What’s the best/safest helmet you can get, and are there any tests to prove it?

Jt$
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12/10/2019 10:06am
kb228 wrote:
You know the fly helmet is snell rated right?

Id rather have the puncture protection of snell combined with anti rotation tech such as mips...
Jt$ wrote:
No sir, that is incorrect.
kb228 wrote:
Had to double check because i was 110% sure i saw a snell rating.

F2 helmets are snell rated. Not the formula.
The 2018 and previous models, yes. 2019 and 2020 are ECE/DOT.
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ATKpilot99
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12/10/2019 10:31am


The Fuel Frenzy DOT approved and only 40 bucks at Walmart.
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Cortami79
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12/10/2019 11:26am
Jt$ wrote:
The 2018 and previous models, yes. 2019 and 2020 are ECE/DOT.
Just a question out of topic, but something I wonder for a long time. I saw Weston Peicks’ crash in Paris in person and was amazed that he is still alive. He was wearing the new Fly helmet right? The helmet obviously saved his life. Did you research the helmet after the impact and did you use those variables for further studies? Just wondering about this
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Johnny Depp
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12/10/2019 11:34am
Jt$ wrote:
The 2018 and previous models, yes. 2019 and 2020 are ECE/DOT.
Cortami79 wrote:
Just a question out of topic, but something I wonder for a long time. I saw Weston Peicks’ crash in Paris in person and was amazed...
Just a question out of topic, but something I wonder for a long time. I saw Weston Peicks’ crash in Paris in person and was amazed that he is still alive. He was wearing the new Fly helmet right? The helmet obviously saved his life. Did you research the helmet after the impact and did you use those variables for further studies? Just wondering about this
Not sure about WP's Fly, but Kali offers a Limited Lifetime Crash Replacement (LCR) Policy.

"Why do I need to send in my old helmet?

You must submit your helmet for inspection to be approved as a crashed helmet before a replacement can be sent out. Kali also uses these crashed helmets for in-depth performance analysis. "

https://kaliprotectives.com/pages/register

It seems like a really good value, and the continuing research will pay dividends in the future.
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Jt$
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12/10/2019 11:53am
Jt$ wrote:
The 2018 and previous models, yes. 2019 and 2020 are ECE/DOT.
Cortami79 wrote:
Just a question out of topic, but something I wonder for a long time. I saw Weston Peicks’ crash in Paris in person and was amazed...
Just a question out of topic, but something I wonder for a long time. I saw Weston Peicks’ crash in Paris in person and was amazed that he is still alive. He was wearing the new Fly helmet right? The helmet obviously saved his life. Did you research the helmet after the impact and did you use those variables for further studies? Just wondering about this
Yes, he was wearing the Formula. The toughest part of that was the impact (frame) went directly into the eye port. That's why there was so much facial damage. There isn't much anyone can do to protect the eye port from a direct hit.
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msp332
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12/10/2019 12:31pm
Tests to prove it: Leatt is the only manufacturer that publishes independent test data. All manufacturers should do this.

Snell M2015 helmets: Arai, Bell, Fly, HJC, Shoei and Troy Lee Designs. For those commenting that Snell is designed for higher speeds- the test impact is at 17 mph. That's to prevent death.

6D has some marketing material with limited data. Aside from Leatt and 6D, I see no reason to choose another ECE rated helmet over a Snell M2015 helmet.

Please do your own research and don't rely on message boards!
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msp332
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12/10/2019 12:54pm
McG194 wrote:
That is the worst thing to do. Snell testing is considered to tough for street bike helmets which crash much faster than we do. What you...
That is the worst thing to do.

Snell testing is considered to tough for street bike helmets which crash much faster than we do. What you don't want in a helmet is a helmet that looks good after a crash that your brain is jello.

My suggestion is to use something with anti-rotational technology. 6D is the most well known but Leatt has their own, Fly has their own and MIPS is licensed out to many brands. Any of those are better than a Snell helmet designed for roadracing crashes.
kb228 wrote:
You know the fly helmet is snell rated right?

