Twisted Development, $7000-dollar question, can you afford it??

SDTony YZ ESR 325
Edited Date/Time 12/4/2019 5:34pm
What is the $7,000 Question?

80% of the MX Riders, either for fun or Racing today, are waisting there Money!

https://motocrossactionmag.com/two-vs-four-shootout-yz250-two-stroke-vs…
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Do_Work
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Do_Work 12/2/2019 6:22pm
12/2/2019 6:22pm
*wasting
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DynoDan22
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DynoDan22 12/2/2019 6:55pm
12/2/2019 6:55pm
Homonyms hurt...right that down.
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The Shop

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SDTony YZ ESR 325 12/2/2019 7:06pm
12/2/2019 7:06pm
eric513anderson wrote:
Shoot, I’ve wasted a lot of money... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/12/02/388231/s1200_72614535_71D6_44B6_8678_5B253D48F320.jpg[/img]
Shoot, I’ve wasted a lot of money...
Very Cool!
If you have it and want to spend it no worries! But for the guys who cannot afford both or 1 expensive 4-T, the Fun can be had with the YZ 250, right?
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SDTony YZ ESR 325 12/2/2019 7:14pm
12/2/2019 7:14pm
If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.
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500guy
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500guy 12/2/2019 7:21pm
12/2/2019 7:21pm
SDTony YZ ESR 325 wrote:
If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have...
If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.
Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.
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GODZILLA
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GODZILLA 12/2/2019 8:17pm
12/2/2019 8:17pm
The ballbreaker is back!!!
Whistling
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motoGleamer
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motoGleamer 12/2/2019 8:55pm
12/2/2019 8:55pm
I have a yz450f and yz250 and they are both great fun to ride. The 4 stroke engine though is a superior technology, especially when you throw in fuel injection and electric start. I do prefer the weight of the 250 and do enjoy the punch of the 2 stroke but the 450 is much easier to ride consistently.

I can see the point though that you dont need to spend the money for a 4 stroke to have a fun dirt bike. If I were ever to downsize to one bike I would be fine keeping just the 250. The current generation of 450s though are incredible machines and I dont think it is a waste of money to spend more vs the 2stroke.
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Zacka 161
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Zacka 161 12/2/2019 9:04pm
12/2/2019 9:04pm
People like the punchy Braap Braap power of a two stroke and the linearity of a 4 stroke.

What I find interesting is when engine builders try and push them closer to a each other.

Make a 4 stroke a torque low revving monster with no overrev and difficulty keeping traction and people instantly want to smooth the power out or make it rev linearly to the moon.

Make a 2 stroke linear like a KTM 300 exc and people want to push it back towards the 2 stroke style of power. TPI smooths out the power but nobody wants that.

It's really strange how different that is.

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Alex.434
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Alex.434 12/2/2019 10:16pm
12/2/2019 10:16pm
Good read. Rather they compared a KTM or Husqvarna 250 two stroke vs 250 four stroke though, as the 'antiquated YZ250 frame/ergos/handling' references wore thin.
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tcallahan707
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tcallahan707 12/2/2019 10:23pm
12/2/2019 10:23pm
SDTony YZ ESR 325 wrote:
If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have...
If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.
500guy wrote:
Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when...
Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.
And when you take off your spectator hat and throw on your helmet, that doesn't really ease the pain.

We are a participatory sport, not a spectator sport.
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Kyle978
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Kyle978 12/2/2019 10:24pm
12/2/2019 10:24pm Edited Date/Time 12/2/2019 10:30pm
I can’t believe companies like Twisted and Enzo still waste their time doing stuff for MXA’s pointless tests.

I also can’t believe people like our boy SDTony take the time to market a product that he supposedly doesn’t make any money from. I can’t believe he’s not the super hero Eddie Sanders himself.

All of these things are puzzling.
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 12/2/2019 10:30pm
12/2/2019 10:30pm
This test was so close to being worth while but they totally blew it.

They spent how many 1000s getting the 250f to 49hp, dual injectors throttle body, ecu, cams, etc etc etc

And with the 2 stroke they didnt even scratch the surface.

Everyone knows the 4 strokes more broad, more linear, more tractable...so 49hp vs 49hp isnt a fair fight. The 2 stroke needed to be tuned to mid 50s+ to atleast fight against the f's power delivery advantage. Which still could have been done for far less than the f's build cost.
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tek14
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tek14 12/3/2019 1:06am
12/3/2019 1:06am
Kyle978 wrote:
I can’t believe companies like Twisted and Enzo still waste their time doing stuff for MXA’s pointless tests. I also can’t believe people like our boy...
I can’t believe companies like Twisted and Enzo still waste their time doing stuff for MXA’s pointless tests.

I also can’t believe people like our boy SDTony take the time to market a product that he supposedly doesn’t make any money from. I can’t believe he’s not the super hero Eddie Sanders himself.

All of these things are puzzling.
That test was done decade ago.
metal_miracle 12/3/2019 2:20am
12/3/2019 2:20am
49hp on a yz250 sounded like a mild tuning.
If your doing a financial cost shootout i get why, but not as competitive weapon shootout
Jeff_Crutcher 12/3/2019 3:01am
12/3/2019 3:01am
500guy wrote:
Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when...
Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.
I had that hat sewn to my scalp.
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crowe176
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crowe176 12/3/2019 3:11am
12/3/2019 3:11am
Not this shit again...
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CPR
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CPR 12/3/2019 3:25am
12/3/2019 3:25am
SDTony YZ ESR 325 wrote:
If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have...
If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.
500guy wrote:
Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when...
Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.
And yet with no hat on you could argue that 2 strokes were less forgiving and 4 strokes have evened out skill levels.
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Zacka 161
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Zacka 161 12/3/2019 4:52am
12/3/2019 4:52am
SDTony YZ ESR 325 wrote:
If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have...
If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.
500guy wrote:
Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when...
Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.
CPR wrote:
And yet with no hat on you could argue that 2 strokes were less forgiving and 4 strokes have evened out skill levels.
That is an excellent point.
mark_swart
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mark_swart 12/3/2019 5:13am
12/3/2019 5:13am
To be totally fair, 50% of riders are probably wasting their money trying to get more power out of either of those bikes.

