Irony or thought police?

JBecker 72
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JBecker 72 3/28/2019 12:20pm
3/28/2019 12:20pm
BobKerr wrote:
Feld: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/03/28/334652/s1200_shooting_self_in_foot.jpg[/img]
Feld:


Do you have permission to post that Getty image?
2
Dimblewambie
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Dimblewambie 3/28/2019 12:23pm
3/28/2019 12:23pm
BobKerr wrote:
Feld: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/03/28/334652/s1200_shooting_self_in_foot.jpg[/img]
Feld:


Fixed
2
GuyB
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GuyB 3/28/2019 12:42pm
3/28/2019 12:42pm
seventeen wrote:
This should be interesting to you...currently Twitter, a larger but similar organization to this one is facing a $250 million lawsuit alleging the censorship of conservative...
This should be interesting to you...currently Twitter, a larger but similar organization to this one is facing a $250 million lawsuit alleging the censorship of conservative opinions and deliberate removal of content. One may argue - like you have - that Twitter and thus Vital are private entities and therefore control the content of their pages.

Let's be fair however. Twitter ia a publically controlled entity so this comparison is not completely relevant but you will see my point in a second.

When this motion against Twitter is invariably struck down in a liberal circuit court the appeal will take it to a supreme court level. And there is where we will find a precedent. Do you remember occupy Wall Street...the park that the protesters staged their events was private; they were actually given permission to be there...however...courts ruled that by openly INVITING the public to the park or in this case the pages of Vital, the duty of care of the owner is now that of a public place. Vital has been using the "It is our forum so we can censor your speech" methodology for some time now. Just thought it interesting that the courts have opined on these matters already and it did not favor that of the "private" entity.

The Twitter case will change how all forums are moderated.
What say you GuyB...?
I say bringing politics in it is a good way to invalidate your argument. I generally delete that stuff as soon as it pops up...from whichever side.

As far as anything in a court case relating to Twitter changing up how we run things? It likely won’t make a bit of difference.
1
GeorgiePorgie 3/28/2019 1:11pm
3/28/2019 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 3/28/2019 1:14pm
No it’s a privately held forum. There’s no rights guaranteed here. Not taking sides, just stating an actual fact.

Also see posting guidelines. If you’re smart you can stretch the rules a bit but eventually colonel klick will get ya. But he’s pretty cool about not giving the death penalty. You get out of time out after a little while. Sometimes it’s worth the time out!
7

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FWYT
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FWYT 3/28/2019 1:15pm
3/28/2019 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 3/28/2019 1:15pm
As a long-time photographer, I pretty much always side with the creatives and artists, or the ones that hold the IP rights. Musician wants money for someone to use their song? Hell, yeah, pay up mofo. If Feld has the rights to those broadcasts then hey, it's their property and they can do what they want.

I do imagine that if there was a way to monetize the archives, they would be doing it, what with all their resources.
The example of SNL controlling their own channel was a good one and I'm not sure why they haven't done something similar.
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GuyB
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GuyB 3/28/2019 1:21pm
3/28/2019 1:21pm
Whistling Laughing
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Donovan759
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Donovan759 3/28/2019 1:40pm
3/28/2019 1:40pm
GTFO NOOB
1
milliebays
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milliebays 3/28/2019 1:46pm
3/28/2019 1:46pm
seventeen wrote:
This should be interesting to you...currently Twitter, a larger but similar organization to this one is facing a $250 million lawsuit alleging the censorship of conservative...
This should be interesting to you...currently Twitter, a larger but similar organization to this one is facing a $250 million lawsuit alleging the censorship of conservative opinions and deliberate removal of content. One may argue - like you have - that Twitter and thus Vital are private entities and therefore control the content of their pages.

Let's be fair however. Twitter ia a publically controlled entity so this comparison is not completely relevant but you will see my point in a second.

When this motion against Twitter is invariably struck down in a liberal circuit court the appeal will take it to a supreme court level. And there is where we will find a precedent. Do you remember occupy Wall Street...the park that the protesters staged their events was private; they were actually given permission to be there...however...courts ruled that by openly INVITING the public to the park or in this case the pages of Vital, the duty of care of the owner is now that of a public place. Vital has been using the "It is our forum so we can censor your speech" methodology for some time now. Just thought it interesting that the courts have opined on these matters already and it did not favor that of the "private" entity.

