Japanese 350s

user760a wrote:

you are probably right Re: the brilliant thinkers at Japan Inc. They seem to be more interested in playing follow the leader with Honda than actually...

you are probably right Re: the brilliant thinkers at Japan Inc. They seem to be more interested in playing follow the leader with Honda than actually selling bikes.

why should they sell a 350? simply because people want them and they would sell very well are apparently not good reasons, that is just not practical LOL

Dear Japanese: Good job on propping KTM and Husky up,

History is sure to prove you correct on the 350 fad! after all, everyone knows that the most successful entrepreneurs offer the fewest possible choices to their customers, right? Isnt that why Ford sells just theModel T, coca-cola never tried to market anything but classic coke and all successful ice cream stands sell vanilla only? it would be silly to compete with your existing offering JUST because people want variety.screw them

kiwifan wrote:

Other Japanese manufacturers are following Honda? Are you sure about that, Yamaha certainly isnt, Suzuki clearly isnt...oh I see you are blaming Honda for there not...

Other Japanese manufacturers are following Honda? Are you sure about that, Yamaha certainly isnt, Suzuki clearly isnt...oh I see you are blaming Honda for there not being a 350 from any manufacturer...I see now.

News flash: They all have a choice, clearly no one sees the economics in doing so, I guess they know how to run a business and that means no 350.

user760a wrote:

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market...

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market. 300 two stroke? no market for that, either. stupid austrians , obviously not up on economics

kiwifan wrote:

Other Japanese manufacturers are following Honda? Are you sure about that, Yamaha certainly isnt, Suzuki clearly isnt...oh I see you are blaming Honda for there not...

Other Japanese manufacturers are following Honda? Are you sure about that, Yamaha certainly isnt, Suzuki clearly isnt...oh I see you are blaming Honda for there not being a 350 from any manufacturer...I see now.

News flash: They all have a choice, clearly no one sees the economics in doing so, I guess they know how to run a business and that means no 350.

user760a wrote:

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market...

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market. 300 two stroke? no market for that, either. stupid austrians , obviously not up on economics

kiwifan wrote:

I was not implying at all that KTM or Husky are stupid, so guess what happens if the Japanese were to build them ( and lets...

I was not implying at all that KTM or Husky are stupid, so guess what happens if the Japanese were to build them ( and lets face it, like it or not the 350 market is smaller than the 250 and 450 market)...

- R&D costs perhaps not as much as a brand new bike, they could use the 250 as a base, but will still need R&D (including suspension settings, endurance testing, design, etc etc)
- Production lines - most Japanese production lines are pretty big now and have set timeframes for each market segment (dirt bikes have their own slot), so they may simply not have enough free production line slots to build them
- Potential sales, lets face it because the sales for 350's are already not massive then would they get return on money for their investment in the R&D, Production costs, etc?

Then think what the impact might be to KTM/Husky, taking sales from them, that COULD result in them stop producing the bikes themselves.

So lets think more logically about the situation, instead of misguided passion and anti-Japanese sensationalism

kiwifan wrote:

Other Japanese manufacturers are following Honda? Are you sure about that, Yamaha certainly isnt, Suzuki clearly isnt...oh I see you are blaming Honda for there not...

Other Japanese manufacturers are following Honda? Are you sure about that, Yamaha certainly isnt, Suzuki clearly isnt...oh I see you are blaming Honda for there not being a 350 from any manufacturer...I see now.

News flash: They all have a choice, clearly no one sees the economics in doing so, I guess they know how to run a business and that means no 350.

user760a wrote:

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market...

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market. 300 two stroke? no market for that, either. stupid austrians , obviously not up on economics

kiwifan wrote:

I was not implying at all that KTM or Husky are stupid, so guess what happens if the Japanese were to build them ( and lets...

I was not implying at all that KTM or Husky are stupid, so guess what happens if the Japanese were to build them ( and lets face it, like it or not the 350 market is smaller than the 250 and 450 market)...

- R&D costs perhaps not as much as a brand new bike, they could use the 250 as a base, but will still need R&D (including suspension settings, endurance testing, design, etc etc)
- Production lines - most Japanese production lines are pretty big now and have set timeframes for each market segment (dirt bikes have their own slot), so they may simply not have enough free production line slots to build them
- Potential sales, lets face it because the sales for 350's are already not massive then would they get return on money for their investment in the R&D, Production costs, etc?

Then think what the impact might be to KTM/Husky, taking sales from them, that COULD result in them stop producing the bikes themselves.

So lets think more logically about the situation, instead of misguided passion and anti-Japanese sensationalism

Panic_Rev wrote:

If Yamaha made a 350 (I wish they would!) how much market share would they gain? Sure they would sell out, but some of those buyers...