Id rather have the puncture protection of snell combined with anti rotation tech such as mips...
McG194 wrote:
I did not know that it was Snell rated. That would take it off the list for me. In the mid 00's Motorcyclist magazine had a...
I did not know that it was Snell rated. That would take it off the list for me.

In the mid 00's Motorcyclist magazine had a rather lengthy article discussing pros and cons on the Snell rating and it sold me that Snell had just gone too far. Cliff notes version is Snell decelerates the brain far too rapidly. You could encase your head in roll bar material and the helmet could survive any crash but brain would be mush.

My understanding of things that need to happen to minimize brain injury:

1) Stop the head and keep things from puncturing the skull.
2) Slow the head down in a controlled manner within the helmet.
3) Hopefully the head is slowed down enough that the fluid surrounding the brain can do it's job and slow the brain down from banging into the skull.
The author of that article was fired. That article had no medical study behind it.
What is "decelerates the brain far too rapidly"? What is the medical basis for this?
The only motorsport helmet impact test standards that exist are for preventing death. The idea of designing to prevent brain injuries has been around but there must be medical direction to establish what acceleration causes a brain injury, and what acceleration threshold should be a design goal.
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nascarnate326
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12/10/2019 1:23pm
6D or Fly Formula would be my picks.
Johnny Depp
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12/10/2019 2:36pm
kb228 wrote:
You know the fly helmet is snell rated right?

Id rather have the puncture protection of snell combined with anti rotation tech such as mips...
McG194 wrote:
I did not know that it was Snell rated. That would take it off the list for me. In the mid 00's Motorcyclist magazine had a...
I did not know that it was Snell rated. That would take it off the list for me.

In the mid 00's Motorcyclist magazine had a rather lengthy article discussing pros and cons on the Snell rating and it sold me that Snell had just gone too far. Cliff notes version is Snell decelerates the brain far too rapidly. You could encase your head in roll bar material and the helmet could survive any crash but brain would be mush.

My understanding of things that need to happen to minimize brain injury:

1) Stop the head and keep things from puncturing the skull.
2) Slow the head down in a controlled manner within the helmet.
3) Hopefully the head is slowed down enough that the fluid surrounding the brain can do it's job and slow the brain down from banging into the skull.
msp332 wrote:
The author of that article was fired. That article had no medical study behind it. What is "decelerates the brain far too rapidly"? What is the...
The author of that article was fired. That article had no medical study behind it.
What is "decelerates the brain far too rapidly"? What is the medical basis for this?
The only motorsport helmet impact test standards that exist are for preventing death. The idea of designing to prevent brain injuries has been around but there must be medical direction to establish what acceleration causes a brain injury, and what acceleration threshold should be a design goal.
It's not too hard to look at the recent progress from the NFL and surmise what works. If we wait on who pays off the "medical study" it will take decades and they will change it every few decades.

What are your thoughts on "disposable" and unseen damage to helmets and their relation to risk? I'm assuming you are an insider?
crowe176
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12/10/2019 2:54pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2019 2:55pm
Kind of off topic, I was recently at a Dicks sporting goods and I couldn’t believe youth football helmets are still as heavy as they were back when I played on the 90’s..
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12/10/2019 3:45pm
Anyone have experience with the new UFO Diamond helmets?
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McG194
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12/10/2019 4:11pm
kb228 wrote:
You know the fly helmet is snell rated right?

Id rather have the puncture protection of snell combined with anti rotation tech such as mips...
McG194 wrote:
I did not know that it was Snell rated. That would take it off the list for me. In the mid 00's Motorcyclist magazine had a...
I did not know that it was Snell rated. That would take it off the list for me.

In the mid 00's Motorcyclist magazine had a rather lengthy article discussing pros and cons on the Snell rating and it sold me that Snell had just gone too far. Cliff notes version is Snell decelerates the brain far too rapidly. You could encase your head in roll bar material and the helmet could survive any crash but brain would be mush.

