(Edit: apologies to the people I've offended by calling Redbud a sand track)Anyone know why Redbud became a sand(IER) track?

segers
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segers 10/9/2018 2:27am
10/9/2018 2:27am
Sideways wrote:
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3...
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3 corners. other than that, no extra sand was brought in. It was the rain that did this to the track.
ssssst,no facts allowed for the next few weeks until the asswhooping is out of their system Wink
r18b
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r18b 10/9/2018 3:08am
10/9/2018 3:08am
Sideways wrote:
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3...
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3 corners. other than that, no extra sand was brought in. It was the rain that did this to the track.
segers wrote:
ssssst,no facts allowed for the next few weeks until the asswhooping is out of their system Wink
Laughing

Ow dear this will start another drama Whistling

Red bud looked the same like mc flevoland in holland. That's the only hardpack in holland. Well the nicest one.( off the 2 tracks)

I would advice team usa for next year to be there at least a week before the race to train in true sand. Like lichtenvoorde berghem lommel arnhem deurne grevenbroich etc etc . Wink

Now it was 70 sec behind then it could be a lap and i don't wanna see barcia that far behind in the sand.
Bam bam needs to be in front!!
Tomac got stage fright so he won't come over.
PRM31
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PRM31 10/9/2018 4:21am
10/9/2018 4:21am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2018 4:25am
It seems like the window for what is considered a track that would suit the nationals riders has become very narrow, while everything else is better suited to the euros. The tracks and conditions are not the problem. A wide variety of challenging training tracks to develop technical skills are needed in the US. These perfectly groomed tracks are doing the riders no favors.
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Crush
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Crush 10/9/2018 4:29am
10/9/2018 4:29am
Sideways wrote:
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3...
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3 corners. other than that, no extra sand was brought in. It was the rain that did this to the track.
When was the last time there was a wet national at Red Bud, I seriously can't remember.

It was pretty one lined though... Pretty sure the last year RV was there, or perhaps 2014 it felt similar... like you went inside because there was just no reason to go wide.

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motomike137
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motomike137 10/9/2018 4:58am
10/9/2018 4:58am
KDXGarage wrote:
Tell me you're joking.
pbody wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/10/08/293309/s1200_20181007_173129.jpg[/img] I wish I was....taken after the third moto.


I wish I was....taken after the third moto.
MotoX85 wrote:
I noticed this also. The track had dried out in sections but not enough to switch from a mud tire and it showed. Not sure the...
I noticed this also. The track had dried out in sections but not enough to switch from a mud tire and it showed. Not sure the thinking on this one. Painfully obvious from the lack of wear on the lugs.
Maybe they were thinking he would get a better launch off the metal starting gate with that tire? I'm sure Justin wanted a holeshot badly. Just a theory.
motomike137
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motomike137 10/9/2018 4:59am
10/9/2018 4:59am
Sideways wrote:
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3...
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3 corners. other than that, no extra sand was brought in. It was the rain that did this to the track.
I stand corrected then. I really felt they added more than that.
JustMX
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JustMX 10/9/2018 6:17am
10/9/2018 6:17am
No, they will not remove the sand.

Mother nature usually takes care of that.
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KDXGarage 10/9/2018 8:35am
10/9/2018 8:35am
MB19 wrote:
It looked completely different than it did this summer. With the rain, it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, maybe...
It looked completely different than it did this summer. With the rain, it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, maybe it didn't, I'm just curious why they brought in so much sand.
Look around. Some guy posted some MX Vice interviews with DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia. All three mentioned the track was different.

Keep giving the OP the much feared "thumb down of VitalMX". Smile
CoccoBill
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CoccoBill 10/9/2018 9:41am
10/9/2018 9:41am
It was indeed different in October after a couple days of rain than it was on July 7th unddr the sun, I'm pretty sure it will be even more different in January, maybe covered in snow...
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wfopete
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wfopete 10/9/2018 10:41am
10/9/2018 10:41am
I was in the Silver VIP tents and talking with a guy that has worked at Red Bud and the Richie's for 20+ years. He was quite familiar with the thinking behind the track. He said the track workers "Sealed" the track and until the bikes come out moisture would be a minimal issue. However, he said once the bikes break the seal and it rains, all bets are off. He also said that the Youthstream, FIM and the television coverage had more to do with the track and facility layout then anything. Red Bud and the Richie's were playing second fiddle.


Friday the track was perfect, Saturday and Sunday mornings were tough on the track but it survived far better than I expected it to. In my section the dozers could push off water and mud leaving a loam/sand base that developed into a great multi line corner. My hat's off to the track crews!
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MB19
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MB19 10/9/2018 3:45pm
10/9/2018 3:45pm
MB19 wrote:
It looked completely different than it did this summer. With the rain, it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, maybe...
It looked completely different than it did this summer. With the rain, it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, maybe it didn't, I'm just curious why they brought in so much sand.
KDXGarage wrote:
Look around. Some guy posted some MX Vice interviews with DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia. All three mentioned the track was different. Keep giving the OP the...
Look around. Some guy posted some MX Vice interviews with DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia. All three mentioned the track was different.

