PW 50 suspension upgrade?

4/24/2019 7:57am
Question wrote:
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one ;) Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting...
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one Wink

Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting to ride. With this geometry, you can go quite fast without being scared, if it is not too bumpy. It is not a bike for mx jumps too, maximum for small table tops. I would have a kid who wants to race, or in his 2nd year on that bike, and the time i think i would do a winter project, to try replace the front and the rear of the bike to update it with disks and upside down fork.

Long story short, I have some of my best memories on pw 80, as a kid of course but later on, when i was 16-17 ;

A supermoto rider in my region opened an indoor go kart ... without go karts, but many pw 80s, and plastic knee braces Wink Lots of evenings and week ends there were quite a few fast regional mx guys (i.e. 1 who became national champ in amateur or who raced at the sx of stade de france) coming in and we were just riding it at 105%, bar banging and putting the knee everywhere and even more trying not to crash in the big 200L plastic barrells around the track. Based on the fact that we never broke one in months of abuse is really a proof of "bullet proof". And I still have my plastic trophy for 1st place of our 3 hours race Wink
I actually owned a pw 80 about 12 or so years ago, It was used as a pit bike. I think it's a great bike but all we ride is mx tracks and we have no place to ride around the house so I was looking to update the pw 50 suspension until he can fit a 65. But overall I agree the pw 80 is a great bike.
4/24/2019 8:03am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2019 8:09am
kage173 wrote:
Like you I'm very cost conscious and always looking for ideas. My thought on the minibikes is that I buy them used, then sell them 2...
Like you I'm very cost conscious and always looking for ideas.

My thought on the minibikes is that I buy them used, then sell them 2 years later. From buying it let's say $750 to $1,500 off as a 3-4 year old then selling for another $750 or $1,000 less, I'm really only paying a fee to use it for 2 years.

I don't really care about having the fastest bike or the latest stuff because my son's skill level is constantly developing so it's way more about his technique and confidence than some engineering on the bike.

I think you're fine on your strategy; just explaining how I look at the cost.
I tend to purchase my bikes new because of some of the things I've witnessed from other folks and their bike care. I do however keep my bikes for a while so the cost's (in my mind) even out in time. My current bike is a 2015 yz250f and prior to that was a 2011 ktm350sxf. I usually try to get quite a few years out of my bike.
4/24/2019 8:07am
Smith922 wrote:
If you are set on keeping the PW50 check out barrs competition they have a killer setup for the PW 50 motors and definitely suspension.
I called Barr's but Rodney Barr was out of town so I will be contacting them later to see what they offer. Thanks
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4/24/2019 1:38pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2019 2:54pm
Question wrote:
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one ;) Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting...
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one Wink

Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting to ride. With this geometry, you can go quite fast without being scared, if it is not too bumpy. It is not a bike for mx jumps too, maximum for small table tops. I would have a kid who wants to race, or in his 2nd year on that bike, and the time i think i would do a winter project, to try replace the front and the rear of the bike to update it with disks and upside down fork.

Long story short, I have some of my best memories on pw 80, as a kid of course but later on, when i was 16-17 ;

A supermoto rider in my region opened an indoor go kart ... without go karts, but many pw 80s, and plastic knee braces Wink Lots of evenings and week ends there were quite a few fast regional mx guys (i.e. 1 who became national champ in amateur or who raced at the sx of stade de france) coming in and we were just riding it at 105%, bar banging and putting the knee everywhere and even more trying not to crash in the big 200L plastic barrells around the track. Based on the fact that we never broke one in months of abuse is really a proof of "bullet proof". And I still have my plastic trophy for 1st place of our 3 hours race Wink
peltier626 wrote:
I actually owned a pw 80 about 12 or so years ago, It was used as a pit bike. I think it's a great bike but...
I actually owned a pw 80 about 12 or so years ago, It was used as a pit bike. I think it's a great bike but all we ride is mx tracks and we have no place to ride around the house so I was looking to update the pw 50 suspension until he can fit a 65. But overall I agree the pw 80 is a great bike.
You are right to look at improving the 50's suspensions because there are ultra limited, and I really like the kits to make it taller, anything helps. By the way, on an old picture of Mickael Pichon, his pw50 had really nice upgrades, maybe that will give you some ideas Wink



Back to the pw80, actually it can go around a mx track, but not any. Any huge elevation changes, no, any deep sand track, no, any sx like track, no, any tacky mud track, no ; but a reasonable one, not too bumpy or not too gnarly, ideally one that is groomed a few times per year, it can go for sure.

It really depends, if he goes with the pw50 on the track then the 80 will be better everywhere, probably 10 to 30 seconds a lap faster after a few afternoons. A 50 or 65 is not perfect either.