My understanding of things that need to happen to minimize brain injury:

1) Stop the head and keep things from puncturing the skull.
2) Slow the head down in a controlled manner within the helmet.
3) Hopefully the head is slowed down enough that the fluid surrounding the brain can do it's job and slow the brain down from banging into the skull.
msp332 wrote:
The author of that article was fired. That article had no medical study behind it. What is "decelerates the brain far too rapidly"? What is the...
The author of that article was fired. That article had no medical study behind it.
What is "decelerates the brain far too rapidly"? What is the medical basis for this?
The only motorsport helmet impact test standards that exist are for preventing death. The idea of designing to prevent brain injuries has been around but there must be medical direction to establish what acceleration causes a brain injury, and what acceleration threshold should be a design goal.
No chance that the magazine faced any backlash from advertisers was there.

As far as decelerates the brain too rapidly most fatalities aren't where something punctures the helmet and head it is what is known as a closed head injury. The head looks fine but not to be too gross brain fluid will be coming from where it shouldn't be. The fluid is cerebralspinal fluid and it cushions the brain inside the skull. The whole idea behind a helmet is to decelerate the brain slow enough that your brain fluid (and holes in your brain) can do their jobs and continue to slow the brain. As I said in an earlier post you could make an indestructible helmet out of roll bar tubing and end up killing everybody that used it because it just stopped the brain it didn't slow it down. A helmet is nothing more than the crumple zones on a car.

If my thinking is wrong then how come high end helmets like the Fly Formula, the 6D and Leatt are not getting Snell certified? 6D won a huge cash award from the NFL for their work. The idea behind helmet safety has made a big shift in the past 15 years, having a helmet withstand consecutive 300g impacts at the same place is effectively useless for what we do.
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12/10/2019 4:35pm
I have yet to see any of this stuff is any better. The amount of concussions today is worse and far many more. I feel just...
I have yet to see any of this stuff is any better. The amount of concussions today is worse and far many more.

I feel just as safe in my old moto 4 as a new lid.
Jt$ wrote:
Science would highly disagree with you. My opinion is that the overall speeds are MUCH higher today. A 450 has nearly 60 HP stock. A Bell...
Science would highly disagree with you.

My opinion is that the overall speeds are MUCH higher today. A 450 has nearly 60 HP stock. A Bell Moto 4 was what, mid 80's era? Those bikes had less than 30 HP in many cases (250 2 stroke). That's not apples to apples. The crashes today are much faster, much more violent, and much more dependent on impact protection.
Except when YouTube has old videos from old races showing crashes just as violent and as bad as anything today. Landing on someone's head in SX happened in the 80s, and so did high speed cartwheeling swap outs and endos.

There is one of Albertyn I think that comes to mind.
And the one of Mike Craig landing on someone's head as they were coming up the 3rd jump of a triple. 1988 I think.

I have no evidence anything today is better or worse, but I will say some newer lids are far flimsier and cheaper feeling than an older and heavier lid.

I dont have a rubber neck so I couldn't care less what the weight is if it works.

Maybe the better technology is offsetting the loss in weight netting a relative zero improvement in safety
Light weight has to come from less material somewhere.

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MxKing809
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Fantasy
12/10/2019 4:52pm
I’m in the market as well.

Looked at 6D and they have test graphics at 6 m/s. I knocked myself out this summer going somewhere close to 16 m/s..... so I think that it’s safe to assume that 6D looses their competitive advantage past 6 m/s.

I have no idea what to do. Throw a blanket over Fly, Fox, 6D, Bell and Shoei. It’s all so crash dependent everyone is lying if they say theirs is the hands down best.
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MPJC
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12/10/2019 5:32pm
I see lots of “I feel safe in...” phrases. It’s good to feel comfortable and secure in what you’re wearing but I doubt that feeling like you’re safe is a reliable indicator of actual safety.
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billyp330
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12/10/2019 5:51pm
Jt$ wrote:
Pretty obvious which I lean towards but regardless, I would highly suggest a "new generation tech" helmet. The more recent studies showing the benefits of softer...
Pretty obvious which I lean towards but regardless, I would highly suggest a "new generation tech" helmet. The more recent studies showing the benefits of softer shells for low speed impact can't be overstated. That's where most of the improvements have been made by everyone.

