ICE.
1
nickm
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702
Joined
9/15/2011
Location
CA
3/2/2020 7:56am Edited Date/Time 3/2/2020 8:10am
You would have to have a huge power grid and those countries won’t have that available
China is the worlds #1 electric producer by far. India is #3. I don't think either one will have problems making the power given they are already in the top 3 globally, or getting it around their relatively small land mass.

Honestly I just want a quiet bike that I can tear around in behind the house without noise complaints, and I want it from a manufacturer that is actually in the business of selling motorcycles.
4
3/2/2020 8:46am
Tarz483 wrote:
On the Topic of Noise, why in the world have the factories not worked on trying to make some quieter versions Of Motocross bikes, now more...
On the Topic of Noise, why in the world have the factories not worked on trying to make some quieter versions
Of Motocross bikes, now more than ever it's needed, and now more than ever we have power to spare,
Do you guys think they could make some quiet gas powered bikes?
How much less power would a 450 that's 50% quieter have?
And not at the pro level but could there be local racing with the quieter bikes?
I bought a new KTM 500 EXC-F last year and decided to keep the OEM pipe and muffler because they are so quiet. I did get a freer flowing muffler but god dang, the noise was way too much. I'd be OK with a louder exhaust on a mx track but not for cruisin around the suburbs and hitting up some clandestine urban trails that run close to houses.
3/2/2020 8:47am
Alta was cool but I'm not ready to switch to electric until the batteries have enough capacity to match a full large capacity tank of gas. Till then I'll be happy with my quiet EXC-F.
hanzhongluboy
Posts
116
Joined
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Location
Texas panhandle, TX US
3/2/2020 9:03am
nickm wrote:
Yamaha is making motors available to other manufacturers. Guaranteed they have a YZ -E running around somewhere. https://global.yamaha-motor.com/news/2020/0204/ev.html Don't forget that Asia-Pacific market bought almost 110...
Yamaha is making motors available to other manufacturers. Guaranteed they have a YZ -E running around somewhere.

https://global.yamaha-motor.com/news/2020/0204/ev.html

Don't forget that Asia-Pacific market bought almost 110 Million motorcycles last year vs. 2 million in North America. China and India are already legislating that everything needs to go electric by 2040 (1 billion people in a country the size of Texas makes for a bit of a shit show pollution wise). For sure the big bike makers are going to want a halo product on the podium in MXGP and AMA SX so they can sell the crap out of a modern day electric "Super Cub" equivalent.

Bring it on I say, endless torque and no noise riding of an electric dirt bike would be great. Having it supported by major makers would bring it into mainstream.
India is actually pretty massive. 5x the size of texas in land area. Source: am texan
3/3/2020 5:25am
tcannon521 wrote:
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios: 1)...
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios:

1) Portable energy storage devices. You could easily have a 5 kWh device that might cost $1200 today and hopefully $500 in 3-5 years that would recharge your bike 3 to 4 times during the day. This has the potential to charge fast (DC to DC) if both ends are built properly. It would weigh around 30 pounds which is similar to a filled 5 gallon race jug.

2) Future vehicles such as the Tesla Cybertruck which will allow the owner to transfer energy from their truck to their race bike when it needs recharged.


In my opinion Option 1 would be ideal for factory race teams and option 2 for weekend warriors.

Edit: After further thought option 1 with factory teams will probably be at a larger scale with a pack built into the trailer. I could see it being 10kWh of storage for each rider so a 3 rider team would have a 30kWh pack. This would cost maybe $5,000 (more complex components) upfront and recharging it would be $30 to $45 dollars. I wonder how much a race team spends a week on just race fuel?
dc to dc lol, do they make an AC battery now? Portable energy storage device. You mean, like a battery? Let me get this straight, you...
dc to dc lol, do they make an AC battery now? Portable energy storage device. You mean, like a battery? Let me get this straight, you want to fast charge a battery operating voltage of 320volts with another battery?

You could always buy a Tesla Model S battery for 30,000$ and tote it around, it’s not 40lbs.. still won’t be able to fast charge but hey..

