Carmichael VS Every rider right now.

Jarrod458
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Jarrod458
Edited Date/Time 2/27/2019 7:21am
Props to RC for being able to ride any bike with any setting and get it figured out in a few laps. Guys these days have one minor setting feel “off” and it’s ruins them. RC...... Cheers to you man!
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Johnny Lock 2/24/2019 9:34am
2/24/2019 9:34am
Yeah but now it’s not just the rider saying what’s up - the teams are looking at your data and muddling it up by making their own suggestions.

“I see you were only 1/3 open on the throttle here when last lap you were at 1/2open. Do you know why? Let’s drop the sag and see what happens.”
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beamer
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beamer 2/24/2019 9:37am
2/24/2019 9:37am
I would say RV also fit into this category as well.
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H4L
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H4L 2/24/2019 9:42am
2/24/2019 9:42am
Johnny Lock wrote:
Yeah but now it’s not just the rider saying what’s up - the teams are looking at your data and muddling it up by making their...
Yeah but now it’s not just the rider saying what’s up - the teams are looking at your data and muddling it up by making their own suggestions.

“I see you were only 1/3 open on the throttle here when last lap you were at 1/2open. Do you know why? Let’s drop the sag and see what happens.”
I did find the science of supercross segment last night interesting coming from a guy that raced in the 80's.. There is such a thing as to much info.. I work for a world wide corp. & sometimes have to condense the info I get as a rep in the field. All the info given can sometimes be overwhelming while some info is definitely helpful.
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carmfarm
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carmfarm 2/24/2019 10:19am
2/24/2019 10:19am
70% rider 30% bike ....isn't that what Decoster said?
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philG
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philG 2/24/2019 10:25am
2/24/2019 10:25am
With such a king of set-up as RC, he is always bang on the money
plowboy
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plowboy 2/24/2019 10:29am
2/24/2019 10:29am
Heck, we are probably only a couple of gyros away from fully autonomous bikes or at least remotely controlled.Sick
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snackfedbear
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snackfedbear 2/24/2019 10:51am
2/24/2019 10:51am
beamer wrote:
I would say RV also fit into this category as well.
RV literally raced for one brand his whole life..
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Andy_Greenney 2/24/2019 12:44pm
2/24/2019 12:44pm
Some riders are good at set up, some riders are good at riding around problems, some are neither. I think its something thats hardwired.
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Thisusernameisavailable 2/24/2019 12:49pm
2/24/2019 12:49pm
I remember reading an interview with the 'then' KTM MXGP team manager- MIGHT have been Kurt Nicoll, but I can't be sure. He said that if the team changed one compression click on Peter Johanssen's bike he'd do one lap and pull in, saying something wasn't right with the bike, whereas you could change the rear shock to an iron rod on Grant Langston's 125SX and he'd go out there and ride at the same speed.
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4maddox
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4maddox 2/24/2019 12:58pm
2/24/2019 12:58pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I remember reading an interview with the 'then' KTM MXGP team manager- MIGHT have been Kurt Nicoll, but I can't be sure. He said that if...
I remember reading an interview with the 'then' KTM MXGP team manager- MIGHT have been Kurt Nicoll, but I can't be sure. He said that if the team changed one compression click on Peter Johanssen's bike he'd do one lap and pull in, saying something wasn't right with the bike, whereas you could change the rear shock to an iron rod on Grant Langston's 125SX and he'd go out there and ride at the same speed.
Nice anecdote!
cjmx
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cjmx 2/24/2019 1:03pm
2/24/2019 1:03pm
beamer wrote:
I would say RV also fit into this category as well.
For sure. He commented several times about just adapting.
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slideways
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slideways 2/24/2019 1:33pm
2/24/2019 1:33pm
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the track with certainty and how to fix it. I can’t even imagine the frustration their riders must feel, especially when you know they can’t just say ‘scram dude, beat it’.
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wavslide1
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wavslide1 2/24/2019 1:38pm
2/24/2019 1:38pm
That's funny and remembering what Reed said about following RC's Honda through the whoops and it just being a pig all over the place. RC still took the title.
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deluxeman
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deluxeman 2/24/2019 2:07pm
2/24/2019 2:07pm
slideways wrote:
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the...
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the track with certainty and how to fix it. I can’t even imagine the frustration their riders must feel, especially when you know they can’t just say ‘scram dude, beat it’.
This is a crazy statement, new bikes are so much better today because of all this data. Knowledge is power. Yes you can get buried in data, but you have to have data to make sure your changes are correct. Data is king in every form of racing now, for better or worse.
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slideways
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slideways 2/24/2019 2:19pm
2/24/2019 2:19pm
slideways wrote:
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the...
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the track with certainty and how to fix it. I can’t even imagine the frustration their riders must feel, especially when you know they can’t just say ‘scram dude, beat it’.
deluxeman wrote:
This is a crazy statement, new bikes are so much better today because of all this data. Knowledge is power. Yes you can get buried in...