There are a several quality products out there which is a great thing for consumer safety. The FLY Formula is my favorite (biased yes), given the past few years of helmet education I have lived through. I still think the weight advantage of the Formula is what sets it apart more than anything else. Helmet technology is changing every day but to have a helmet with Rheon, Conehead EPS, 12K carbon, breakaway visor, etc and STILL only weigh 2.79 lbs (1290 grams), that's an easy win even for a bad salesman like me.
Where do I find weight info on fly helmets? I’m looking to get my 5 yr old daughter and 3 yr old son new helmets and from my experience with my sons current fly and daughters fox helmet is that they are poorly designed for a pw rider. They are basically a slightly scaled down version of the adult sizes and are way to heavy and bulky. At the low speeds they are averaging (about 10mph) I’m mainly concerned about weight and have been thinking of going with mtb helmets instead of moto helmets for this reason. Also I noticed the Formula is only available in youth large. Are their plans for smaller sizes?
12/11/2019 12:51am
Been wearin arai’s this past 3 years, took some major diggers from 5m height to the ground without bike etc, for those hard hits they are good. Every lowspeed tipover or swapout i banged my head and 100% of the times i had a good week of concussion.

Going to give this a go upcoming season
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12/11/2019 1:43am
DannyST107 wrote:
Been wearin arai’s this past 3 years, took some major diggers from 5m height to the ground without bike etc, for those hard hits they are...
Been wearin arai’s this past 3 years, took some major diggers from 5m height to the ground without bike etc, for those hard hits they are good. Every lowspeed tipover or swapout i banged my head and 100% of the times i had a good week of concussion.

Going to give this a go upcoming season
I think I’m leaning towards that myself
Spooner
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12/11/2019 5:50am
With MXGP now going the way of the FIM approval for their helmets next year it will be interesting to see who passes and who doesn't. Its cause a little bit of a ruckus on the roadracing side this year with some big brands not passing.
Ramrod
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12/11/2019 6:06am
Motogoof wrote:
Surprised no one has mentioned Leatt 5.5?
McG194 wrote:
I mentioned the Leatt and that's the helmet I run.
I think the Leatt is underrated but it is relatively new.

TLD helmet is good. Pingree alluded to the fact that the helmets he was surprised by in the testing and those could have been major brands and TLD ranked high.
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crowe176
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12/11/2019 6:27am
I really wanted a TLD but they fit my egg shaped head horribly. Same with Bell. Was always a Bell guy, but ever since the Moto 8, they don’t feel right. Ended up with a Shoei for now.
Jt$
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12/11/2019 6:45am
billyp330 wrote:
Where do I find weight info on fly helmets? I’m looking to get my 5 yr old daughter and 3 yr old son new helmets and...
Where do I find weight info on fly helmets? I’m looking to get my 5 yr old daughter and 3 yr old son new helmets and from my experience with my sons current fly and daughters fox helmet is that they are poorly designed for a pw rider. They are basically a slightly scaled down version of the adult sizes and are way to heavy and bulky. At the low speeds they are averaging (about 10mph) I’m mainly concerned about weight and have been thinking of going with mtb helmets instead of moto helmets for this reason. Also I noticed the Formula is only available in youth large. Are their plans for smaller sizes?
Email me and I can get you a list of weights (jthomas@flyracing.com)

On the size concern, there are parents that use our BMX Default helmet or MTB Carbon Werx for children especially those doing both BMX and riding a PW, but I can’t really recommend that since it’s not the intended usage.

On the youth Formula, we offer YS and YM liner/cheek pads to fit the YL shell. That YL shell is around 2.5 lbs.
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Jt$
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12/11/2019 6:49am
Except when YouTube has old videos from old races showing crashes just as violent and as bad as anything today. Landing on someone's head in SX...
Except when YouTube has old videos from old races showing crashes just as violent and as bad as anything today. Landing on someone's head in SX happened in the 80s, and so did high speed cartwheeling swap outs and endos.

There is one of Albertyn I think that comes to mind.
And the one of Mike Craig landing on someone's head as they were coming up the 3rd jump of a triple. 1988 I think.

I have no evidence anything today is better or worse, but I will say some newer lids are far flimsier and cheaper feeling than an older and heavier lid.

I dont have a rubber neck so I couldn't care less what the weight is if it works.

Maybe the better technology is offsetting the loss in weight netting a relative zero improvement in safety
Light weight has to come from less material somewhere.