Keep giving the OP the much feared "thumb down of VitalMX". Smile
What's your point?
I apologize to the sensitive ones out there who are so proud of "real" sand tracks. I'm not saying it was lommel, it just appeared sandier than ever. From the bottom of my heart, I apologize for calling it a sand track. It will never happen again. There are way too many assholes in this world, more specially, on vital. The track was sandier than it was, I ask why and people light me up haha I could start a post saying I had a ton of fun watching the mxdn and people would tell me I'm an idiot. A little positivity goes a long ways, dickheads
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lestat
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lestat 10/9/2018 3:51pm
10/9/2018 3:51pm
“it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, ”

Sounds like excuse making to me ....
MB19
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MB19 10/9/2018 4:02pm
10/9/2018 4:02pm
lestat wrote:
“it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, ”

Sounds like excuse making to me ....
People hear what they wanna hear. If you wanna quote me, quote the whole statement-
"It basically replicated a European test track. Maybe it hurt the us team, maybe it didn't"
You conveniently skipped the "maybe it didn't."
As far as my true feelings go, I have no f%cking idea if they wouldve won, regardless of the sand and or rain content. If you wanna take what I'm saying as an excuse, fine, but it's not an excuse as to why the us didn't win but more of an excuse as to why they rode as poorly as they did. The Gp guys have a way more well rounded skill set and it showed at the mxdn.
TerryK
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TerryK 10/9/2018 4:49pm
10/9/2018 4:49pm
Damned right they made it more euro friendly. Its the FIM and the FIM cares little about the US.
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Beeby
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Beeby 10/9/2018 4:58pm
10/9/2018 4:58pm
So year after year we hear that the ‘euro tracks’ are unfair to the US riders and it would be a different story if the race were at say... Red bud. Now the US gets its wish and there is some sort of conspiracy talk that the track was changed to suit the European riders? Come on. The US riders just don’t ride in the same races as the GP riders so it gives a false sense of their speed. The GP boys are just faster at the current time.

It seemed like the US riders went backwards rather than any real progress forwards. So I don’t think starts would have made a great deal of difference
ama530
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ama530 10/9/2018 5:23pm
10/9/2018 5:23pm
It may not have been purposely built for the Euros but it seemed to suite them pretty well. They had perfect bike setups and were licking their chops when they saw the conditions. They practice in the deep sand and tracks that are brutal. Our guys ride on perfectly groomed tracks in SoCal and don't ride in sand and mud. When it rains, nobody shows up. The Euros are prepared to race in ALL conditions. Therefore, they waxed us. When was the last time anybody saw Coldenhoff win a GP? RedBud was like his back yard and he was smiling from ear to ear.
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zlowery 10/9/2018 5:27pm
10/9/2018 5:27pm
Sideways wrote:
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3...
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3 corners. other than that, no extra sand was brought in. It was the rain that did this to the track.
From riding it the past 6 year at vetfest every year, I agree with that observation. From 2012 to now, there has been more and more sand. But from the last 2 times I raced it, it only looked like MXON had a couple areas of fresh sand. The owners really have that down to a science. They are able to prep it and build the corners different to account rain/dry. I was really jealous of the conditions, those guys were putting some FAST/sweeping lines in. For vetfest, the lines get tons of braking bumps super early in the turns and deep in the apex's from riders coming to a stop then hammering it.

Great job to the redbud crew all around. With that amount of rain, extraordinary event!
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biscuit11
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biscuit11 10/9/2018 5:30pm
10/9/2018 5:30pm
Our guys apparently went with setups more based on what they knew over what they saw. Not a good idea...
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rocrac
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rocrac 10/9/2018 5:54pm
10/9/2018 5:54pm
After slopping around in the parking lots and pits for 4 days I have to say the track crew did an amazing job keeping that track in great race shape. Kudos to all including the American team for an epic event.
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KDXGarage
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KDXGarage 10/9/2018 7:06pm
10/9/2018 7:06pm
MB19 wrote:
It looked completely different than it did this summer. With the rain, it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, maybe...
It looked completely different than it did this summer. With the rain, it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, maybe it didn't, I'm just curious why they brought in so much sand.
KDXGarage wrote:
Look around. Some guy posted some MX Vice interviews with DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia. All three mentioned the track was different. Keep giving the OP the...
Look around. Some guy posted some MX Vice interviews with DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia. All three mentioned the track was different.

Keep giving the OP the much feared "thumb down of VitalMX". Smile
MB19 wrote:
What's your point? I apologize to the sensitive ones out there who are so proud of "real" sand tracks. I'm not saying it was lommel, it...
What's your point?
I apologize to the sensitive ones out there who are so proud of "real" sand tracks. I'm not saying it was lommel, it just appeared sandier than ever. From the bottom of my heart, I apologize for calling it a sand track. It will never happen again. There are way too many assholes in this world, more specially, on vital. The track was sandier than it was, I ask why and people light me up haha I could start a post saying I had a ton of fun watching the mxdn and people would tell me I'm an idiot. A little positivity goes a long ways, dickheads
I also wondered why there was so much sand.

I thought the sand helped the MXGP racers and hindered team USA.