In a sense, the 80pw is like a 125, which is/was the good temporary link between the supermini (50pw) and the 250 4 stroke (Cobra/50/65ktm/Husky).


Good luck !

EDIT: while showing Pichon's great smile to my girlfriend, it reminded me that I actually visited the truck on the picture in Ardeche in the summer of 92, with the next owner who had a kx60 (and me a 80cr). Funny times.
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The Shop

CivBars
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4/25/2019 11:05pm
Question wrote:
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one ;) Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting...
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one Wink

Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting to ride. With this geometry, you can go quite fast without being scared, if it is not too bumpy. It is not a bike for mx jumps too, maximum for small table tops. I would have a kid who wants to race, or in his 2nd year on that bike, and the time i think i would do a winter project, to try replace the front and the rear of the bike to update it with disks and upside down fork.

Long story short, I have some of my best memories on pw 80, as a kid of course but later on, when i was 16-17 ;

A supermoto rider in my region opened an indoor go kart ... without go karts, but many pw 80s, and plastic knee braces Wink Lots of evenings and week ends there were quite a few fast regional mx guys (i.e. 1 who became national champ in amateur or who raced at the sx of stade de france) coming in and we were just riding it at 105%, bar banging and putting the knee everywhere and even more trying not to crash in the big 200L plastic barrells around the track. Based on the fact that we never broke one in months of abuse is really a proof of "bullet proof". And I still have my plastic trophy for 1st place of our 3 hours race Wink
kage173 wrote:
Sounds like a blast!
Just came across this!

https://youtu.be/Qg1aLaz56ms
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4/26/2019 2:26am Edited Date/Time 4/26/2019 2:31am
Question wrote:
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one ;) Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting...
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one Wink

Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting to ride. With this geometry, you can go quite fast without being scared, if it is not too bumpy. It is not a bike for mx jumps too, maximum for small table tops. I would have a kid who wants to race, or in his 2nd year on that bike, and the time i think i would do a winter project, to try replace the front and the rear of the bike to update it with disks and upside down fork.

Long story short, I have some of my best memories on pw 80, as a kid of course but later on, when i was 16-17 ;

A supermoto rider in my region opened an indoor go kart ... without go karts, but many pw 80s, and plastic knee braces Wink Lots of evenings and week ends there were quite a few fast regional mx guys (i.e. 1 who became national champ in amateur or who raced at the sx of stade de france) coming in and we were just riding it at 105%, bar banging and putting the knee everywhere and even more trying not to crash in the big 200L plastic barrells around the track. Based on the fact that we never broke one in months of abuse is really a proof of "bullet proof". And I still have my plastic trophy for 1st place of our 3 hours race Wink
kage173 wrote:
Sounds like a blast!
CivBars wrote:
Just came across this!

https://youtu.be/Qg1aLaz56ms
Great vid'. Exactly how it can be done especially on the track slippery surface, it makes it super fun. The bikes look great too.

Add old or cheap plastic knee braces and it will help to pass the mental limit we all have, I learnt the motogp style there ; and the craziest part is sometimes, while crashing losing a bit too much the front, until putting the elbow and shoulder so you are pretty flat lol, you can still sometimes lift back the bike by muscling it to make an impulsion and charging the opposite peg, and you can lift it up to continue lol. Other riders are also a great help to make the turns lol Wink

I think every go kart tracks should have these types of bikes, it is economical, super fun, not dangerous for the general public, and that would actually grow the number of people trying mx afterwards, especially if all the tracks had a couple bikes to rent.

Back to the topic, the kids, these indoor tracks could be fantastic riding schools to learn how to slide: as proven by for instance RV, who was by far the best at exiting corners, as well as Febvre, who improved a lot his mx result after learning supermoto.
4/26/2019 3:19am
psg119 wrote:
Yeah I saw slip has his 7 yr old on a PW80 and it looks like he's loving it. I'd rather wait and throw a shock...
Yeah I saw slip has his 7 yr old on a PW80 and it looks like he's loving it. I'd rather wait and throw a shock on that thing. haha.
Question wrote:
The best is really to bring these minis to specifically built tracks (next to the mx track if long & technical enough or ... in gardens)...
The best is really to bring these minis to specifically built tracks (next to the mx track if long & technical enough or ... in gardens). Bumps, jumps, ruts, rocks and riders around on a normal mx track are not really for 3 to 7-8 years old riders anyway. Then they can get a better bike when they are around 7-8 (after riding already 4 years), fast enough to be in the "track flow" with big bikes and when they can jump 40-60ft table tops. Meanwhile from 3 to 7 it is also possible to get them on bmx to learn the best technique to jump or to soak them.
My boy has adapted the BMX jump technique to his moto naturally without any input from me.
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slipdog
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4/26/2019 5:53am
I just picked up my 2nd PW80 last weekend so both my kids have one and they love them compared to the winter project I wasted my time and money on.