The Twitter case will change how all forums are moderated.
What say you GuyB...?
GuyB wrote:
I say bringing politics in it is a good way to invalidate your argument. I generally delete that stuff as soon as it pops up...from whichever...
I say bringing politics in it is a good way to invalidate your argument. I generally delete that stuff as soon as it pops up...from whichever side.

As far as anything in a court case relating to Twitter changing up how we run things? It likely won’t make a bit of difference.
overly frank discussion scares advertisers away, but overly-excessive censorship drives the users away, lowering traffic and thereby reducing advertisers' incentive to spend ad dollars.

it's a double-edged sword for sure, but the end result of excessive censorship will drive folks to find another forum to express themselves.

vitalmtb forums seem pretty dead compared to pinkbike, for example. pinkbike doesn't delete comments for merely being critical of industry insiders or advertisers or even getting reasonably political. they make enough money that they were able to acquire cyclingtips; so their relatively laissez faire approach seems to work well for them.

1
GuyB
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GuyB 3/28/2019 1:51pm
3/28/2019 1:51pm
milliebays wrote:
overly frank discussion scares advertisers away, but overly-excessive censorship drives the users away, lowering traffic and thereby reducing advertisers' incentive to spend ad dollars. it's a...
overly frank discussion scares advertisers away, but overly-excessive censorship drives the users away, lowering traffic and thereby reducing advertisers' incentive to spend ad dollars.

it's a double-edged sword for sure, but the end result of excessive censorship will drive folks to find another forum to express themselves.

vitalmtb forums seem pretty dead compared to pinkbike, for example. pinkbike doesn't delete comments for merely being critical of industry insiders or advertisers or even getting reasonably political. they make enough money that they were able to acquire cyclingtips; so their relatively laissez faire approach seems to work well for them.

There’s a small percentage of users that I don’t mind eliminating. They’re the ones who want to argue their point into the ground, to the annoyance of everyone else in the forum. Smile
1
milliebays
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milliebays 3/28/2019 1:57pm
3/28/2019 1:57pm Edited Date/Time 3/28/2019 1:58pm
milliebays wrote:
overly frank discussion scares advertisers away, but overly-excessive censorship drives the users away, lowering traffic and thereby reducing advertisers' incentive to spend ad dollars. it's a...
overly frank discussion scares advertisers away, but overly-excessive censorship drives the users away, lowering traffic and thereby reducing advertisers' incentive to spend ad dollars.

it's a double-edged sword for sure, but the end result of excessive censorship will drive folks to find another forum to express themselves.

vitalmtb forums seem pretty dead compared to pinkbike, for example. pinkbike doesn't delete comments for merely being critical of industry insiders or advertisers or even getting reasonably political. they make enough money that they were able to acquire cyclingtips; so their relatively laissez faire approach seems to work well for them.

GuyB wrote:
There’s a small percentage of users that I don’t mind eliminating. They’re the ones who want to argue their point into the ground, to the annoyance...
There’s a small percentage of users that I don’t mind eliminating. They’re the ones who want to argue their point into the ground, to the annoyance of everyone else in the forum. Smile
but you're cool with leaving in place all the ad hominem attacks as "rebuttals" (loosely using the term)?? Got it.
milliebays
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milliebays 3/28/2019 2:13pm
3/28/2019 2:13pm
re Feld - it's sorta the same thing - money talks - they will continue on their current trajectory until they have financial incentive to do otherwise, unfortunately.

maybe they do have valid copyright claims to legacy race recordings, however, not providing some forum for enthusiasts to enjoy those treasures of the sport at a reasonable cost really speaks to their regard and passion for the sport itself.

very sad.
2
SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 3/28/2019 2:33pm
3/28/2019 2:33pm
True story, I'd pay for high quality versions of 90s and 2000s race seasons... Come on Feld, get to work!

As far as Feld abusing copyright laws... They need to back the F off on user made content.
4
newmann
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newmann 3/28/2019 3:00pm
3/28/2019 3:00pm
milliebays wrote:
overly frank discussion scares advertisers away, but overly-excessive censorship drives the users away, lowering traffic and thereby reducing advertisers' incentive to spend ad dollars. it's a...
overly frank discussion scares advertisers away, but overly-excessive censorship drives the users away, lowering traffic and thereby reducing advertisers' incentive to spend ad dollars.

it's a double-edged sword for sure, but the end result of excessive censorship will drive folks to find another forum to express themselves.

vitalmtb forums seem pretty dead compared to pinkbike, for example. pinkbike doesn't delete comments for merely being critical of industry insiders or advertisers or even getting reasonably political. they make enough money that they were able to acquire cyclingtips; so their relatively laissez faire approach seems to work well for them.