If Yamaha made a 350 (I wish they would!) how much market share would they gain? Sure they would sell out, but some of those buyers would already be Yamaha 250/450 owners. I own a pumpkin only because of the 350, so I would be one that would change. Those Japs have done the math and a few % of market share doesn't outweigh the millions in in R&D.

These are facts not opinions.

fatpurplepanda wrote:

I tune my 19 KX450 down a bit to make it a little more rideable since apparently my throttle hand only knows wide open or off...

I tune my 19 KX450 down a bit to make it a little more rideable since apparently my throttle hand only knows wide open or off. Throw the soft (black) coupler on with a 48 tooth rear and its amazing.

soggy wrote:

nope they just build UTV's instead.

fatpurplepanda wrote:

I tune my 19 KX450 down a bit to make it a little more rideable since apparently my throttle hand only knows wide open or off...

I tune my 19 KX450 down a bit to make it a little more rideable since apparently my throttle hand only knows wide open or off. Throw the soft (black) coupler on with a 48 tooth rear and its amazing.

Panic_Rev wrote:

I would be interested in this if I went to a 450. My gut tells me the inertia of the motor would still make it feel...

I would be interested in this if I went to a 450. My gut tells me the inertia of the motor would still make it feel heavier than a 350. Thoughts?

Panic_Rev wrote:

If Yamaha made a 350 (I wish they would!) how much market share would they gain? Sure they would sell out, but some of those buyers...

If Yamaha made a 350 (I wish they would!) how much market share would they gain? Sure they would sell out, but some of those buyers would already be Yamaha 250/450 owners. I own a pumpkin only because of the 350, so I would be one that would change. Those Japs have done the math and a few % of market share doesn't outweigh the millions in in R&D.

These are facts not opinions.

kiwifan wrote:

Other Japanese manufacturers are following Honda? Are you sure about that, Yamaha certainly isnt, Suzuki clearly isnt...oh I see you are blaming Honda for there not...

Other Japanese manufacturers are following Honda? Are you sure about that, Yamaha certainly isnt, Suzuki clearly isnt...oh I see you are blaming Honda for there not being a 350 from any manufacturer...I see now.

News flash: They all have a choice, clearly no one sees the economics in doing so, I guess they know how to run a business and that means no 350.

user760a wrote:

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market...

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market. 300 two stroke? no market for that, either. stupid austrians , obviously not up on economics

kiwifan wrote:

I was not implying at all that KTM or Husky are stupid, so guess what happens if the Japanese were to build them ( and lets...

I was not implying at all that KTM or Husky are stupid, so guess what happens if the Japanese were to build them ( and lets face it, like it or not the 350 market is smaller than the 250 and 450 market)...

- R&D costs perhaps not as much as a brand new bike, they could use the 250 as a base, but will still need R&D (including suspension settings, endurance testing, design, etc etc)
- Production lines - most Japanese production lines are pretty big now and have set timeframes for each market segment (dirt bikes have their own slot), so they may simply not have enough free production line slots to build them
- Potential sales, lets face it because the sales for 350's are already not massive then would they get return on money for their investment in the R&D, Production costs, etc?

Then think what the impact might be to KTM/Husky, taking sales from them, that COULD result in them stop producing the bikes themselves.

So lets think more logically about the situation, instead of misguided passion and anti-Japanese sensationalism

TSCHAM101 wrote:

id buy a blue 350... or a green 350 if they were made..

fatpurplepanda wrote:

I tune my 19 KX450 down a bit to make it a little more rideable since apparently my throttle hand only knows wide open or off...

I tune my 19 KX450 down a bit to make it a little more rideable since apparently my throttle hand only knows wide open or off. Throw the soft (black) coupler on with a 48 tooth rear and its amazing.

Panic_Rev wrote:

I would be interested in this if I went to a 450. My gut tells me the inertia of the motor would still make it feel...

I would be interested in this if I went to a 450. My gut tells me the inertia of the motor would still make it feel heavier than a 350. Thoughts?

nascarnate326 wrote:

Would a crf350 cannibalize the crf450? Seems like it would.

user760a wrote:

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market...

somebody needs to let the fools at KTM know before they throw it all away on these dead end bikes!! 350 pffft japan says no market. 300 two stroke? no market for that, either. stupid austrians , obviously not up on economics

kiwifan wrote:

I was not implying at all that KTM or Husky are stupid, so guess what happens if the Japanese were to build them ( and lets...

I was not implying at all that KTM or Husky are stupid, so guess what happens if the Japanese were to build them ( and lets face it, like it or not the 350 market is smaller than the 250 and 450 market)...