They don't care for this


But they can't get enough of these.

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KCMX
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4/26/2019 6:14am
Slipdog, what forks/swinger are on the XR? Stock frame? Badass!
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4/26/2019 6:59am
slipdog
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4/26/2019 7:04am
KCMX wrote:
Slipdog, what forks/swinger are on the XR? Stock frame? Badass!
That's the Piranha kit that runs $850 for the wheels, brakes, clamps, swingarm, shock and forks. I made custom springs for 50lb riders and it took a lot of fab because its Chinese and nothing lined up quite right. Especially the rear wheel.
1
4/26/2019 7:19am
KCMX wrote:
Slipdog, what forks/swinger are on the XR? Stock frame? Badass!
slipdog wrote:
That's the Piranha kit that runs $850 for the wheels, brakes, clamps, swingarm, shock and forks. I made custom springs for 50lb riders and it took...
That's the Piranha kit that runs $850 for the wheels, brakes, clamps, swingarm, shock and forks. I made custom springs for 50lb riders and it took a lot of fab because its Chinese and nothing lined up quite right. Especially the rear wheel.
I thought about going down that sort of route with my boys old 88 kitted CRF, checked out Chinese 110's etc, Suzuki JR80's CRF70's with a kit. Pretty happy with what I've gotten him although we can't ride across the road now so that's definite downside. No beer, laptop and vital for me as he reels off laps.
There is definitely a niche for a play bike that handles, goes decently, requires minimal maintenance and is reasonably quite. Sort of like a JR80 engine in an old KX60 chassis with front disc brake. And a good exhaust that can be changed for more performance/noise.
4/26/2019 7:21am
On second thought's, might try and pick up an old PW80 !
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brocster
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4/26/2019 7:27am Edited Date/Time 4/26/2019 7:37am
peltier626 wrote:
Thanks guys. Y'all are probably right. I'm hoping to skip the ktm/husky/cobra 50's and go straight to the 65's. That's why i am considering a suspension...
Thanks guys. Y'all are probably right. I'm hoping to skip the ktm/husky/cobra 50's and go straight to the 65's. That's why i am considering a suspension upgrade to the p dub. I'm hoping to prolong it's use until the lil one's big enough for a 65. Which will most likely be a lowered kx65, reclused and toned down (washered and flywheel weighted) until he can handle and learn the bike.
kage173 wrote:
Why do you want to go straight to the 65? Genuine question, not critical. When I was young, we didn't have the KTM 50s. I lost...
Why do you want to go straight to the 65? Genuine question, not critical. When I was young, we didn't have the KTM 50s. I lost interest right during the transition between 50 and 65 and didn't return til my 20s. The 65 was too much power at that time.

I see the KTM 50s as a blessing. My son is 6 on a PW and will move to KTM soon, so I'm interested in other people's opinions.
peltier626 wrote:
Maybe my thought process is a little skewed. I don"t want to spend $4299+ on a bike that will last a span of possibly two years...
Maybe my thought process is a little skewed. I don"t want to spend $4299+ on a bike that will last a span of possibly two years then on to a 65 anyways. The seat height on a ktm 50sx is 26 inches. The kx 65 retails for $3699 with a seat height of 29 inches and there are numerous options to achieve the same seat height of 26", lowering link, slid forks, shaved seat etc. There are plenty discussions on other forums on how to meter and smooth out the power with exhaust washers, flywheel weights slide block plus a recluse clutch, etc. I can get possibly 4-5 years from this bike with spending the same amount of money as the 50sx even after purchasing the mods, so for me it's all about economy. We don't race yet so i'm not concerned with classifications so it seems like the most cost effective option for us. But that's why i opened this topic so i can hear opinions, so keep um coming.
Jared, With Broc I did the same thing kage173 mentions above. I scared him away by going from a pdub to a Cobra. I ended up have to go backwards to keep him interested but it was too late. Went back to xr50, xr70 then older rm80 but like I said I scared him off already. What I learned was to walk them up slowly in comparible sizes, yes it costs more but it works if “they” are comfortable. With bicycles I went 8” wheel, 10”, 16” then to a 18”/20” convertible (frame accepted both size wheels) then finally to a 20” then walked him up through top tube length as he got bigger.