People don’t really understand this do they?
tcannon521 wrote:
No, you really don’t understand..... If you charge from an outlet the bike/automobile must be equipped with inverters and such to convert ac power to dc...
No, you really don’t understand.....

If you charge from an outlet the bike/automobile must be equipped with inverters and such to convert ac power to dc. How do you think Tesla transfers energy from their v3 superchargers at 250kw? Here’s a hint, it’s dc to dc with battery packs!! The actual voltage from a storage battery to the bike would depend on the thresholds of the battery, thermal management, components and state of charge. The reality is you’re probably only dealing with a 3-5kWh battery pack in a bike so charge times will be almost non relevant regardless of the transfer voltage.

More examples of your miss understanding: a Tesla Model S pack is 75 to 100kWh depending on the buildout. The 100kWh pack currently weighs about 1000 pounds and is 3.3 times the size I’m proposing. See how this is going for you?
Dude, all power generated in the world is in the form of AC, man made. Batteries which are a simply chemical composition generate DC power. You CANNOT charger an battery with AC. Battery chargers have a rectifier with chops half the sine wave and makes DC, or it can be done with mosfet by chopping up the power (which is more efficient).
These cars have a rectifier in them so if you plug into your household power it makes DC for you. Tesla also has a station which already does this outside the car at 480volts from commercial 3 phase. You can ONLY push so hard and fast before you wreck the battery.. and you can only charger DC to DC (AC doesn’t really have a polarity). They ramp up voltage so you can use smaller wire to transfer it, remember when cars were 6 volts? Remember the wire size to headlights before 12 volts and relays came along? That’s why they push power at 400,000 volts commercial and 13,800 city.

So again, I ask you, what is this mini storage device you are thinking about that costs 500$ and weighs 30lbs that will provide 400 volts to quick charge your bike? These batteries are made up of small cells, they aren’t light or cheap. I have a bunch of Tesla batteries sitting on my shelf..
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2
3/3/2020 5:31am
tcannon521 wrote:
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios: 1)...
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios:

1) Portable energy storage devices. You could easily have a 5 kWh device that might cost $1200 today and hopefully $500 in 3-5 years that would recharge your bike 3 to 4 times during the day. This has the potential to charge fast (DC to DC) if both ends are built properly. It would weigh around 30 pounds which is similar to a filled 5 gallon race jug.

2) Future vehicles such as the Tesla Cybertruck which will allow the owner to transfer energy from their truck to their race bike when it needs recharged.


In my opinion Option 1 would be ideal for factory race teams and option 2 for weekend warriors.

Edit: After further thought option 1 with factory teams will probably be at a larger scale with a pack built into the trailer. I could see it being 10kWh of storage for each rider so a 3 rider team would have a 30kWh pack. This would cost maybe $5,000 (more complex components) upfront and recharging it would be $30 to $45 dollars. I wonder how much a race team spends a week on just race fuel?
dc to dc lol, do they make an AC battery now? Portable energy storage device. You mean, like a battery? Let me get this straight, you...
dc to dc lol, do they make an AC battery now? Portable energy storage device. You mean, like a battery? Let me get this straight, you want to fast charge a battery operating voltage of 320volts with another battery?

You could always buy a Tesla Model S battery for 30,000$ and tote it around, it’s not 40lbs.. still won’t be able to fast charge but hey..

People don’t really understand this do they?
tcannon521 wrote:
No, you really don’t understand..... If you charge from an outlet the bike/automobile must be equipped with inverters and such to convert ac power to dc...
No, you really don’t understand.....

If you charge from an outlet the bike/automobile must be equipped with inverters and such to convert ac power to dc. How do you think Tesla transfers energy from their v3 superchargers at 250kw? Here’s a hint, it’s dc to dc with battery packs!! The actual voltage from a storage battery to the bike would depend on the thresholds of the battery, thermal management, components and state of charge. The reality is you’re probably only dealing with a 3-5kWh battery pack in a bike so charge times will be almost non relevant regardless of the transfer voltage.