I love two strokes as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see the lap comparisons and the consistency of the 250F versus the two stroke. I think a 49 HP 250F sounds like the perfect motorcycle.
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mx317
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mx317 12/3/2019 5:21am
12/3/2019 5:21am
Kyle978 wrote:
I can’t believe companies like Twisted and Enzo still waste their time doing stuff for MXA’s pointless tests. I also can’t believe people like our boy...
I can’t believe companies like Twisted and Enzo still waste their time doing stuff for MXA’s pointless tests.

I also can’t believe people like our boy SDTony take the time to market a product that he supposedly doesn’t make any money from. I can’t believe he’s not the super hero Eddie Sanders himself.

All of these things are puzzling.
Twisted and Enzo know more than you.
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AH387
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AH387 12/3/2019 5:30am
12/3/2019 5:30am
mark_swart wrote:
To be totally fair, 50% of riders are probably wasting their money trying to get more power out of either of those bikes. I love two...
To be totally fair, 50% of riders are probably wasting their money trying to get more power out of either of those bikes.

I love two strokes as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see the lap comparisons and the consistency of the 250F versus the two stroke. I think a 49 HP 250F sounds like the perfect motorcycle.
I would suggest a 350 then. Modded 250Fs are cool but with that comes more money and maintenance. I've been down that road and it's not worth it for me anymore.
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mark_swart
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mark_swart 12/3/2019 6:06am
12/3/2019 6:06am
mark_swart wrote:
To be totally fair, 50% of riders are probably wasting their money trying to get more power out of either of those bikes. I love two...
To be totally fair, 50% of riders are probably wasting their money trying to get more power out of either of those bikes.

I love two strokes as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see the lap comparisons and the consistency of the 250F versus the two stroke. I think a 49 HP 250F sounds like the perfect motorcycle.
AH387 wrote:
I would suggest a 350 then. Modded 250Fs are cool but with that comes more money and maintenance. I've been down that road and it's not...
I would suggest a 350 then. Modded 250Fs are cool but with that comes more money and maintenance. I've been down that road and it's not worth it for me anymore.
Haha yes I would love one - but I want it in red or blue haha!! I'm on a 250F now and definitely agree with the mods and reliability, mine is pretty much stock.
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AH387
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AH387 12/3/2019 6:13am
12/3/2019 6:13am
mark_swart wrote:
Haha yes I would love one - but I want it in red or blue haha!! I'm on a 250F now and definitely agree with the...
Haha yes I would love one - but I want it in red or blue haha!! I'm on a 250F now and definitely agree with the mods and reliability, mine is pretty much stock.
Lol I hear you.
Tumblin
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Tumblin 12/3/2019 6:18am
12/3/2019 6:18am
Excellent read MXA...
"This shootout is not a tie; it’s just not cut-and-dry. If every motocross racer had a 250 two-stroke option that was status-backed, not sneered at, our sport would be healthier. More people could afford to ride, and those who are riding now could afford to fix an engine failure for one-quarter the cost of fixing a money-sucking four-banger. But, you can’t take status, image and self-worth out of the racing formula. Thus, the 250 four-stroke is the perfect machine for riders who are less willing to risk their ego on an unpopular choice. The tie can’t be broken by the MXA wrecking crew—only by the face in the mirror, money in the bank and need for acceptance."
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 12/3/2019 6:47am
12/3/2019 6:47am
I finally got on a 4 stroke in 05 and have only had to do valves once since then. Never replaced a cam or cylinder. I'm also a 200 lb expert so I'm not easy on equipment. I know people have random engine failures (mostly KTM from what I've seen), but how many of you that know how to maintain your 4 stroke actually have to do these costly rebuilds that I'm always reading about?
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OneWordResponseGuy 12/3/2019 7:55am
12/3/2019 7:55am
eric513anderson wrote:
Shoot, I’ve wasted a lot of money... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/12/02/388231/s1200_72614535_71D6_44B6_8678_5B253D48F320.jpg[/img]
Shoot, I’ve wasted a lot of money...
hey eric, what clamps are on that yz250? how do you like them?
Talisker
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Talisker 12/3/2019 8:54am
12/3/2019 8:54am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2019 9:05am
..... Modern four strokes are way more reliable than 2 strokes ever were.
.... Since Yamaha has the best bikes right out of the crate..... this should have been a stock vs stock comparison. Sometimes modifying your bike messes up the easy to use characteristics, and jetting can become a daily nightmare(2t jetting only). I have had a subscription to MXA for 30 years and realized that they should have been called PMXA (Pro Motocross Action). Most of the bike builds are unrealistic to the average and way above average consumer.
Look at the stock class a Loretta’s this year. The last place slow as shit Suzuk RMZ250 took the checkers. Damn!!!
Micahdogg
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Micahdogg 12/3/2019 9:18am
12/3/2019 9:18am
I recently restored a 1992 YZ250 and a 2002 YZ250F. Both were in very similar condition - basically total roach jobs with each bike coming with a new cylinder. I paid more for the 92 and ended up with considerably less invested. Each bike needed split cranks, rods, suspension rebuilds, etc... Thumpers just cost more to maintain and repair and nobody would choose to incur the extra costs if it wasn't ruled to have an advantage. That rule could change and cause a mass exodus overnight back to two strokes.





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