This is a crazy statement, new bikes are so much better today because of all this data. Knowledge is power. Yes you can get buried in data, but you have to have data to make sure your changes are correct. Data is king in every form of racing now, for better or worse.
I wonder why Tomac and his crew didn’t just simply change each component on the bike to make his 19’ bike exactly like the 18’ bike. They’d just need to make the lines on the graphs overlap correct? Just my opinion, but I think there are too many constantly changing variables in MX/SX to have much benefit. I can see it being more detrimental than anything.
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slideways
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slideways 2/24/2019 2:37pm
2/24/2019 2:37pm
slideways wrote:
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the...
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the track with certainty and how to fix it. I can’t even imagine the frustration their riders must feel, especially when you know they can’t just say ‘scram dude, beat it’.
deluxeman wrote:
This is a crazy statement, new bikes are so much better today because of all this data. Knowledge is power. Yes you can get buried in...
This is a crazy statement, new bikes are so much better today because of all this data. Knowledge is power. Yes you can get buried in data, but you have to have data to make sure your changes are correct. Data is king in every form of racing now, for better or worse.
slideways wrote:
I wonder why Tomac and his crew didn’t just simply change each component on the bike to make his 19’ bike exactly like the 18’ bike...
I wonder why Tomac and his crew didn’t just simply change each component on the bike to make his 19’ bike exactly like the 18’ bike. They’d just need to make the lines on the graphs overlap correct? Just my opinion, but I think there are too many constantly changing variables in MX/SX to have much benefit. I can see it being more detrimental than anything.
It’s not the data that I see being detrimental but rather the guy questioning the rider ‘is this why, or that possibly why’. Yes I can see some of this data being beneficial at times for things. I’m pretty sure I could sense a small bit of frustration from Savatgy at the end of that segment last night. ... Do you know anything about pid tuning? A process variable being controlled by a controller output? Well research closed loop tuning and try wrapping your head around it then try applying this concept to a dirt bike rider. The only problem is that a human is the ‘feedback’ on a bike which is tied to the human brain and is not within a perfect tolerance like an electrical component is. When the dynamics of a process change, the ‘pid’ tuning goes out the window and it is not in control anymore. With the dynamics of a track changing each lap it is impossible to find some sort of perfect ‘setpoint’ for the bikes setup. ...
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H4L
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H4L 2/24/2019 2:56pm
2/24/2019 2:56pm
slideways wrote:
I wonder why Tomac and his crew didn’t just simply change each component on the bike to make his 19’ bike exactly like the 18’ bike...
I wonder why Tomac and his crew didn’t just simply change each component on the bike to make his 19’ bike exactly like the 18’ bike. They’d just need to make the lines on the graphs overlap correct? Just my opinion, but I think there are too many constantly changing variables in MX/SX to have much benefit. I can see it being more detrimental than anything.
To your point. The data given at the beginning of the race might not work by lap 20. To many variables to consider like changing track conditions, rider fatigue, suspension, engine, tranny changes due to heat etc.. Real live scenarios I don't believe can be replicated by any software.
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H4L
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H4L 2/24/2019 2:58pm
2/24/2019 2:58pm
slideways wrote:
It’s not the data that I see being detrimental but rather the guy questioning the rider ‘is this why, or that possibly why’. Yes I can...
It’s not the data that I see being detrimental but rather the guy questioning the rider ‘is this why, or that possibly why’. Yes I can see some of this data being beneficial at times for things. I’m pretty sure I could sense a small bit of frustration from Savatgy at the end of that segment last night. ... Do you know anything about pid tuning? A process variable being controlled by a controller output? Well research closed loop tuning and try wrapping your head around it then try applying this concept to a dirt bike rider. The only problem is that a human is the ‘feedback’ on a bike which is tied to the human brain and is not within a perfect tolerance like an electrical component is. When the dynamics of a process change, the ‘pid’ tuning goes out the window and it is not in control anymore. With the dynamics of a track changing each lap it is impossible to find some sort of perfect ‘setpoint’ for the bikes setup. ...
You beat me to it. I was thinking similar along those lines.

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sbarrington314 2/24/2019 4:12pm
2/24/2019 4:12pm
I think part of it is that now a days, there's so much competition that they have to search for something to give them an extra 1/10 a sec per lap. RC had to worry about JS7 and CR22. Now these guys have 10 dudes or more that can be within the same second.
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NateDawg
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NateDawg 2/24/2019 4:26pm
2/24/2019 4:26pm
RC could ride a wheelbarrow fast. So many times he was on inferior equipment and it just didn't matter:
a couple of those years against Reed on the 2-strokes, the 2003 outdoor title when KDUB had the 450, 2003 MXoN at Zolder when Everts had the 500, etc.

He could ride almost anything and still dominate.
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Johnny Lock 2/24/2019 4:34pm
2/24/2019 4:34pm
slideways wrote:
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the...
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the track with certainty and how to fix it. I can’t even imagine the frustration their riders must feel, especially when you know they can’t just say ‘scram dude, beat it’.
Pretty much how it seemed when Savatgy was like “I don’t know got any suggestions?” on SOS.