More examples of your miss understanding: a Tesla Model S pack is 75 to 100kWh depending on the buildout. The 100kWh pack currently weighs about 1000 pounds and is 3.3 times the size I’m proposing. See how this is going for you?
By the way, inverters make AC from DC.
1
3/3/2020 5:45am
tcannon521 wrote:
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios: 1)...
Adding electrical receptacles is an easy proposition and financially viable since the facility can charge for hookups but I’ll play along with some more scenarios:

1) Portable energy storage devices. You could easily have a 5 kWh device that might cost $1200 today and hopefully $500 in 3-5 years that would recharge your bike 3 to 4 times during the day. This has the potential to charge fast (DC to DC) if both ends are built properly. It would weigh around 30 pounds which is similar to a filled 5 gallon race jug.

2) Future vehicles such as the Tesla Cybertruck which will allow the owner to transfer energy from their truck to their race bike when it needs recharged.


In my opinion Option 1 would be ideal for factory race teams and option 2 for weekend warriors.

Edit: After further thought option 1 with factory teams will probably be at a larger scale with a pack built into the trailer. I could see it being 10kWh of storage for each rider so a 3 rider team would have a 30kWh pack. This would cost maybe $5,000 (more complex components) upfront and recharging it would be $30 to $45 dollars. I wonder how much a race team spends a week on just race fuel?
dc to dc lol, do they make an AC battery now? Portable energy storage device. You mean, like a battery? Let me get this straight, you...
dc to dc lol, do they make an AC battery now? Portable energy storage device. You mean, like a battery? Let me get this straight, you want to fast charge a battery operating voltage of 320volts with another battery?

You could always buy a Tesla Model S battery for 30,000$ and tote it around, it’s not 40lbs.. still won’t be able to fast charge but hey..

People don’t really understand this do they?
tcannon521 wrote:
No, you really don’t understand..... If you charge from an outlet the bike/automobile must be equipped with inverters and such to convert ac power to dc...
No, you really don’t understand.....

If you charge from an outlet the bike/automobile must be equipped with inverters and such to convert ac power to dc. How do you think Tesla transfers energy from their v3 superchargers at 250kw? Here’s a hint, it’s dc to dc with battery packs!! The actual voltage from a storage battery to the bike would depend on the thresholds of the battery, thermal management, components and state of charge. The reality is you’re probably only dealing with a 3-5kWh battery pack in a bike so charge times will be almost non relevant regardless of the transfer voltage.

More examples of your miss understanding: a Tesla Model S pack is 75 to 100kWh depending on the buildout. The 100kWh pack currently weighs about 1000 pounds and is 3.3 times the size I’m proposing. See how this is going for you?
You could series 33 lead acid batteries together at 40lbs a piece. You need a bigger trailer to take to the track..
I don’t know of a single track or household that has 480 commercial 3 phase so fast charging out. You know, I kinda like just filling a bike with gasoline, takes 30 seconds for a full charge.

Maybe we could bury a huge capacitor under ground at race tracks and hope for a lightning strike. Not sure how it’s possible to takes millions of volts and do anything with it but it would be free energy. If anyone walked within a half mile of the cathode they would get nailed as a grounding potential 😂 for discharge. I’m sure Tesla will figure it out though.. we just need more lithium mined and AC created using fossil fuels
1
3/3/2020 6:57am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2020 7:05am
Dude, all power generated in the world is in the form of AC, man made. Batteries which are a simply chemical composition generate DC power. You...
Dude, all power generated in the world is in the form of AC, man made. Batteries which are a simply chemical composition generate DC power. You CANNOT charger an battery with AC. Battery chargers have a rectifier with chops half the sine wave and makes DC, or it can be done with mosfet by chopping up the power (which is more efficient).
These cars have a rectifier in them so if you plug into your household power it makes DC for you. Tesla also has a station which already does this outside the car at 480volts from commercial 3 phase. You can ONLY push so hard and fast before you wreck the battery.. and you can only charger DC to DC (AC doesn’t really have a polarity). They ramp up voltage so you can use smaller wire to transfer it, remember when cars were 6 volts? Remember the wire size to headlights before 12 volts and relays came along? That’s why they push power at 400,000 volts commercial and 13,800 city.