I’m not really sure where to start here. I certainly don’t know everything on helmets but I’m learning more daily. My advice would be to read up on this stuff, especially on the weight concerns. There is a lot of new info out there which is great for consumers to make their decisions based upon.
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Markopolo400
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12/11/2019 6:54am
My only gripe with Fly is the way they ranked competitive helmets on the last page of their report.

http://www.wpsstatic.com/miscimages/info/Formula-Benchmark-Data-Testing…

That being said, I need a new helmet in the spring and Fly is on the short list after wearing Arai for the last 14 years.
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Mr. Info
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12/11/2019 6:55am
One major thing to understand is like a boxer we all are different in results of hitting our head. You can be knocked out just by a quick snap of the neck and not am impact to the head. What may knock one rider out could just bell ring the other. If you have had a major concussion before you are at a risk of the next hit causing the same or greater results.
If their a major player in this industry their top line helmet is very good. Fit is number 1, but fit also includes how it feels in action. I had a helmet from a major player and fit felt fantastic but as I rode it put pressure on a muscle in my neck the caused a headache after 5 to 10 minutes racing in it. I sold it with 15 minutes of wear. Top of their line helmet.
What I am saying fit is foremost but until you have a few minutes in it you really don’t know.
ECE is a great standard for helmets. And models that are sold in Europe have that as their standard and every major player here has to meet ECE to be raced in Europe. It’s all your personal choice so use your head.
Madmax31
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Fantasy
12/11/2019 10:46am
I have yet to see any of this stuff is any better. The amount of concussions today is worse and far many more. I feel just...
I have yet to see any of this stuff is any better. The amount of concussions today is worse and far many more.

I feel just as safe in my old moto 4 as a new lid.
Jt$ wrote:
Science would highly disagree with you. My opinion is that the overall speeds are MUCH higher today. A 450 has nearly 60 HP stock. A Bell...
Science would highly disagree with you.

My opinion is that the overall speeds are MUCH higher today. A 450 has nearly 60 HP stock. A Bell Moto 4 was what, mid 80's era? Those bikes had less than 30 HP in many cases (250 2 stroke). That's not apples to apples. The crashes today are much faster, much more violent, and much more dependent on impact protection.
WTF, you bringing in scientific facts over a vitards opinion....you crazy?
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Markee
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12/11/2019 11:54am
My only gripe with Fly is the way they ranked competitive helmets on the last page of their report. http://www.wpsstatic.com/miscimages/info/Formula-Benchmark-Data-Testing.pdf That being said, I need a...
My only gripe with Fly is the way they ranked competitive helmets on the last page of their report.

http://www.wpsstatic.com/miscimages/info/Formula-Benchmark-Data-Testing…

That being said, I need a new helmet in the spring and Fly is on the short list after wearing Arai for the last 14 years.
I wear the formula and have sold a few just letting guys check the lid out at the track. The weight difference is the first thing people notice.

I think on the white and black formula, tone down the logos on every corner of the helmet so people would be more likely to mix gear companies products.

Going in the direction of FORMULA being more the brand focus than "fly" might be a good move just for that reason. Formula Protection by fly for all top of the line protection products.
1
Jt$
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12/11/2019 12:11pm
Markee wrote:
I wear the formula and have sold a few just letting guys check the lid out at the track. The weight difference is the first thing...
I wear the formula and have sold a few just letting guys check the lid out at the track. The weight difference is the first thing people notice.

I think on the white and black formula, tone down the logos on every corner of the helmet so people would be more likely to mix gear companies products.

Going in the direction of FORMULA being more the brand focus than "fly" might be a good move just for that reason. Formula Protection by fly for all top of the line protection products.
If you only knew the ongoing internal battles about those logos haha
4
dpingree101
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12/11/2019 12:11pm
Lots of bullshit and marketing in this space, which is scary. TLD just spent another 30k buying Every helmet on the market to be tested by a third party testing company in LA. I’m doing my best to get these results posted. The last test showed the SE4, Bell Flex 9 and Fox’s high end helmet as the best three and very close in numbers. The stunning part, for me, was some of the “premium” brands who scored very low.
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