If I were you I would go 110 or similar as he could ride it like an auto while learning (2nd ger only, then 3rd) then teach to shift between the two then add all the gears. Power will never frighten him, then when he moves to a 65 or 80you have a pit bike to follow him around on. My opinion of course. Hope all is well, tell your dad I said hello!


Forgot to mention with Broc after me scaring him off the dirt bike at a very young age he found a love for it a couple years ago at around 20 y/o and we ride mx together as often as we can now. We rode bmx consistently together for about 17ish years now and still going. Even got him into mtb’ing a little. Good times! Enjoy!
psg119
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4/26/2019 9:02am
slipdog wrote:
I just picked up my 2nd PW80 last weekend so both my kids have one and they love them compared to the winter project I wasted...
I just picked up my 2nd PW80 last weekend so both my kids have one and they love them compared to the winter project I wasted my time and money on.

They don't care for this


But they can't get enough of these.

Love that CRF! The larger wheels on the peewees probably make it much more of an enjoyable ride for them.
4/26/2019 11:06am
brocster wrote:
Jared, With Broc I did the same thing kage173 mentions above. I scared him away by going from a pdub to a Cobra. I ended up...
Jared, With Broc I did the same thing kage173 mentions above. I scared him away by going from a pdub to a Cobra. I ended up have to go backwards to keep him interested but it was too late. Went back to xr50, xr70 then older rm80 but like I said I scared him off already. What I learned was to walk them up slowly in comparible sizes, yes it costs more but it works if “they” are comfortable. With bicycles I went 8” wheel, 10”, 16” then to a 18”/20” convertible (frame accepted both size wheels) then finally to a 20” then walked him up through top tube length as he got bigger.

If I were you I would go 110 or similar as he could ride it like an auto while learning (2nd ger only, then 3rd) then teach to shift between the two then add all the gears. Power will never frighten him, then when he moves to a 65 or 80you have a pit bike to follow him around on. My opinion of course. Hope all is well, tell your dad I said hello!


Forgot to mention with Broc after me scaring him off the dirt bike at a very young age he found a love for it a couple years ago at around 20 y/o and we ride mx together as often as we can now. We rode bmx consistently together for about 17ish years now and still going. Even got him into mtb’ing a little. Good times! Enjoy!
Good to hear from you ryno. I'm still a year or so out from him moving up on bikes, i'm just trying to get some opinions and ideas as to the next move and what makes economical sense. I have a ttr110 that we ride together that i let him shift and he's starting to learn his shift points, he has a little trouble upshifting but he understands when the shifting needs to occur. He is still young and too small for the ttr so i'm in absolutely no rush to move him up, just gathering thoughts and ideas as to what the options are. I'm certain if the lil man mentioned to papa dino that he wanted a 50 ktm the bike would be his tomorrow but i'm trying to be reasonable too. I want him on the pw50 as long as possible to learn how to correctly ride the bike through line selection and cornering, that's why if they had a plug and play legit suspension upgrade i would be able to keep him on it for a while longer. We'll see in about another year or so how he progresses and whats the next step. But he loves it so that puts a smile on my face.
mikec265
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4/26/2019 11:14am
Just ordered one of these for $580 shipped, and put a couple used bikes up for sale. The kid has been going back and forth between the XR50 and KX65.
His corner speed and intensity are way up on the 50 after riding the 65. He won't be on it long, but it'll be a big upgrade from the Honda,
and will be there for our next kids/ friends kids to ride.
bf884
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4/26/2019 11:28am



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B349*09
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4/26/2019 11:36am

The suspension kit you are referring to on my sons pw
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B349*09
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4/26/2019 11:41am

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mikec265
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4/26/2019 11:51am
bf884 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342048/s1200_63F9B582_A3C2_4DE4_A041_0D33D203F0EF.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342049/s1200_DA4DDD68_4AC9_4C61_9854_B0BA773F5E4A.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342050/s1200_73DA8BE9_6982_478E_8828_A55C4262EFE6.jpg[/img]



Those look pretty good. The one thing I don't like is, the seat looks like it slopes backwards, preventing them from riding the front of the bike.
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CivBars
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4/26/2019 12:05pm
It might be the way those are angled sitting with the skid plate on the stand? This could be a different model but the seat looks more flat. Could just be me. The more I look at..



Question
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4/26/2019 12:12pm
bf884 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342048/s1200_63F9B582_A3C2_4DE4_A041_0D33D203F0EF.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342049/s1200_DA4DDD68_4AC9_4C61_9854_B0BA773F5E4A.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342050/s1200_73DA8BE9_6982_478E_8828_A55C4262EFE6.jpg[/img]



mikec265 wrote:
Those look pretty good. The one thing I don't like is, the seat looks like it slopes backwards, preventing them from riding the front of the...
Those look pretty good. The one thing I don't like is, the seat looks like it slopes backwards, preventing them from riding the front of the bike.
I am not sold on the offset angle either, great on very small track but not really helping to be confortable at "high speed".