GuyB wrote:
There’s a small percentage of users that I don’t mind eliminating. They’re the ones who want to argue their point into the ground, to the annoyance...
There’s a small percentage of users that I don’t mind eliminating. They’re the ones who want to argue their point into the ground, to the annoyance of everyone else in the forum. Smile
You clicked Cox?Laughing
1
early
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early 3/29/2019 9:33am
3/29/2019 9:33am
early wrote:
But why was the tread deleted and not sent to the dumbgeon?
GuyB wrote:
Because some stuff is too dumb for the dungeon. Watching old races helps grow the sport? (Or not being able to watch them inhibits growth?) C’mon...
Because some stuff is too dumb for the dungeon.

Watching old races helps grow the sport? (Or not being able to watch them inhibits growth?) C’mon.

P.S. Deleted threads are not some giant conspiracy.
JS7 documentary series and LA Colliseum DLC for MESX both released today, but obviously noone cares about old supercross races...
1
4rings 3/29/2019 10:32am
3/29/2019 10:32am
Not too surprised. Feld runs the circus and sx is a $ideshow. I Haven't seen a single race this year as it seems to be very limited in how to watch, and not paying the NBC rate.

I would be totally content if they extended the outdoor nationals and scrapped sx. The great outdoors ftw. and better broadcast team...
1
early
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early 3/29/2019 10:36am
3/29/2019 10:36am
4rings wrote:
Not too surprised. Feld runs the circus and sx is a $ideshow. I Haven't seen a single race this year as it seems to be very...
Not too surprised. Feld runs the circus and sx is a $ideshow. I Haven't seen a single race this year as it seems to be very limited in how to watch, and not paying the NBC rate.

I would be totally content if they extended the outdoor nationals and scrapped sx. The great outdoors ftw. and better broadcast team...
How will you be watching the outdoors?
4rings 3/29/2019 10:53am
3/29/2019 10:53am
early wrote:
How will you be watching the outdoors?
Good point! Thanks. I just peeped the TV schedule and wow, more BS. Not surprised but I'll happily support the Outdoors. And MAVtv is an option on some weekends.

http://www.promotocross.com/mx/tv-schedule
Spudnut
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Spudnut 3/29/2019 11:07am
3/29/2019 11:07am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2019 11:08am
Yeah this place has gone to shit ever since ML left

More ads everyday and less decent content posted by users.

Has the slow painful death of vital mx Begun?

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CozMan
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CozMan 3/29/2019 11:12am
3/29/2019 11:12am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2019 11:17am
milliebays wrote:
overly frank discussion scares advertisers away, but overly-excessive censorship drives the users away, lowering traffic and thereby reducing advertisers' incentive to spend ad dollars. it's a...
overly frank discussion scares advertisers away, but overly-excessive censorship drives the users away, lowering traffic and thereby reducing advertisers' incentive to spend ad dollars.

it's a double-edged sword for sure, but the end result of excessive censorship will drive folks to find another forum to express themselves.

vitalmtb forums seem pretty dead compared to pinkbike, for example. pinkbike doesn't delete comments for merely being critical of industry insiders or advertisers or even getting reasonably political. they make enough money that they were able to acquire cyclingtips; so their relatively laissez faire approach seems to work well for them.

GuyB wrote:
There’s a small percentage of users that I don’t mind eliminating. They’re the ones who want to argue their point into the ground, to the annoyance...
There’s a small percentage of users that I don’t mind eliminating. They’re the ones who want to argue their point into the ground, to the annoyance of everyone else in the forum. Smile
man, I still don't get why you do this to yourself. You police the forums and dump topics that YOU think aren't valid enough, yet leave up hundreds of totally random and pointless posts. Then when you get called out for this, you engage in these arguments that basically amount to you telling your customers: "SHOVE IT".

I can understand that some of them might hurt your bottom line when people bash your advertisers, but when the discussion is valid (Feld pulling old SX races) you say "It's stupid. It doesn't help the sport" and then someone shows a screencap of Feld posting old SX races on FB.