- R&D costs perhaps not as much as a brand new bike, they could use the 250 as a base, but will still need R&D (including suspension settings, endurance testing, design, etc etc)
- Production lines - most Japanese production lines are pretty big now and have set timeframes for each market segment (dirt bikes have their own slot), so they may simply not have enough free production line slots to build them
- Potential sales, lets face it because the sales for 350's are already not massive then would they get return on money for their investment in the R&D, Production costs, etc?

Then think what the impact might be to KTM/Husky, taking sales from them, that COULD result in them stop producing the bikes themselves.

So lets think more logically about the situation, instead of misguided passion and anti-Japanese sensationalism

user760a wrote:

anti japanese sensationalism? please. misguided passion? Apparently you have never been to an off road race where the majority of the bikes are KTM/Husky's with the...

anti japanese sensationalism? please.
misguided passion?

Apparently you have never been to an off road race where the majority of the bikes are KTM/Husky's with the 350 and 300 two stroke being far and away the most common bike seeen out of their respective lineups.

I would say that you really dont know much about that angle of the 350 issue- the GP/GNCC/off road angle. Otherwise you would feel silly for the stance you have taken on the 350.

A YZ350FX would sell in huge numbers in the off road racing world, as would a 300 two stroke with E-start

I mention a theoretical YZ350FX simply because Yamaha is still in the off road racing game. Lots of Yamahas at off road races. The other japanese manufacturers represent a small fraction of the bikes at off road events these days with almost no suzukis at all. A few Hondas fair number of kawasaki's. sorry for the anti japanese sensationalism, also known as realistic analysis.

if Suzuki really wanted to get back in the game, almost across the board, they would design a competitive 350 and 300 two stroke. They would sell like mad. Instead, they will continue to play follow the leader

Brent wrote:

Never. Somebody interviewed some Japanese engineer at Honda years ago about this subject, and he said something along the lines of it didn't make any financial...

Never.


Somebody interviewed some Japanese engineer at Honda years ago about this subject, and he said something along the lines of it didn't make any financial sense to develop an entirely new motor for something they would only sell a few thousand units of.

sparker245 wrote:

I've got a '19 KTM 350sxf with KYB inserts in the forks. What a great bike! But, if Yamaha made a 350 I'd have a blue...

I've got a '19 KTM 350sxf with KYB inserts in the forks. What a great bike! But, if Yamaha made a 350 I'd have a blue one in the garage ASAP.

TSCHAM101 wrote:

id buy a blue 350... or a green 350 if they were made..

tackomoto wrote:

Same. I absolutely do not want to buy another KTM as I hate them, but they are the only manufacturer to make a 350.

TJMX947 wrote:

In the mid 2000s I always wanted a RPM Ice Cube to build my 250F into a 315. I never jived with 450s, and even at...

In the mid 2000s I always wanted a RPM Ice Cube to build my 250F into a 315. I never jived with 450s, and even at 220lbs I was riding a 250F. Now I have a 350 and without a doubt its a great engine. Your average vet rider is buying new bikes and the 350 is a great Vet bike, but I'm no marketing wiz. I'm sure the Japanese manufacturers are doing the right thing to keep themselves afloat.

FARANG wrote:

I'd love a Japanese 350. But I'd like to see them make it like a mini 450 with all the power down low (kind of like...

I'd love a Japanese 350. But I'd like to see them make it like a mini 450 with all the power down low (kind of like the 2018 YZF250), as opposed to the Austrian 350's which are more like big 250's and have most of the power up top.

I think that would sell well as it would be different enough from the Austrian bikes, plus it would have the Japanese name and image of reliability for people who are still concerned about KTM/Husky Euroness or reliability.

A super torquey YZF350 would be awesome. Can't imagine it would be that difficult either.

bvm111 wrote:

You guys do realize all the big four have marketing divisions that are probably more adept at figuring out if the 350 would be more popular...

You guys do realize all the big four have marketing divisions that are probably more adept at figuring out if the 350 would be more popular than a 450! Have you ever thought that maybe KTM and HUS sell theirs because there is no other competition, what would happen if the market was diluted with other brands? More people on different 350s or 350s siting on the show room floor getting discounted? I don’t know the answer here, just pontificating, but I would assume Honda and Yamaha have it figured out and offering to the market what they feel will sell.

I have both a 250 2 stroke and I am selling my KX450 so I can get a new 450. Funny thing happened since I’ve been riding the KX250 I’m riding better and more aggressive on the 250 and ... having more fun! I am also now second guessing getting a new 450 and may end up with a FC350!

I guess the bottom line is ride what you want and just have fun... they are just dirt bikes after all!