Otherwise, YCF is a french brand that has quite a good reputation here, the founder is really into mx so the bikes he sells are pretty high end in term of quality, reliability, after sale support, etc. I know quite a few people happy with YCF.
1
4/26/2019 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 4/26/2019 12:31pm
B349*09 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342051/s1200_20180403_183706.jpg[/img] The suspension kit you are referring to on my sons pw

The suspension kit you are referring to on my sons pw
How does it compare to the stock suspension. Is there more travel, is it plush, adjustable? The details on this kit weren't very descriptive. Any info as far as performance, fitment, etc, feel free to elaborate. Thanks, i was hoping someone would have this kit to get an idea how it performed.
1
4/26/2019 12:29pm
bf884 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342048/s1200_63F9B582_A3C2_4DE4_A041_0D33D203F0EF.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342049/s1200_DA4DDD68_4AC9_4C61_9854_B0BA773F5E4A.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342050/s1200_73DA8BE9_6982_478E_8828_A55C4262EFE6.jpg[/img]



mikec265 wrote:
Those look pretty good. The one thing I don't like is, the seat looks like it slopes backwards, preventing them from riding the front of the...
Those look pretty good. The one thing I don't like is, the seat looks like it slopes backwards, preventing them from riding the front of the bike.
Question wrote:
I am not sold on the offset angle either, great on very small track but not really helping to be confortable at "high speed". Otherwise, YCF...
I am not sold on the offset angle either, great on very small track but not really helping to be confortable at "high speed".

Otherwise, YCF is a french brand that has quite a good reputation here, the founder is really into mx so the bikes he sells are pretty high end in term of quality, reliability, after sale support, etc. I know quite a few people happy with YCF.
Dang, those suckers look sweet. I will definitely check them out.
1
AngryBear
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4/26/2019 12:48pm
big fans of the PW around here




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B349*09
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4/26/2019 1:04pm Edited Date/Time 4/26/2019 1:34pm
B349*09 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342051/s1200_20180403_183706.jpg[/img] The suspension kit you are referring to on my sons pw

The suspension kit you are referring to on my sons pw
peltier626 wrote:
How does it compare to the stock suspension. Is there more travel, is it plush, adjustable? The details on this kit weren't very descriptive. Any info...
How does it compare to the stock suspension. Is there more travel, is it plush, adjustable? The details on this kit weren't very descriptive. Any info as far as performance, fitment, etc, feel free to elaborate. Thanks, i was hoping someone would have this kit to get an idea how it performed.
The rear gets coverted to a adjustable rebound, and compresson single shock. The forks are basically pw80 forks. You have to drill out the lower clamp to fit. I have a 60cc head on it, ktm 65 carb, lower final drive gear, extended swing arm. Etc... It works great for a pw. We also just got a ktm 65 sx he is working his way onto. The pw will end up being his pit bike for many years to come...
B349*09
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4/26/2019 1:16pm
B349*09 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342051/s1200_20180403_183706.jpg[/img] The suspension kit you are referring to on my sons pw

The suspension kit you are referring to on my sons pw
peltier626 wrote:
How does it compare to the stock suspension. Is there more travel, is it plush, adjustable? The details on this kit weren't very descriptive. Any info...
How does it compare to the stock suspension. Is there more travel, is it plush, adjustable? The details on this kit weren't very descriptive. Any info as far as performance, fitment, etc, feel free to elaborate. Thanks, i was hoping someone would have this kit to get an idea how it performed.
B349*09 wrote:
The rear gets coverted to a adjustable rebound, and compresson single shock. The forks are basically pw80 forks. You have to drill out the lower clamp...
The rear gets coverted to a adjustable rebound, and compresson single shock. The forks are basically pw80 forks. You have to drill out the lower clamp to fit. I have a 60cc head on it, ktm 65 carb, lower final drive gear, extended swing arm. Etc... It works great for a pw. We also just got a ktm 65 sx he is working his way onto. The pw will end up being his pit bike for many years to come...

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psg119
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4/26/2019 1:33pm
AngryBear wrote:
big fans of the PW around here [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342069/s1200_23659690_10155123312542654_8841320784385313355_n.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342070/s1200_23722547_10155123312532654_2820860659620720116_n.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/04/26/342071/s1200_26219469_10155260249497654_3931450533076292714_n.jpg[/img]
big fans of the PW around here




He looks like he rips!
2

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