Hearing DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia say what they said confirmed my thoughts.

I doubt anyone in his 30s would not recognize that. The degree to which it effected them may be argued, but hopefully not that it had zero effect.
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Sideways
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Sideways 10/9/2018 11:43pm
10/9/2018 11:43pm
KDXGarage wrote:
Look around. Some guy posted some MX Vice interviews with DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia. All three mentioned the track was different. Keep giving the OP the...
Look around. Some guy posted some MX Vice interviews with DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia. All three mentioned the track was different.

Keep giving the OP the much feared "thumb down of VitalMX". Smile
MB19 wrote:
What's your point? I apologize to the sensitive ones out there who are so proud of "real" sand tracks. I'm not saying it was lommel, it...
What's your point?
I apologize to the sensitive ones out there who are so proud of "real" sand tracks. I'm not saying it was lommel, it just appeared sandier than ever. From the bottom of my heart, I apologize for calling it a sand track. It will never happen again. There are way too many assholes in this world, more specially, on vital. The track was sandier than it was, I ask why and people light me up haha I could start a post saying I had a ton of fun watching the mxdn and people would tell me I'm an idiot. A little positivity goes a long ways, dickheads
KDXGarage wrote:
I also wondered why there was so much sand. I thought the sand helped the MXGP racers and hindered team USA. Hearing DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia...
I also wondered why there was so much sand.

I thought the sand helped the MXGP racers and hindered team USA.

Hearing DeCoster, Plessinger and Barcia say what they said confirmed my thoughts.

I doubt anyone in his 30s would not recognize that. The degree to which it effected them may be argued, but hopefully not that it had zero effect.
Do you read the thread? The track owner has said they only put new sand on the new start and in ONE corner. Otherwise no new sand was brought in! Riders saying the track was different compared to july, well of course it was! It was pouring down for 3 days!
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David934
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David934 10/10/2018 12:06am
10/10/2018 12:06am
pbody wrote:
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he...
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he struggled with forward traction. I saw a pic of him with a mud/sand tire on earlier in the day, not sure if practice or his second race. After walking the track, sand tire was a necessity.
KDXGarage wrote:
Tell me you're joking.
pbody wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/10/08/293309/s1200_20181007_173129.jpg[/img] I wish I was....taken after the third moto.


I wish I was....taken after the third moto.
No paddle tire???
David934
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David934 10/10/2018 12:21am
10/10/2018 12:21am
DrinkMoreWater wrote:
I heard also that the wind was blowing against the the American riders and the Euros had the wind blowing behind them giving an unfair advantage.

Laughing this is gold
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Muscle-Milk-KTM 10/10/2018 1:18am
10/10/2018 1:18am
That wasn't a sand track, yeah it was sandy in places but have a look at places like Lommel, Leirop, they are true whooped out sand tracks.
OT
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OT 10/10/2018 1:30am
10/10/2018 1:30am
Matthes said he spoke to the owners and the only places they added sand was the off camber, and the new section by the start / pit lane, no other sand was added.
GeorgiePorgie 10/10/2018 1:34am
10/10/2018 1:34am
Been adding sand for years on years on years. This isn’t a mxgp conspiracy.....but I’m sure most people bitching have never even raced at redbud. So there’s that. Quit bitching.
3
ga_pike
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ga_pike 10/10/2018 9:30am
10/10/2018 9:30am
Anyone else notice the one corner early in the track that was almost black colored dirt/sand. Several guys got out of the rack lines and their bikes just slowed to a crawl. Nasty for sure. Really had to stay in the groove there or you'd lose several bike lengths.
pbody
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pbody 10/11/2018 6:22am
10/11/2018 6:22am
KDXGarage wrote:
Tell me you're joking.
pbody wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/10/08/293309/s1200_20181007_173129.jpg[/img] I wish I was....taken after the third moto.


I wish I was....taken after the third moto.
David934 wrote:
No paddle tire???
So, after reading JT's "Breakdown" article on racerxonline.com where he talked about some questionable decision-making during the day, I asked him about JB running a standard knobby tire instead of a sand/mud tire in what I thought was the 3rd moto. Here is what JT said:
"He ran a full paddle tire in the final moto. The bike you saw with the standard tire was in moto 2 of 3... he made the switch for the final moto. He had 2 bikes and used one bike for each moto. I think he realized his mistake and switched for the last moto."
RichardLoots 10/11/2018 7:03am
10/11/2018 7:03am
interesting view and comments from Steve Matthes

It definitely was different from the traditional Redbud and Aaron Plessinger told me as much afterwards, but he lost and could be trying to explain his riding, so let's go to winner Dylan Ferrandis and, yup, he said the same thing. So, yeah, different track but guess what? The layout was ninety-five percent the same and Team USA wasn't on the pace from the first practice on. Guess what, the track's the same for everyone and guess what again? I talked to the track owner and he threw sand down on the new start section and a bit on the off-camber and that was it, so everything there was native to the track.


underlined part is interesting after reading all comments n here about how sandy and euro prepped the track was

Post a reply to: (Edit: apologies to the people I've offended by calling Redbud a sand track)Anyone know why Redbud became a sand(IER) track?