So again, I ask you, what is this mini storage device you are thinking about that costs 500$ and weighs 30lbs that will provide 400 volts to quick charge your bike? These batteries are made up of small cells, they aren’t light or cheap. I have a bunch of Tesla batteries sitting on my shelf..
We are almost saying the same thing. Let me try again.... If smaller (5kWh) packs are built (think usb cellphone chargers on a grander scale) they will come in around 35 to 50 pounds and hopefully cost $500. If factory teams decide to build an in truck power storage “battery” i think it will be 30kWh to 50kWh and cost probably around $5000. It will weigh more like 300 to 500 pounds. In my mind, I’m not really worried about charging times. I think teams will have plenty of time to charge back up or be allowed 2 or 3 packs to switch between during race day.

*Keep in mind, we are talking about 3 to 5 years in the future so I’m speculating cost and weight a little bit*

I mostly understand dc and ac power but I’m know where near an expert on it. I do try to learn more about it daily as I feel it’s only going to keep being more relevant. My home EVSE for my Tesla is 7.7kW. It came with the vehicle. The vehicle has the ability to handle about 17.2kW AC via the onboard charger but there was no need since the vehicle charges overnight. We did plumb the outlet for 60 amps but I doubt we will ever get above 32 amps unless a future vehicle comes with a higher output EVSE.
1
3/3/2020 7:03am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2020 7:06am
For reference, Tesla used these last year on some high traffic areas of CA during the Holidays. This is a 3MWh pack which would probably power the complete SX series for a year 🤣

Big Ass Battery
1
sandtrack315
Posts
2827
Joined
7/19/2013
Location
Philadelphia, PA US
3/3/2020 8:02am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2020 8:02am
The bottleneck is battery price and weight. If battery tech follows Moore's law, expect electric dirt bikes to be available in 5-6 years, much better than 4-strokes in 10-12.

These bikes will be more expensive, but maintenance costs will be much lower.

Once the weight comes down, I think they will handle better as well. You have more flexibility with geometry, center of mass, et cetera, when you don't need to have intake and exhaust.
1
kakarot
Posts
390
Joined
4/30/2011
Location
Citrus Heights, CA US
3/3/2020 2:54pm
I think next we'll see small MTB/MX hybrid bikes catch on as the price comes down and tomorrows youth will have a new way to piss off security guards.As for who I know Harley teased something like this, cant see it going forward though given recent developments at HQ.
https://www.ubcobikes.com/us/
https://evnerds.com/electric-vehicles/e-motorcycle-news/torp-motors-new…
Pirate421
Posts
1826
Joined
7/26/2015
Location
MA US
3/3/2020 6:13pm
All I know is I bought my kid a stacyc 16 this weekend and I’m extremely jealous there isn’t an adult version. It’s very basic but she has a blast on it in the back yard and when we walk the dog. I’m thankful for it because she is afraid of the noise of my yz and even a pw at this point so it gets her riding.
3
3/3/2020 7:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/3/2020 7:23pm
The bottleneck is battery price and weight. If battery tech follows Moore's law, expect electric dirt bikes to be available in 5-6 years, much better than...
The bottleneck is battery price and weight. If battery tech follows Moore's law, expect electric dirt bikes to be available in 5-6 years, much better than 4-strokes in 10-12.

These bikes will be more expensive, but maintenance costs will be much lower.

Once the weight comes down, I think they will handle better as well. You have more flexibility with geometry, center of mass, et cetera, when you don't need to have intake and exhaust.
Agreed, i could use a little more range sometimes, but not usually. I typically get about 30 minutes of riding time if i'm pushing hard here at SoCal tracks, which is pushing the limits of my fitness anyway.

Yup, maintenance costs go WAY down.

Just recently crossed 100 hours on my Alta MXR. Here about sums up the maintenance i've had to do.

-3 suspension rebuilds and about to do the 4th (25hr intervals, like any dirtbike should)
-8 sets of tires (i change every 10-15 hrs, really depends on the dirt i'm riding at the time)
-2 chains, not including the original. Probably could have gone 50hrs on each chain, but i'm picky.
-1 rear sprocket (dirt tricks lasts forever)
- 2x 100mL gear oil changes. One at 10 hours, one at 50 hours. Alta said you can go 100 hours between gear oil changes, but again, i'm picky.

