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held off on posting it yesterday as figured let the news get something up first. feel horrible for the family.
What said above, highly doubt anything will change. This has been going on for years, at local and big races. We get the same post, people offer their condolences and then next week things go on like nothing happened. Hope I'm wrong and something comes out of it (what, I have no idea) but have my doubts.
How many of these stories do we need to read before we do something. We need to slow things down and reduce the traffic. 20, 30+ motos on a dirt track in a single day with 40 riders on the gate to me is just lunacy with the kind of horsepower and suspension we have on today's motorcycles. A group of 450s can absolutely shred a track in short order. Track grooming takes a back seat so we can fit in all the motos for the day. Limit the motos that can be run in a day, limit the gate size and start to drive lower displacement racing. If the market demands it, the manufacturers will follow. We also need to see improved safety equipment, mandatory chest protection with minimum safety standards (not just a plastic roost guard). We can never eliminate the risk but we have a responsibility to do a better job managing it......RIP little man, my heart is heavy.
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I do know that track owners get sick and tired of grooming the track. Think about doing that several days a week for years. Maybe that's what started the whole "the track on race day is the track."
But man, what Meister said, and then Derek...sheesh...makes me sick and sad.
A rough track is going to fatigue a rider quicker, but yet still trying to push the pace, a rough track leads to more mistakes. and a rough track is more unpredictable. how many serious crashes do you see in the opening practices vs late in the day. A smoother track is way safer.
not to mention we want to compare to Pro racing that runs, 4 motos with 40 riders compared to a local race thats having God knows how many classes and riders. Yes the Pros will tear it up more, but they all are at a pro skill, where a local race your having varying skills. In a track that is still very rough.
I hope the family can get through it. I know for one that would be the toughest thing to deal with ever. We all love riding and know the risks.
Sometimes this sport really sucks!
The tougher and rougher the larger the separation from talented to less talented becomes
We see this year in and year out at all manners of tracks and races
I've personally raced a host of tracks that by end of week/weekend are 10-15 seconds a lap slower than early on
And I personally feel they are far safer
What ISNT safe is jumps that get doable but really nasty and the pressure these kids are under to hit them for that advantage
What isn't safe is the speed we CAN go now days. I say it time and time again - bikes are faster than ever - to a level these "old timers" cant even appreciate
A modern 250f is 100 percent on par (actually faster) than a 250 two stroke (modern as well)
Vs a 1996 rm 250 - a modern 250f is FAR FASTER
Im building 36hp superminis now. That's 2.5 hp better than a stock yz125
Please tell me how that is even remotely safe????? The bike in a roll race - WHOOPS 250f's. due to it's weight
The supermini rule this year expanded form 112 to 113... i mean really??? who is driving that?
It should be 100cc max
85 should be 75
65 should be 60
250f should be the premier bike in amatuers and and 125 the race bike until pro class
Racing in the 125 schoolboy class is just as good and exciting (even more so) than the pro class at lorettas. The lap times are not that different either...but the ability for these young kids to save a crash on a lighter lower inertia bike is far higher
Not to mention the FAST FAST 125 kids are doing so because of corners - not the straights. A modern C class rider can hop on stock 250f and hit ANY jump on the track effortlessly these days
Its criminal to our youth
Lasly - tracks need to evaluate speeds and limit it via obstacles and turns. Loretta's is insanely rough and rutted - and insanely safe. On a 450 - it feels like mini bike track. You practically never open up the engine. It's a WELL designed race track
Contrast that to many tracks I ride were AVG speed for a pro might be 45 mph and some sections are 65-70
I don't care WHAT you wear - hitting the dirt past 20 mph really really hurts.
85s used to be 80s.
and there was the 105 class.
Most crashes happen when it is rougher. Not many swap out and endo on the fastest smooth portions.
I've never crashed or gotten hurt on smooth or massive sized jumps 120+. In fact I realized the safest place for me was in the air.
What if the bikes were slower, being slower means they wouldn't create the massive whooped out sections.. No massive whooped out section means an accident is less likely to happen. If an accident happens and it's not so rough, maybe riders behind the crash would be able to react a little differently.
Who knows. I miss the 125/250 days.
Still can't get some visions out of my head..
I know vets who have no business hitting the 120ft back triple at Milestone but they do, because they can be at a dead stop after the corner, and give a handful of throttle on there 450 and make the jump but sketchy as hell... endangering all of the people behind him...
The bikes are simply too fast.. a 40-48hp 250f is the max any amatuer should have.. it will have plenty of power, but still require a little technique to ride good.. and its easier to recover from mistakes...