I'll say again that I think you should consider taking a break from this forum admin job. That's not cause you're a dick, it's cause it appears to have worn you down a bit. I wouldn't blame you one bit. Either that, or simply post a set of rules for posting, and unless someone breaks those rules, posts are unmoderated. That's how 99.9% of all forums work. Also on most forums, if an admin locks a thread, they post the reason WHY as the last response: "This thread has broken down into a discussion on XYZ, which was not the intent. If you'd like to keep discussing XYZ, please start a new thread."

Anyway, my .02.

EDIT - here's your "Posting Guidelines" - https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Vital-MX-Posting-Rules,4…

Can you please let us know what rule was broken by a discussion about the archiving of old SX races?
6
731chopper
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731chopper 3/29/2019 11:20am
3/29/2019 11:20am
GuyB wrote:
Because some stuff is too dumb for the dungeon. Watching old races helps grow the sport? (Or not being able to watch them inhibits growth?) C’mon...
Because some stuff is too dumb for the dungeon.

Watching old races helps grow the sport? (Or not being able to watch them inhibits growth?) C’mon.

P.S. Deleted threads are not some giant conspiracy.
It absolutely helps grow the sport! That is the way media is consumed by the younger generations. Kids find things on YouTube that interest them and then proceed to get more involved in whatever it is.

The person at FELD making these decisions is out of touch.
4
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/29/2019 12:41pm
3/29/2019 12:41pm
kb228 wrote:
Its their content. They own it. They can do what they want with it. Its pointless to even discuss it. Sure it sucks they do it...
Its their content. They own it. They can do what they want with it. Its pointless to even discuss it. Sure it sucks they do it but what are you gonna do?
seventeen wrote:
This should be interesting to you...currently Twitter, a larger but similar organization to this one is facing a $250 million lawsuit alleging the censorship of conservative...
This should be interesting to you...currently Twitter, a larger but similar organization to this one is facing a $250 million lawsuit alleging the censorship of conservative opinions and deliberate removal of content. One may argue - like you have - that Twitter and thus Vital are private entities and therefore control the content of their pages.

Let's be fair however. Twitter ia a publically controlled entity so this comparison is not completely relevant but you will see my point in a second.

When this motion against Twitter is invariably struck down in a liberal circuit court the appeal will take it to a supreme court level. And there is where we will find a precedent. Do you remember occupy Wall Street...the park that the protesters staged their events was private; they were actually given permission to be there...however...courts ruled that by openly INVITING the public to the park or in this case the pages of Vital, the duty of care of the owner is now that of a public place. Vital has been using the "It is our forum so we can censor your speech" methodology for some time now. Just thought it interesting that the courts have opined on these matters already and it did not favor that of the "private" entity.

The Twitter case will change how all forums are moderated.
What say you GuyB...?
What does a duty of care case have to do with censorship and first amendment?
early
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early 3/30/2019 8:07am
3/30/2019 8:07am
early wrote:
But why was the tread deleted and not sent to the dumbgeon?
GuyB wrote:
Because some stuff is too dumb for the dungeon. Watching old races helps grow the sport? (Or not being able to watch them inhibits growth?) C’mon...
Because some stuff is too dumb for the dungeon.

Watching old races helps grow the sport? (Or not being able to watch them inhibits growth?) C’mon.

P.S. Deleted threads are not some giant conspiracy.
Yup, being able to see old races doesn't do shit for the sport. The guy on tv just posted this to get some fan engagement. .

1
SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 3/30/2019 9:20am
3/30/2019 9:20am
Whoever has the rights and archives (assuming someone still actually has them) is doing the sport a disservice by not allowing access to them in some form.

The fact that we have to rely on moto enthusiasts to digitize their old VHS tapes and upload them to YouTube is crazy.

(No offense to anyone that may happen to upload old races to YouTube. You guys are doing the Lord's work, it's just that quality of VHS recordings leave a lot to be desired.)
Hoseclamp
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Hoseclamp 3/30/2019 9:51am
3/30/2019 9:51am
Im pretty pissed too. I used to record everything onto dvds I have like 4 or 5 seasons, then they put some encoding or something so it wouldnt work. Forced me to get a dvr. At the end of the sx and mx season last year my dvr was pretty full and aparently there is no way to pull the shows off and store them even digitaly. I was forced to delete last season to make some room for this season. At least I can always go look them up on youtube.... or maybe not now. Dangit! Is there anywhere you can buy the complete season on a dvd or something? Its bullshit if you ask me, not like I was selling the shit to anyone. I paid for it and believe I should have access to it when I want to rewatch it.

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