Sound familiar? Thats normal stuff you'd do on any dirtbike, or at least you're supposed to. Now here's all the stuff I haven't even had to think about:

No messing with air filter cleaning and oiling
No oil filters
No engine oil mess
No clutch plates/fibers to replace
No clutch basket to replace
No cables of any kind (clutch, throttle, etc) to replace
No valve adjustments
No top end rebuilds
No bottom end rebuilds
No transmission issues
No need to buy special fuel
No jetting or remapping

Think about how much time spent doing all the I.C.E. related maintenance items over time. At my paygrade, the time saved alone is worth it. And i say that as a gearhead who enjoys working his dirtbikes!


10
level
Posts
6184
Joined
8/27/2006
Location
Acworth, GA US
3/3/2020 7:26pm Edited Date/Time 3/3/2020 7:27pm
Thanks for posting. That was a cool video. Damn you were flying man. Good stuff. Changed my opinion on those bikes seeing that.
Electric Mx bikes will only get better.
I can’t wait for the first pro to line up on the gates with the 4 bangers much like what happened with the 450 with heath voss being like the only one on a 450 if I remember right.
3/3/2020 10:49pm
The bottleneck is battery price and weight. If battery tech follows Moore's law, expect electric dirt bikes to be available in 5-6 years, much better than...
The bottleneck is battery price and weight. If battery tech follows Moore's law, expect electric dirt bikes to be available in 5-6 years, much better than 4-strokes in 10-12.

These bikes will be more expensive, but maintenance costs will be much lower.

Once the weight comes down, I think they will handle better as well. You have more flexibility with geometry, center of mass, et cetera, when you don't need to have intake and exhaust.
Agreed, i could use a little more range sometimes, but not usually. I typically get about 30 minutes of riding time if i'm pushing hard here...
Agreed, i could use a little more range sometimes, but not usually. I typically get about 30 minutes of riding time if i'm pushing hard here at SoCal tracks, which is pushing the limits of my fitness anyway.

Yup, maintenance costs go WAY down.

Just recently crossed 100 hours on my Alta MXR. Here about sums up the maintenance i've had to do.

-3 suspension rebuilds and about to do the 4th (25hr intervals, like any dirtbike should)
-8 sets of tires (i change every 10-15 hrs, really depends on the dirt i'm riding at the time)
-2 chains, not including the original. Probably could have gone 50hrs on each chain, but i'm picky.
-1 rear sprocket (dirt tricks lasts forever)
- 2x 100mL gear oil changes. One at 10 hours, one at 50 hours. Alta said you can go 100 hours between gear oil changes, but again, i'm picky.

Sound familiar? Thats normal stuff you'd do on any dirtbike, or at least you're supposed to. Now here's all the stuff I haven't even had to think about:

No messing with air filter cleaning and oiling
No oil filters
No engine oil mess
No clutch plates/fibers to replace
No clutch basket to replace
No cables of any kind (clutch, throttle, etc) to replace
No valve adjustments
No top end rebuilds
No bottom end rebuilds
No transmission issues
No need to buy special fuel
No jetting or remapping

Think about how much time spent doing all the I.C.E. related maintenance items over time. At my paygrade, the time saved alone is worth it. And i say that as a gearhead who enjoys working his dirtbikes!


I wish I had one myself,
What will be the part that brings you fun to a stop permanently.
The motor, electronic controller or the motor structure ?
What are your plans for repairs, do you have some parts hidden away?
Excaliburbmx
Posts
1868
Joined
6/21/2014
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
3/4/2020 1:56am
The tech efficiency and execution is just not where it needs to be for many uses.

3/5/2020 4:35am
The bottleneck is battery price and weight. If battery tech follows Moore's law, expect electric dirt bikes to be available in 5-6 years, much better than...
The bottleneck is battery price and weight. If battery tech follows Moore's law, expect electric dirt bikes to be available in 5-6 years, much better than 4-strokes in 10-12.