Won't comment on the conditions without being there, we should listen to the words of those that were.
One thing is for sure - as a sport we need to do a better job of addressing these problems, before someone decides to force us to.
Hence why I question why we have them go the other way currently
It’s always bigger and faster
We need smaller and slower
Pit Row
I do not feel as if we are.
I feel as if we are actually trying to be proactive. This young man's life is gone. If any damn thing positive can come from it, I hope it does with other riders safety in mind.
What is it going to take to make changes? A few additional protective gear related items isn't going to cut it in my book.
Eli's life? Roczen's? A professional in the spot light? A buddy and I have already had this conversation. I'm not sure what it will take.
Hell, I wish vet classes weren't Open classes. I only hate 250f's because there's no way I could keep up with a 450 on one. It would be so awesome if every vet class went to small bore 2 stroke as a maximum.
No 16 year old needs to be on a 450, I know your kid can handle it, your kid might be 6', still not needed. 125s and 250 four strokes are plenty for am classes. Like said above, the sport needs to do something before someone makes them do something. Would like to hear DC thoughts but know that won't happen, most likely due to liability reasons.
In pros, the should be 250 mods (Eli, Kenny and the crew) and 250 stock for the intro class (maybe suspension for safety?). 450s are way to much in the stadiums, I think it would give better racing and more the bikes would fit the confines of the stadiums. Outdoors could be 250 mod and 350 for the pros, still going to be going way too fast but it would be a start.
Sorry for rambling, this is just so sad and i don't even know the kid. Knew he had to be from a family with moto history with his first name.
The AMA is completely useless in these matters. Someone please tell what they have done in the last 20 years to make MX/SX safer....
Windham and Canard tried but quickly dropped the issue of safety.
Rough tracks are only safer when the track is slow, not when you’re going 3/4 gear pinned everywhere.
I haven’t stopped thinking about this since my buddy told me about it yesterday while we were riding. I can’t imagine as a dad myself losing a son to a sport that I nudged him into. Makes me second guess why my son and I ride.
I’m truly sorry that the family is going through this tragedy.
As for Baja Acres I love the facility and it is what I consider my "home track" due to its proximity to the border and the amount of laps i have spun there. Over the years ownership has taken the majority of the slow speed sections out, and added numerous big jumps. Combine that with them not maintaining it though the day as much as they used too and that is a recipe for this disaster. They need to bring back some of the technical elements that kept the speeds down, and get rid of some of the massive jumps they added. The terrain alone makes for a tough track..
Here’s a thought, Maybe it wasn’t the tracks fault? MaybeIt wasn’t the bikes fault? Maybe it wasn’t even his fault? It sounds like he went down and got hit by other riders. A very, very possible outcome every time we all throw our leg over the bike in a race or busy track. Rough or smooth, fast or slow.
I feel so very bad for his family and friends and I only hope they find some comfort knowing he passed doing something he loved.
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/RIP-Zach-Holloway,129357…
Saturday run minis, C and vets. This way if junior and dad both race they can race on the same day.
Sunday run the A, B and pro class if there is one. This way the track shouldn’t get as rough as there will be less bikes. The day will be shorter for everyone and hopefully less injuries. The weekend warriors should like it, I would.
It may be a little tougher on the track owner but most tracks in New England are open both days anyway, split them up. With 20+ classes some days it’s way too much for one day anyway.
This shit needs discussed whether you like it or not. Sorry if its not posted right where you want it to be.
I can't get it out of my head. You sound as if you have a factual understanding of that as well. I just want the avoidable to be avoided.
Someone mentioned that maybe it wasn't any of the things we've discussed. Like I also mentioned, we don't know the ultimate plan, so maybe you're right. However, being at the track, racing a couple motos prior, I believe the things we've touched on validate that we (specially all who were there) wish it could have been avoided if at all possible. Once again, no fault to the facility and owners as it's purely a risk we all agree to, but that's no reason to sit back and not say anything about the future of safety in the sport we all love and live.
My only prayer on the line is "lord please keep me safe, that's all that I ask". I had my wife and 4 year old daughter come to the actual starting gate with me for my second moto (I may have been breaking rules), and I let my 4 year old "pack my gate". It just kept (and keeps) circulating in my head.
Ohio has a "Battle format". 50s and quads Saturday, 65cc+ on Sunday. So that's close to what your saying.
Condolences to the family and friends. RIP young man
Post a reply to: Bad news out of Baja Acres.