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devindavisphoto 2/24/2019 4:35pm
2/24/2019 4:35pm
In defense to the riders today, if a rider is feeling "it" then they're likely tenths, maybe a few tenths quicker than the field. When Ricky or James was on, they were 2-3 seconds faster than 2nd and could get away with winning with an "off" setup. In 2019, an "off" setup will get you around 5th-8th for the top guys.
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Mxracer6y
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Mxracer6y 2/24/2019 4:43pm
2/24/2019 4:43pm
slideways wrote:
I wonder why Tomac and his crew didn’t just simply change each component on the bike to make his 19’ bike exactly like the 18’ bike...
I wonder why Tomac and his crew didn’t just simply change each component on the bike to make his 19’ bike exactly like the 18’ bike. They’d just need to make the lines on the graphs overlap correct? Just my opinion, but I think there are too many constantly changing variables in MX/SX to have much benefit. I can see it being more detrimental than anything.
Tomac was on the '19 for the MEC and looked unstoppable.

Trust me. Its NOT the bike thats the problem. Its that goddamn thing between his ears. The guy is such a frigging head case.

He would win every race if he would stay out of his own damn head.
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slideways
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slideways 2/24/2019 4:43pm
2/24/2019 4:43pm
I set my sag, place the clickers close to the middle and run it, never changing it. Sure I could probly make this or that feel a little sweeter by playing with adjustments depending where I was riding. The biggest factor is the rider. In shape, Carmichael would run with all these guys on my 04 crf450. Since Tomac was killing it last year why wouldn’t Kawi just throw a 19’ sticker over the 18’ and call it the new bike. Why changes? How fast can a human possibly go around a closed course dirt track? I think we’ve all already witnessed just how fast by several different riders.
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slideways
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slideways 2/24/2019 5:01pm
2/24/2019 5:01pm
devindavisphoto wrote:
In defense to the riders today, if a rider is feeling "it" then they're likely tenths, maybe a few tenths quicker than the field. When Ricky...
In defense to the riders today, if a rider is feeling "it" then they're likely tenths, maybe a few tenths quicker than the field. When Ricky or James was on, they were 2-3 seconds faster than 2nd and could get away with winning with an "off" setup. In 2019, an "off" setup will get you around 5th-8th for the top guys.
Nah. I disagree. It’s excuses today from riders unlike the riders you mentioned who absolutely had a heart of a Lion. Villo too
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slideways
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slideways 2/24/2019 5:05pm
2/24/2019 5:05pm
I wonder if the software program has a determination factor setting in the toolbar to explain why Carmichael hit the boat?
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slideways
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slideways 2/24/2019 5:19pm
2/24/2019 5:19pm
slideways wrote:
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the...
If you ask one of those team computer data guru dorks I’m sure they can tell you when, what, where and why anything happened on the track with certainty and how to fix it. I can’t even imagine the frustration their riders must feel, especially when you know they can’t just say ‘scram dude, beat it’.
deluxeman wrote:
This is a crazy statement, new bikes are so much better today because of all this data. Knowledge is power. Yes you can get buried in...
This is a crazy statement, new bikes are so much better today because of all this data. Knowledge is power. Yes you can get buried in data, but you have to have data to make sure your changes are correct. Data is king in every form of racing now, for better or worse.
I agree with data being needed to change the bikes for the better. I disagree with data telling whether it was the right change. That is the riders decision.
uk125250
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uk125250 2/24/2019 5:19pm
2/24/2019 5:19pm
snackfedbear wrote:
RV literally raced for one brand his whole life..
He raced Yamahas.
Wiff3
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Wiff3 2/24/2019 7:56pm
2/24/2019 7:56pm
Ricky adapted and stepped up to every challenge, from everyone. for every championship he entered. The times, or the equipment, or the technology wouldn't make any difference. He would still be stomping everyone.
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HusqFan3
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HusqFan3 2/25/2019 4:52pm
2/25/2019 4:52pm
Johnny Lock wrote:
Yeah but now it’s not just the rider saying what’s up - the teams are looking at your data and muddling it up by making their...
Yeah but now it’s not just the rider saying what’s up - the teams are looking at your data and muddling it up by making their own suggestions.

“I see you were only 1/3 open on the throttle here when last lap you were at 1/2open. Do you know why? Let’s drop the sag and see what happens.”
H4L wrote:
I did find the science of supercross segment last night interesting coming from a guy that raced in the 80's.. There is such a thing as...
I did find the science of supercross segment last night interesting coming from a guy that raced in the 80's.. There is such a thing as to much info.. I work for a world wide corp. & sometimes have to condense the info I get as a rep in the field. All the info given can sometimes be overwhelming while some info is definitely helpful.
Agreed. It’s what’s known in the corporate world as analysis paralysis...
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