These bikes will be more expensive, but maintenance costs will be much lower.

Once the weight comes down, I think they will handle better as well. You have more flexibility with geometry, center of mass, et cetera, when you don't need to have intake and exhaust.
Agreed, i could use a little more range sometimes, but not usually. I typically get about 30 minutes of riding time if i'm pushing hard here...
Agreed, i could use a little more range sometimes, but not usually. I typically get about 30 minutes of riding time if i'm pushing hard here at SoCal tracks, which is pushing the limits of my fitness anyway.

Yup, maintenance costs go WAY down.

Just recently crossed 100 hours on my Alta MXR. Here about sums up the maintenance i've had to do.

-3 suspension rebuilds and about to do the 4th (25hr intervals, like any dirtbike should)
-8 sets of tires (i change every 10-15 hrs, really depends on the dirt i'm riding at the time)
-2 chains, not including the original. Probably could have gone 50hrs on each chain, but i'm picky.
-1 rear sprocket (dirt tricks lasts forever)
- 2x 100mL gear oil changes. One at 10 hours, one at 50 hours. Alta said you can go 100 hours between gear oil changes, but again, i'm picky.

Sound familiar? Thats normal stuff you'd do on any dirtbike, or at least you're supposed to. Now here's all the stuff I haven't even had to think about:

No messing with air filter cleaning and oiling
No oil filters
No engine oil mess
No clutch plates/fibers to replace
No clutch basket to replace
No cables of any kind (clutch, throttle, etc) to replace
No valve adjustments
No top end rebuilds
No bottom end rebuilds
No transmission issues
No need to buy special fuel
No jetting or remapping

Think about how much time spent doing all the I.C.E. related maintenance items over time. At my paygrade, the time saved alone is worth it. And i say that as a gearhead who enjoys working his dirtbikes!


Definitely some bonus there. I think the lack of noise would help with race tracks. I guess we can only hope someday that battery technology advances to a stage where you can ride the bike all day, and the weight comes down.

Personally, I Don’t understand the 4 stroke evolution.. they really don’t need to be this loud. They could use an exhaust that’s much quieter at a small sacrifice which would help. I am a moto guy for life and it saddens me to see the sport diminishing..
3
Markee
Posts
3658
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
3/5/2020 6:44am
Definitely some bonus there. I think the lack of noise would help with race tracks. I guess we can only hope someday that battery technology advances...
Definitely some bonus there. I think the lack of noise would help with race tracks. I guess we can only hope someday that battery technology advances to a stage where you can ride the bike all day, and the weight comes down.

Personally, I Don’t understand the 4 stroke evolution.. they really don’t need to be this loud. They could use an exhaust that’s much quieter at a small sacrifice which would help. I am a moto guy for life and it saddens me to see the sport diminishing..
I wouldn't worry about the "sport diminishing". You have to think back to the first time you smiled while riding, keep doing that.

Moto Norcal
Posts
177
Joined
12/6/2019
Location
Grass Valley, CA US
3/5/2020 1:53pm
I don't see electric bikes replacing the current sport, but it will likely (and hopefully) create a new sport, that might keep people riding when they might have otherwise might have quit because of lack of riding areas etc. I assume the easier riding and dialability of the powerband might make them slightly safer to ride, but I really don't know.
I'd like to have both, because I could do a helluva lot more riding in my backyard.
It's inevitable that CARB will make sales of new internal combustion engines illegal in California coming decades. They know there is no other way to meet state EV goals and decarbonization goals, which are already in place.
4
Zoom
Posts
1358
Joined
10/21/2012
Location
Cypress, TX US
3/5/2020 7:56pm
Pirate421 wrote:
All I know is I bought my kid a stacyc 16 this weekend and I’m extremely jealous there isn’t an adult version. It’s very basic but...
All I know is I bought my kid a stacyc 16 this weekend and I’m extremely jealous there isn’t an adult version. It’s very basic but she has a blast on it in the back yard and when we walk the dog. I’m thankful for it because she is afraid of the noise of my yz and even a pw at this point so it gets her riding.
There is an 18 inch and 20 inch model coming out later this year...
2

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